(Topic ID: 228416)

An Idea to Improve the IFPA NACS


By Whysnow

7 months ago



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    #1 7 months ago

    I have been part of the SCS (now called NACS) since the start and while I understand that I have been opinionated on some of the decisions the IFPA has made, I still like to see competitive pinball succeed and grow.

    Over the years I think the one thing I have always found strange is how / when players must commit to the state they plan to play in. The current system has everyone frantically submitting results for end of year tourneys, then IFPA frantically approving, and then the players commit to a state they will play in after all that. The NACS for each state occurs on Jan 19th 2019, so that is a lot to get done in a short time and you of course sadly have a few people that refuse to commit until the last possible moment and some TDs that are slow on getting those final results in.

    I think this system detracts form the real competitive hunt for players to earn positions and is allows a select few players to do silly games to be a distraction from the whole thing.

    My suggestion, require players to commit by Oct 31st of each year. Set up their profile so they can select any state up until Oct 31st. If they do not select a state then it will auto defualt to the state which they hold the highest position in as of Oct 31st. As of that date, lock it down and players are only allowed to swap states if for some reason they dont qualify for the state they previously selected.

    The benefit of this is that going in to the final 2 months of the season, every player has a real cut line to shoot for.

    Instead of an imaginary line and trying to guess whom may or may not attend a NACS each player can really hunt for points to make the line (or top 8 line in the case of a bye for super states)

    This becomes even more pronounced in a state like Penn or IL when a select few tourneys which attract lots of out of state players are what account for a larger % of total points in the state. This can cause these states to go very far in the overall list each year.

    Seems logical for the player base and a net positive for competitive pinball to make this sort of shift. I cant think of any other sport where the cut line for making a cap stone yearly event is so grey.

    #2 7 months ago

    SCS/ NACS players?

    thoughts?

    pros/cons?

    #3 7 months ago

    Everybody should be able to stay home and play their own games, take a picture of their scores and send it in with their entrance fees and a treat of some sort. Whichever treat the judges like the best, is the winner.

    #4 7 months ago

    It's only a dollar

    #5 7 months ago

    I wish they'd just make the date later, but wouldn't mind this.

    #6 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    SCS/ NACS players?
    thoughts?
    pros/cons?

    They’re over on tilt.forums.

    #7 7 months ago
    Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

    They’re over on tilt.forums.

    nah, lots hang out here also.

    #8 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    My suggestion, require players to commit by Oct 31st of each year. Set up their profile so they can select any state up until Oct 31st

    So make people commit to playing a SCS, when they still have 2 months of tourneys to play and don't really know where they stand in all options?

    #9 7 months ago

    It sounds like folks want their cake and eat it, too. Oh well. As a newbie who will be playing in my first SCS in January, I say: Pick a state and focus. Flame suit on, but I think whysnow makes a good point.

    #10 7 months ago
    Quoted from DNO:

    So make people commit to playing a SCS, when they still have 2 months of tourneys to play and don't really know where they stand in all options?

    Yes, that is precisely what I am saying.

    Here is your current NACS standing
    https://www.ifpapinball.com/player.php?p=66

    You are 1st in CO, 28th in OK, and unlikely to play anywhere but CO (or qualify in any other state at this stage of the season)
    If you are forced to declare for CO intent as of Oct 31st, then that means people below you in OK have a much better idea of where the real cut line will be as they come into the final 3 event of the year in the state.

    https://www.ifpapinball.com/nacs/standings.php?l=OK

    https://www.ifpapinball.com/nacs/standings.php?l=OK#uptour

    This seems like a net positive for both people in CO to know that slot is taken (you mathematically wont drop out of top 24 no matter what) and also helps people in a state that you are unlikely to play in know where they stand.

    From a competitive pinball stance this also really helps hype the last 2 months as people work towards a cut line (either top 8 for a bye, or for top 16 or 24 to qualify).

    I can't come up with any negative of forcing you to declare by Oct 31st what state you are committing to.
    Is there one in your mind or are you just playing advocate for fun?

    #11 7 months ago

    I’d like to pick my state based on my seeding so I want to wait until Jan 1. If i can get a bye somewhere else maybe I’ll go there instead.

    This may not hype play in nov and dec much as guys are already scrambling to get all the points they can.

    Other options-
    Don’t play the championship in January play feb 1 or later so you can make better plans.

    Use you home state not where the points are scored. I know this will rile people up but it is a solution.

    This sounds like a solution looking for a problem. Only a hand full of TDs and top players are involved. All the guys on the bubble will still be on a bubble. They are usually ‘local’ anyway aren’t they?

    #12 7 months ago

    I think it should be very easy to handle. Whatever state is listed on your drivers license is the state that you can participate in. If you happen to move during the year, and have proof, then you can pick which state you want to go for by the current deadline. as there shouldn't be that many that moved that it couldn't be handled in a timely manner

    The current way really doesn't benefit anyone other than the people that run ifpa. Just imagine how mad the lead players in Illinois would be if only a couple got to go instead of the usual same ones that always get to since they qualify in other states.

    Make me think of the Olympics which generally piss me off. Take hockey, you have all these guys that live in the US, work for a US corporation making millinos, then when its time for the Olympics, they play for Russia and such. Where you live should matter for where you get to play

    #13 7 months ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    I’d like to pick my state based on my seeding so I want to wait until Jan 1. If i can get a bye somewhere else maybe I’ll go there instead.
    This may not hype play in nov and dec much as guys are already scrambling to get all the points they can.
    Other options-
    Don’t play the championship in January play feb 1 or later so you can make better plans.
    Use you home state not where the points are scored. I know this will rile people up but it is a solution.
    This sounds like a solution looking for a problem. Only a hand full of TDs and top players are involved. All the guys on the bubble will still be on a bubble. They are usually ‘local’ anyway aren’t they?

    Can you link up your IFPA profile please?

    I have been scanning around and it appears a very select few people even have a legit option of playing in multiple states. Would be nice to examine a profile of a real person to see the potential impacts for both you and for others.

    I can understand how that would be beneficial for those looking to get a step up, find the easiest route to nationals, or now (with new higher prize pools) select the spot with the most bucks.

    However, in the desire to grow the sport for the majority I see LOTS of people that a new method could benefit by having a more black/white understanding of the cut line.

    I personally like the idea of playing where your state ID is, but also understand that can actually be a bad thing for the sport if you want to encourage people to travel and with many states the big tournies are near state lines so many people may play where they dont live. I now agree it is their right to select where to play... just think everyone should have to do it earlier/ by Oct 31st.

    #14 7 months ago
    Quoted from vidgameseller:

    I think it should be very easy to handle. Whatever state is listed on your drivers license is the state that you can participate in. If you happen to move during the year, and have proof, then you can pick which state you want to go for by the current deadline. as there shouldn't be that many that moved that it couldn't be handled in a timely manner
    The current way really doesn't benefit anyone other than the people that run ifpa. Just imagine how mad the lead players in Illinois would be if only a couple got to go instead of the usual same ones that always get to since they qualify in other states.
    Make me think of the Olympics which generally piss me off. Take hockey, you have all these guys that live in the US, work for a US corporation making millinos, then when its time for the Olympics, they play for Russia and such. Where you live should matter for where you get to play

    I was born and raised in Louisville, KY. Work there too. I moved to southern IN, just minutes away, so my home state is IN, but ALL of my tournament play is in KY. I'd have to travel 2.5 hours north weekly to participate in the active IN tourney scene. There is absolutely no competitive play in southern IN. I get what you are saying, but I'd have to disagree on a situational basis.

    Also, this is me since we are posting IFPA profiles:
    https://www.ifpapinball.com/player.php?p=9794

    #15 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Can you link up your IFPA profile please?

    Nope, I really only qualify in GA, so I was making a point, not referring to me.

    Quoted from Whysnow:

    However, in the desire to grow the sport for the majority I see LOTS of people that a new method could benefit by having a more black/white understanding of the cut line.

    There will always be a bubble, you will never solve this. Even if you eliminate the out of state players, it will never be just he top 16. Some people can't or won't play in the SCS, so the line moves down until the last minute. If someone is really interested they can look at previous years to see how low the line went and they can estimate, that's what I did the first couple years. In GA we usually go to about # 40. Mainly due to Pinvasion, but there are folks in the teens that just can't play anyway, and we suggest alternate 1 & 2 are at the ready.

    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I personally like the idea of playing where your state ID is, but also understand that can actually be a bad thing for the sport if you want to encourage people to travel and with many states the big tournies are near state lines so many people may play where they dont live. I now agree it is their right to select where to play... just think everyone should have to do it earlier/ by Oct 31st.

    This is solved by using all of your points accumulated that year (or at least your top 20), not just the ones in your home state.

    This would actually increase tournament participation by out-of-state players and help grow associated shows. If out of state points counted in GA, I would travel to regional shows more regularly - like Nashville, Louisville, Free Play Florida, the tournaments in AL, SC & NC. These don't count now, so I don't go out of my way to attend the events.

    #16 7 months ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Nope, I really only qualify in GA, so I was making a point, not referring to me.

    I think that is the case for most so seems silly to not have it declared by now

    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    There will always be a bubble, you will never solve this.

    Of course it wont ever completely define a line. But it will surely make it a bit tighter and more within grasp. Also really fun to have the final season 2 month hype as people really duke it out for either top 8 bye or top 16/24 position.

    Quoted from treborlicec:

    I was born and raised in Louisville, KY. Work there too. I moved to southern IN, just minutes away, so my home state is IN, but ALL of my tournament play is in KY. I'd have to travel 2.5 hours north weekly to participate in the active IN tourney scene. There is absolutely no competitive play in southern IN. I get what you are saying, but I'd have to disagree on a situational basis.
    Also, this is me since we are posting IFPA profiles:
    https://www.ifpapinball.com/player.php?p=9794

    I completely agree that the state boundaries wont work for forcing a spot to play, but would you have any issue or see any detriment in you declaring by Oct 31st that you will be playing in Kentucy?

    If we use your state as a nice example.
    https://www.ifpapinball.com/nacs/standings.php?l=KY

    There is something like a likely 16 point difference between possible and likely cut line and a whole bunch of people that are unnecessarily left in the dark on where they may/may not be shooting for without knowing where that cut line may reside.

    Kentucy (resized).JPG
    #17 7 months ago

    Well, let's use your state for example.

    Jeez dude you got some work to do!

    Light humor aside, there's no need to change anything. I haven't heard anybody clamoring for this, and the majority of players who will actually qualify for this will prefer the flexibility they currently have.

    It's also the first year of the new system (the fruits of the dreaded $1 fee that was going to destroy the IFPA) so I think a wait and see approach is prudent before suggesting drastic changes.

    WI (resized).jpg
    #18 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Well, let's use your state for example.
    Jeez dude you got some work to do!
    Light humor aside, there's no need to change anything. I haven't heard anybody clamoring for this, and the majority of players who will actually qualify for this will prefer the flexibility they currently have.
    It's also the first year of the new system (the fruits of the dreaded $1 fee that was going to destroy the IFPA) so I think a wait and see approach is prudent before suggesting drastic changes. [quoted image]

    LOL. I am not playing in NACS as I am hosting at my house this year.

    I made sure to only donate $8 to the prize pool for the top dogs to win

    #19 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    the majority of players who will actually qualify for this will prefer the flexibility they currently have.

    what flexibility?

    You have not made a single top 16 yet...

    Not a whole lot of flex...

    Loser (resized).JPG
    #20 7 months ago

    Apparently it's top 24 this year. Maybe only in some states?

    #21 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    I think a wait and see approach is prudent before suggesting drastic changes.

    back on actual topic...please elucidate on how this would be a drastic change?

    #22 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Apparently it's top 24 this year.

    you are correct. Congrats on qualifying for NY so far. You still have zero flex... It is either NY or nothing for you.

    #23 7 months ago
    Quoted from vidgameseller:

    Make me think of the Olympics which generally piss me off. Take hockey, you have all these guys that live in the US, work for a US corporation making millinos, then when its time for the Olympics, they play for Russia and such. Where you live should matter for where you get to play

    What an incredibly American opinion.

    #24 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    you are correct. Congrats on qualifying for NY so far. You still have zero flex... It is either NY or nothing for you.

    So what?

    I'm not talking about myself.

    PLenty of players will have a number of options. For some reason that you can't explain to my satisfaction you think they shouldn't, when exactly NOBODY except yourself has ever suggested the current system doesn't work.

    I'm not suggesting your opinion doesn't carry much weight because you are so poorly ranked in your own state. Everybody is entitled to an opinion.

    If you really want to get players' opinions on this, you should throw it out on tiltforums. Those guys are aching for something to discuss.

    #25 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    So what?
    I'm not talking about myself.
    PLenty of players will have a number of options. For some reason that you can't explain to my satisfaction you think they shouldn't, when exactly NOBODY except yourself has ever suggested the current system doesn't work.
    I'm not suggesting your opinion doesn't carry much weight because you are so poorly ranked in your own state. Everybody is entitled to an opinion.
    If you really want to get players' opinions on this, you should throw it out on tiltforums. Those guys are aching for something to discuss.

    sorry, I dont find tilt forums to be very user friendly to use and cant seem to post over there the few times I have tried (just not really a good forum UI)

    I am not so much saying this is a broken system but saying there is a way to make it better.

    Not playing in NACS this year has allowed me a unique perspective of no bias in wanting to hunt points myself but to look at things in the light of how it COULD be better.

    #26 7 months ago

    Whenever we handle the selection process, the same amount of resources on the IFPA side are used. Everyone waiting to decide until October 31st would lead to a mad wave of responses on 10/31. Waiting until January 7th leads to a mad wave of responses on 1/7. I've always been on the side of any players that have earned the right to play in multiple states should be at an advantage based on their performance. Whether they decide they want to stay home, travel, play for an easy Nationals path, play for a larger State pot, those players should be given the time to evaluate that with all data in hand.

    I will say in favor of Hilton's suggestion, I've recommended State Reps to reach out to the players in their state ahead of time about the INTENTION of what players plan on doing. I do this in Illinois pretty much for the sake of my dad who is always a bubble boy. I'll typically send out an email to the top 50 on November 1st asking for people to let me know if they know for sure that aren't playing Illinois. That allows me to give a ballpark figure to my dad that he's not 68th, he's actually 18th. State Reps now have live access into the email addresses for everyone in their state standings, so I'm all for the pre-end-of-season reach out.

    #27 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I made sure to only donate $8 to the prize pool for the top dogs to win

    2017 Hilton would be APPALLED at 2018 Hilton's $8 contribution

    Meanwhile at IFPA HQ:

    pasted_image (resized).png
    #28 7 months ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    Whenever we handle the selection process, the same amount of resources on the IFPA side are used. Everyone waiting to decide until October 31st would lead to a mad wave of responses on 10/31. Waiting until January 7th leads to a mad wave of responses on 1/7. I've always been on the side of any players that have earned the right to play in multiple states should be at an advantage based on their performance. Whether they decide they want to stay home, travel, play for an easy Nationals path, play for a larger State pot, those players should be given the time to evaluate that with all data in hand.
    I will say in favor of Hilton's suggestion, I've recommended State Reps to reach out to the players in their state ahead of time about the INTENTION of what players plan on doing. I do this in Illinois pretty much for the sake of my dad who is always a bubble boy. I'll typically send out an email to the top 50 on November 1st asking for people to let me know if they know for sure that aren't playing Illinois. That allows me to give a ballpark figure to my dad that he's not 68th, he's actually 18th. State Reps now have live access into the email addresses for everyone in their state standings, so I'm all for the pre-end-of-season reach out.

    Can you run some numbers on last year on how many people:

    #1 actually had a decision to make/ option of selecting multiple states?
    #2 how many of those actually played outside of a state which was also the state they played the majority of their events in for that calendar year (my assumption being that regardless of geographic location, the state where you play the most is where most will also participate in SCS)?

    My guess is that #1 is less than 20 and #2 is a small portion of those. In other words, I understand your idea that those people have 'earned' the right to make a choice at the end of the year, but the vast majority already know where they will be playing as of Nov 1 so why not just make it a thing?

    My point is really that helping to define the cut line on Nov 1 would be for the greater good of the sport and a larger impact for more people.
    I know of people that perceive they are way out of top 16 because they dont have a state rep and son that is nice enough to reach out to people and ask for him on Nov 1

    I think it could be really cool to help the end of year hype!

    If you dont like forcing people, what about providing the fluid option for people to "declare" a state in their profile and then the "hypothetical cut line" adjusts in real time. Lock in all "declarations" on Jan 1, but until then people can switch things around. That way if Jason Werdrick wants to swap and Play in Kansas at the last minute, he can. However, I will assume most people wont play those games and will instead just make a declaration that stays the same from the very start of the season and likely never changes.

    #29 7 months ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    2017 Hilton would be APPALLED at 2018 Hilton's $8 contribution
    Meanwhile at IFPA HQ:[quoted image]

    nah, 2017 Hilton would be happy that it is a very small contribution compared to all previous years and that 2018 Hilton has put his efforts into other things for the longer term betterment of pinball

    I also may have mailed a poo dollar for the ones that go to the national pool

    #30 7 months ago

    How are state reps selected in the first place and what duties do they have? (Pm preferred)

    I agree with Hilton. Earlier declaration would be a good thing due to the lack of time between end of year numbers and scs finals date. (Now to call my doctor, did I agree with Hilton?)

    #31 7 months ago
    Quoted from GravitaR:

    I agree with Hilton.

    boom (resized).JPG
    #32 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Can you run some numbers on last year on how many people:

    #1 actually had a decision to make/ option of selecting multiple states?
    #2 how many of those actually played outside of a state which was also the state they played the majority of their events in for that calendar year (my assumption being that regardless of geographic location, the state where you play the most is where most will also participate in SCS)?

    My guess is that #1 is less than 20 and #2 is a small portion of those. In other words, I understand your idea that those people have 'earned' the right to make a choice at the end of the year, but the vast majority already know where they will be playing as of Nov 1 so why not just make it a thing?

    I don't have access to that info, but would tend to agree with your guess being a completely reasonable one.

    I'm not seeing any kind of "greater good for the sport" argument. One could argue that most people STAY HOME. With that argument one could reasonably estimate where they actually fall on the qualifying standings. We've tried to help provide that information by listing a player's registered location on the actual State standings.

    A very quick view of the current WI SCS standings, and out of the top 50 players, 11 of them are registered outside of Wisconsin.

    I think it's a great idea as WI State Rep . . . email those 11 people. I have no doubt you'll be able to get some quick feedback of their intentions. While you may run into someone like Werdrick saying "Mayyyyyyyybe, you'll just have to wait and see", I think most people know where they are going well ahead of time.

    #33 7 months ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    I don't have access to that info, but would tend to agree with your guess being a completely reasonable one.
    I'm not seeing any kind of "greater good for the sport" argument. One could argue that most people STAY HOME. With that argument one could reasonably estimate where they actually fall on the qualifying standings. We've tried to help provide that information by listing a player's registered location on the actual State standings.
    A very quick view of the current WI SCS standings, and out of the top 50 players, 11 of them are registered outside of Wisconsin.
    I think it's a great idea as WI State Rep . . . email those 11 people. I have no doubt you'll be able to get some quick feedback of their intentions. While you may run into someone like Werdrick saying "Mayyyyyyyybe, you'll just have to wait and see", I think most people know where they are going well ahead of time.

    Good idea.

    I did not realize I had email addresses already. I will blast out to those people in top 30 or 40 and collate to give others a better idea.

    I think there will be some incentive to reply early as I am opening up my collection for 1 day in advance of NACS to those that are committed to attend and hypothetical top 24. If they dont commit then they dont get the invite (seems like a fair requirement so if they want to wait to declare then they wont get any pre-play opportunity the week before actual NACS)

    #34 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Good idea.
    I did not realize I had email addresses already. I will blast out to those people in top 30 or 40 and collate to give others a better idea.
    I think there will be some incentive to reply early as I am opening up my collection for 1 day in advance of NACS to those that are committed to attend and hypothetical top 24. If they dont commit then they dont get the invite (seems like a fair requirement so if they want to wait to declare then they wont get any pre-play opportunity the week before actual NACS)

    Sorry that doesn’t seem fair at all. Besides you’ll get everyone to commit knowing it doesn’t mean anything until Jan 7 anyway.

    You need to relax. This isn’t rocket science and there no reason to lock this in early - other than to make the TD happy. There will be last minute changes no matter what you try.

    #35 7 months ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    I don't have access to that info, but would tend to agree with your guess being a completely reasonable one.
    I'm not seeing any kind of "greater good for the sport" argument. One could argue that most people STAY HOME. With that argument one could reasonably estimate where they actually fall on the qualifying standings. We've tried to help provide that information by listing a player's registered location on the actual State standings.
    A very quick view of the current WI SCS standings, and out of the top 50 players, 11 of them are registered outside of Wisconsin.
    I think it's a great idea as WI State Rep . . . email those 11 people. I have no doubt you'll be able to get some quick feedback of their intentions. While you may run into someone like Werdrick saying "Mayyyyyyyybe, you'll just have to wait and see", I think most people know where they are going well ahead of time.

    That's pretty funny. Jason showed up in Louisville this year a couple weeks prior to the KY state championship to "check out the venue", I assume, but he didn't end up playing here.

    #36 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    My guess is that #1 is less than 20

    I think you are underestimating the number of players that play in multiple states in tight crowded areas, like the Northeast. I can only speak for the NJ/NY/DE area but I know there is quite a bit of overlap because you can get to tournaments in any state within a few hours. NJ and DE also hold events that in the fourth quarter that will have a large impact on the SCS standings, simply because there are not many regular events held throughout the year. It would be impossible for most of those players to declare with any certainty where they are going to play by Nov. 1.

    #37 7 months ago
    Quoted from speederice:

    I think you are underestimating the number of players that play in multiple states in tight crowded areas, like the Northeast. I can only speak for the NJ/NY/DE area but I know there is quite a bit of overlap because you can get to tournaments in any state within a few hours. NJ and DE also hold events that in the fourth quarter that will have a large impact on the SCS standings, simply because there are not many regular events held throughout the year. It would be impossible for most of those players to declare with any certainty where they are going to play by Nov. 1.

    You forgot one big part. Venue for finals matter and most state reps still haven't communicated to all the players where that location will be.

    #38 7 months ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Sorry that doesn’t seem fair at all. Besides you’ll get everyone to commit knowing it doesn’t mean anything until Jan 7 anyway.
    You need to relax. This isn’t rocket science and there no reason to lock this in early - other than to make the TD happy. There will be last minute changes no matter what you try.

    If they are not committed in advance then they dont get to warm up on the collection. Seems plenty fair to me. House has room for 24 people and that is going to be tight already. Alternative is zero warm up leading up and everyone plays blind and I would prefer to give players a shot to get familiar with games.

    If people want to play games and say they are committed and then change at the last minute then they will be preventing someone else from getting that warm up opportunity.

    This does nothing for a TD. This is about drawing a clearer line for those int he point hunt to know where they stand.

    #39 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    This does nothing for a TD.

    That was kinda my point. It really doesnt help anyone. Nothing is set till 1/7.

    You’ll create false hope for some and false bad news for others. Why mess around with it. If people are in the hunt then let them keep trying.

    As far as practice, that just poor sportsmanship to restrict access in a made up process just to make you happy.

    Everyone should reply to your email positively and then just backout on the 7th. When that happens what have you gained?

    Seriously you are trying to solve a problem that doesn’t really exist. Kinda like dollar entry fees in WI.

    #40 7 months ago
    Quoted from speederice:

    I can only speak for the NJ/NY/DE area but I know there is quite a bit of overlap

    I think you are over estimating it after actually looking at it.

    Using NY/NJ/DE, there is 1 person in the top 30 for all 3 states (Steve Bowden whom is qualified in 7 states currently)
    There are 9 people currently qualified in 2 of those states.

    That means only 10 out of the hypothetical 90 in that list will even have that option. I am guessing the majority of those are clear already on where they plan to play. Likely a select few that prefer to game the system and want to wait to the last minute to declare.

    If instead, all 10 of them were to declare now (when they have both a clear idea of standing in each state and the likely tournaments for the remainder of the year) then the ~50 people on the possible bubble would have a much better idea of where they stand. (in reality NY is also a super state status which means you also have the bye bubble to account for).

    For me, the sport is obviously made better by more clearly defining that line for the majority (50 bubble people) vs letting 2 or 3 that have "earned" the option to delay the decision.

    #41 7 months ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    When that happens what have you gained?

    The community will have gained 2 things:
    1. The ability to clearly know their standings during the last 2 months of season play as they duke it out for points.
    2. The ability to come practice on the games that will be used for NACS in advance of the actual NACS competition.

    If Everyone replies yes and then changes on the 7th, all they are doing is screwing the people beyond 24 from having the opportunity to actually play on a collection in advance. Sorry but there is no room to invite 50 possible players into my house to have a day of warm up.

    I will flip it and what would be the incentive for someone that has zero intent to play in WI to lie and say they are going to, only to switch that on Jan 7th?

    #42 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I think you are over estimating it after actually looking at it.
    Using NY/NJ/DE, there is 1 person in the top 30 for all 3 states (Steve Bowden whom is qualified in 7 states currently)
    There are 9 people currently qualified in 2 of those states.

    You had mentioned earlier that you thought less than 20 people would be affected, but those 3 states alone produced 10 people, and that is only 3 states out of 50. The point I was trying to make is that I think you will find this would affect more players than you think. I am sure you would find similar situations across the Northeast. I bet Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Connecticut probably share many players as well.

    And @gravitar made a good point about venue selection. For a state like NY, venue selection could be the determining factor as to whether players will play in NY or another state. Last year, the venue was in Upstate NY, so many NYC-area players came down to NJ to play as it was closer to them. When it is held in NYC, I believe many Upstate NY players choose to play in another state. Venues may not be finalized by Nov. 1 so players may not have all the information that they need to make a selection.

    #43 7 months ago
    Quoted from speederice:

    And @gravitar made a good point about venue selection. For a state like NY, venue selection could be the determining factor as to whether players will play in NY or another state. Last year, the venue was in Upstate NY, so many NYC-area players came down to NJ to play as it was closer to them. When it is held in NYC, I believe many Upstate NY players choose to play in another state. Venues may not be finalized by Nov. 1 so players may not have all the information that they need to make a selection.

    could easily combine my idea with forcing state TDs to have venue seleciton nailed down by Early Oct so players can factor in that decision. Let's be honest, TDs should already have that decided at minimum and be working on getting games prepped for competition.

    #44 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    could easily combine my idea with forcing state TDs to have venue seleciton nailed down by Early Oct so players can factor in that decision. Let's be honest, TDs should already have that decided at minimum and be working on getting games prepped for competition.

    This is one thing I think would benefit decision making for those participating. If you live in PA and you are on the eastern side of the state, you are better off playing in NY, NJ or MD if travel is an issue. I also think we should rotate the venues to include other areas/locations to help promote growth in the hobby.

    #45 7 months ago

    If you are lucky to be in a state with venues that can support an scs in the first place. In MI. I can only think of one venue that is enjoyed by all and is scs ready. The players that don't like to travel pretty much put an end to that dream location though, sadly enough. The rest would have to fix up games, get more games, improve lighting, etc...

    #46 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    You are 1st in CO, 28th in OK, and unlikely to play anywhere but CO (or qualify in any other state at this stage of the season)
    If you are forced to declare for CO intent as of Oct 31st, then that means people below you in OK have a much better idea of where the real cut line will be as they come into the final 3 event of the year in the state.

    What if I decide I want to try to qualify in OK? (after Oct) I'm screwed because of this unnecessary rule. (or I had to falsely declare, or whatever, tainting the CO field if I don't make it)
    I think you would be better off pushing for a Feb/March date for SCS, and a mid-year Nationals. (THAT I could get behind)
    If anyone is pushing for a spot or bye, they should be playing anyway! And with the mystery of multiple state qualifiers, it should give MORE players a hope of qualifying., and bump tournament attendance.
    Making everyone declare before the smoke has cleared and the tournaments are over actually seems to deflate the excitement, everyone should be grinding for points that last couple months!
    ...and those on cut lines had best be hoping the mighty Werdrick isn't coming for Them!!!

    #47 7 months ago

    I like the cap of 20 events but would like to see a floor of 5 events as well, that way if some fly by night player doesn’t have to get an invite into the SCS. This saves work for the TD to track down the person who will ultimately 9 times out of 10 say no.

    #48 7 months ago
    Quoted from DNO:

    What if I decide I want to try to qualify in OK? (after Oct) I'm screwed because of this unnecessary rule. (or I had to falsely declare, or whatever, tainting the CO field if I don't make it)
    I think you would be better off pushing for a Feb/March date for SCS, and a mid-year Nationals. (THAT I could get behind)
    If anyone is pushing for a spot or bye, they should be playing anyway! And with the mystery of multiple state qualifiers, it should give MORE players a hope of qualifying., and bump tournament attendance.
    Making everyone declare before the smoke has cleared and the tournaments are over actually seems to deflate the excitement, everyone should be grinding for points that last couple months!
    ...and those on cut lines had best be hoping the mighty Werdrick isn't coming for Them!!!

    It really comes down to what B Kelly says... Don't be a dick.

    You have zero intention of playing in OK and you already know it right now. Why not just declare and provide that clarity for the OK players... it seems really simple to help provide more clarity for the majority, rath then let a few play silly games. You do you though... it is what makes you 'special'.

    #49 7 months ago

    if you only pay $8 for the top 8 to collect points. Wouldn't those top 8 hardly get any points since the value of the points is based on who participated in the event? So a 8 person event, wouldn't be worth diddlydick. correct? At that point, might be better to just save your $1

    #50 7 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    it seems really simple to help provide more clarity for the majority, rath then let a few play silly games. You do you though... it is what makes you 'special'.

    Um, just an example of how this idea is not a good one.
    If I earn Multiple spots, I can choose, that's how it is, and how I imagine it will stay.
    Also, I don't play silly games, everyone knows where I will play, I would tell anyone who asks even if I were qualified in multiple states.

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