How about an overlay for ES? Is the ES playfield still in the works?

Forgive my ignorance, but how much of a monetary advantage does this route have over just sending your rough playfield to a restorer and have it touched up and cleared at the same time?

The overlay route seems like a lot of work and expense. I'm just trying to understand the benefit.

Well, for something like Flash Gordon you will not find a restorer that will take them on. They are too much work and the final cost would be prohibitive. CPR did FG playfields a few years ago. They are few and far between now and when you do find them you will need to part with $800 or so to get them. Then you factor in that as good as they are, you should probably look to have them clear coated to even them out. So you are looking at ~$500 overlay/clear, ~$1100 repro/clear, ~$? restro. It all depends on how much time you have and how much you want to spend.

The other slight wrinkle in the plan is that many of the top restoration shops will not clear an entire PF decal/mylar. I am not sure how people will deal with that.

this, ermbryon please!

^^^^^^ I want a Supersonic overlay as long as Classic Arcades isn't printing it. I hope they are not on the vendors list considering the trash he has shipped in the past. You guys will be shooting yourself in the foot if you use Jeff!!!!

Would also like a Space Shuttle!

M in for pool sharks!!

I hope some folks step up for this, though in the end it'd be close to the sake price as buying a repro, right?

Overlay $200
Clear coat $250 (low end, as clear specialists can charge $550)
Labor $150 (sand pf, level inserts, apply overlay)
Total $600 for an inferior result compared to a repro pf.

Don't get me wrong, the budget DIY person may prefer it, and if the choice is overlay or nothing we all prefer it. I'm hoping we have playfields and overlays from which to choose.

I agree.
Installing an overlay just sounds like WAY too much trouble for what you're buying. I don't see myself buying any of these, as long as CPR can continue making playfields.
My fear is that in the future, overlays will become the only option we'll have. I'm sure overlays are much more profitable for PPS in comparison to CPR making playfields. Everyone knows profit is what drives businesses.
I'm glad I'm in on 4 CPR playfields and don't plan on buying any more, unless CPR decides to re-run 8BD.

I agree with indy and btw. I would much rather do a playfield swap than an overlay.

I agree...that's a "no-brainer".

The work involved with overlays, to me, just doesn't make much sense. But then again, if that's all we have to choose from in the future, then we'll all be stuck with doing overlay decals.

The reason they are wanting to take it to this instead of a playfield is because if I wanted to do a restore, I get on PPS's website and tell them what I want, they do a one run print and mail it to me. With CPR they have to judge the market, preorders, etc.

I get it, but if I am bald and want hair, I'm going to get a hair transplant ... I will not wear a wig.

Sorry, this is the only analogy I could think of.

Rick: You might want to try & just get the art printed out & cut by experts. I have had my printer print to clear & cold laminate clear film on top. The customers still had to sand playfield bare, clear with varethane, mask to spray for white, varethane, install decal wet, & cut out lane switches.

I would think that you could find a printer to do white & color on film, cold laminate clear film for protection on top, & have a plotter/cutter cut out switch lanes, targets, holes, etc. It would drive the costs down & the customer would not need clearing over the overlay. Customer removes everything topside, sands playfield, & clears it before installing the overlay wet.

Just my thoughts, & the mylar or clear film over the art should protect the product. Ghost Busters rethemed Flash Gordon was done this way.

But sometimes it nice to throw a hat on

Personally I would prefer to have a clearcoat over any overlay I install. Maybe having a couple options wouldn't be a terrible idea.

What is the possibility of printing these on the back of the plastic playfield covers?

Not only would that eliminate the need for clearcoat, but also would not be a permanent modification to an old playfield.

Would love to see a tutorial showing how to do it? (with the whole process from start to clear coat done)

From what I understand, you are never supposed to clear over an overlay. It can start to lift the overlay over time. I believe Vid was the one who mentioned that in his playfield restoration thread.

Yes, this is the best idea and certainly worth $200.

Just print them on the back of thin plexi.

No sanding.

No leveling inserts (unless very proud).

No wrinkling under posts.

100% reversible.

No clearcoating under decal.

No clearcoating over decal.

Properly applied and allowed to cure before clearing and you shouldn't have any problems with lifting. I have never done an entire playfield overlay but have done areas of wear on a couple playfields( FT and SOF) and I cleared them both. FT has prob 300+ plays on it since and still looks great. Clearing over decals or overlays isn't limited to just pinball machines. Signs, cars, and hydro dipping(to name a few) also use this same method.

Count me in for alien poker

They make "one side frosted" of many plastics with different percentages of "frostiness" .

Probably the frosted side would be very bondable.

It seems that you rarely would have to remove everything topside, but you certainly don't have to mess with the underside like you would if you were sending it out for clearcoat.

This is a fantastic idea!
There are many people who just want a "decent" playfield, not a new one (money, time, effort, etc...), and an overlay in this way, it could be perfect for them. And for example, playfields like Centaur, Fathom... very hard to find, at least at a moderate price (if you have the luck to find them), it could be made "on demand" for this kind of persons. There will be always people who wants a perfect repro wood playfield, and they will buy them anyway, but there are many others who ever would buy a wooden one, but perhaps would pay $200-300 for a cheaper version "easy to fit".
Of course, I also love new playfields and I appreciate the job made by enterprises like CPR, but not many people have the time, money, etc, to make a complete restoration on every machine they owns, and an overlay in this way it could be enough for some machines.

Would much prefer an overlay to nothing, but I do my own cc so it's not much of an issue

Ditto - would love an AP overlay, but would love a CPR repro even more

You would want to print on the frosted side, so the ink would stick.

The ball rolls on the shiny side.

No, there is no distortion.

Frosted plastic is used in no glare picture frames (frosted side out).

The frosting prevents glare, but the pictures look totally normal.

People have been mentioning printing under side of plastic. Cost wise overlays with protection topside is probably the easiest & cheapest to produce & ship. But i'm no expert in mass producing stuff, so I'll park my horse in the stable.

Why not just print the overlay reversed on cheaper material and adhere it to the underside of the plastic?

I don't know that it's necessary to print directly on the plastic.

I also think the installation would be multiple times easier if people aren't left to install a 4 foot vinyl sheet themselves that has to be aligned almost perfectly, then clear coated.

With clear coat, people need to remove a lot more than with a plastic sheet overlay.

Ok.

Best of luck.

Solar Fire... Any luck on finding artwork for plastics + playfield?

This.

would rather just put the $200 towards another playfield than buy an overlay.

Or better yet offer something similar to Johns direct printing.

Some of you guys would be pissed off if your leg was on fire and I pissed on it to put it out.

Overlays can look stunning if done properly. I have a Strikes and Spares that was done by Dave in Los Angeles and it looks unreal. He scanned the old playfield, fixed up the artwork, had it printed out, installed it and put a pile of clear on the top. Now CPR has done new playfields for Strikes and Spares ... Would I swap it? No way. It wouldn't look any better than what Dave has done. Probably wouldn't look as good to be honest.

If you take the time to read Ricks first post, he says they will make overlays for games that new playfields aren't viable to make. CPR has stated they look for 100 preorders before making a new PF. So the overlays will potentially save 100s of less popular games that new playfields will NEVER be made for.

If you don't want to buy one ... Then dont. Pretty easy.

rd.

Then they'd moan that they weren't tasty enough.

rd.

It's been available from Phoenix Arcade for years.

http://www.phoenixarcade.com/images/babypacproof.jpg

Will the Mylar be silk screened? Or simply printed by some other process?

How thick will the Mylar be?

Will the Mylar be Die-cut to some pattern (holes/slots for lamps, switches, posts etc.) or will it be a full sheet?

I'm going to bet not silk-screened. Thus the difficulty in getting exact matches for brighter/flourescent colors. Silk screening is a batch process with many steps so again you are back to having to make a ton upfront. Inkjet printing allows for 1 offs to order.

Lord knows it... I'm kinda hungry right now... I'm gonna go out for a case of Sweet Baby Ray's after I knock up my girlfriend....

baby-back-ribs.png

Some of us are just trying to give some input or advice Rick. Most of us have learned a few things from you, usually good. Same as others have learned from others, & many of us had made our fair share of mistakes.

Your an expert printing stuff, but maybe you should keep a open mind. Maybe there is a better way of doing overlays than what is talked about here, or maybe listening to those that have done them in the past. Learn from what good & bad things were done. Like I have said I have no horse in this race, & I have had quality overlays printed. Another custom Flash Gordon conversion is being done, overlay provided by me. Also I'm 50 years old & played many Bally pins 1978 - 1982 that were mylared or not. Thought both ways played fine, but the ones still looking good today had mylar installed. I have had a few Bally pins with the plastic wood playfield, still look almost factory fresh after 30+ years.