(Topic ID: 105290)

ANN: Joust reproduction playfield plastics (playfield discussion too!)

By j_m_

9 years ago


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  • 68 posts
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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by AD72
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There are 68 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 years ago

nov 05 2014 - I have 6 sets left. pm me for details
I will have 2 sets with me at the Chicago expo to sell. I will let anyone else interested in a set if someone backs out (or the sets that I'm taking to Chicago do not sell).

joust marquee (2).jpgjoust marquee (2).jpg

Williams JOUST Reproduction Playfield Plastic Set
Jim Smith and I are pleased to announce the availability of reproduction playfield plastics for your Williams Joust head-to-head pinball machine.

With only 402 machines originally produced in 1983, it's anyone's guess how many of these machines are still in operation over 30 years later so a choice was made to limit the production run to a total of 60 sets. This is one of the largest plastic sets found on any machine to date, and a single set occupies a whopping 1,500+ sq. inches of PETG plastic.

When re-creating the plastics for this machine, we took into account and addressed a few issues which were present on the original cross over pieces:
- corrected the red-blue color transitions (reversed them to match the colored arc on the playfield)
- increased the length of the bottom most post slot to allow the use of all 3 playfield hole positions (to open/close up the right outlane)
- extended the plastic near the pass through roll-over targets to cover up the partially exposed post
- and for what we perceived was a major design flaw, we have eliminated the 90° inside corner break point with a soft curve as well as strengthening the area by widening the section

Additionally, the plastic used in back in the early 1980's was slightly thinner than the PETG used today. The thicker material, in conjunction with the machines not running 8-12 hours a day in a home environment should help to eliminate the warping and/or bubbling that occurred (and which was especially noticeable on the large apron pieces near the displays).

BONUS PIECES IN THE SET
Puzzling together the layout for the pieces was a difficult task, given the size and shapes of some of the pieces (and material size restrictions for the CNC laser cutters).
Fortunately, we managed to maximize the layout and utilize nearly all of the "dead" space on the PETG sheets to net a yield of 3 sets per 4'x8' sheet. This helped reduce the material costs by 50% and offer the sets at what we think is a reasonable price for a boutique run.

"EXTRA" BONUS ITEMS
Even after including the bonus playfield pieces, we still had some extra space left. So, not only were we able to include an extra set all of all of the actual playfield plastics (parts no.'s: 519-1 thru 519-6), Jim and I decided to create and include 5 unique key fobs (which we hope you like

EACH SET CONTAINS THE FOLLOWING:
Cabinet pieces
(2) end cabinet marquees (part no. 31-1112-519)

(1) coin door marquee (part no. 31-1109-519-AP)

Playfield pieces
(1) Player One (P1) side apron (part no. 31-1109-519-AP)
(2) P1 left slings (part no. 519-2)
(2) P1 right outlanes (part no. 519-4)
(2) P1 cross overs (part no. 519-1)

(1) Player Two (P2) side apron (part no. 31-1109-519-AP)
(2) P2 left slings (part no. 519-3)
(2) P2 right outlanes (part no. 519-6)
(2) P2 cross overs (part no. 519-5)

Key fobs
(2) 'Joust' logo
(2) 'Joust' mini marquee
(2) circular 1P rider (great for the P1 side cabinet locks)
(2) circular 2P riders (great for those locks on the "other" side)
(2) lava hand

PRICING
The price per set of 27 pc. set is: 400.00usd plus shipping (add 3% to cover paypal fees)
Based to the size (and the required heating bending of the aprons), the sets will be shipped out in a rather large 26"x26"x6" boxes with structural cardboard supports inside.

Additionally, due to the limited number of sets available, I have imposed a strict limit of 2 sets per person.

pm me with your mailing information so that I can calculate shipping costs (once I have the plastics in-hand) and send you a total, along with my paypal account information.

ps
time permitting, I may be able to bring sets with me to the chicago pinball expo. if you are attending the show and wish have me deliver them, pm me and let me know.

[edit]
I'll post photos as soon as I have the product in-hand

#2 9 years ago

bump for the afternoon crowd

#3 9 years ago

and a bump for the evening crowd

#4 9 years ago

i'm in

#5 9 years ago

whoa! in less than 24 hours, we're down to just 10 sets left. thank you everyone for your support

if you miss out here, rick @ planetary pinball will have a few sets to sell

#6 9 years ago

i'll take the other 10 to decorate my arcade walls with

ps. we need a head-to-head emoticon for joust instead of just this one -->

#7 9 years ago

I will take one set, would like to pay cash and come by and pick up in a week and half. Scott who started the project can vouch for me, so please hold one set. Thanks Mike

#8 9 years ago

lapnip and I were discussing further ways to protect the plastics (and your investment here). jim smith and I really didn't see a need for the typical plastic protectors on the slings, out lanes or cross over pieces since we're including extras in each set.

we could have probably added a set of them instead of the extra set of screened pieces, but I still think that we made the right decision to include the 2nd set of screened product. after all, if someone wants to craft some slightly larger clear PETG protectors for the left sling, right out lane and cross over pieces, it would probably be pretty cheap to do.

as far as other protection goes, there are a couple of tips that I would suggest for the swapping / installation of the new pieces.

INSTALLATION TIPS and NOTES:
- The cabinet end marquee pieces appear to have been secured with both carriage bolts as well as a rather strong adhesive (at least they were on all 3 of the machines that I've owned). A hairdryer, putty knife and a degree of patience are needed here to carefully remove the original marquees from the cabinet.
After removing the 6 carriage bolts, use the putty knife and [carefully] wedge it between the routed section of the cabinet and an edge of the marquee (I did so near one of the corners).
Then, using a hairdryer (or heat gun on a LOW heat setting), slowly apply heat to help soften the adhesive so that you can separate the plastic from the cabinet. Once you have a corner "freed", slowly work the heat over the rest of the marquee to soften and release the adhesive as you go to remove it completely.

NOTE: Take your time!!! Rushing this process can result in stripping the wood from the cabinet!!

- If you are still running incandescent bulbs, I would recommend changing out the GI bulbs from the machine's original spec'ed #44's to the slightly less brighter, but cooler #47's (or switching to wide-angle LEDs and eliminate this issue altogether). At the very least., I would change out the ones under the aprons and behind the coin door piece.

There is a great write-up here that explains the difference between these 2 bulbs on marco's specialties website:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts-blog/44-vs-47-miniature-pinball-lamps/

- The edge of the metal ball guides (on both sides under the aprons) that diverts the balls into the trough has a sharp corner that can cut into the underside of the apron plastics and stripping the screened ink from them. at a bare minimum, sanding the corner down a bit or adding a small piece of adhesive-backed felt or something similar will protect the screened ink on the apron from being damaged.

finally, what do you guys (and gals) think about using nylon washers
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-8-Nylon-Washer-5-Piece-814748/204276103

or a few of those clear hole reinforcement circle stickers (back to back, adhesive side together) to form an ultra thin plastic washer for the 4 black anodized phillips screws that secure the apron to the ball guides? I know that my original aprons have some swirl marks and indentations where the screws were torqued down excessively.

http://www.amazon.com/Avery-Self-Adhesive-Reinforcement-Labels-Inches/dp/B001M4SD70/ref=pd_sim_sbs_op_2

#9 9 years ago

oct 11 2014 update
I received 1/3 of the shipment yesterday and CPR did a fantastic job. the plastics look truly beautiful.
the remainder of the order should arrive on wednesday, right before I leave for expo.

I'm now going to the long & slow process of heat bending the aprons (which takes about 20 mins. per set to perform which requires my undivided attention while they are heating so as not to damage them).

I will box up a complete set so that I can determine the shipping weight and associated costs and pm everyone that is on the list with their amount due.

due to the length of time that it takes to bend the aprons (then then box up the sets), I will be posting these out in waves. I will send tracking information as soon as your shipment is mailed out. (the sets will start shipping after I get back from expo).

to whet your appetite while you wait, here are a few pics of the finished product

IMG_4992.JPGIMG_4992.JPG

IMG_4972.JPGIMG_4972.JPG

IMG_4975.JPGIMG_4975.JPG

test fitting the first bent apron. it's a complete success!
IMG_4980.JPGIMG_4980.JPG

IMG_4984.JPGIMG_4984.JPG

#10 9 years ago

jackpot !!!

have fun at expo.

ps. if you take a set to display there, you may need to get a sneeze guard to put over them to keep all the drool off.

#11 9 years ago

oct 13 2014 update
I've sent pm's with the total costs due to everyone that I have on the list.

if you did not receive an email but thought that you were on my list (not scott ifkovits') contact me immediately

#12 9 years ago

I'm hoping to arrive at expo later tonight and will be there through saturday afternoon. I will have 3 sets (which have not been spoken for) available for purchase. I'll be wearing a red joust t-shirt on thursday or friday.

if you are attending expo, were not on the list and are interested in purchasing a set, send me a pm and I'll give you my cell no. so that we can meet up.

#13 9 years ago

have fun !!!

#14 9 years ago

back from expo now (actually returned home late saturday evening). I'm going to start bending the remaining 40 sets this week and will be shipping them out in batches based on the order that I received payment.

look for a pm with your tracking no. information by the end of this week or next (depending on your position in line).

I will be sending out follow-up pm's to those people that I haven't received payment from at the end of this week. if payment is still not received within another week after that, those sets will be released from hold and made available for purchase.

#15 9 years ago

no feedback from anyone who picked up a set from me at expo?

inquiring minds (well, maybe just myself) want to know if we missed the mark or delivered a descent product

#16 9 years ago

one final note on the aprons pieces

with the 3 machines that I've owned in the past (as well as jim smith's), we noticed that the position of the screw hole near the tip of the left edge of the aprons varied from machine to machine.

in discussing with mr. smith, I thought that it was best to position where the holes were on my current machine for a one major reason:
- moving the hole closer to the edge left less of that long thin section of the apron exposed where could be caught on accidentally (by clothing, etc...) when you were working on your machine, and resulting in snapping the tip of the plastic off

with that being stated, you [may] have to drill a new hole in the wood rails to accommodate the position of this hole. the good news being that the apron will completely cover up the old hole.

#17 9 years ago

Thought I was on the list. I will take a set if some come available.

#18 9 years ago

Got my package in the mail!
Looks gorgeous in person and JM was great to deal with.
Can't wait to dig in more when i get the chance.
Thanks JM!

#19 9 years ago

Still recovering from Expo! First it was great to meet you J.M. nice to hear the process on how you got these made and just talking to you in general.

I just wanted to say that I had been leaning toward not picking up a set, because mine are not that bad. Yes the crossover ones are broken, and 1 apron has a corner chipped off but it is pretty much hidden. I kind of like to keep my older games as original as possible. The only repro plastic set I have is on Defender, and the only reason I have them on is because they used my original set to scan and since I had them off I went ahead and put the repros on. After I saw these, I was hooked by their glossy awesomeness! Seriously, really liked the writing screened on the plastic, mine has the stickers, and they are a bit discolored and peeling. The colors look brighter than my originals also. I was just wanting to get the aprons, but since I got to see them, I'm glad I went with the whole set. I might not put them all on just the aprons...yeah right like that will happen! I take my Joust to shows, so it will be nice to have another set just in case!! (I need to figure out how to do that metal handle under the aprons, cause I know one of these days Hubby is gonna grab the apron to lift the PF and break one in half!! )

Phoebe

#20 9 years ago

I saw these in person at expo. Wow! They look great.

#21 9 years ago

oct 27 2014 update
sets for brundaged, marc, redryder, fuko, aberdeentp, darth-grader, silver_bullet and lmjdad were completed (heat bent) and boxed up over the weekend. they will post out tonight via ups ground.

those people should have received a confirmation email from ups (or will tonight when I deliver them to the depot). if you don't, please contact me.

I should be able to complete shipping later this week with orders for pinsane, bbble, blownfuse, annointed and lapnip.

I'm still waiting on payment from 4 more pinsiders before I can determine how many sets are still available and take care of those people on the waiting list.

#22 9 years ago

Thank you, J_M_! Fantastic work!

#23 9 years ago

when we get to year-end votes...

I vote this the #1 Pinball project of 2014 by far !!!!

#24 9 years ago

there's a year-end category for projects?

#26 9 years ago

#27 9 years ago

oct 29 2014 update
orders for pinsane, bbble, blownfuse, annointed and lapnip will ship tomorrow

orders for micro and dr_smith should ship on friday

once all shipped orders have been received (to confirm that there were no issues in transit), I will start contacting those people on the waiting list

note:
I also have what I'm going to call a "factory seconds" set where the design of the heat bending jig was changed mid-stream during the process. subsequently, the bend on each of the aprons in this one set is slightly different between the P1 and P2 sides (by about 1/8"). the set is available at a discounted price on a first come, first served basis.

pm me for details

#28 9 years ago

Joust plastic set arrived yesterday, I want to personally thank J_M_ , Dr Smith, CPR, and all parties involved in making this happen! The plastics are absolutely perfect with some nice editions as well. For me this goes down as project of the year! image.jpgimage.jpg

#29 9 years ago

#30 9 years ago

I think that lmjdad meant to thank jim smith (the CPR artist who did the fantastic job on all of the vector files for this project) in his post above

#31 9 years ago

Yes I did, my apologies. Thank you J_M_. Hey, I got the last name right.

#32 9 years ago

seeing as most of you have received your sets (or will receive them by wednesday of this week), I'm curious to know if my installation tips have helped out and how well the aprons are fitting.

also:
how many of you are having to drill an additional hole in the wood rails at the tip of the long thin [left side] section?

#33 9 years ago

nov 06 2014 update
all sets paid for have been shipped out and received (or will be received by EOB today)

1 week later
#34 9 years ago

nov 12 2014 update
if anyone in the uk, europe or the rest of the globe knows of any joust owners that do not frequent pinside needing a set of plastics, would you be kind enough to direct them here?

with all pre-orders being shipped and delivered (without any issues to the best of my knowledge), I am freeing up the sets that I had set aside in case of damaged or lost sets. this leaves me a total of 4 sets (plus the 1 set of factory seconds) left to sell.

after the remaining sets (along with the ones that PPS has) are gone, it's going to take a demand of a minimum of 40 sets to get another run produced.

1 week later
#35 9 years ago

Thanks to all involved. They look fantastic.

#36 9 years ago

Opened mine last night. Beautiful job guys! The art and colors are near perfect and the extras really make this a stellar project. My hats off to you. Thanks for all your hard work!

#37 9 years ago

Applied mine tonight, with much holding of breath on the apron pieces I might add. My old janky Joust pinball doesn't have the proper screws for the apron, and is completely missing the bracket that would hold the hole on the lower left (if you start at the hole on the thin piece, it's the third hole), for each side, strangely.

The holes on the apron that would screw horizontally into the playfield didn't seem to be aligned quite right for me, and after watching the 2P side apron shift a bit when raising and lowering the playfield, I opted to leave them out of both sides entirely. I left some "slack" on the screws to allow some play as I really didn't want to snap or crack anything out of the gate.

Opted not to remove the end marquees, they're in pretty good shape. Removed the piece over the coin door without issues, it needed replacement pretty badly - had some melted plastic and adhesive all over it.

While I was in there, I took the opportunity to replace rubbers, the blasted spinner art (the paint had blown off over the years before I owned it) and to replace the really, really bad repro stickers for the drop targets with the much truer Planetary Pinball-supplied repros. Cleaned up the playfield and tightened up a crazy flipper and am ready to joust once again!

The last photo shows the difference between the old repros and the new ones. The photo was taken prior to putting the rubbers/posts back on. You can probably figure out which is the newer repro

joust_4.jpgjoust_4.jpg
joust_3.jpgjoust_3.jpg
joust_2.jpgjoust_2.jpg

#38 9 years ago
Quoted from MadocOwain:

Applied mine tonight, with much holding of breath on the apron pieces I might add. My old janky Joust pinball doesn't have the proper screws for the apron, and is completely missing the bracket that would hold the hole on the lower left (if you start at the hole on the thin piece, it's the third hole), for each side, strangely.
The holes on the apron that would screw horizontally into the playfield didn't seem to be aligned quite right for me, and after watching the 2P side apron shift a bit when raising and lowering the playfield, I opted to leave them out of both sides entirely. I left some "slack" on the screws to allow some play as I really didn't want to snap or crack anything out of the gate.
Opted not to remove the end marquees, they're in pretty good shape. Removed the piece over the coin door without issues, it needed replacement pretty badly - had some melted plastic and adhesive all over it.
While I was in there, I took the opportunity to replace rubbers, the blasted spinner art (the paint had blown off over the years before I owned it) and to replace the really, really bad repro stickers for the drop targets with the much truer Planetary Pinball-supplied repros. Cleaned up the playfield and tightened up a crazy flipper and am ready to joust once again!
The last photo shows the difference between the old repros and the new ones. The photo was taken prior to putting the rubbers/posts back on. You can probably figure out which is the newer repro

looks amazing !!

#39 9 years ago

thank you for the comments (those that have replied)

MadocOwain:
what I found (from the 3 machines that I've owned), was that the apron pieces actually have 2 bends in them. one which is the 70° (the heat bend that I applied to all of them), as well as a sloping bend (that is forced) when installed (see side profile image below), that allows any "air balls" that leave the playfield, to roll back down back onto the playfield. [the 2 pcs. of square stock that rest in the grooves of the top edge of the cabinet, prevent any balls from rolling inside of the machine]

apron angle.jpgapron angle.jpg

additionally, these are the types of screws that I have for the 4 small holes near the top of the apron (surrounding the area where ball drains)
cross_recessed_type_i_round_washer_head_machine_screws_634593245268028828_1 (1).jpgcross_recessed_type_i_round_washer_head_machine_screws_634593245268028828_1 (1).jpg

and a pair of similar wood type screws for 2 holes at the back of the apron
10-512.jpg10-512.jpg

edit:
the threaded sections of the machine screws (4 each for the fronts of the aprons) are 3/8" long and the wood type screws are 1/2" long. both have a phillips head and the attached washer head and are black anodized. I believe that the wood screw is a #6 size.

if people are interested, I can take them to the local fastener store and see if I can do a bulk purchase.

1 week later
#40 9 years ago

dec 02 2014 update
2 sets remaining. factory seconds set gone.

4 weeks later
#41 9 years ago

Received my set last week, really impressive product, it's worth every penny.

Thanks.
Claude.

#42 9 years ago

dec 30 2014 update
all "available" sets have now been spoken for (pending a last sale).

thank you everyone for having faith in us getting it done and providing the pinball community with an item to help keep many joust machines looking like they should

a special thanks to scott ifkovitz and jim smith for getting the ball rolling (again), mr. smith [again] for poring countless hours of his personal time into this project to provide some really fantastic vector artwork (with tons of half-toning) and kevin and co. @ CPR for taking on the task (when others failed us and it was looking rather bleak).

3 weeks later
#43 9 years ago

image.jpgimage.jpg

#44 9 years ago

How about doing a limited 60 sets of Elecktra plastics? Since Stu has his own mint set I don't think CPR will ever do them!!

Quoted from j_m_:

dec 30 2014 update
all "available" sets have now been spoken for (pending a last sale).
thank you everyone for having faith in us getting it done and providing the pinball community with an item to help keep many joust machines looking like they should
a special thanks to scott ifkovitz and jim smith for getting the ball rolling (again), mr. smith [again] for poring countless hours of his personal time into this project to provide some really fantastic vector artwork (with tons of half-toning) and kevin and co. @ CPR for taking on the task (when others failed us and it was looking rather bleak).

#45 9 years ago

If PPS doesn't have the Original Films then "someone" will have to DRAW all that artwork & we can't sell enough to justify the time spent on the artwork.....

...and Why would you say that?????

Quoted from WIZ:

Since Stu has his own mint set I don't think CPR will ever do them!!

#46 9 years ago

Why would you suggest that PPS doesn't have the films, Rick has said that they might. Would be a mute point if they did, correct?

Quoted from Stu:

If PPS doesn't have the Original Films then "someone" will have to DRAW all that artwork & we can't sell enough to justify the time spent on the artwork.....
...and Why would you say that?????

#47 9 years ago
Quoted from labnip:

image.jpg 82 KB

LOL! I'd live with old cracked scratched up ones before I'd spend $650.00 for some "plastic".

#48 9 years ago

looks like the price went up a little

#49 9 years ago

I didn't suggest that PPS doesn't have films.
What I said was "If PPS doesn't have the Original Films", there is a Huge Difference.....
Geez, read man Read.....

Quoted from WIZ:

Why would you suggest that PPS doesn't have the films

WIZ: You didn't answer my question > Why would you say something like this?...Typically speaking this would be the first reason I would do them since I wouldn't have to search out mint source materials.....

Quoted from WIZ:

Since Stu has his own mint set I don't think CPR will ever do them!!

1 month later
#50 9 years ago

just a heads up that CPR has added the joust playfield to their reservation page. you have been informed

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