American pinball and Pinballstar make pinball great

(Topic ID: 223382)

American pinball and Pinballstar make pinball great


By jrio101

7 months ago



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  • Latest reply 6 months ago by PtownPin
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There are 454 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 10.
#401 7 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

JJP replaces some electronics for first year!
See point #2 below.[quoted image]

The Cadillac of pinball. Color me impressed. But only for the original purchaser, and not for routed games (6 months then).

#402 7 months ago

Paper warranties mean nothing to me.
It is how companies take care of their customers.

In the end the market (based on customers) will dictate winners and losers.

#403 7 months ago
Quoted from pbwizard14:

You guys should really find another hobby. We are not talking about Toyota and vehicles people depend on to go to work or the doctor. We are talking about a game, a pass time. A little effort on a hobby you say you love and you can't do it...that's a laugh!

Yeah... OK. Keep digging that hole AP.

#404 7 months ago
Quoted from pbwizard14:

You guys should really find another hobby. We are not talking about Toyota and vehicles people depend on to go to work or the doctor. We are talking about a game, a pass time. A little effort on a hobby you say you love and you can't do it...that's a laugh!

A game and past time that costs $7,000. If I spend that much money on something and parts fail within the first few months for reasons other than normal wear and tear, I would expect it to be replaced. I understand the written warranty. But my business often goes to companies that I feel treat me right given the circumstances, even when they legally may not be required to do so.

#405 7 months ago

I'll chime in since I recently purchased Houdini that was NIB, but opened for a show demo.

When picking out the pin, all the players were on the table as options, no manufacture was out of the running, and I'm apparently one of the few that actually looked up warranties prior. So based on my decision, and also tying into the comments on this thread, here's my two cents based on home use only, not a routed game:

1) JJP has great looking games (as is Houdini), no doubt about it. And their warranty is longer. But this comes at a price. What's the delta? $2K, maybe $3K. Would you really spend another 2K for a better warranty, given everything else is the same rather than spend $95 on a node board or $2 on a FET? I wouldn't. That's just me and I understand not everyone can replace a failed part.

2) Stern: I still like Stern a lot. I think their artwork is stellar, but play fields can be rather sparse at times. However, the threads of problems are plentiful: PF problems, node boards (yes, they are being replaced fairly often at no cost, but not always), incomplete software for what appears to be years, the closed concept of the Spike system...and what I consider a big one...splitting cabinets corners that could have been avoided w/maybe $5 in better internal brackets. It was all too much in the end. Sure they might cover it, but geez...maybe it would be better if they didn't have so many problems in the first place? The lack of schematics is a concern since I can repair myself if I have a roadmap. AP uses P-ROC, which schematics were available - at least up until someone cloned the design. P-ROC was fairly big plus in my book vs. the Spike I or II.

3) Spooky: Can't say the wife is a fame of Spooky's PF's, I'm sure that will change someday. And also can't say there were any issues preventing us from getting one, just wasn't the right game at the right time.

A generic observation - not a fan of pro/prem/ce/le/vault/whatever versions. Just make a single run of a pin to keep the cost down while being able to add some 'bells and whistles" as a result - and do it at a reasonable price. Upgrades are OK w/me as long as it doesn't affect the PF (like a butter cab or shaker). I still have the mentality that things were removed to make a pro version.

So in the end, one reported (and inexpensive) node board failed. A $2 part to boot that AP even gives the part number so a DIY can repair cheaply. I looked at the plus and minus of each brand and I decided to w/Houdini. A failed node board, out of warranty whether covered or not covered by AP, would have not affected my decision.

Edit: I do want to add a warranty based on plays could be a viable option. Simple way to help assist HOU owners.

#406 7 months ago
Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

That’s what I thought. AP may want to rethink how they handle these requests in the future, but let’s not get all high and mighty on them for upholding their warranty policy on a second hand game.
And let’s stop the nonsense that Stern’s warranty is better. It isn’t, and it’s in writing.

Did anyone actually say that Stern's written warranty is better? I thought the point made 10 or 20 times in this thread now was that Stern's warranty as implemented is significantly broader than AP's written warranty, which they've stated they intend to apply as-written. I don't think there's any controversy on either of these two points.

#407 6 months ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

So in the end, one reported (and inexpensive) node board failed. A $2 part to boot that AP even gives the part number so a DIY can repair cheaply.

But don't forget, AP told the OP that a surface mount part had failed, and that the only option was to buy a new board @$95, as they had no way to replace that particular chip

They did not tell him it could be repaired for $2, that's for sure.

927400016776deeed5f4c207465d5a3da562f830.png (resized).jpg
#408 6 months ago
Quoted from BarryJ:

possibility of offering an extended warranty that would be available for anyone to buy.

Purchase an extended warranty?-Laugh out loud

AP extended warranty.jpg

#409 6 months ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Purchase an extended warranty?-Laugh out loud
[quoted image]

I don't understand. AP is offering a potential solution to this problem by extending a warranty, a solution that could very well have saved the OP in this particular situation, and "that's funny" ?

Why? Because AP isn't budging on their stance and they held their end of the warranty contract?

Have we gotten SO used to getting our way and getting things for free that when a company actually holds the line they are viewed as "monsters and greedy people who obviously don't take care of their customers"?

Someone help me understand this. Are we REALLY upset that a brand-new startup cannot just give away parts like the "big players" do because, subjectively in some people's eyes here: "It's the right thing to do" ?

The right thing to do is deal with the fact that things don't always go the way we hope and sometimes we have to just deal with it. No one to sue and no one to blame. Sometimes, bad things just happen.

In a hobby where we spend almost $6000 on the cheapest NIB option out there now and members have $50K+ collections, I'm truly blown away that this is really that big a deal.

#410 6 months ago
Quoted from NPO:

Someone help me understand this. Are we REALLY upset that a brand-new startup cannot just give away parts like the "big players" do because, subjectively in some people's eyes here: "It's the right thing to do" ?

I think most of us are upset that they told him there was no way to replace a surface mount chip, and he had to buy a $100 board.

#411 6 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I think most of us are upset that they told him there was no way to replace a surface mount chip, and he had to buy a $100 board.

Actually they said "We" have no way to replace that chip....

#412 6 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Actually they said "We" have no way to replace that chip....

Exactly.

A customer calls the manufacturer of an item, and they tell them that "we" can't replace that chip, "the ONLY thing we can do is have you replace the coil driver board" .

THAT's what I imagine most people are upset about.

#413 6 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

...and they tell them that "we" can't replace that chip

We have crossed over from the MFG supplying schematics to manufacturers' telling us not to fix things.

Brave new world

#414 6 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Exactly.
A customer calls the manufacturer of an item, and they tell them that "we" can't replace that chip, "the ONLY thing we can do is have you replace the coil driver board" .
THAT's what I imagine most people are upset about.

I'm not sure what people are most upset about, but there is what I have gleaned . . . .

Some here believe that warranty time periods should not matter at all or that it should not matter if it is 'close', but then how do you draw that line? Is it a month, two, six?. The same folks say it should be longer, but if the warranty was a year and they had an issue at 13 months, I'm pretty confident they would still feel the same, that it was 'close'. I've had, and I'm sure most of you have had, the situation were something died just out of warranty or the product was not registered within X days of purchase, and in my experience I have yet to find a company/store/distributor that sold it to me willing to step up and take care of it, at least nothing of substance.

Others here believe a warranty is a warranty, and if it has out of warranty, it is out of warranty. End of story.

Some believe the AP warranty is better than Stern and JJP, others think it is the other way.

Some believe that Stern and JJP always makes take care of issues regardless of warranty and others have said they don't.

How these things work, is not carved in stone, and with all companies, including us, there will be times where a situation calls for doing something outside of warranty. That is why there are all these different beliefs of what companies do.

As far as the driver board, based on the troubleshooting Barry did with the owner, it sounded to him that the issue was not the FET, but a more serious issue with the board. Not like Barry has dealt with a lot of issues with these boards at this point, so yes, he may have mis-diagnosed it. It was was also clear, based on the testing that the owner had limited technical skills. Accordingly the easiest and quickest way to get them back up and running was to replace the board. Keep in mind that Barry spent significant time working with him, on a machine out of warranty, so it is not like he was not getting any support on an out of warranty machine. I think the overwhelming majority of Houdini owners will say they have gotten excellent service on any issues they have had.

We do not have schematics on the Multimorphic boards, and we are very limited on what we can to do repair them. Some, including Gerry, would argue that the effort to repair, beyond a blown FET, is more costly than replacing the board (this is not a $400 board). As you all know we live in a disposable world and even if schematics were available, very few people would have the skill and desire to replace SMDs. Those who do have those skills could choose to troubleshoot and repair it themselves, but that is certainly not the norm. There are also plenty of collectors where even replacing a through hole FET is outside their skill set.

Quoted from NPO:

I don't understand. AP is offering a potential solution to this problem by extending a warranty, a solution that could very well have saved the OP in this particular situation, and "that's funny" ?

I don't understand either. You want a longer warranty and you are willing to pay for it, great, if you don't see the value, you don't. We have all dealt with this when buying everything from TVs, to appliances to cars. Sometimes you think it makes sense and sometimes you don't. Not sure we will go down this road, but if we do, some will want it and some won't. I think it is a good idea.

Bottom line, this is a classic pinside thread, where the entire thing has been blown out of proportion.

#415 6 months ago
Quoted from pbwizard14:

Barry asked the guy to contact the manufacturer of the board because its sourced. Do what you're asked to do, it serves more than one purpose. First, the source would never know that their boards might be a problem if they aren't told they fail unless they fail in mass and the manufacturer notifies them. Second, American can see if the manufacturer will stand behind their boards. If not, maybe American finds another source. To have American do the leg work verse the owner, the owner should have done it. If after I contacted the board maker and they told me to take a hike and I told American, they have the choice to leave the owner blowing in the wind or send them a new board. I understand the warranty bit, but for Pete sake, pick up the phone or email and the board maker. Had they replaced it, this post probably would not exist. They replace it and American gets a phone call telling them their source is aces. What's wrong with that?

In my opinion, that's wrong. The customer bought the machine from AP. If there's a problem, he should go back to AP. He shouldn't have to chase down where parts were sourced from.

AP needs to see the big picture. Go a little above and beyond and take care of the guy. The goodwill is going to be worth more than what they have to cough up for a replacement board, especially if you consider the repercussions from within the pinball community.

Just my .02.

#416 6 months ago
Quoted from Dooskie:

In my opinion, that's wrong. The customer bought the machine from AP. If there's a problem, he should go back to AP. He shouldn't have to chase down where parts were sourced from.

Just a point of order here, the customer did not buy the machine from AP. He bought it second hand.

#417 6 months ago
Quoted from rosh:

Some here believe that warranty time periods should not matter at all or that it should not matter if it is 'close', but then how do you draw that line? Is it a month, two, six?.

Let's say you have a Ford Mustang and the trans blows 5 months out of warranty when you are out of town. You are the 2nd owner.

You pay $2200 for a rebuilt one.

When you get back home, you write to the Ford Warranty Dispute Resolution Program, and mail in all your receipts, towing bill, photo of the odometer bla bla bla

Of course, Ford could say "Hey, it was out of warranty, rules are rules.", but Ford does not do that.

Back in the 80s they did some studies. An average happy customer tells 3 people they are happy, a customer that feels they got ripped off tells 100 people.

Ford knows that you will vent to 100 people "I bought a Mustang, and the trans blew 2 months out of warranty!!!!! I'd never buy another friggin' Ford!!! They are not built to last!!!!"

So instead, Ford reviews your case and often sends you a check. Maybe not for the entire $2200 but some odd number like $2056 (so it seems like there were actual calculations involved). Sometimes they even refund the entire amount.

Now that it seemed like Ford really bent over backwards, you will probably tell many people "Hey, I had a Ford that blew the trans, and even though it was a few months out of warranty; Ford took care of it anyway!"

In fact, often the only reason someone even knows about the Warranty Resolution is because they heard about it from someone who got help from it.

-

Where does Ford "draw the line"?

When is it too far past the warranty to get assistance?

No one knows.....

#418 6 months ago

Holy hell...this thread has been at the top of the forum all week. Barry comes in and goes double-down, and now rosh does a triple-down and drains it so he doesnt have to bother seeing how many people are now turned off to their business over $90? Hopefully AP will one day have enough money to hire a competent marketing/PR professional before many more of these situations pop up.

#419 6 months ago
Quoted from pbwizard14:

You guys should really find another hobby. We are not talking about Toyota and vehicles people depend on to go to work or the doctor. We are talking about a game, a pass time. A little effort on a hobby you say you love and you can't do it...that's a laugh!

I shouldn't have to. It's a 7000 dollar machine. You keep your expectations low, and I'll stick with the vendors that have met mine.

If my watch broke and the manufacturer told me to go to the widget maker I'd be pissed too, especially if it was only a couple weeks out of warranty.

#420 6 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Punishing the whole class because of one bad student seems like the lazy was to deal with a problem, to use a metaphor (or is it simile, I don't do grammar) other than a cargument.

Can't agree here. I understand your dislike of this... but as the owner of the IP it's Multimorphic's right to do as he pleases.
I do think there is a happy medium somewhere; but It's up to Multimorphic to decide what's best for their business and customers.

Last time I looked at Stern's schematics (STLE); the CPU board wasn't documented, IIRC.

#421 6 months ago
Quoted from BarryJ:

I informed the OP that I could send him a replacement board, all he had to do was enter a Service Ticket and register his game so I could ship out under warranty. OP registered the game and submitted a Service Ticket. At that time, I learned the game was 6 weeks outside of warranty with no other prior failures of that board or game, I informed the OP he would need to purchase the board and provided him with 3 places to buy the board.

Sorry this is why I have issue with your explanation.

You told him you'd replace the board.... then after he did what you asked; you back-tracked quoting the warranty?!
Sorry; but just because you state a warranty... you should be understanding that this is a 7k machine... Nitpicking the owner over a 2.50cent FET or a $95/board is just stupid.

*I* personally won't be buying any of your future games until you learn how to appropriately support your customers (as PinStar did)... hiding behind your written warranty on a board which IMHO was a infant mortality issue is just not representative of me supporting you with my Pin$.

#422 6 months ago

One point I don't see made.

Houdini is AP's very first machine.

If I'm thinking of buying a company's first machine, reliability and how problems are supported will be high on the list of concerns.

Even though it seems like AP provides good customer service and they aren't using in-house electronics, the way this was handled is not a good look, IMO.

#423 6 months ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Can't agree here. I understand your dislike of this... but as the owner of the IP it's Multimorphic's right to do as he pleases.

There are hundreds of circuit board cloning services in Taiwan and China.

You send them a populated board and 1 week latter they send you the Protel files, component list and schematic - cheap.

#424 6 months ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Even though it seems like AP provides good customer service and they aren't using in-house electronics, the way this was handled is not a good look, IMO.

Using out-house electronics is a very good thing, in my eyes (think of all us OPs who had no fear of buying SS Stern games, because they used the same boards as Bally did).

#425 6 months ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Can't agree here. I understand your dislike of this... but as the owner of the IP it's Multimorphic's right to do as he pleases.
I do think there is a happy medium somewhere; but It's up to Multimorphic to decide what's best for their business and customers.
Last time I looked at Stern's schematics (STLE); the CPU board wasn't documented, IIRC.

I get the explanation and don't have any real experience with the Multimorphic team at all, I did feel more confident buying Houdini knowing some of their boards are in it though because I think it's better than it being a one-off from a completely new manufacturer that I may have zero chance of getting replacements or components for if they don't make it (Heighway Pinball comes to mind immediately). However I also thought they published schematics for their boards at the time, again I get their explanation for why they don't but as part of the broader trend to no longer supply those schematics I really don't like it. I'd also say that their response of "the cost to troubleshoot beyond that point is not worth it and just buy another $95 board" (I paraphrased that) is a bit self-serving since it's their $95 board I'd be buying.

Again, I'm not singling out Multimorphic here and my comments were part of a discussion about the trend in the industry to no longer supply schematics. There aren't that many components on those boards so anyone really intent on copying the hardware could do so anyway, it hurts the hobbyist and operators the most IMO.

#426 6 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You send them a populated board and 1 week latter they send you the Protel files, component list and schematic - cheap.

Which is why more and more Vendors will likely incorporate encrypted soft IP in their designs which renders the whole design useless. This is why we find ourselves in this position... people stealing other peoples work for the sole purpose of cutting them out.

But I digress... different topic for another thread.

#427 6 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Holy hell...this thread has been at the top of the forum all week. Barry comes in and goes double-down, and now rosh does a triple-down and drains it so he doesnt have to bother seeing how many people are now turned off to their business over $90? Hopefully AP will one day have enough money to hire a competent marketing/PR professional before many more of these situations pop up.

Agreed, I went from on the fence to totally out. I honestly don’t care what their next games are as I’m not interested. This is their first game, and if they don’t want to work with customers proving they are in this for the long haul, then fine.

#428 6 months ago
Quoted from tacshose:

Agreed, I went from on the fence to totally out. I honestly don’t care what their next games are as I’m not interested. This is their first game, and if they don’t want to work with customers proving they are in this for the long haul, then fine.

Stern would not give me a plastic for one of my games that was out of warranty once. The game was still in production too. No one heard about this because I didn't feel that it was worthy of stating a thread over. Those that find AP unacceptable for not replacing the 95 dollar part and will not buy an AP game because of this, may want to put Stern on their shit list as well. I still bought an Iron Maiden after the fact and I didn't loose any sleep over it. Those of you who are taking this to another level with AP may want to cease buying Stern games as well.

#429 6 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Let's say you have a Ford Mustang and the trans blows 5 months out of warranty when you are out of town. You are the 2nd owner.
You pay $2200 for a rebuilt one.
When you get back home, you write to the Ford Warranty Dispute Resolution Program, and mail in all your receipts, towing bill, photo of the odometer bla bla bla
Of course, Ford could say "Hey, it was out of warranty, rules are rules.", but Ford does not do that.
Back in the 80s they did some studies. An average happy customer tells 3 people they are happy, a customer that feels they got ripped off tells 100 people.
Ford knows that you will vent to 100 people "I bought a Mustang, and the trans blew 2 months out of warranty!!!!! I'd never buy another friggin' Ford!!! They are not built to last!!!!"
So instead, Ford reviews your case and often sends you a check. Maybe not for the entire $2200 but some odd number like $2056 (so it seems like there were actual calculations involved). Sometimes they even refund the entire amount.
Now that it seemed like Ford really bent over backwards, you will probably tell many people "Hey, I had a Ford that blew the trans, and even though it was a few months out of warranty; Ford took care of it anyway!"
In fact, often the only reason someone even knows about the Warranty Resolution is because they heard about it from someone who got help from it.
-
Where does Ford "draw the line"?
When is it too far past the warranty to get assistance?
No one knows.....

Ok, lesson learned. Buy Stern Mustang.

#430 6 months ago
Quoted from Strummy:

Stern would not give me a plastic for one of my games that was out of warranty once. The game was still in production too. No one heard about this because I didn't feel that it was worthy of stating a thread over. Those that find AP unacceptable for not replacing the 95 dollar part and will not buy an AP game because of this, may want to put Stern on their shit list as well. I still bought an Iron Maiden after the fact and I didn't loose any sleep over it. Those of you who are taking this to another level with AP may want to cease buying Stern games as well.

Not doubting you but how many companies Warranty wear and tear of rubbers, playfield plasics, or bulbs inside or out of warranty? I can see if it was broken on arrival but not seeing your point unless its a re-direct to put the flame of this on a new company? I to have broken plastics most times simply waxing the playfield but I never considered calling Any manufacturer to cover my use of the product. Glad you ended up with IM though, fun shooter would be sad to miss out because you were slighted by a broken plastic....

#431 6 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Not doubting you but how many companies Warranty wear and tear of rubbers, playfield plasics, or bulbs inside or out of warranty?....

I believe the point was people were making a blanket statement that Stern was covering problems outside of warranty. Strum, from 1st hand experience, said that was not always the case.

Gets back to the comment: "When should a company make a 'good will gesture' and replace outside of the warranty period?" Strum didn't mention rubber wear and tear, it was about broken plastic. That's an important difference. I should add AP includes extra plastics in the goodie bag for just for that occurrence.

Not looking to stir the pot, but plastics not covered on a newer machine falls into the same category as the OP's comments.

#432 6 months ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

I believe the point was people were making a blanket statement that Stern was covering problems outside of warranty. Strum, from 1st hand experience, said that was not always the case.
Gets back to the comment: "When should a company make a 'good will gesture' and replace outside of the warranty period?" Strum didn't mention rubber wear and tear, it was about broken plastic. That's an important difference. I should add AP includes extra plastics in the goodie bag for just for that occurrence.
Not looking to stir the pot, but plastics not covered on a newer machine falls into the same category as the OP's comments.

Exactly

#433 6 months ago

Wait, are you saying the pin company wont sell you the new part? I read that they were told to call the manufacturer if they wanted to get it fixed but they would sell them a new board.

#434 6 months ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Wait, are you saying the pin company wont sell you the new part? I read that they were told to call the manufacturer if they wanted to get it fixed but they would sell them a new board.

The pin company might not have every part for boards that they buy assembled and use in their machines.

LTG : )

#435 6 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

The pin company might not have every part for boards that they buy assembled and use in their machines.
LTG : )

Correct. And no one should expect AP to stock every little part laying inside a machine.

Try that expectation with your new $50,000.00 car. Some transistor goes bad inside some black box and the car maker will sell you a new black box. For $300.00.

#436 6 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Correct. And no one should expect AP to stock every little part laying inside a machine.
Try that expectation with your new $50,000.00 car. Some transistor goes bad inside some black box and the car maker will sell you a new black box. For $300.00.

Cargument 101.

#437 6 months ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Wait, are you saying the pin company wont sell you the new part? I read that they were told to call the manufacturer if they wanted to get it fixed but they would sell them a new board.

No that wasn't the case. In this case AP did have the board to sell. They also referred him to pinballlife for board. AP was guiding him to see if manufacturer had it covered on there end of warranty.

#438 6 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Correct. And no one should expect AP to stock every little part laying inside a machine.
Try that expectation with your new $50,000.00 car. Some transistor goes bad inside some black box and the car maker will sell you a new black box. For $300.00.

your kidding right? If your manufacturing games then you should have ample supply of parts to address warranty and maintenance issues. Its the cost of doing business.

#439 6 months ago
Quoted from tamoore:

Cargument 101.

If the Cargument doesn't work for you, try refrigerators and washing machines.

#440 6 months ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Wait, are you saying the pin company wont sell you the new part? I read that they were told to call the manufacturer if they wanted to get it fixed but they would sell them a new board.

Quoted from LTG:

The pin company might not have every part for boards that they buy assembled and use in their machines.
LTG : )

Quoted from cottonm4:

Correct. And no one should expect AP to stock every little part laying inside a machine.
Try that expectation with your new $50,000.00 car. Some transistor goes bad inside some black box and the car maker will sell you a new black box. For $300.00.

Quoted from PtownPin:

your kidding right? If your manufacturing games then you should have ample supply of parts to address warranty and maintenance issues. Its the cost of doing business.

Perhaps you did not read far enough up the chain. Waaaaaay back up there it was established that the unit was out of warranty. If warranty was a consideration, the company is only going to send you a completed circuit board. The pinball maker is not going to stock every pea-wad part of the many many many parts that make up a circuit board. Why would you expect it to?

#441 6 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Perhaps you did not read far enough up the chain. Waaaaaay back up there it was established that the unit was out of warranty. If warranty was a consideration, the company is only going to send you a completed circuit board. The pinball maker is not going to stock every pea-wad part of the many many many parts that make up a circuit board. Why would you expect it to?

Agree they wouldn't stock individual circuit board parts, but they certainly should have a replacement program. Remove and return your damaged one, and they send u a new one..they repair the board and then put it back in stock ....pretty typical in this industry..

#442 6 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Remove and return your damaged one, and they send u a new one..they repair the board and then put it back in stock ....pretty typical in this industry..

Sorry. I had not heard of this replace and return policy in the pinball industry. I cannot see the percentages in an R&R for a $95.00 circuit board other than to keep the damaged unit from being repaired for a cheap spare.

A long time ago I was hanging out the the local Harley-Davidson dealership. The Harley Rep was there. In the parking lot. With a sledgehammer. Standing at a pile of defective parts leftover from warranty work. The parts were broken but many were repairable. I had a lot of repaired parts on my old Harley. He started swinging that sledgehammer. I almost cried. But there was no way H-D was going to take a chance of screwing with its market for aftermarket sales of parts.

#443 6 months ago

Ok. No you can’t expect them to carry anything except the finished boards.

I think the warrrantees on new pins are bullshit especially a 3 month warranty. They may as well not have one. That being said you know what you are getting so suck it up and buy the board and play your game then send the old one to someone to fix it.

#444 6 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Sorry. I had not heard of this replace and return policy in the pinball industry. I cannot see the percentages in an R&R for a $95.00 circuit board other than to keep the damaged unit from being repaired for a cheap spare.
A long time ago I was hanging out the the local Harley-Davidson dealership. The Harley Rep was there. In the parking lot. With a sledgehammer. Standing at a pile of defective parts leftover from warranty work. The parts were broken but many were repairable. I had a lot of repaired parts on my old Harley. He started swinging that sledgehammer. I almost cried. But there was no way H-D was going to take a chance of screwing with its market for aftermarket sales of parts.

Its exactly what JJP and Stern do....I've been down that road several times....

#445 6 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

Sorry. I had not heard of this replace and return policy in the pinball industry. I cannot see the percentages in an R&R for a $95.00 circuit board other than to keep the damaged unit from being repaired for a cheap spare.
.

Standard procedure at JJP, they send you a board and you return the damaged one once the new one is installed. A great way to handle maintenance actually.

#446 6 months ago

There sure is a lot of people in this thread that are never going to buy an American Pinball game now that were never going to in the first place.

#447 6 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

There sure is a lot of people in this thread that are never going to buy an American Pinball game now that were never going to in the first place.

I'm considering buying a Houdini actually but I want to lay my fingers on #JJPOTC first before making a choice. There's a Houdini close to where I live and I put coins in it more often than I thought I would, it's an engaging game but also a very hard one which can be a hit or miss for long term huo.

#448 6 months ago

You gotta be kidding me OP. You bought a product and since a repair is past the warranty, you publicly whine about it? It's time to man up, pay the 85 bucks and shut down this thread. This is a really shitty thing to do to a company. Really Shitty.

#449 6 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

You gotta be kidding me OP. You bought a product and since a repair is past the warranty, you publicly whine about it? It's time to man up, pay the 85 bucks and shut down this thread. This is a really shitty thing to do to a company. Really Shitty.

There are many more pricks in this world than good guys.

#450 6 months ago
Quoted from kklank:

You gotta be kidding me OP. You bought a product and since a repair is past the warranty, you publicly whine about it? It's time to man up, pay the 85 bucks and shut down this thread. This is a really shitty thing to do to a company. Really Shitty.

You are missing the bigger picture.

No one would have ever known about the warranty length and how rigidly it is interpreted.

No one would have ever known about the repair advice given when you call for assistance.

No one would have ever known the warranty only applies to the first owner.

(sure you can say "well they could read the warranty", but what a company puts on paper, and what they actually do when you call for help - are two very different things)

Everyone has owned a few Stern or JJP games, so we have tons of data points and know what happens when we call for guidance.

AP is totally new, so 99% of Pinsiders have no experience with their tech help or warranty.

This thread is SUPER valuable to everyone on Pinside.

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