Interesting point. And I fully agree with your concern. In fact, that's one of the reason why the Pinside does not support pasting image URLs in posts. I want people to upload the actual image so we can make sure the image will remain accessible, even if the original source goes away.

People often mention the running costs as a reason why the Pinside would disappear. But don't forget that Usenet is also being payed for by certain parties. Universities, ISP's etc. - Running Usenet is not free of cost. A friend of mine visited a large hosting provider here in the Netherlands recently. He spotted a large rack and was told this was the Usenet rack. This thing had hardware requirements, power requirements, maintenance. My point is: it costs money to run Usenet. I'm guessing this provider, as do many providers and universities, maintains this server for their user base because there is a demand. If that demand ceases or if the cost of maintaining it does no longer weigh up against the benefits, they *will* pull the plug on that rack. If others follow it could be over relatively quickly.

And secondly, with the increased abuse of Usenet for posting and retrieving illegal content, it remains to be seen how long it can last against the copyright holders lobby. They maight only succesfully take down the alt.binaries.* tree, but that would mean a huge decrease in Usenet usage (see my first point).

Thirdly, a question from my end. Many of us depend on Google or RGP Archive to access historic data/posts from RGP. Are there many servers worldwide who still hold the complete RGP history?

Not sure about the complete history but I've found posts I made in 1997 on RGP and RGVAC (and RGVAM)

I was bored at work one day and started going through my old post. Funny stuff...I can't believe I paid $800 for a extremely rough but working Robotron...which I still have.

This is through Google groups..not sure about the archive site

I took it for what it was and saw no trolling. Well anyway it can happen, as soon as robin gets tired of it or it becomes a tax on time, for example, new job, illness, life change......just like game room magazine, or the p2k CPU makers (brain fart on the co) another example if Schelberg doesn't do pingame journal it's over. I just hope if that day comes they both pass on the legacy.

Maybe I'll move to Alaska and live in the wild

I' d go tropical,less bears

images.jpg

Kyle is a good man.

And he has seen things pinball related come and go.

Kicking up discussion to be sure there are great resources like RGP, Pinside, and other places, can be available for future generations of pinball fans.

Who you help today in pinball, goes forward. We've seen it happen.

Helps keep pinball alive, and that is a good thing.

There will always be change. And seeing pinball continue, is the idea.

LTG : )

interesting or schtupid?

I've never met Kyle, but I've come to accept that this hobby attracts many quirky people. Kyle's rant really isn't the point here IMO. One of your moderators posted a link to that thread with only a quip about pinside having one foot in the grave (which you quoted). He may have not intended it as a troll, but that is a troll. Throwing out a link with a controversial tone from somewhere else without any thoughts is asking for trouble.

I'm not suggesting gweem should be demoted or anything. Clearly he wasn't intentionally trolling. But as a moderator, he should know how to spot trolling. As it stands, this thread should've never been started. If anyone but a moderator started it, it should have been completely deleted. Not locked, deleted. What's the point of moderation if you don't keep BS like that out of here? What good has come from this thread or the one it spawned?

I'd like to sit down with gweem, Kyle and you to drink a few beers. Maybe a few shots too. Now that would be a cool conversation.

Wow...small world indeed! I've been a long time member on AVS and Remote Central, though not very active at all on either (actually I'm not positive I ever set up an account on RC, but I have done tons of research there...). DVDTalk is another where I am a bit more active, but not as much as here or RGP in the past. All great communities. And on the subject of great niche communities that have unfortunately died and taken a great deal of good info with them, I sure do miss AV123. Such a shame how that all went down (long crazy story not worth getting into). That was one of the most friendly home theater forums around, though obviously biased to that brand. Looking back, Pinside reminds me a lot of that place (though I doubt Robin will end up in jail for basically stealing charity money like the founder of that place did...like I said, long crazy story..LOL!) OK...enough rambling from me.

Long live Pinside!

This is great point. Many of the usnet proponents cite how it is truly independent but fail to realize resources, with ongoing costs, are being spent by organizations to keep it going. Anytime $$$ are involved it is at risk of being cut or replaced.

That was my old Hobby. With 3 kids I finally sold off my gear. Has B&W 802s running on Classe 400 watt monos all straightwire plus center channel and rears plus Velodyne Sub. And that was just my main system. That gave me the money to buy pins though : )
From my visit to Abbey Road. Abbey_Road.jpg

You were obviously making fun of Kyle's post. The smiley at the end with the rolling eyes kinda confirms that. As I said earlier, what good can come from a thread like this? Why even bother posting something like that? Educating pinsiders? About what exactly? How much of a nut Kyle is?

Expo is on my bucket list. Some day.

Well there's more posts on this thread. I read the rgp thread, and it reiterated why I am on Pinside. I am a noob simply because I am young. Sure I haven't been collecting since the 80's because I wasn't born until 86. I love pinball, and the long time rgp posters make me feel like I'm not welcome in this hobby. Embrace the people who have the same hobbies as you. Don't make them feel unwelcome because they were late to the party.

The haters are mad because they think all this new blood is driving prices up. While that may be true, the new interest will keep pinball healthy for quite some time. Ignore them.

I used to be really into the exciting world of programming remotes. I spent a lot of time on remotecentral.com and hifi-remote.com/forums. I still go to hifi-remote.com when I need to download an upgrade for a new device, but I don't stalk the forum like I used to.

Probably because it's funny. I find it silly that people actually take offense to others liking a certain site over another or wish one ill will because it is becoming more popular. It is Pinball man, go where you like no need to wish ill will on the other or predict it will fail. I found the post funny because of how popular Pinside has become in the past year especially with new enthusiasts. His prediction seemed to fly in the face of reason.

Without Pinside I am not sure I would of gotten into Pinball due to the high cost of hiring a professional to come out and fix problems. I was lucky enough to make some friends here years back that helped me gain the knowledge and confidence to fix and even add to machines. I know this is not the case for all and that some would say there are better places to get help. However, Pinside has been very helpful for me and probably got me more into pinball then I would of been without it. Big thanks to Robin for maintaining and improving it over the years!

Crestron!

Hey, if you like CONTROL in your life the two best things to own are Crestron and handcuffs ; )

I keep it simple...I'm a Harmony guy. Love my One! I haven't kept up on anything else since getting it since I've been completely satisfied with it. I always wanted to play with a Pronto back when they were all the rage, but budget constraints kept that from happening. Are they even around anymore?

I have an old URC MX-500 laying around that came with my Emotiva preamp back in the day, but I've literally never used it.

True. Even the best stuff is becomong outdated.

That MX-500 was game changer. No two way feedback but a sick remote for the money.

But again, technology speeds ahead.

I have a URC-9910 and two URC-8910s (the 9910 is just an 8910 with an RF extender).

I still can do the JP1 stuff when I need to. I just don't fiddle with it as much. Playing and working on pinball machines is a lot more fun and addicting to me.

So how does a remote become 'sick'? Is it when the batteries leak? Or if you drop it and break something? I guess then it is 'sick'.....

Hello! My name is Kyle Wren and I started the thread in question on RGP. Not looking to get into a fight over here, I just thought I would explain my motivations for doing so as I am not looking to make "pinball enemies", and that was not my intention. In a nutshell, while I stand by my prediction on this site I don't wish it (or it's owner and moderators) ill will. I have just seen a lot of stuff come and go, maybe this will be the exception to that?

It would however be nice if RGP didn't have to have three or four new threads started every day, presumably by pinside members that are pleased with things over here to the point that they need to predict gloom and doom on us. That is what motivated me to start the thread over there. RGP isn't for everyone and I get that. I like it there and there are aspects of the "wild west" nature of Usenet that appeal to me over forums like this one. Not to say this is a bad forum, I have spent a while looking around here and it seems like a good bunch of folks who like the silver ball, and that is great.

I would be happy to meet anyone here as I am not a troll (you will find when you meet me I'm more shaped like an Ogre), I also do not post to the Internet anonymously although I couldn't figure out any way to change my signature here to be my actual name. I am usually at Expo every year (sadly I missed this year). I am also at the Ohio Show in March most years. Ask me any questions and I will answer, I am not shy.

Simple solution post RGP stuff on RGP and post Pinside stuff here.

People have to go and make it complicated. Hopefully most pinsiders like me just dont care. And that should be perfect. I wish pinsiders did not read that and come post it here. Say what you want and if I dont hear it or read it there is zero impact. Luckily no one reads this to me out loud while I am tied down so I can also ignore or read and not care. Sooo many choices.
You were fine in posting in my opinion folks need to let go and not bring it here and vice versa.
Oh by the way the world is ending too ack!

Pinside vs RGP pinball tourney for ultimate pinball supremacy!!!!

I joined AVS in 2002 (was a member at Home Theater Forum before that). I have over 13k posts at AVS. I've been extremely non-active there for the last two years. Why? Because I found this new hobby that is more addicting than any that I've ever had. Care to guess what it is?

Couldn't agree more. I'm huge on the hard buttons as well, and largely for that reason I'm in the URC camp.

Hey Kyle, thanks for taking the time to post this. I'm sorry if people are posting about Pinside at the expense of RGP, that's definitely not something I support. As I said earlier, there's no need for a "us vs them" mentality because it's all pinball and imho there can't be enough of that.

Seriously, let's have a beer some day!

Well, I have to admit to something and give credit where credit is due. I posted my previous entry and then had to drop offline right away (drive home, visit sick Momma, eat, etc). Kind of forgot about this actually. Then I remembered so I had to jump online, fully expecting to have been monkeypiled in the defenseless 4 or so hours since I was on. Didn't happen, and to be honest again I don't think I've ever been treated as friendly by a forum owner as I have you Robin. Thanks for that. Maybe this really will be the forum that "makes it". I have to say you do have a pretty impressive amount of traffic on here.

Kyle...welcome to pinside!

Let's not forget Kyle is buying beer at Expo next year.

LTG : )

Welcome Kyle!

WELCOME BRO! Rick here! Awesome to have ya man! Now we can gang bang the Dundah from down undah!

Kyle, you made an excellent choice man. I am so stoked your here! feel free to cruise my Pinside page and gander at my stuff!

Rick. "I'm gonna have me some fun" #190

Welcome Kyle. I like Stella, or more exotic entertaining beers.

Welcome Aboard Kyle

SNSD_Sexy_Sailor_Girls_Wallpaper.jpg

Thanks guys! And thanks for the new desktop wallpaper!!

What did you listen too most? What sounded best through hot gear?

24 bit CDs especially Dark Side of the moon.

Thats also the problem with super high end. Just chasing stuff good enough to listen to becomes a chore. But seriously Pink Floyd or Sarah Mclachlan singing Angel was freaking mind blowing.

Another AVS alumni....Don't remember how many posts I had, but it was a crap ton. I fully automated my home, was a pioneer in the CQC development (wrote many of the device drivers), and built a home theater following Dennis Erskine's formula. I haven't posted there in probably 2+ years, but I still get PMs time to time asking about HA advice.

I thought the point of having a remote like that is so you have everything on one.

1 for the family room system, 1 for the master bedroom, 1 for the basement theater etc

Kyle....watch out...pretty soon you'll be installing LED's and checking out the pinball mod's threads

I still have my MX-700 and love it!