It's a great pinball machine. Nice to see it being remade if that's the case. I'd definitely be interested in one but the price does need to be and should be cheaper than MMr. Let's think positive and see what happens!

Haha ok you look a lot like someone from another forum

I disagree with that one, there are BIG differences between a Williams MM and a PPS/CGC MMR. Maybe not in game play but what's under the covers (boards, socketed lights, etc.) is completely different.

If the cost to build is $6000 for example, they would need to sell 2000 units at $7k to make the same profit as 1000 units sold at $8k. The question is would it be more likely to sell 1000 AFMr at $8k or 2000 AFMr at $7k? I am not sure what the answer would be but the "on the fencers" seem to be okay with the $7k price. If CGC wants to stick it to Stern while making customers happier, 2000 units at $7k is the way to go.

Interesting debate.

I personally really value an original, non faded, screen printed cabinet over new stickers but seems like I am in the minority.

And a nice original playfield over a reproduction - but again probably in the minority.

Most corporate dental plans have a $2000 lifetime orthodontal credit. If your company frequently changes dental providers, and you time it correctly it could be $2000 lifetime orthodontal credit for the old plan and the new plan as well, so $4000. This doesn't have anything to do with pinball except maybe help you to be able to afford one.

Cost to build in quantity 1K is $2300

Yeah man, you got very lucky, we even talked about it. I was on that ad in 5 minutes of it posting and you already had me beat. There were 6 other guys lined up to buy it as well, it was underpriced for its value. That is not the norm for games of that caliber.

I begrudge no one their margin, but if you pad it too much on a mass produced commercial device I'm gonna pass. Doesn't seem that hard to me.

Finally a realistic number to cost of building games in bulk

That's why I won't buy an iPhone.

The 6 only costs Apple $200.10 to make.

I sure hope they know what they're doing with AFMR.

Because from where I'm sitting, that's a huge mistake. I sold a mint AFM last year, with new playfield, plastics, cabinet decals, full LED's, color DMD, etc. And struggled to finally get $7500 for it after sitting unsold for weeks.

And now they're going to try and get people to cough over $8500 (presumably) for a AFMr. I hope they did their market research, because it feels to me like saturation, and that nobody is climbing out of the bushes for AFM's any more.

CC would've been an INFINITELY better choice, IMHO.

Wait and see, I guess.

He posted that to throw all of you off! It's MBr suckas!!!

It's an interesting quandary, because I would bet that part of the reason that it took you awhile to get $7500.00 for your AFM was the mere potential that AFMr was going to be announced soon.

I for one hope they really do make a Monster Bash remake, however just thinking in the term of dollars for rights to copyrighted material beyond Williams, such as Universal and not sure if they even need the rights from all the families of the characters likeness involved ie: Ben Chapman, Bela Lugosi, Elsa Lanchester, Boris Karloff, Lon Chaney, I fear this maybe a hard task to accomplish within a doable cost factor range.

But they've been talking about an AFMr literally since MMr preorders. And if I'm a potential AFM buyer, do I wait to pay (certainly) more for a (subjective, but to me) lesser reproduction, knowing the issues and delays with MMr? When there's a perfect original to be had now for less money?

That doesn't seem to explain it to me.

Who was your market? Were you trying to sell to Pinsiders and Craigslisters? People have to realize there's a different market for new games. It's not laser focused at US. Joe Schmoe who has a rec room and wants a cool pinball machine will look online, see he can get a NEW AFM, he can read it's a top 10 game, and order it with his credit card from a gameroom store. Those customers aren't looking here or on CL. They don't want to buy a game from "a guy". They want it new, with a warranty.

Spot on. The mass market pinball buyers want a shiny new product with warranty especially if its only $1K-$2K difference. They will assume that pinball is just like any other consumer goods like cars, fridges, tv's etc and expect a 20 year old product without warranty to be worth next to nothing compared to a new product.

Yes, I didn't open a Game Room store to sell it. Good guess!

If I were PPS, I would put a title out there which does both. Excites the ravenous Pinside crowd, which AFM doesn't appear to be doing at all, as well as this huge market of clueless Joe Schmoe's eager to spend $8500 on a repro of a classic pinball machine for their man cave.

I think some of the people speculating about the lack of AFM's playfield parts/assemblies are closer to the mark. You really can't pick a machine with less parts, less playfield assemblies, etc which sells for more.

What is this "warranty" you speak of?

It says on the bill of sale but I wouldn't know because I haven't had to use it since I haven't had any problems with my MMR in the almost 2 years of owning it.

Or price it so that the informed hobbyist is enticed and let the gameroom guys mark it up to whatever they want for the retail buyer. Sell it to everyone. Or don't, I don't care. I'll keep looking for an original in players shape so I can put it at my location.

Yeah. I'd say MMR has been pretty solid. Not a problem with mine. PPS board is a ghost town compared to issues with GBusters.
I'd have FAR more confidence in a PPS/CGC built game over what Stern is putting out these days.

But you are making a lot of assumptions that a potential buyer may not share.

Take a look in this thread. People are saying that AFMr is going to come in at $6000-$6500.00! If people really believe that is a possibility, then how can you say that this "doesn't seem to explain it?" Plenty of people out there who would actually rather have a "new" pin vs. an "old" original. You and I may not be one of them, but it that isn't the point.

I think the Pinside crowd is over pre-orders and delays, so until there's real info, there's no excitement. If PPS does what it claims it claims it's going to...which is to reveal the game when it's ready to order, I think that'll change things around here. If someone's thinking about buying a new game...skeptical of Stern's QC, skeptical of wait times from other companies...they're itching for something brand new, and AFM is ready to ship the second you send a check...I think it will do well with this crowd. All depends on price...we don't know yet, so - STAY TUNED lol

Really? Based on what?

What was the last pin that CGC built? Vacation America?

I never understood that CGC/Stern relationship. Stern is a competitor. If I was a competitor like Stern asked to make MMRs for CGC, I would purposely delay production, make multiple excuses and make people wait ages for their MMRs. Uuuumh saaaay......

They should do that whilst secretly looking into why MMR playfields aren't in shambles.

Welp, glad you're not running any pinball manufacturing companies.

Doesn't CGC make all the playfields for Stern too??

No idea just being a smart ass. Never heard of MMR having the issues Stern is ?

People are dreaming, you meant to say.

I don't see $6000-6500 as a real possibility, so yes, I'm making that assumption. But even at $7500, which is more realistic, I'd still be worried about sales.

I understand some people want new/warranty, and there are a lot of other markets for pin sales these days apart from collectors. My point is that the allure of AFM seems to have been a bit tarnished by all the new releases and the abundance of restored AFM's already in the marketplace, and with my first hand experience of a stale AFM market, I firmly believe CC would've been a better choice in terms of sales and excitement.

But as I said before, I think the real reason is that profit/ease of AFM's sparse playfield re-manufacture, compared to CC or MB.

We'll see! After all, if AFMr turns out to be $6k then I might actually order one!

A couple of pinsiders posted their MMRs are ghosting just as bad as Stern's . Wonder what kind of replacement "program" CGC/PPS is coming up with.

I think he's trying to say something without saying it. I heard the same thing from someone. Not sure if there's any basis to it, but I've heard it too

In at $2500

Curious were any pictures of this posted?

Yes. Give me enough time to rack my brain and I may be able to find them.

It was this thread and it is clearcoat chipping.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/documenting-the-entire-life-of-a-medieval-madness-remake

When Stern moved into their larger building, they had room to do assembly for other companies.

Stern buys cabinets and playfields from CGC, so they already have a working relationship.

So yes, Stern is a competitor, but I'm sure they would rather get $208 from each MMr, than get nothing at all.

Plus in no way did they have to take responsible for defective playfields or parts that CGC provided them to assemble.

Are Chicago Gaming and Churchill the same company?

Yes, divisions of the same.

Uhhh, even if this were all true, blaming the multi-year MMR delay on Stern is a serious stretch. Based on Rick's own posts it sounds like PPS/CGC were a PITA for Stern to deal with, with bits and pieces arriving at various times and slowing Stern's assembly process/running up against production schedules on other Stern pins. Would be interesting to know if PPS/CGC decided to go it on their own this time, or if Stern declined to continue the relationship.

We will see what level of build quality CGC can deliver. The switch to Stern for MMR production may have been the best thing for MMR purchasers -- whatever you think of Stern, Stern's employees know how to put together pinball machines, whereas CGC is a question mark for now. Speaking of which, if late-model MMRs end up being assembled directly by CGC, that would give opportunity for a direct build quality comparison between Stern and CGC.

Exactly right, and I alluded to that earlier.

I really don't disagree with what you are saying, I just think that there are people out there who are thinking differently (dreaming as you put it) and it certainly could have had an impact on your sale.

In which case, if AFMR is announced at $8k, it could actually boost the market for original AFMs! That would be an amusing turn of events.

You could look at it another way... the pinball market these days is so small and "the water is cold" that manufacturers helping each other or even colluding might only strengthen them.

I work for 20th Century Fox Filmed Entertainment, and it was a mild surprise for me to learn when first brought on board just how much the movie studios cooperate (Sony/Warner/Fox/Paramount). Now, the movie/TV business isn't "small" in terms of dollars, but in terms of the number of blockbuster movies and TV shows being produced a year is fairly small with little "head space." People will go see all the new movies (in general)--it doesn't really make sense to have brand loyalty to movie studios from a customer's perspective.

This is how I see pinball, too. You make a good game, everyone wants it--no matter what it says on the MFD. BY sticker.

I just can't see Stern helping or cooperating with Jersey Jack. Possibly with CGC because of their long standing relationship but Jack?

Never. If any of their independent contractors chose to do work for JJP, they're booted.

Ah thanks...yeah saw the clearcoat chipping but no ghosting that I am aware of. Both are bad though.

Maybe the machine, the labor and overhead have to double that.