American pinball and Pinballstar make pinball great

(Topic ID: 223382)

American pinball and Pinballstar make pinball great


By jrio101

6 months ago



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  • Latest reply 5 months ago by PtownPin
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There are 454 posts in this topic. You are on page 7 of 10.
#301 6 months ago
Quoted from Captain-Flint:

This just encourages whiny babies to ignore the warranty that was issued and ask for freebies. No he should not have gotten anything from AP. Why because he cried on a forum? That is not how the real world works.

Yep as I said Life ain’t fair.

#302 6 months ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

They will help since their electronics are covered for 3 years.

I have a sticky caliper that's out of warranty. I'm sure they'll hook me up if I bitch and moan enough. I'll go on a Toyota forum and try to make them look bad for not giving me something for nothing. I'm sure that they will be understanding even though I am not the original owner and the warranty is expired.

#303 6 months ago

....or wait. I'll just buy it myself since that's the way things work.

#304 6 months ago
Quoted from Strummy:

I have a sticky caliper that's out of warranty. I'm sure they'll hook me up if I bitch and moan enough. I'll go on a Toyota forum and try to make them look bad for not giving me something for nothing. I'm sure that they will be understanding even though I am not the original owner and the warranty is expired.

Toyota Warranty is transferable

Secondly if that warranty was 3 years and 1 day - I’m sure you would say to Toyota shop just bill me.

#306 6 months ago

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#307 6 months ago

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#308 6 months ago

OP - this is the message back from AP - clean up your own s@&t!

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#309 6 months ago

He can do that?

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#310 6 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

My point is, if I have to learn all this board repair that you’ve known for the past 40 years, then current OPs are going to have to learn this stuff. It’s no different.

You need a whole new set of specialized equipment, magnification, good eyesight, and steady hands to deal with these incredibly tiny parts. Most people don't have all that.

SMD boards are not field serviceable. They are designed for ease of manufacturing--that's it. It's a cost saving measure on the manufacturing side.

If you use a hot air station to remove a component, that's probably not the only part you'll end up removing. The components are packed so tightly together that most people will end up causing damage in the surrounding area of the board.

While most people can fumble their way through soldering a through-hole component, only a small fraction of people will be able to work on SMD boards.

Think of all the pinball board repair services you are aware of. Then take away 3/4 of them. What's left is about how many repair services you will have who *might* be able to handle only a few SMD boards (that have schematics available) in the coming years.

Quoted from chuckwurt:

Or have extra boards to drop in so they can go back and service the bad one.

Quoted from vid1900:

And then you have to worry about having the current board version.

"Wait, I have v1.1 board, are you saying that won't work???"
"Unfortunately, that game takes v2.2 or higher boards, although not higher than v4, because that's when the pinout changed...."

Quoted from vid1900:

If games would have required us to buy new boards every time they broke down, pinball would have been over in the 70s

Location games take a beating. The games I service on location need minor repairs about every other week. If I had to replace a board every time something went wrong, a game would turn into a money pit really quick. On top of that, it takes years to earn back the cost of a game. Not 3 months. It needs to be in service for *years*. A game less than a year old would be in the dump so quickly after a handful of board replacements. And the few operators who actually still buy pins would stop buying them entirely just because of the high expense of maintaining them and the low earnings.

So, if locations can't do field repairs easily and economically, they're going to move on to other games.

Then there's the home market--if owners can't do repairs easily and economically, they're also going to move on to other games.

What's left after that?

Heck, some new owners are scared away from ownership about the prospect of changing a bulb. If I tell them it's going to cost $100-$400 just in parts each time something goes wrong, they are going to look elsewhere and avoid pin ownership.

Yeah, it's a little bit gloom & doom, but the reason why games that survived did was that they could be repaired by almost anyone with a basic set of tools.

#311 6 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

An electronic component failing could happen to any pinball manufacturer.

For sure, but that could also just be the symptom. Possible root causes:

- A weak transistor or other component (though in normal operation they usually either fail quickly or never at all)
- A bad crimp/solder connection
- A partially broken wire in the machine or trace on the board
- A screw or something shorted out the circuit momentarily
- Poor button alignment causing the flipper to re-energize repeated due to vibration
- Faulty coil
- Something in software that caused the coil to drive too hard

FETs can and do die sometimes, usually because of some other system event. The weirdest I've seen is when a single strand of coil wire bridged the gap to another lug. Luckily the coil was visible when it happened (because we were testing flipper assemblies). The strand of wire turned bright red and then disappeared, and it took out the FET on the driver board. Since the strand was gone, it never caused another problem. That's likely not the issue here because Houdini uses lugless coils.

Unless the problem happens again, we'll probably never know the root case.

- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com

#312 6 months ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

THEN, I came on Pinside for the day, not even knowing there was a post here... and saw the 2nd buyer who I did not know was Jason Rioux, who has bought a game from me in the past.. I have no idea if Jason would buy more games or not, and don't care, but he was a total pleasure to deal with.. .So I have Jim my original / regular customer and now Justin who I know and is a customer both involved in this... So... Justin, PinballSTAR is sending you a check for $ 95. I'm not sure if I'm opening up a can of worms as this can't be done in all cases and I'm not sure if AP will be upset with me, but I've got two customers I like and I'm making this right and ending it.

You get a tip of the hat from me

#313 6 months ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Hello all, this comes to screeching halt right here...
I was the distributor that sold the game to first buyer... I have nothing to do with the 2nd owner on this Houdini. I just got notified of this this AM by an email from my initial customer here:
Joe,
I recently traded my Houdini with a friend and shortly after he set it up a flipper driver board failed. He contacted American Pinball and they wouldn’t cover the defective board under warranty which is apparently only 90 days. I know you take great care in deciding who to distribute for, but this seems ridiculous to me. I’m not writing this expecting it will change the outcome of their decision. I just wanted you to know. Again, this is nothing against you Joe. You are one of the best in the Hobby.
Jim
My reply with echoes the sentiments of many - on BOTH sides... I get it, but AP technically did nothing wrong here and there are reasons rules are rules and why it's on page 3 of the manual.
Jim :
That's the warranty - actually it's 90 days with most all companies... some are even 60 on the electronic stuff. Additionally some companies will not warranty even under the time frame for a 2nd owner - initial owner only. Now that said that's how the warranty reads and what I have to repeat... AP is no different in their terms than any other and actually offer longer time frames for the electronic stuff than others. I will reach out to see if there is any wiggle room - sometimes these companies won't budge because it's the old, if they do it for one, they have to do it for everyone and the warranty timelines become worthless. I do know that if a company has a 'known' problem with something like say the JJP light boards where it is an across the board problem or Stern's node boards, those timelines get ignored and the issues are taken care of because it's a design issue that is inherent with every part in every game. I do see both points, but that's the warranty they are just adhering to what it is. I'll reach out and get back, I owe you that much.
Joe
So... I emailed AP, no reply yet...
THEN, I came on Pinside for the day, not even knowing there was a post here... and saw the 2nd buyer who I did not know was Jason Rioux, who has bought a game from me in the past.. I have no idea if Jason would buy more games or not, and don't care, but he was a total pleasure to deal with.. .So I have Jim my original / regular customer and now Justin who I know and is a customer both involved in this... So... Justin, PinballSTAR is sending you a check for $ 95. I'm not sure if I'm opening up a can of worms as this can't be done in all cases and I'm not sure if AP will be upset with me, but I've got two customers I like and I'm making this right and ending it.
I will echo that the folks at AP are AMAZINGLY caring folks... From ownership / management to design team to programmers to tech support - top to bottom these people care to do that right thing for their customers and the community.. .I've seen it over and over. If they didn't I wouldn't be saying so. So as many of you came to their defense, they didn't do anything wrong here. But the timing of it just over the warranty and the fact I know both these folks and I made money on this transaction makes me feel I owe it to put this one to bed.
Love and kisses to all... All is fine here - go pet a puppy or something today no need for negativity... Case closed here... I think I'll even send Jason a Houdini Tshirt and a tote bag ! : )
Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements
Sales@PinballSTAR.com

Smartest man in this thread......Joe is a pinball star and he just showed us why!

#314 6 months ago
Quoted from Arcadebrothers:

Was there a TSB on them?

Yes

#315 6 months ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

You need a whole new set of specialized equipment, magnification, good eyesight, and steady hands to deal with these incredibly tiny parts.

I really don't mean to stir the pot here Force...but unless it's a 'lots of pins' IC, it's not bad at all. Actually easier a fair amount of time since you don't need to worry about damaging vias. Having two soldering irons is a must, with appropriate tips makes it very easy. Do it almost everyday and don't even give it a passing thought.

Good eyesight or a magnifier and steady hands is a must - no doubt about it!

I do think people get scared when the magical word 'SMD' is tossed out. A lot of times it's unjustified. With simple parts (resistors, caps, 3, 4, or 5 leaded parts.. use a couple of soldering irons and it's easy. I'd much rather remove SMD than a thru hole anyday.

The spacing really isn't an issue. The 'pick and place' machines need a minimal amount of space to place the the parts. When I do a layout in my line of work - I'd love to shove everything closer together, but the design rules forces the drafting guys to space things farther apart.

A ball grid array? OK a whole new level of complexity!

#316 6 months ago
Quoted from MightyGrave:

Disagree!
Btw. JJP hasn't installed reliable LED boards in WOZ ECLE which all know.... And the customer has to pay for a defective board after warranty.
For the ledboards they build fix with the V2 ledboard kit - thats pretty cool but 800$+
critism? No it's holy JJP....
A new Pinball company with a good pricy Pinball get a shit storm because they holds on to their rights???... Omg the End of the world....
I got the feeling that some pinsiders are disrespectful and feel strong only while the internet offers anonymity....
Judging someone or something without knowing the background or the facts is just not the fine way... But the smart ones will know how to rate this thread .... the naysayers can stay in their little cosmos
Hope AP has the possibility to improve the warranty in the future.

Most people have selective amnesia about this....

#317 6 months ago

The most valuable information in this thread is that you’re basically on your own when electronic components in brand new American Pinball machines break 3-6 months after purchase.

The warranty is the warranty, I wouldn’t demand anything above that. Kind of tacky. Although I’m thankful to the OP for the info on what to expect with AP products and service. I never really read warranties, so extra clarity around expectations is good.

#318 6 months ago
Quoted from Join_The_Cirqus:

Joe pinballstar is the best!!
Buy with confidence, hands down!

+1 pinballstar rocks!!

33
#319 6 months ago
Quoted from mcbPalisade:

They can take all the time they want including forever. I know they "live" on this site though.

I certainly don't live on this site, but I certainly try to keep tabs as best I can, and bend over backwards whenever I can to help someone. I happen to be out town dropping my daughter off at college for her freshmen year, and have not been online for a couple of days. Considering how much Barry and I are on the site, and how quick we jump in to help someone, nights, weekends, etc. I find this and other similar comments made in this thread to be offensive and uncalled for.

At this point I don't know the whole story, but I can say a few things . . .

I believe this is the first time an owner has had this type of a complaint with our service and support, and look at how many people were so quick to jump into this thread. Amazing how many strong and definitive opinions people have who don't know the facts, but are ready to make huge declarations as we'll as seeing so many posts from folks who have never shown any previous interest in AP or Houdini and seem to know very little about us, but are happy to join the frenzy. Shows how some members of this community are all about tearing things down, which is always easier then building things up. People wonder why manufactures aren't more active on pinside, I give you exhibit A.

Joe Newhart is a great guy and is clearly going above and beyond and I as a member of the community I appreciate him doing that. As Joe indicated it is a slippery slope. We have a lot of great distributors and I am happy to have Joe among them, and he knows that.

I can say with confidence the code update issue he was experiencing had nothing to do with the board issue. As the OP indicated, we gave him a ton of support working through that issue. In fact, I was emailing with him at the same time I was loading up the SUV and getting ready to hit the road.

FETs on the driver board, as Gerry has indicated, are through hole and are not difficult to replace, but at the point I don't know exactly what the issue with the board is. Not like we have dealt with a ton of board issues.

Sorry if I am coming off as a jerk in these comments, but, those who have been following us and see how we go about doing things, understand my frustration and anger at seeing a thread like this.

#320 6 months ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

I see the word "pre-driver" being called out as the problem here, but I suspect that's just the wrong word being used. It's more than likely just the FET, which is through-hole. Any standard PCB repair person could swap one out in minutes. I highly recommend pinside user borygard for all of your circuit board repairs.
- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com

hi Gerry,
board has been repaired by me.

#321 6 months ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Hello all, this comes to screeching halt right here...
I was the distributor that sold the game to first buyer... I have nothing to do with the 2nd owner on this Houdini. I just got notified of this this AM by an email from my initial customer here:
Joe,
I recently traded my Houdini with a friend and shortly after he set it up a flipper driver board failed. He contacted American Pinball and they wouldn’t cover the defective board under warranty which is apparently only 90 days. I know you take great care in deciding who to distribute for, but this seems ridiculous to me. I’m not writing this expecting it will change the outcome of their decision. I just wanted you to know. Again, this is nothing against you Joe. You are one of the best in the Hobby.
Jim
My reply with echoes the sentiments of many - on BOTH sides... I get it, but AP technically did nothing wrong here and there are reasons rules are rules and why it's on page 3 of the manual.
Jim :
That's the warranty - actually it's 90 days with most all companies... some are even 60 on the electronic stuff. Additionally some companies will not warranty even under the time frame for a 2nd owner - initial owner only. Now that said that's how the warranty reads and what I have to repeat... AP is no different in their terms than any other and actually offer longer time frames for the electronic stuff than others. I will reach out to see if there is any wiggle room - sometimes these companies won't budge because it's the old, if they do it for one, they have to do it for everyone and the warranty timelines become worthless. I do know that if a company has a 'known' problem with something like say the JJP light boards where it is an across the board problem or Stern's node boards, those timelines get ignored and the issues are taken care of because it's a design issue that is inherent with every part in every game. I do see both points, but that's the warranty they are just adhering to what it is. I'll reach out and get back, I owe you that much.
Joe
So... I emailed AP, no reply yet...
THEN, I came on Pinside for the day, not even knowing there was a post here... and saw the 2nd buyer who I did not know was Jason Rioux, who has bought a game from me in the past.. I have no idea if Jason would buy more games or not, and don't care, but he was a total pleasure to deal with.. .So I have Jim my original / regular customer and now Justin who I know and is a customer both involved in this... So... Justin, PinballSTAR is sending you a check for $ 95. I'm not sure if I'm opening up a can of worms as this can't be done in all cases and I'm not sure if AP will be upset with me, but I've got two customers I like and I'm making this right and ending it.
I will echo that the folks at AP are AMAZINGLY caring folks... From ownership / management to design team to programmers to tech support - top to bottom these people care to do that right thing for their customers and the community.. .I've seen it over and over. If they didn't I wouldn't be saying so. So as many of you came to their defense, they didn't do anything wrong here. But the timing of it just over the warranty and the fact I know both these folks and I made money on this transaction makes me feel I owe it to put this one to bed.
Love and kisses to all... All is fine here - go pet a puppy or something today no need for negativity... Case closed here... I think I'll even send Jason a Houdini Tshirt and a tote bag ! : )
Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements
Sales@PinballSTAR.com

Exactly how to handle customer problems
I would do the same!

Pincades
JT

#322 6 months ago

What I learned from this thread that is very important to me is that American Pinball has a 90 day warranty instead of a year, like other manufacturers. I did not know about their warranty, but now that I do it will change my opinion. Everyone is saying it should not be covered because it is the second owner and not original owner- who gives a shit? I have had an issue as a second owner on an Avengers LE machine and JJ (Game Exchange) sent out a tech to fix my machine with no problems or questions. The fact is the machine is less than a year old, and not having warranty or support is a big deal. I find it interesting that this is the second thread that the op has been pressured to change the title to protect American pinball's reputation?

Please do not take my comments in the wrong context. I want American Pinball to succeed and I would like to support them sometime in the future. I want to grow pinball, and I respect all of the hard work that goes into trying to produce a pinball machine. At the same time I am really service oriented and to me a 90 day warranty is simply unacceptable and it will deter me in wanting to support or purchase from a company with such a policy.

I would recommend American Pinball review their warranty period policy if they would like to earn my business.

ps-I want to thank the op for starting this thread and helping bring this to light. Knowledge is power

#323 6 months ago
Quoted from Strummy:

Yep. I'm going to call Toyota and see if they will do the same for me.

You wouldn't believe me if I told you how much dealers spend a month on this very same thing.

It's in the tens of thousands of dollars.

#324 6 months ago
Quoted from pinmister:

What I learned from this thread that is very important to me is that American Pinball has a 90 day warranty instead of a year, like other manufacturers. I did not know about their warranty, but now that I do it will change my opinion. Everyone is saying it should not be covered because it is the second owner and not original owner- who gives a shit? I have had an issue as a second owner on an Avengers LE machine and JJ (Game Exchange) sent out a tech to fix my machine with no problems or questions. The fact is the machine is less than a year old, and not having warranty or support is a big deal. I find it interesting that this is the second thread that the op has been pressured to change the title to protect American pinball's reputation?
Please do not take my comments in the wrong context. I want American Pinball to succeed and I would like to support them sometime in the future. I want to grow pinball, and I respect all of the hard work that goes into trying to produce a pinball machine. At the same time I am really service oriented and to me a 90 day warranty is simply unacceptable and it will deter me in wanting to support or purchase from a company with such a policy.
I would recommend American Pinball review their warranty period policy if they would like to earn my business.
ps-I want to thank the op for starting this thread and helping bring this to light. Knowledge is power

I guess you aren’t buying Sterns then either because their warranty is 60 days on some components.

The photo is from the Iron Maiden Manual. AP offers a longer warranty.

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#325 6 months ago

What the heck... I'll add my takeaways and perspectives to this thread.

If I had a four month old pin with a breakdown, and I had to pay for replacement parts, I'd probably be pretty upset... No matter what owner number I was. What I wouldn't have done is rushed to pinside so quickly to trash AP. I would have tried to work with the original owner and escalate things at AP to see if we could reach an agreement.

I feel a three month warranty is pretty short on a brand new, $7000 machine, but it is what it is. Learning about their 90 day warranty was new to me, and helpful to know...

I've followed a lot of AP threads on here, and they seem nothing but amazing - especially impressed by the time and commitment of Rosh. I definitely don't think AP deserves any bashing in this situation.

And as all others have said, Joe at PinballStar is the bomb.

Lessons learned, hopefully...

#326 6 months ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

I guess you aren’t buying Sterns then either because their warranty is 60 days on some components.

I support Stern because they have always taken care of me. I have a lot of machines and so sometimes when I purchase a new machine it will take me months to put considerable plays on it. Having a year warranty on most components gives me reassurance that when I spend $5600+ on a machine that I am being covered.

#327 6 months ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I support Stern because they have always taken care of me. I have a lot of machines and so sometimes when I purchase a new machine it will take me months to put considerable plays on it. Having a year warranty on most components gives me reassurance that when I spend $5600+ on a machine that I am being covered.

Stern doesn’t give you a year warranty. See above. How do you know as the original purchase that AP wouldn’t do the same thing? Have you seen the support they provide in the Houdini thread?

16
#328 6 months ago

What I learned from this thread is that if you piss and moan loud enough and get enough internet trolls to fan the flames that most people will just pay you to go away.

I understand why it happens but rewarding people for their crappy behavior is not what should happen. I see it all the time though. At my business we treat people right but we are not going to reward a bad client. That time and effort is spent on the good clients.

Pinball machines break, it was out of the warranty that you agreed too when you bought the game. Sure, it sucks, you got unlucky. That's part of the risk of buying from a newer company. Spend the $95 and stop trying to bash a company for following through on exactly what they promised.

#329 6 months ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

Stern doesn’t give you a year warranty. See above. How do you know as the original purchase that AP wouldn’t do the same thing? Have you seen the support they provide in the Houdini thread?

Ok point taken, I guess Stern's warranty in writing says one thing but what they actually do is another. I will be watching closely, I have not been following Houdini thread. I have lost interest because of the game's geometry. Hopefully American Pinball #2 is steller and I look forward to see what they do.

-6
#330 6 months ago

(First sentence edited by moderator). People jump on bandwagons by reading one off situations and believe it is happening everywhere all the time without doing any research on their own. LAZY and MISINFORMED. Most of the warranties are 60 days or less for most parts of a machine, including JJP. JJP has a 1 year warranty on their A/V board, CPU, monitor, and driver board and a 30 day warranty on everything else to the original owner if it is HUO . Parts that are high failure after distribution are probably replaced well after warranty because they are a known high failure part and the company has lots of them available and has prepared to replace those parts. Did the owner contact the maker of the board as AP recommended since it is a board they source? If the owner did and the board maker didn't offer to replace it, then AP should have probably been informed by the owner so AP could 1. replace the board themselves and 2. think about finding another source for their needs since this one will not stand behind THEIR board after a short time with the possibility of more boards going down within 6 months. I would have done what AP asked me to do and contact the board manufacturer and depending on that conversation gotten back to AP before starting this thread. Other people on here don't have any idea how long a warranty on their NIB game is and are assuming it is for 1 year or 3 years or 5 years and everything is covered. Better start doing some homework before popping off, you look as stupid as your posts when others look into what you claim and it's WRONG.

#331 6 months ago
Quoted from brucipher:

What the heck... I'll add my takeaways and perspectives to this thread.
If I had a four month old pin with a breakdown, and I had to pay for replacement parts, I'd probably be pretty upset... No matter what owner number I was. What I wouldn't have done is rushed to pinside so quickly to trash AP. I would have tried to work with the original owner and escalate things at AP to see if we could reach an agreement.
I feel a three month warranty is pretty short on a brand new, $7000 machine, but it is what it is. Learning about their 90 day warranty was new to me, and helpful to know...
I've followed a lot of AP threads on here, and they seem nothing but amazing - especially impressed by the time and commitment of Rosh. I definitely don't think AP deserves any bashing in this situation.
And as all others have said, Joe at PinballStar is the bomb.
Lessons learned, hopefully...

Do you know what other manufactures warranties are on their NIB machines? I would like to know what you know about the other NIB machines and pinball makers.

#332 6 months ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Ok point taken, I guess Stern's warranty in writing says one thing but what they actually do is another. I will be watching closely, I have not been following Houdini thread. I have lost interest because of the game's geometry. Hopefully American Pinball #2 is steller and I look forward to see what they do.

I agree on the handling. Stern does a great job from what I have heard. IMO, this may have been handled differently if the OP was the original purchaser. There is something to be said for buying new. For example, If you remember, Stern would only replace playfields on GB if you were the original owner.

I too am looking forward to ap number 2 and what Stern brings out later this year. More Pinball manufacturers are good for the hobby.

#333 6 months ago
Quoted from pbwizard14:

Do you know what other manufactures warranties are on their NIB machines? I would like to know what you know about the other NIB machines and pinball makers.

See sterns above.

#334 6 months ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

this may have been handled differently

I agree it may have been handled differently, thankfully distributor stepped up to the bat. I remember JJP and Jack practically pulling his hair out with all the board failures on the early run WOZ's, Jack knew customer service was key to his success. He lost a considerable amount of money getting the issues corrected. He made an investment back into the company's future. Original owner or second owner, imo-it should be evaluated by the manufacturer date. Take care of your customers and they will take care of you.

#335 6 months ago

I'm curious, since it keeps coming up, why would the owner affect a warranty? Is it the buyer that is covered, or are they covering their product?

I bought a 3 year old car, and the computer blew a year later, and they gave me a free computer since it was a 5 year warranty.

#336 6 months ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

See sterns above.

I read that, 60 days, not 90 and people are complaining about a 90 day warranty. I would like to know what kind of NIB warranty they think they are getting, because those posters must think it is greater than 90 day.

#337 6 months ago
Quoted from frolic:

I'm curious, since it keeps coming up, why would the owner affect a warranty? Is it the buyer that is covered, or are they covering their product?
I bought a 3 year old car, and the computer blew a year later, and they gave me a free computer since it was a 5 year warranty.

It matters if the company says it matters. If the warranty is extended to whom ever owns the car or anything else that is covered over the time the warranty is in effect then it doesn't matter, but if it expressly states that the warranty is to the original owner only as some do, then once the item is sold, the warranty is gone and the new owner is on his or her own.

#338 6 months ago
Quoted from pbwizard14:

if it expressly states that the warranty is to the original owner only as some do, then once the item is sold, the warranty is gone and the new owner is on his or her own.

I'm still stuck at "why" they would not stand by their product, for the duration of whatever warranty it is.

In the end, new pinballs can only be sold to guys who have room and money. They get room and money by turning them over to a new buyer. The secondary market is very important to the entire pin ecosystem, even if the manufacturer doesn't make money on that secondary sale.

But I digress.

#339 6 months ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

I guess you aren’t buying Sterns then either because their warranty is 60 days on some components.
The photo is from the Iron Maiden Manual. AP offers a longer warranty.

Have you been following this thread? Everyone agrees that Stern’s written warranty is skimpy as hell. Everyone also agrees that Stern provides service far beyond the written terms, including to second, third, and fourth owners.

If all the other pinball manufacturers stuck to the letter of their written warranties too, there wouldn’t be much to talk about here. But that’s not the reality.

#340 6 months ago

Time for more puppy pics.

#341 6 months ago
Quoted from pbwizard14:

Do you know what other manufactures warranties are on their NIB machines? I would like to know what you know about the other NIB machines and pinball makers.

Honestly, I am somewhat ignorant about warranties. I assumed that it was 6-12 months on most of the boards/monitors, etc. I just pulled up the DI warranty info from the manual, so now I know a little more:

What does the Limited Warranty cover - and for how long?
1. The JJP® “Bumper to Post” Limited Warranty covers every part in your new Jersey Jack Pinball® Machine for a period of 30 days from the date of delivery of the Machine to its original Purchaser.
2. In addition, the JJP® Sound Board, I/O Driver Board, CPU, 4.3” LCD Monitors, 27” LCD Monitor and RGB LED (Light) Boards are covered for a period of one year from the date of delivery of the Machine to its original Purchaser. If the Machine is used for commercial purposes (any use other than in-home use), the JJP® Sound Board, I/O Driver Board, CPU, 4.3” LCD Monitors, and 27" LCD Monitor and RGB LED (Light) Boards are covered for a period of 6 months from the date of delivery of the Machine to its original Purchaser.

#342 6 months ago
Quoted from Jjsmooth:

Time for more puppy pics.

IMG_20170908_142900_820.jpg
#343 6 months ago
Quoted from brucipher:

If I had a four month old pin with a breakdown... I would have tried to work with the original owner...

What do you think the original owner should do? They aren't responsible for your machine breaking.

#344 6 months ago
Quoted from pinmister:

, I have not been following Houdini thread. I have lost interest because of the game's geometry

Having a game that is so different is what makes it so fun in my opinion.

#345 6 months ago

85640A55-E0DB-4E40-A4B2-6DDB04D3935E (resized).jpeg
#346 6 months ago

Did someone ask for Puppy pics?? Finn says I know my owner is never surprised if a pinball machine breaks, doesn't matter if it is four months or forty years old.

20171107_Finn (resized).jpg
#347 6 months ago
Quoted from mbwalker:

I really don't mean to stir the pot here Force...but unless it's a 'lots of pins' IC, it's not bad at all. Actually easier a fair amount of time since you don't need to worry about damaging vias. Having two soldering irons is a must, with appropriate tips makes it very easy. Do it almost everyday and don't even give it a passing thought.
Good eyesight or a magnifier and steady hands is a must - no doubt about it!
I do think people get scared when the magical word 'SMD' is tossed out. A lot of times it's unjustified. With simple parts (resistors, caps, 3, 4, or 5 leaded parts.. use a couple of soldering irons and it's easy. I'd much rather remove SMD than a thru hole anyday.
The spacing really isn't an issue. The 'pick and place' machines need a minimal amount of space to place the the parts. When I do a layout in my line of work - I'd love to shove everything closer together, but the design rules forces the drafting guys to space things farther apart.
A ball grid array? OK a whole new level of complexity!

Amen, brother! Removing an SMD component is less likely to cause board damage than a through-hole because you have to remove the solder joints all the way through and to the other side of the via. Regardless of any of these points arguing this seems to be a moot point, SMD is not going to get replaced with T-H in new pinball machines because of manufacturing costs and the fact that many new components simply are not available in a through-hole package. As long as there are many machines using the same board sets (let's use PD-8 and -16 PROC drivers as an example) the techs could carry a couple of those boards and swap if necessary. If it's just a blown FET they could replace that in the field because apparently they can do through-hole repairs, if not you take the board back to a shop or send it out for repair and cycle through them. It is important that we get schematics from these manufacturers though, I'm not sure what the motivation is behind no longer doing that.

When things change you have two choices, adapt or get left behind.

#348 6 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

What do you think the original owner should do? They aren't responsible for your machine breaking.

I don't know, maybe contact the distributor who just MIGHT step in and bring this all to a screeching halt?? Nah, it would never happen in a million years.

#349 6 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

let's use PD-8 and -16 PROC drivers as an example

We only have one coil driver board (PD-16) and one switch input board (SW-16). Making other variations, such as a PD-8 or various combinations of drivers and switches, wouldn't be much less expensive (because of the common circuitry), yet it would cause a whole host of issues for customers, techs, and manufacturers and defeat many of the reasons for using modular, easily replaceable boards.

- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com

#350 6 months ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

We only have one coil driver board (PD-16) and one switch input board (SW-16). Making other variations, such as a PD-8 or various combinations of drivers and switches, wouldn't be much less expensive (because of the common circuitry), yet it would cause a whole host of issues for customers, techs, and manufacturers and defeat many of the reasons for using modular, easily replaceable boards.
- Gerry
https://www.multimorphic.com

Good to know, I thought I saw the PD-8 but am still learning about the boards, etc. Any comment on availability of schematics for these boards?

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