(Topic ID: 93104)

ANN: Illinois Pinball (IPB) / Cunningham assets Acquired

By PPS

9 years ago


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There are 731 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 15.
#151 9 years ago
Quoted from pinlynx:

Do you know that the licensing agreement is transferable? Have you seen Gene's contract with Paramount? This thread is nothing but speculation on things only Rick, Matt, Gene, and anyone else who has seen the contracts can know. Heck, maybe they'll make a hover pin with hologram Tupac.

I don't know who you are...but you are responsible for me spewing soda all over my monitor and other stuff. There could be a mode for each stage of his career. I would love the Tupac vs Biggie fight over trampy ho mode myself.

#153 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Exactly.
No smart businessman is going to leave money on the table.

You're assuming the estate of Julia is in it for business. From what i've heard, they don't want his likeness to be used anymore.

#154 9 years ago

Nice move, Mike.

#155 9 years ago
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:

Just like MM remake was just speculation. This constant talk about things wont happen is getting old. If there is money to be made its probably happening.

My point isn't that the TAF playfields won't get made, it's that, unless Gene had a transferable license, PPP hasn't acquired the rights to make them. So unless anyone has specific details about the transaction, all we know for sure is that PPP bought a bunch of games and parts that Gene had in storage.

Post edited by pinlynx: grammar

#156 9 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

I don't know who you are...but you are responsible for me spewing soda all over my monitor and other stuff. There could be a mode for each stage of his career. I would love the Tupac vs Biggie fight over trampy ho mode myself.

I take no responsibility for damage incurred due to any hologram related posts that I have made. But seriously... East Coast vs. West Coast LE editions... Put the game on hydraulics for Low Rider Multiball.

#157 9 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

You're assuming the estate of Julia is in it for business. From what i've heard, they don't want his likeness to be used anymore.

Is Julia's face anywhere on the actual playfield?

#158 9 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

You're assuming the estate of Julia is in it for business. From what i've heard, they don't want his likeness to be used anymore.

This is what my understanding is as well.

I know there would be an outcry here, but if the studio signed off (if it needed to), why not make parts with Julia omitted? Things like plastics, or maybe even the backglass. If you needed one, and there were zero left on the planet, why not?

#159 9 years ago

I would assume a transferable license involves two parties that will both continue to exist after said transfer. This was a buyout. IPB held the contract for the licensing rights to TAF. PPS bought all properties and holdings of IPB. Therefore, one can safely assume that since IPB will cease to exist once the buyout is complete, whatever they legally owned and held now belongs to PPS.

#160 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Is Julia's face anywhere on the actual playfield?

Nope. Just Christopher Lloyd as Fester between the flippers.

TAF-PF-0001.JPGTAF-PF-0001.JPG

11
#161 9 years ago

Thing is also depicted. Does anyone know if Thing is still alive and would give approval?

#162 9 years ago
Quoted from Miguel351:

I would assume a transferable license involves two parties that will both continue to exist after said transfer.

Assuming anything about the details of two different contracts (Gene's w\ the TAF licensor and PPP's w\ IPB) is a big leap. I'd venture that when Rick re-licenses WMS IP, I can't go buy that license from the licensee, even if I buy out their company. I'd have to go back to Rick for that.

It'd be great to see more TAF playfields in the market. But just because PPP bought out IPB's stock doesn't mean they also own the right to make more TAF goods. Would it be cool? Most definitely. Only Rick, Matt, Gene, the owners of the TAF IP, and perhaps hologram Tupac know for sure.

15
#163 9 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Thing is also depicted. Does anyone know if Thing is still alive and would give approval?

I asked him and he gave me the finger.

#164 9 years ago
Quoted from PinB:

Nope. Just Christopher Lloyd as Fester between the flippers.

And that in no way resembles Christopher Lloyd so it would be quite a stretch if Paramount or some other interested party tried proving otherwise.

#165 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Exactly.
No smart businessman is going to leave money on the table.

But the smartest know how much money is on the table and doesn't overproduce. MMr, MBr, CC(C)r, BBBr, AFMr, KP.... at an average of 8Kea and 1K runs, that's almost fifty million dollars. Add in Hobbit, JPOP, Heighway, Pred and other projects, and you may have close to 80M worth of proposed games.... and hey, isn't that Stern over there still cranking out machines right now?

Is there 80M on that table, are the legs buckling yet?

#166 9 years ago
Quoted from pinlynx:

I can't go buy that license from the licensee

Of course you can't, they're not the licensor, they're the licensee.

Let's be real, though. If Rick wasn't getting the rights to produce parts and/or whole remakes for Kingpin, BBB, TAF, and all the other licenses Gene held, what the hell good would it be to buy his company? Cat-piss and raccoon turd pinball machines don't sell well.

#167 9 years ago
Quoted from mac622:

And that in no way resembles Christopher Lloyd so it would be quite a stretch if Paramount or some other interested party tried proving otherwise.

Even if they need to get the rights to use Christopher Lloyd's likeness, that is possible and I bet it wouldn't cost too much. I worked with him on the BTTF video games, and he was awesome to work with.

#168 9 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

But the smartest know how much money is on the table and doesn't overproduce. MMr, MBr, CC(C)r, BBBr, AFMr, KP.... at an average of 8Kea and 1K runs, that's almost fifty million dollars. Add in Hobbit, JPOP, Heighway, Pred and other projects, and you may have close to 80M worth of proposed games.... and hey, isn't that Stern over there still cranking out machines right now?
Is there 80M on that table, are the legs buckling yet?

Not every person wants every game. More choices doesn't always equal direct competition. For example, whether BBB gets remade or not....I'm not buying a Jpop, JJP, Predator, or Stern in the foreseeable future. If BBB gets remade, I'm buyin'...cuz that's the particular game I want.

#169 9 years ago

Yea but are there a thousand buyers for BBB? For KP? For MB? You may have a few hundred here,for one game and another 500 there for another... Rick's going to learn market research pretty quickly, because I don't think he'll be able to run every title that's been discussed here in the last couple weeks Or maybe he can setup to do smaller runs at higher price points.

Still prefer to see new games. I like KP but am OK playing it at CAX if it means a whole new title would be created instead of a remake.

#170 9 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Thing is also depicted. Does anyone know if Thing is still alive and would give approval?

The Thing is magician Christopher Hart, and he is very much alive.

-2
#171 9 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Is there 80M on that table,

Probably. Not in one year but one remake a year and 1 stern I can do. Like Rarehero said we dont all have to buy the same game so another person may choose the Jpop and remake or JJP and Stern. But if spread out its reasonable.

I do worry when several titles hit all at once. This year with Hobbit,MMr,Predator, new Stern and who knows what else I could be missing, I fear it will get very tight around here. But again if MBr is a Spring release, taxes could free up new cash.

#172 9 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

I asked him and he gave me the finger.

Called his lawyer and got the same reaction.

imagesCARFYNCS.jpgimagesCARFYNCS.jpg
#173 9 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Yea but are there a thousand buyers for BBB?

It does not have to be 1000 buyers, does it?

What if there were 500 buyers?

That would be a nice amount too.

On top of the games, there will be people who want a playfield for display or backup, extra ramps, cab decals, translights, plastics........

#174 9 years ago
Quoted from Miguel351:

Of course you can't, they're not the licensor, they're the licensee.
Let's be real, though. If Rick wasn't getting the rights to produce parts and/or whole remakes for Kingpin, BBB, TAF, and all the other licenses Gene held, what the hell good would it be to buy his company? Cat-piss and raccoon turd pinball machines don't sell well.

th_UncleKevin.jpgth_UncleKevin.jpg

-1
#175 9 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Yea but are there a thousand buyers for BBB? For KP? For MB? You may have a few hundred here,for one game and another 500 there for another... Rick's going to learn market research pretty quickly, because I don't think he'll be able to run every title that's been discussed here in the last couple weeks Or maybe he can setup to do smaller runs at higher price points.
Still prefer to see new games. I like KP but am OK playing it at CAX if it means a whole new title would be created instead of a remake.

KP is for the birds, its ok I guess (but a lot of titles are just 'ok') , there are better games available to take up the space, New games is where we need to headed, more selection, more new features, more ideas. If remakes are necessary, at least give BBB an extra ramp or CC an led chrome train.

#176 9 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Yea but are there a thousand buyers for BBB? For KP? For MB? You may have a few hundred here,for one game and another 500 there for another... Rick's going to learn market research pretty quickly, because I don't think he'll be able to run every title that's been discussed here in the last couple weeks Or maybe he can setup to do smaller runs at higher price points.
Still prefer to see new games. I like KP but am OK playing it at CAX if it means a whole new title would be created instead of a remake.

New games and remakes can exist together. One doesn't disqualify the other. If anything, if remakes truly are a financial threat to new game makers....then it's great incentive for them to up their game, and that only benefits us as players/buyers. If MM & BBB are cooler games than new titles - perhaps we'll see cooler new titles than we would have otherwise.

#177 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The Thing is magician Christopher Hart, and he is very much alive.

Thing
Thing.jpgThing.jpg

The Thing
The Thing.jpgThe Thing.jpg

#178 9 years ago

A license is arguably not even required as these are replacement parts.

#179 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It does not have to be 1000 buyers, does it?
What if there were 500 buyers?
That would be a nice amount too.
On top of the games, there will be people who want a playfield for display or backup, extra ramps, cab decals, translights, plastics........

This is certainly true, but where does the price go at a qty of 500? I believe BBB will be more difficult to reproduce than MM due to the system differences and the fact that, unlike MM, most of its parts aren't already being reproduced. Is there a market for 500 BBBs at, say, 10Kea? Can he do 500 for 8Kea still?

#180 9 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Is there a market for 500 BBBs at, say, 10Kea? Can he do 500 for 8Kea still?

Yeah I just don't see more than a few hundred BBBs selling. At that level profit would go way down.

#181 9 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Yeah I just don't see more than a few hundred BBBs selling.

I can see selling more than 500 in a day....

#182 9 years ago

Cunningham assets Acquired

Hey. Be careful with my assets, bucko!
ritchiec.jpgritchiec.jpg

#183 9 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

This is certainly true, but where does the price go at a qty of 500? I believe BBB will be more difficult to reproduce than MM due to the system differences and the fact that, unlike MM, most of its parts aren't already being reproduced. Is there a market for 500 BBBs at, say, 10Kea? Can he do 500 for 8Kea still?

The new emulation system will already be in full production and be battle hardened from MMr and CCr.

Gene already reproduced most of the parts (except the boards - which are being replaced by the MMr boardset), so any molds and dies got bought up with the purchase of IPB.

Capcom flipper coils in BBB seem a little stronger than the usual Williams FL11629, so the adjustable flipper strength will come in handy from the new boardset.

Remember that Williams had purchased the rights to BBB back in the 90s to build it themselves, and Gene built it in 2006 with just a few other guys and no fancy assembly line - obviously nothing too difficult about it.

-1
#184 9 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Yeah I just don't see more than a few hundred BBBs selling. At that level profit would go way down.

Yeah, its just not a good remake candidate… without the rarity, collectibility and history (which you won't get in any remake) BBB is nothing more than a beautiful looking decent playing pin (at best).

BBB is a collectors pin and too many guys are blinded by its value only… No worries though, a BBB remake isn't happening anyway.

#185 9 years ago

Why wouldn't a BBBr happen, especially in light of recent events?

Actually I'm kind of down about this on the one hand, because it likely means no MBr in the immediate future... and others seem to want CCr before MBr too. Whatever. Guess I'll pour some dough into restoring my original MB and stop hoping.

The good side of this is that people like Greg will finally get the game they've been looking for.

#186 9 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

The good side of this is that people like Greg will finally get the game they've been looking for.

-10
#187 9 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

The good side of this is that people like Greg will finally get the game they've been looking for.

He can go out and get a REAL BBB today… if you don't want to pay you don't get to play… Game Over Greg.

#188 9 years ago

BBB is on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#189 9 years ago
Quoted from teekee:

He can go out and get a REAL BBB today… if you don't want to pay you don't get to play… Game Over Greg.

Tony has reached peak MMr negativity...now begins the era of Tony only posting negative things about BBBrr. Such a contributor to the forum!

I'm not losing any sleep over not having Capcom's original BBB or Gene's BBBr. I have plenty of games to enjoy in the meantime. When IPB makes their BBBrrLE+, I'll pick one up.

#190 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Gene built it in 2006 with just a few other guys and no fancy assembly line - obviously nothing too difficult about it.

Talk to Kerry Stair about that. You're completely misinformed and way out there to make the above comment. BTW Gene had all the boards and it still took years.

#191 9 years ago

I too shall purchase a 'Red Line Fever' once it's produced.

#192 9 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

New games and remakes can exist together. ..... if remakes truly are a financial threat to new game makers....then it's great incentive for them to up their game, and that only benefits us as players/buyers.....

I think this is not a sophisticated economic model/concept here.

In this particular case at this time, it looks as though Stern may end up being the only real winner in the end. And if one had to assign blames, I'd blame whoever gave Stern the power and control to kill two birds (to neutralize two competitors) with one stone.

Given the relatively small size and commensurate (also small) total potential of the pinball market, it would be naive to assume that PPS is not now or will not eventually be ( if it succeeds) a serious competitor to Stern's business interests. And it would be unwise for anyone to assume that I, as an outsider, can deduce this simple fact but with all their pinball experience and business acumen, the Stern management can't, lol.

The most important thing is though if PPS is prudent and comfortable with the arrangements that it's made with Stern, and, even more importantly, whether or not this arrangement may or may not negatively impact on its ability to deliver eventually.

disclaimer: I'm not privy to all the pertinent facts governing this collaboration, and as such everything that I'm saying here is at least to a certain extent speculative.

#193 9 years ago

I'm glad that everybody that wants some of these hard to afford machines will get their chance to own a brand new one some day, but I am also glad that none of these games are ones that I have a strong desire to own.
It's a win/win if you ask me.

Add another win for the flippers that are talking them down now when in ten years these will be the games they are flipping.

#194 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

BBB is on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyone except Tony seems to understand this reality.

#195 9 years ago
Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

Talk to Kerry Stair about that. You're completely misinformed and way out there to make the above comment. BTW Gene had all the boards and it still took years.

It got built by just a few guys, and not on some fancy Stern or JJP assembly line.

How long do you think it would take Stern to make 500 of them? Years?

#196 9 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Everyone except Tony seems to understand this reality.

He is just pushing your buttons.

Everyone said the same thing about the first BBB remake, and of course the MMr.......

#197 9 years ago
Quoted from Miguel351:

Let's be real, though. If Rick wasn't getting the rights to produce parts and/or whole remakes for Kingpin, BBB, TAF, and all the other licenses Gene held, what the hell good would it be to buy his company? Cat-piss and raccoon turd pinball machines don't sell well.

This is what I've been saying as well, but the monkey wrench is that they got IPB. So maybe it was worth it to get those cat-piss pins if they got it in conjunction with (only) IPB?

I'd really like Rick to chime in here and answer the question with regard to the Capcom rights (which was not mentioned at all in the announcement).

#198 9 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I'd really like Rick to chime in here and answer the question with regard to the Capcom rights (which was not mentioned at all in the announcement).

He's probably too busy boxing up the first run of MMrs, which are scheduled to ship in the next couple of weeks.

#199 9 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Everyone except Tony seems to understand this reality.

I'll jump in with Tony - I do not think Rick has plans to remake BBB . To me that means we are two machines or more away if he changes his mind down the road. MMr , AFMr , CCr if that one gets done, MBr , I think those would come first. If I am right then BBBr is 3 years out, and that's IF he changes his mind, and assuming no one else does it.

Tron premium? Yes, please. I already have a BBB and it's pretty but not that fun once the new wears off. If he does make it I predict a storm of negative reviews as more people get to play it. The new Sterns are so much better. But hey, I like all pinball anyway, it's all better than mowing the lawn.

On a side note - couldn't something be done about BBB and how it plays with a remake? Like add a killer ruleset or something to improve it. Just a shame it's so pretty and yet so shallow.

#200 9 years ago
Quoted from rommy:

I already have a BBB and it's pretty but not that fun once the new wears off. [...] The new Sterns are so much better.

Agreed. There are at least a dozen Sterns that I find twice as fun as BBB, for less than half the going rate. BBB isn't expensive because it's great, it's expensive because it's rare. Once anyone can have a BBB for $8k, trophy collectors will no longer want one.

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