(Topic ID: 90903)

ANN: MMR assembly to be done by Stern Pinball for PPS/Chicago Gaming!


By PPS

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Bigboythursday
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There are 539 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 11.
#101 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Am I the only one that thinks JPP should sign a similar agreement?! since they are still trying to fill the preorders of WOZ this many years later?

I heard that!! Agreed

-6
#102 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

You are getting thumbs down because what you said was dumb, not because it was negative toward the project. You seem to feel that "built by Stern" is a bad thing, but don't say exactly why.
Tell me, why is it bad that it's being built by Stern? Is it because every NIB game they ship isn't 100% perfect? Is it because they don't stand by their products? What?
Stern is doing nothing but putting it together. Maybe you have issues with the quality of Sterns parts, or art, or cabs etc, but none of that matters here.

It's because I've had (and continue to find) assembly and manufacturing problems with Sterns, and I've been unboxing them for many years. My point was simply that I doubted many of the people pre-ordering MMR's all those months ago envisioned Stern building them. It's actually just more of a statement. I think pre-orderers liked the idea of a new company, new machines, new manufacturing process... maybe even slower with a little more care involved.

But yes, I do understand completely. I can see through Pinside opinions like Invisiglass. I'm getting Thumbs Down from people who have MMR's on order. That's Pinside. Owners protect their investments with their opinions and Thumb-Ups and Thumb-Downs, desperately hoping reality won't factor in.

The reality is that owners of original MM's are having a GREAT day and are walking around with a little more of a hop in their step!

#103 5 years ago

Very exciting news. I think this is a win for everyone involved. Hope you gents get your MMRs in good time.

Cheers to you.

#104 5 years ago

Zitt,
Won't help because JJP said it's waiting for parts and not about production capabilities .
JJP factory or Sterns it still can't move without the pieces

#105 5 years ago

Hey, if it makes you feel better to think that MMR buyers are sad and all original MM buyers are happier today than more power to you. As long as your happy, that's great.

That seems a lot more important to you than actual facts. I'm sorry you've had "(and continue to find) assembly and manufacturing problems with Sterns, and I've been unboxing them for many years." Whatever that means, I'm not sure. Stern can't be THAT bad, you keep buying them

Next time, when you shit on a thread, at least have some facts or personal experience or something. Stern sucks, booooooo. But don't tell us why or anything, just threadcrap.

Quoted from mechslave:

It's because I've had (and continue to find) assembly and manufacturing problems with Sterns, and I've been unboxing them for many years. My point was simply that I doubted many of the people pre-ordering MMR's all those months ago envisioned Stern building them. It's actually just more of a statement. I think pre-orderers liked the idea of a new company, new machines, new manufacturing process... maybe even slower with a little more care involved.

But yes, I do understand completely. I can see through Pinside opinions like Invisiglass. I'm getting Thumbs Down from people who have MMR's on order. That's Pinside. Owners protect their investments with their opinions and Thumb-Ups and Thumb-Downs, desperately hoping reality won't factor in.

The reality is that owners of original MM's are having a GREAT day and are walking around with a little more of a hop in their step!

#106 5 years ago

I bet people are scrambling for the rest of the 7k now (LE)

Probably thought it was gonna drag out for a while.

#107 5 years ago

I'm one of those people still waiting for my WOZ that I ordered 2yrs ago, at this point I will say I'm more excited for my MMR and I will probably receive it before my WOZ. Let's all admit that that's a joke but most Likely true.

#108 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

I'm getting Thumbs Down from people who have MMR's on order. That's Pinside. Owners protect their investments with their opinions and Thumb-Ups and Thumb-Downs, desperately hoping reality won't factor in.

I don't have MMr on order, and don't plan to ever do so, I just thumbs downed you because your post was dumb and FUDish. But keep pretending you were being really wise and it's just petty jealousy keeping people from seeing your wisdom.

Tell me, who would have been better to build it than Stern? Since you think it's a bad move explain the better one.

#109 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

It's because I've had (and continue to find) assembly and manufacturing problems with Sterns, and I've been unboxing them for many years. My point was simply that I doubted many of the people pre-ordering MMR's all those months ago envisioned Stern building them. It's actually just more of a statement. I think pre-orderers liked the idea of a new company, new machines, new manufacturing process... maybe even slower with a little more care involved.

But yes, I do understand completely. I can see through Pinside opinions like Invisiglass. I'm getting Thumbs Down from people who have MMR's on order. That's Pinside. Owners protect their investments with their opinions and Thumb-Ups and Thumb-Downs, desperately hoping reality won't factor in.

pretty cool that you claim to speak for MMR buyers, and then in the next sentence whine that all the thumbs down you're getting are from MMR buyers.

since you seem so full of disdain for this project, the people who are excited about it, and pinside itself, what is it exactly you're doing here?

#110 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

The reality is that owners of original MM's are having a GREAT day and are walking around with a little more of a hop in their step!

They may be hopping now. Only time will tell if they should have been.

Seems like a win-win to me, but as usual there will be unsupported arguments on both sides now and in the future.

-1
#111 5 years ago

I heared rumors that SPI is going to reduce the game code little bit. So the first version won't have a final and some minor issues. So SPI should have some room to improve the code in several versions over the next 3 years

Might happen that STERN logo will be on the speaker panel

Post edited by the_one

Post edited by the_one

-1
#112 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Hey, if it makes you feel better to think that MMR buyers are sad and all original MM buyers are happier today than more power to you. As long as your happy, that's great.
That seems a lot more important to you than actual facts. I'm sorry you've had "(and continue to find) assembly and manufacturing problems with Sterns, and I've been unboxing them for many years." Whatever that means, I'm not sure. Stern can't be THAT bad, you keep buying them
Next time, when you shit on a thread, at least have some facts or personal experience or something. Stern sucks, booooooo. But don't tell us why or anything, just threadcrap.

Ugh! Really? I should go through and list every assembly and QC problem I've ever had with Stern machines? This is the place for that, you think?

Obviously they tried to avoid using Stern, but had no other feasible choice at the moment. That's fine, but like I said, I don't think most people who pre-ordered their MMR's hoped they'd be built by Stern, regardless of what they're saying now.

Originally, everyone sort of thought MMR's would be assembled slowly by a small group in a new large warehouse, a new way of manufacturing, maybe a little more care involved, since it was a new pinball company after all. Premium manufacturing on a small scale. I found that idea exciting, actually. Something about Stern building Medieval Madness just seems wrong, but like I said in my first post: more pinball machines being built is always good, and I hope everyone who pays for one gets exactly what they want and are overjoyed!

#113 5 years ago
Quoted from SealClubber:

The only downside to this is they might produce MB sooner and I don't have money for that right now.

I was thinking the same thing!

#114 5 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

pretty cool that you claim to speak for MMR buyers, and then in the next sentence whine that all the thumbs down you're getting are from MMR buyers.

Original pre-orderers are not necessarily the pre-orderers now. That was sort of the whole point of the statement, actually. LOL

#115 5 years ago

No, not every. How about just your top 3. Top three worst things Stern has done build quality wise and why this is a horrible idea. Seriously, I want to know.

Quoted from mechslave:

Ugh! Really? I should go through and list every assembly and QC problem I've ever had with Stern machines? This is the place for that, you think?

Obviously they tried to avoid using Stern, but had no other feasible choice at the moment. That's fine, but like I said, I don't think most people who pre-ordered their MMR's hoped they'd be built by Stern, regardless of what they're saying now.

Originally, everyone sort of thought MMR's would be assembled slowly by a small group in a new large warehouse, a new way of manufacturing, maybe a little more care involved, since it was a new pinball company after all. Premium manufacturing on a small scale. I found that idea exciting, actually. Something about Stern building Medieval Madness just seems wrong, but like I said in my first post: more pinball machines being built is always good, and I hope everyone who pays for one gets exactly what they want and are overjoyed!

#116 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

Original pre-orderers are not necessarily the pre-orderers now. That was sort of the whole point of the statement, actually. LOL

i am. it's kind of annoying to be told what i supposedly really think.

#117 5 years ago

Is there a limit to the number of MM's that can be built? If I'm not mistaken the run was set at 1000? Now that production isn't a problem can another run be scheduled if there is enough demand?

#118 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I don't have MMr on order, and don't plan to ever do so, I just thumbs downed you because your post was dumb and FUDish. But keep pretending you were being really wise and it's just petty jealousy keeping people from seeing your wisdom.
Tell me, who would have been better to build it than Stern? Since you think it's a bad move explain the better one.

What are you even talking about? LOL It was an observation!!

So basically, since you're saying it was so "dumb and FUDish" an opinion, that all the original pre-orders from Expo not only hoped that Stern would be building MMR but that they fully expected Stern to build them? Funny, because I don't remember anyone hoping for that or even thinking it was a viable option back then!!

#119 5 years ago

I'm sure it will raise the profit. Thats always the decission maker #1.
But it's fair enough, business is hard on that market!

#120 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinballmike217:

Is there a limit to the number of MM's that can be built? If I'm not mistaken the run was set at 1000? Now that production isn't a problem can another run be scheduled if there is enough demand?

Pretty sure they can pump them out for as long as they have the license and demand.

#121 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinballmike217:

Is there a limit to the number of MM's that can be built? If I'm not mistaken the run was set at 1000? Now that production isn't a problem can another run be scheduled if there is enough demand?

MMRLE is limited to 1000. after that, "Standard" models will be produced until demand is met.

#122 5 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

i am. it's kind of annoying to be told what i supposedly really think.

Ok, so you obviously assumed that Stern would be building them when you pre-ordered?

#123 5 years ago

During the Chicago Expo, there could be MM on the assembly line. How cool would that be to go on the Stern tour and see that. Might have to go on a road trip!

#124 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

Ok, so you obviously assumed that Stern would be building them when you pre-ordered?

Of course not, is that a real question

I don't believe everyone had hoped MMr's would be built by a boutique group in a small building somewhere handcrafted slowly and aged to perfection. In fact I think if asked, the vast majority would vote to have them built and delivered asap.

#125 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

No, not every. How about just your top 3. Top three worst things Stern has done build quality wise and why this is a horrible idea. Seriously, I want to know.

I've had probs with Stern games too...it's pinball, it happens....but from experience, I think most people's problems with Stern games are design derived, not usually the fault of the people assembling. PPS/CGC will be providing the already designed & created MM parts...most of which are the original WMS MM standard parts. We already know their fit and function is good. Stern's factory is merely assembling.

#126 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

Ok, so you obviously assumed that Stern would be building them when you pre-ordered?

your point wasn't that nobody expected it, it was that people were mad about it, which doesn't seem to be the case. so far, the only person that seems upset that Stern is assembling MMR is you.

#127 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

Originally, everyone sort of thought MMR's would be assembled slowly by a small group in a new large warehouse, a new way of manufacturing, maybe a little more care involved, since it was a new pinball company after all. Premium manufacturing on a small scale.

JJP called, they want their stupid way of building machines back.

#128 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

I don't think most people who pre-ordered their MMR's hoped they'd be built by Stern, regardless of what they're saying now.

Many people did consider it a possibility.

Dave Peterson last year said that Stern was going to start building pins for other companies.

#129 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

JJP called, they want their stupid way of building machines back.

lol

#130 5 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

your point wasn't that nobody expected it, it was that people were mad about it, which doesn't seem to be the case. so far, the only person that seems upset that Stern is assembling MMR is you.

Not upset at all, actually, and nowhere did I say I was. I just didn't jump for joy and call it EPIC!!! EPIC!!! So that essentially equates to pure and unadulterated hatred of Stern, right? LOL

#131 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Many people did consider it a possibility.
Dave Peterson last year said that Stern was going to start building pins for other companies.

Woah Nellie for one has been tossed around for a while, that's obviously not a "Stern pin".

#132 5 years ago

This is fantastic, now I have zero doubt I'll get my MMr during 2H/14. Thank you Rick and Gary!

#133 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

No, not every. How about just your top 3. Top three worst things Stern has done build quality wise and why this is a horrible idea. Seriously, I want to know.

I never said it was a horrible idea. Never. I don't see the point of going through and listing all the problems I've had with Stern's QC over the years, especially to someone who has a baited agenda and cannot read and comprehend all that well.

I only said something about it just seems 'wrong.' But even that I say tongue-in-cheek. Ironic would also apply. Epic would not, and that's just my opinion.

-2
#134 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Many people did consider it a possibility.

Actually, I think more people believed JJP would be building them than Stern. But again, most did not think this.

Quoted from Aurich:

JJP called, they want their stupid way of building machines back.

Slower does not equal stupid. The build of WOZ is all I have to go by, but it's a rock solid aircraft-quality build compared to some Stern stuff I've received. Just as a fast build does not equal great, my XM LE could attest to that (wherever it is!).

#135 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

Not upset at all, actually, and nowhere did I say I was. I just didn't jump for joy and call it EPIC!!! EPIC!!! So that essentially equates to pure and unadulterated hatred of Stern, right? LOL

I totally think it's an EPIC announcement! It means I get my MMR faster then I thought I would and will be battling trolls and defeating castles while my summer break is still on . And now that Rick confirmed CGC will be handling the QC, not Stern, it is even more EPIC!

-2
#136 5 years ago
Quoted from Don1:

I don't believe everyone had hoped MMr's would be built by a boutique group in a small building somewhere handcrafted slowly and aged to perfection.

LOL I wanted my playfield cured and aged in oak barrels in the mountains of Tennessee!

But yes, actually. Stern is all about getting the product out as quick as possible, ready or not, problems or not, software or not, QC or not, get them out and sell them! That's just their reputation. I do understand not all of those will apply because the parts, design and software are done. But instead of "EPIC!!!" my reaction is more like a shoulder shrug "Guess that's really the only option." And obviously it is, right now.

#137 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

Stern is all about getting the product out as quick as possible, ready or not, problems or not, software or not, QC or not, get them out and sell them!

So, basically, a lot like any pinball manufacturing company ever?

#138 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

Just as a fast build does not equal great, my XM LE could attest to that (wherever it is!).

That's due to design/engineering problems...not the fault of the people assembling. We already know that MM is designed well.

#139 5 years ago

Meh. Offtopic:

The issue I have with JJP is the following:

The benefit to taking PreOrders for any game is to PreOrder material for said games prior to building them.
So; lets say they PreOrdered 1000 LEs and 1000 standard WOZ.

Once they took final payment on the preorders; they should have ordered 2000 parts to build 2000 machines. This is where preorders make financial sense. You order 2000 CPU boards because it's cheaper to build/assemble PCBs in volume.

If I were running their MFG line; I would have ordered enough volume of Cabinets, decals, wiring harnesses to keep my production line running.

This BS about them NOT having control over their suppliers concerns me greatly. It reads suspiciously like JJP is "out of money" and is ordering handfuls of parts simply to keep the finances in line. IE a Cash Accural method of accounting. IE using hobbit pre-orders to fund WOZ builds they already spent on R&D. This just seems STUPID to me.

Until JJP can demonstrate *REAL* manufacturing capability in order to keep games shipping on time means they will *NEVER* get my money.

To put this rant back on topic... It seems that Rick @ PPS has learned from that behavior and is attempting to approach the MMr project in the correct way. IE Getting an experienced subcontractor (Stern) to do the MFG line assembly for them. Hopefully that means PPS is priming their line with sufficient qtys of sub assemblies to make the shipment's on time and with some degree of quality. IF this translate to a great experience by the MMR pre-orders... then PPS has a good chance of earning my support and $$$ on some future project... :Cough: AFM :Cough:

#140 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

But yes, I do understand completely. I can see through Pinside opinions like Invisiglass. I'm getting Thumbs Down from people who have MMR's on order. That's Pinside. Owners protect their investments with their opinions and Thumb-Ups and Thumb-Downs, desperately hoping reality won't factor in.
The reality is that owners of original MM's are having a GREAT day and are walking around with a little more of a hop in their step!

You don't know Pinside as well as you think you do. Do you really think that if MMR buyers disapproved of this that they would opine otherwise? Trust me. They wouldn't. Not to mention the fact that our deposits are still refundable. Anybody cashing out at this news? Crickets.

#141 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

Ok, so you obviously assumed that Stern would be building them when you pre-ordered?

I did not ,but that was my biggest fear. Now its alleviated so I am much happier!

And if JJp was building them I would be out. I would have a heart attack worrying about my money and when and if I would ever see my game.

#142 5 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

So PPS is licensing a game by WMS, which is manufactured/assembled by CGC and Stern and sold by JJP/Pinball Sales?
Rick is like Cyrus in the Warriors, combining all the gangs into one super power.. Can yoooooooouuuuuuuu diiiiiigggggggg ittttttttttttttttttt?

warrior5.jpg 10 KB

Is that George Gomez in that picture?

#143 5 years ago

I'm a little curious as to how this will affect the profit margin for PPS and the normal production schedule for Stern. Perhaps they won't need to release as many games per year giving them a little more development time.

#144 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

Actually, I think more people believed JJP would be building them than Stern.

What???

JJP can't get a single game's production finished from 3 years ago, and they are going to take on an even larger production run from another company?

#145 5 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I'm a little curious as to how this will affect the profit margin for PPS and the normal production schedule for Stern. Perhaps they won't need to release as many games per year giving them a little more development time.

Quoted from vid1900:

On the Stern tour, Gary said he can build 80 games a day (400 a week), so that sounds like 1/2 of production could be a Stern game and 1/2 could be MMr for any given week.

#146 5 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I'm a little curious as to how this will affect the profit margin for PPS and the normal production schedule for Stern. Perhaps they won't need to release as many games per year giving them a little more development time.

Proably better for PPS.
Not having to equip a manufacturing line or pay workers benefits directly. All they really have to do is source parts and manage deliveries. I'm guessing it will increase their already massive profit margin by a significant percentage.

Stern probably has some idle time at the moment given the way their games seem to ship in waves. I'm thinking for Stern this is Biz as usual... just means they can hire a handful of more people to help increase their throughput. I don't see Gary/Stern slowing their releases one bit... except to maybe convert to new architectures (read color lcd).

#147 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

I think the real winners may be the original MM owners, actually.
But yeah, this was sort of inevitable, I suppose. I don't mean to bust up the Love Fest, but did the people who pre-ordered MMR's all those months ago have "Built by Stern" in mind when they put down their money?
Anyway, more pinball machines built is good for everyone, so hopefully this all goes well and everyone is happy!

No they probably didn't have that in mind. I bet this came as a great surprise to almost all of them. A very good surprise.

Stern is a known quantity. Whoever else was going to put these together was a big unknown.

Personally speaking I would be much more likely to buy one now than I was before this announcement

11
#148 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

LOL I wanted my playfield cured and aged in oak barrels in the mountains of Tennessee!
But yes, actually. Stern is all about getting the product out as quick as possible, ready or not, problems or not, software or not, QC or not, get them out and sell them! That's just their reputation. I do understand not all of those will apply because the parts, design and software are done. But instead of "EPIC!!!" my reaction is more like a shoulder shrug "Guess that's really the only option." And obviously it is, right now.

No manufacturer wants a product with problems as that equals alot more $ to fix times alot more customers equals alot more angry customers = alot less people buying. Please ... perhaps think about what you say other than just to get a reaction will probably help ...

#149 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Proably better for PPS.
Not having to equip a manufacturing line or pay workers benefits directly. All they really have to do is source parts and manage deliveries. I'm guessing it will increase their already massive profit margin by a significant percentage.

Makes sense. From Rick's other posts I get the impression PPS is more about leveraging the Williams license than it is starting its own pinball factory.

#150 5 years ago
Quoted from mechslave:

It's because I've had (and continue to find) assembly and manufacturing problems with Sterns, and I've been unboxing them for many years. My point was simply that I doubted many of the people pre-ordering MMR's all those months ago envisioned Stern building them. It's actually just more of a statement. I think pre-orderers liked the idea of a new company, new machines, new manufacturing process... maybe even slower with a little more care involved.
But yes, I do understand completely. I can see through Pinside opinions like Invisiglass. I'm getting Thumbs Down from people who have MMR's on order. That's Pinside. Owners protect their investments with their opinions and Thumb-Ups and Thumb-Downs, desperately hoping reality won't factor in.
The reality is that owners of original MM's are having a GREAT day and are walking around with a little more of a hop in their step!

They can hop now because they have so much less MMS resell $ weighing them down.
>

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