I agree that it's in bad form to use less clear on a standard game that costs the same amount as the LE even though at this point we don't really know what the difference looks or plays like.

The standard version with less clear probably plays more like an original MM since WPC games aren't known to have super thick clear on them like restored games do. I actually prefer the way original playfields play vs. restored as a super thick/hard clear plays too fast and the ball seems to skip around too much. I'm also not sure that the extra clear is really necessary to protect a game that is in a home use environment, especially since everyone will likely install cliffys and other protectors on their game.

The cosmetic differences (shaker,trim, plaque) are enough to differentiate the two games. Once you start changing the way the two games play by making them faster or slower, I think you've gone too far.

I think they were curious as to where does this $1k go...and then what? I went to the pinball sales check out page for this - which looks like a 3 year old hacker developed it - and I took pause. It felt wrong to me to blindly give $1,000 to anyone with nothing more than a statement that I've ordered an MM. One would think they'd have drawn up all the sales/purchase boilerplate well in advance instead of making this a race/lottery to "enter" and then "make sure you send your check" within 7 days.

MM isn't even on the PPS homepage!! Where the f$&@ are you supposed to find out who the distributors are? Etc.

Just poorly orchestrated. Period. No crying. No tantrums. Just a straight cold analysis of how they look to the public in terms of their marketing and sales strategy.

And I for one think its wonderful that they're make these. Actually considered buying one at $8k. I'm out on buying a "standard" for $8k pre-sale. Doesn't mean I'm out forever.

Hopefully not another Ram Controls Star Wars cabinet debacle.

How do you have an le on a remake anyway?

If I polished a turd and spray paint it gold is it worth more, aka LE. Pinball needs new blood not old remakes.

Glad to see there are some that 'get it'!

I'm just confused how it cost 8 thousand, it's a remake their not hiring a design team or a team to program new software. It already done should cost less.

What do you think it should have cost? How do you justify the exact price you chose?

Not according to the past twenty four hours. You HAVE seen what happened, right?

And Teek...

You're still silly.

I'm going with cost of inflation and what Chicago coin is charging Rick to build each one.
Plus of course, profits for multiple parties involved.

It costs 8k because it can. The market proved that. Am I wrong? Should it? Maybe or maybe not. But they sure seem to be selling at that price.

Thank you, and what they've done to the whole LE thing is even sillier!

Cost is not the issue here. Heck, they should have charged more! Most you guys would have jumped anyway... The LE thing has become a joke and it must be funny as hell cause they will laugh all the way to the bank...

LE! LOL!

Agreed. We're all 'pinsilly'. Think I'm gonna copyright that.

Just change the title to MM unlimited.

Give us the full clear coat, and an option to add a shaker for an additional cost.

Problem solved.

I agree

Problem shifted, not solved. 'Why do I have to pay $200 more than the guy who gambled in a timely manner and got the LE for the same thing he got? WAH! WAH!

Next time live on the net like the winners here. Instead of working and being responsible or whatever.

My point is there will always be whiners and such. I indulge on occasion myself. It's fun.

This is a great idea ^^^^^^^^^

Excellent post, very thought out and articulate with valid points to back your opinion. Well said sir

This has nothing to do with how much it costs them to make.

It has to do with selling what the market will bear. If anything, they could have sold these for well more than $8k based on how fast they sold out the LE's.

I'm glad to hear they're making more. I wanted in on the LE, but was late to the party. Now I need to decide if I want to sell my very nice TSPP and some of my nicer vids in order to get a MM, or if I want to pursue a Scared Stiff- which was the direction I was planning to take a few days ago. And then there's Lebowski to consider.

What a crazy week for pinball...

exactly, and then what? I did not see a list of retailers selling this or anything, after I hear people went to 'Wicked Pinball' or something I've never heard of.

Poorly done, very haphazard to say the least. Could they have given us a weekends notice or something or have a system where the dealer you are ordering it from knows their numbers and can tell me on the phone if I'm on or not? Instead I get the old we'll call you next week to let you know. we are ordering in the dark on a Friday afternoon with no notice or anything and then this old screw the guy who is a day late aspect who wants to pay the price but maybe went to the wrong website since we never really knew where to look in the first place.

This has been an interesting thread. I'll add my uninformed opinions on a couple of the sub-topics that came up, since I'm sure everyone is chomping at the bit to hear from a newbie..

I think its great that the remake is really happening because it makes it feasible for me to own an MM someday if I decide I want to. I would have never been able to bring myself to spend 12-15k so I'm glad the prices will be kept in check by the new supply. Hopefully the competition for the current manufacturers will be a good thing too.

I think the whole LE thing is a little silly but I understand why it makes business sense since it gets people to commit to purchase early. I don't have any problem with the LE being the same price as the unlimited edition but I do think they should apply the same level of clear coat to all models. Even if its just perception it makes it sound like the standard is a lower quality machine without it. They could easily say that the numbered plaque, special trim, and shaker motor come free with the first thousand machines as a thank you for committing early with a deposit (which helps cover the fixed costs of production). I doubt many people would have a problem with that.

The discussion of whether $8k is a good deal or not doesn't really make sense though, since its always a value judgement about what utility the buyer is getting from the product versus the cost. Just because the seller is making a good profit doesn't mean its a bad deal for the buyer, nor does a seller taking a loss mean something is a good deal for a buyer. Ideally the sale is a good deal for both parties involved because they both end up with something they value more than what they gave up. Of course a deal can always be better for one party if the price shifts in their favor, but the deal is always "good" as long as they're getting out more than what they're putting in.

It seems like this whole LE thing comes down to semantics. They should have just called them the pre-order addition and the unlimited addition. Buy the pre-order addition and you get a little bonus for signing up early. Buy the unlimited addition and pay the same but lose a few features. So many people are getting hung up on this whole LE thing, which probably has as much to do with Stern as anything else. Stern charges more for their LE, but it doesn't really apply here since this is not an LE in the Stern sense.

Haven't read thread but who on earth would pay the same money for a standard with less features, knowing a 1000 LE's are out there for same price.

Never in a million years for me!

I love MM... I'm off to play a game, Trolls! Get'em!

Yup. Did you see Rommy, in another thread? Walked to the back of the room and paid Jack his down payment. But wait a minute! Rommy posted about his transaction on Pinside! No MM for you Rommy!

If PPS had done this like a truly professional business, they'd probably have set the stage for $20M in global pre-sale orders on Monday (tomorrow). With about 3000 very happy campers. I guess it kinda cute that pinball is still basically run like a carnival sideshow. This is just the hobby's latest reflection in the Fun House mirror that tells all.

So much to cry about...

Let's just shit can this whole MM remake idea and get back to the photoshopped, uninspired, unfinished games we are used to, that continue to climb in price for no good reason.

At least then we can all go back to the complaining that we are all comfortable with, like unfinished code and non-working mechanics.

How dare someone try and deliver on something that people have been begging for for years. And then, to make matters worse, they have the gall to sell out so quickly and then offer the opportunity for those that missed out to still get their hands on a game? What a bunch of thoughtless parasites....

That game is in his showroom for customers to play. Ask anyone who has picked up an order there in the last 6 months or went to the open house during CAX.

Intentionally lying to support your case is never a good idea. HTH

You are completely missing the point. Everyone is glad they are making MM...but just because they are making it doesn't mean they can't be criticized for the way they handled this. It was bush league...and a little concerning...because it suggests they might not really be in control of what they're trying to accomplish. They took a breakaway slam dunk and, instead, banged the ball on the back of the rim. Depending on how this "don't talk about your order" thing goes, they might just have brought down the backboard as well. Will the game resume? Yes...but what a mess.

So honestly, don't you think that's a little petty? How about the gold trim, shaker and plaque is your reward? You really want to have a selfish MINE attitude about something like clear coat? Come on dude. You didn't buy the thing because of its "LE" features. You bought it because it was a nib MM.

If they don't add the clear back to the standard editions, I wouldn't doubt if they don't sell as many. That would make the standard model more limited than the "limited". Do they really want that to be the case?

Doesn't change the fact. He pulled the classified ad after not being able to get someone to bite.

All he did was change the bait that he was using, now he's getting bites galore.

Rick is a businessman and nothing else. Let's not read too much into it.

If it were up to me, I'd make them all LE, except not have a plaque on the standard.

I much prefer one price for all. Kudos to skit b anx spooky for doing that.

Amen. Don't forget the paper-thin plastics and the all-around Made in China feel.

Put your ponpons down, if you think it was different then all about profit, your sadly mistaken

Great post!!

You didn't post any facts. That whole post was a lie.

Go ahead and keep hanging yourself. You're doing an excellent job.

This has been added to Planetary's Website.-

The Medieval Madness Standard will come with original trim, UPDATE! – now with DOUBLE HARD COAT (as is LE), and no shaker motor (game is shaker enabled)

Here are the facts:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wtb-big-bang-bar

Go ahead and keep hanging yourself. You're doing an excellent job.

What?! Are you kidding me?? Are you trying to convince me that a company is releasing a product to make money? Get outta here. Everyone know PPS is only doing it to put big happy smiles on everybody's shiny faces!

Where exactly does it say there that he sold the game for $25k, which you claimed in your earlier post?

It wasn't even stretching the truth. You flat out lied.

look they're almost done and ready to ship

as you can see, they built the Standard ones first.

medieval-madness-manu.jpg

No. Looks like another collector lied on RGP and misinformed the rest of us that it sold even after he opened it.

The fact that it was '$25K or start walking', still tells me that Rick is all about the dollar.

....as I stated in my earlier posts. This was the only point I was getting at.

Wow. So many complaints, threats, rants, whining, etc about the clear coat. Oh no! A NIB MM with only the normal amount of clear! How dare they! They have no soul!

It's not like the Standards will have no clear coat at all. So what if the manufacturer chose to put a little extra on the LEs. Doesn't Stern do the same thing with their LEs? If it matters to you that much, buy the LE, buy someone's LE spot, whatever.

You'd think the pin community would be ecstatic that MM is getting remade, and that everyone can get one, not just the 1000 early birds. Instead, more malcontents are coming out of the woodwork than I've ever seen.

Personally, I am rejoicing the remake of MM, and feel totally spoiled for having the chance to "go back in time" and buy a NIB MM. How many times have you thought to yourself "I wish I could go back in time and buy a NIB MM"? Now we can. Thank you Planetary Pinball!

If you read up a few posts, you may learn something.

This is a prime example of why there will be NO drop in the price of an original MM.

Mark my word, you will have people sending their MMR to HEP.

MM will *always* be a high dollar pin!

yes to certain point, however the older MM will notcommand those idiotic prices it once did thanks to the remakes!!!

A couple of ill-informed posts in this thread:

1) it is silly to claim that $8M is no longer going to Stern or JJP or whoever because of the LE orders. We have no way to know how many Stern or JJP orders were cancelled just to order an MMLE?

2) any one claiming this was a cf*ck or screw up clearly didn't watch the announcement. It was VERY clear to me Rick had no idea the response was going to be what it was. He even talked at length about what they had done to prevent pre-order disasters. Any talk about doing a standard edition was clearly a decision to be made next year, not within a few hours! I would bet $ that Rick didn't even contemplate they would be potentially oversold in less than a day.

3). Not sure why there is so much bashing of Jack and pinballsales.com. Whatever a web page might say, Jack has many many years in the business and has a terrific reputation. If you are going to get screwed by someone, it won't be Jack. Besides - that wasn't the only authorized distributors list.

Those were HEP prices.

Average price for a nice original is still $12K.

MMRs are $8K and will climb to $10K in one year thanks to flippers/hoarders and greedy distributors.

A small marginal difference of $2K is in no way idiotic.

remakes will not rise in price if they make a ton of them, thus 8k is 8k not 10 or 12K. Most folks would rather have
a new machine than a 12K machine. I know I would!! This is the best thing ever to happen to the hobby and I hope they remake several titles and cause some of the other overpriced machines to come back down to earth.

Thanks guys, I booked 6 MM-LE and now I´m going to sell it all of then for 2,500$ each one , easy money for me, thanks to Stern and people who love this hobby, who give me a lot of money also before to have the product at home , please Planetary Pinball next machine "CV"- LE jajajajaja. but only 50 units and 1 day later the STANDARD jajajaja
,and I´ll play again, come on be serious , Planetary Pinball need to produced another 1.000 LE. bye .