Bristow, VA
WMS is getting the licensing cash, Stern is assembling, CGC is engineering, JJP is selling it, and PPS is pulling it all together. Is there anyone left in the business NOT making a buck off of MMR? 
(Topic ID: 90903)
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Medieval Madness
Williams, 1997
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Quoted from mechslave:It's because I've had (and continue to find) assembly and manufacturing problems with Sterns, and I've been unboxing them for many years. My point was simply that I doubted many of the people pre-ordering MMR's all those months ago envisioned Stern building them. It's actually just more of a statement. I think pre-orderers liked the idea of a new company, new machines, new manufacturing process... maybe even slower with a little more care involved.
But yes, I do understand completely. I can see through Pinside opinions like Invisiglass. I'm getting Thumbs Down from people who have MMR's on order. That's Pinside. Owners protect their investments with their opinions and Thumb-Ups and Thumb-Downs, desperately hoping reality won't factor in.
pretty cool that you claim to speak for MMR buyers, and then in the next sentence whine that all the thumbs down you're getting are from MMR buyers.
since you seem so full of disdain for this project, the people who are excited about it, and pinside itself, what is it exactly you're doing here?
Quoted from Pinballmike217:Is there a limit to the number of MM's that can be built? If I'm not mistaken the run was set at 1000? Now that production isn't a problem can another run be scheduled if there is enough demand?
MMRLE is limited to 1000. after that, "Standard" models will be produced until demand is met.
Quoted from mechslave:Ok, so you obviously assumed that Stern would be building them when you pre-ordered?
your point wasn't that nobody expected it, it was that people were mad about it, which doesn't seem to be the case. so far, the only person that seems upset that Stern is assembling MMR is you.
Quoted from Cobray:This is pretty interesting to me, only because I really thought that the remakes were taking money away from the limited amount of funds available by customers to buy NIB pinball machines, and in fact are direct competition to Stern. Sure Stern is profiting short term from this, but the $8K people are plunking down is $8K not being spent on a Stern machine (or even forcing someone to sell their beloved Stern LE that they thought was going to hold it's value but instead they lost $2K because of the remakes hitting the market, hence leaving a bad taste in their mouth and not buying another $8K NIB Stern LE).
I'm not arguing that remakes are good or bad, but there's not doubt remakes have effected the pinball market pretty substantially... and now stern is the one helping to pump them out.
I also recall that Stern was pretty aggressive against JJP when he was trying to get off the ground, which is another reason I'm surprised.
I own a lot of older machines and some Sterns nor do I plan to buy anything NIB in a long time so I have no dog in this fight..
i don't think there's any good reason to lament the industry over this. a shrewd entrepreneur is meeting a legitimate demand in the marketplace. this is how it's supposed to work. the fact that Stern has found a way to be a part of that is good news for them, and simultaneously good news for customers of this product in my opinion.
Quoted from ChadKeller:This is good news. Now, if Rick could just announce what else he is going to build so the pinball market can move forward again that would be great. I see so many people not buying games because they are sitting on the fence on every "A" title or rare title because they think it's going to get remade.
there is much more to pinball than the 4 or 5 titles considered candidates to be remade by PPS.
I can only speak for myself, not all pinball enthusiasts like rommy can. To me, rareness is certainly interesting but not a reason to spend money. When I plunk down dollars in this hobby it's to play pinball. My game room is neither an investment strategy nor a museum. I was in on MMR in order to own and play a NiB Medieval Madness.
Assembly being on such a solid footing eliminates what was to me the biggest risk factor associated with this product!
Quoted from Concretehardt:In most cases the clone/repo of the original ends up being worth less, this is true with most items Cars, Guns, ect
Will it hold true for pinball?? time will tell...
PS.Talking apples to apples here... not comparing a clapped out routed MM to a new MMr...
Comparing a nice example of an original MM vs MMr
well, I don't really think the car analogy is apt here, for a bunch of reasons. For one thing, car technology progressed by leaps and bounds from say the classic era of the 50s through today. safety, performance, features, capabilities, reliability all improved tremendously. a classic car is far, far inferior in all measurable *practical* ways to a nice modern car.
But in MM's case, the degree of change in pinball machines from 1997 to now is really pretty minor.
then there's the fact that MMR is packed with features that make it in many ways superior to the original: full color LCD screen, triple-redundant LEDs with adjustable brightness and fade, software-integrated shaker, uncompressed audio, etc.
and on top of that, I honestly feel like MMR represents a big step forward technologically. the beaglebone black based platform they have developed allows unprecedented control and customization potential via software alone.
MMR may not end up being a highly coveted collectors item, but it will be a very fun and very cool pinball machine that people will want to own.
Quoted from Whysnow:Is this true? Would be cool to have JJP step in and help SkitB, but I have to think that their fees to do so would be too much given the current agreed price point.
this kinda seems like offering to help a homeless person by selling them a house that's on fire.
Quoted from calvin12:so a car analogy is not apt- because cars have changed a lot and pinball hasn't, except that MMR is way more advanced than MM. did you get off your schizophrenia drugs?
the gameplay and look/feel improvements are relatively minor, but the underlying tech is a lot better. it's not really a difficult concept.
Quoted from Concretehardt:"but the underlying tech is a lot better"
I think you meant to say IF the underlying tech is alot better? I think we have all seen what "better tech" did for WOZ with the Board issues that it has been plagued with. MMr's new Tech may turn out to be way better than the original MM but lets be real it is WAY to early to proclaim that yet.
Lets revisit this topic in 1 year, 5 years...20 years
Wish PPS the best of luck as I am wanting CCr & MBr
Disclaimer: Yes I do own an original MM (this is my 5th MM in the last 12 years) so I am going to steal your gotcha moment
nah, you're making reasoned statements and not accusing me of mental illness.
Quoted from ChadKeller:This goes well beyond 4-5 titles. Maybe you could explain to me how much more there is to a high end restoration business then when 90% of your business is in those "A" titles? Take a look at what high end "B" titles fetch. Sure, there is much more if you like to lose money. From a players perspective I agree with your statement. To someone in the high end restore business your statement is clueless.
i mean if you are worried about the state of your business i can't help you. no line of income is guaranteed in perpetuity. that's capitalism. pinball in general seems to be a growing hobby with a lot of exciting stuff on the horizon. someone moved your cheese, but that doesn't mean pinball itself is in trouble.
Quoted from vex:mustang le might just be the canary in the coal mine...
you may be right about future games moving downward in price, but i don't think broader trends can be gleaned from that particular game. it was a theme with very narrow appeal and very little promotion or hype that i saw.
Quoted from calvin12:comics/ superheroes are a male dominated market, just like mustangs. Liking comics/ superheroes is very different than spending 1000's of dollars to put one on location or in your house too.
i think you'd be better off conceding the point. it's pretty obvious that a mustang pin has a much narrower appeal than mainstream comics / movie franchises.
no, he's right. i know the older dudebros here probably think it's all "zit-ridden boys in their parents basements" or whatever but that's as outdated an outlook as saying "only nerds use the internet".
200,000 people attended comicon last year and The Avengers grossed over $600 million at the box office. Mustang is peanuts by comparison.
Quoted from MinusWorlds:Compare apples to apples. All things being equal an MM will be worth more than an MMr to just about everyone. How is that even a question?
I don't see why. MMR seems like the better game, if the new system lives up to its promise.
Quoted from viper001:There is an assumption on the part of the supporters/investors in this project that the game will automatically be as functional/dependable/playable as the outdated model that it is based on. And built on that they will also be getting your aforementioned lists of upgrades and enhancements.
But, just in the off chance that the new games exhibit some flaw that wasn't seen in the WMS version, I think it's premature to declare the remakes either better (or worse) than the original game. I could rattle off my own list of technical concerns on the remakes but I know I would get my hand slapped for doing so. Until the games get into owners hands (or at least games make it to a show and are plugged into a good wall outlet) it's way early to make any assumptions on their awesomeness...
Totally fair. MMR isn't out yet. Assuming it is as reliable as and plays as well as the original (huge assumptions, yes!) I don't see any reason for the original to be worth more, given the added features of the new version.
Quoted from MinusWorlds:Seriously?
This argument has been beaten to death. If it's apples to apples it can't be a better game.
Well, I'm kind of confused on what you consider apples to apples here. Are you talking about a high-end restoration full of reproduction parts, or some mythical non-existent mint condition original game that fell through a time tunnel from 1997? Either way it doesn't matter ... "Better game" would still go to MMR due to better sound and lighting. But I think you're talking desirability, which I guess would depend on the person. It seems kinda like apples to oranges no matter how you slice it to me.
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