American pinball and Pinballstar make pinball great

(Topic ID: 223382)

American pinball and Pinballstar make pinball great


By jrio101

7 months ago



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  • 454 posts
  • 143 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by PtownPin
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There are 454 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 10.
#201 7 months ago

Very nice of Joe to take care of two of his previous customers.

This is exceptional CS!

#202 7 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

90 days on a $7K+ machine is a joke...that being said I am sure their warranty policies were front and center prior to purchase....JJP and CGC offer much better warranties. Monitors rarely fail so the one year is basically worthless.

And I guess the monitor warranty must be the one of the monitor manufacturer

#203 7 months ago

Bottom line I debated what to do...

1. Warranty expired. Period.. You don't take a car to the dealership at 50,001 miles and expect a new part for free. Why would we expect that from a pinball company. They can't set a precedent like that.

2. I like both customers in this transaction. They decided that they'd both spend their money on a Houdini, they had other choices. I had the thought : if it was James the original owner who came to me with this what would I do ? I'd make it right for him, no question. So when the 2nd owner was someone I also know, the same logic followed. Bottom line, we sell fun. I don't want anyone disgruntled over a pinball machine... Doesn't make me happy either... I can't please everyone and don't at all times, but this was easy.

3. My decision came to this : I was the ONLY party in a position to make this right and did. It's $ 100 I'm not going to starve over it. Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated, but it was an easy call. I always told my kids one line 'You never will go wrong by doing right thing'... Maybe I'm setting myself up for a precedent (hopefully not) and maybe AP will not be happy with me (probably not), but that's the call I made. Done. : )

#204 7 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Fact. It shows there is Usually another side of the story. The original poster failed to mention he bought this used from a dealer with a used warranty yet never gave him the opportunity to hear his issue. Joe backs ALL of his sales new and used but you have to give him a chance to help! As suspected API simply needed to evaluate the warranty terms, distributor, and owner to make see what is going on. API got torched for no real reason other than evaluating a situation with several unknown factors. PinballStar like several of the distributors API partnered with have a vested interest in keeping customers happy. They just need to know how to help and be asked.

No I had nothing to do with the sale to 2nd owner that was a private sale I had no knowledge of until this AM... It wasn't bought from me and there was and is no such thing as a 'used' warranty... Just clarifying... I sold the NIB game to James / James sold it to Jason / Jason got stuck with the bad board by bad luck / timing... Nobodys fault shit happens. It's fixed.

-14
#205 7 months ago

Was trying to keep your name out of the situation Joe. I was definitely not trying to get something free from anyone. Just wanted a company to stand behind what it sold. No more no less.

#206 7 months ago

Joe pinballstar is the best!!
Buy with confidence, hands down!

#207 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

No I had nothing to do with the sale to 2nd owner that was a private sale I had no knowledge of until this AM... It wasn't bought from me and there was and is no such thing as a 'used' warranty... Just clarifying... I sold the NIB game to James / James sold it to Justin / Justin got stuck with the bad board by bad luck / timing... Nobodys fault shit happens. It's fixed.

Well then that makes you even more lovable! Amazing how the Entire story can change an opinion. Thats what a stand up distributor does. Remind me to ask Richie Rich to call you tonight and tell you a bed time story. lolol

35
#208 7 months ago
Quoted from jrio101:

Was trying to keep your name out of the situation Joe. I was definitely not trying to get something free from anyone. Just wanted a company to stand behind what it sold. No more no less.

Your still not getting it.
Your the second owner.
Your first post should have stated this.
I see comments on first page by many who did not know all the facts and history of ownership.
Barry @ Api went beyond customer service, helped trouble shoot problem, pointed you to the part.
Personally, you should change title of thread and offer apology.
Warranty is just that, the first word is Limited.

#209 7 months ago
Quoted from jrio101:

Was trying to keep your name out of the situation Joe. I was definitely not trying to get something free from anyone. Just wanted a company to stand behind what it sold. No more no less.

Jason,
All good - no need to keep me out of anything, I wasn't even honestly involved or had any knowledge that James even sold his game... I wouldn't have cared if you did come to me up front, maybe I could have gotten it resolved for you at the get go with no stress... I don't think you're wrong, but as much as I want you to like me and all that, I'm going to be man enough to tell you I think your heading in this post needs to be changed as it's not fair to AP. They didn't hurt you or do anything they didn't promise to do. The board is the culprit here, that's all, it's a part they go bad. If it went bad on day 89 this thread wouldn't exist. You're 2nd owner - not sure if the warranty even applies, and it was past the date. Cutting them down is not fair, they are all good people. I know you were unhappy and maybe they would have loved to fix it but felt they couldn't without causing other issues for themselves, which I get. As I said you've been great to work with any of our other transactions so it was easy then once I found out it was you to make this go away for you, James, and AP. Nobody was wrong here. I'm want you enjoying your game. I'll be here to help if I can with anything. Check, Tshirt, and kickin' tote bag on it's way to you...
Joe

#210 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Justin,
All good - no need to keep me out of anything, I wasn't even honestly involved or had any knowledge that James even sold his game... I wouldn't have cared if you did come to me up front, maybe I could have gotten it resolved for you at the get go with no stress... I don't think you're wrong, but as much as I want you to like me and all that, I'm going to be man enough to tell you I think your heading in this post needs to be changed as it's not fair to AP. They didn't hurt you or do anything they didn't promise to do. The board is the culprit here, that's all, it's a part they go bad. If it went bad on day 89 this thread wouldn't exist. You're 2nd owner - not sure if the warranty even applies, and it was past the date. Cutting them down is not fair, they are all good people. I know you were unhappy and maybe they would have loved to fix it but felt they couldn't without causing other issues for themselves, which I get. As I said you've been great to work with any of our other transactions so it was easy then once I found out it was you to make this go away for you, James, and AP. Nobody was wrong here. I'm want you enjoying your game. I'll be here to help if I can with anything. Check, Tshirt, and kickin' tote bag on it's way to you...
Joe

Hey I never got a rockin man bag! Damn you!! Scratch the friendly calls from Richey Rich, back to 3am coin door powder coat calls!!

#211 7 months ago

Extended Pinball warranties: 1 year or 5000 plays, 5 years or 1000 plays or 10 years 25,000plays

#212 7 months ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

You can talk about goodwill. You can talk about what other companies do in situations like this, but this is the way AP is working it.

Quoted from cottonm4:

You can come here and raise hell about the issue you are having with your new pinball machine. Maybe AP will adjust its policies because of your post. Or maybe it won't. And then you don't buy from again.
But you can't come here and say AP is not standing behind its products. You are outside of the stated warranty.

Disagree. OP didn't say they're not honoring the written warranty terms, he said they're "not standing behind" their product by refusing to replace a part that broke within four months, which he views as objectively unacceptable. That might be naive in most circumstances, but given that the general practice in modern pinball manufacturing is to offer a skimpy written warranty but then provide a much broader range of free repairs months or years beyond the words on the page (see Stern and JJP), I don't see where OP's at fault to say that AP is "not standing behind" their game. Given current industry standards for out of warranty service, he's right.

Quoted from tamoore:

1) legally speaking, American Pinball did nothing wrong.
2) not everything legal is right.

This guy gets it.

Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Your the second owner. Your first post should have stated this.

Not sure why this matters given that OP is already clearly outside the written warranty period. Either way AP is sticking to the letter of the written warranty in a situation where Stern or JJP would almost assuredly have repaired/replaced this board for him. Which is their legal right, but also likely of interest to future customers.

#213 7 months ago

The important, lingering question here is if the code update had any role in the board failure. Maybe not but it seems like a strange coincidence.

#214 7 months ago

You know I was in the wrong for posting this here on pinside and I can admit that. Instead of dragging this on over semantics and why I can be right or wrong or AP was right or wrong. Let's close it down

#215 7 months ago

And now we find out this guy is the second owner?

That was exceedingly nice of you Joe.

#216 7 months ago

Things learned

Joe at pinballstar, stand up guy

Justin, Only time will tell. There is a reason that he was asked by around 10 pinsiders if he was the original owner and he never answered, because he knows that most warranties are not transferable. So if he takes Joe up on the full 95.00 refund, then I would put him in the "people not to do business with" category. Next time, just be fully transparent up front. This is why there is the saying that there is two sides to every story

#217 7 months ago
Quoted from westofrome:

The important, lingering question here is if the code update had any role in the board failure. Maybe not but it seems like a strange coincidence.

As hundreds have done the same update and they beta test the crap out of what they do I will bet this had nothing to do with the coincidence of this failure. I believe even the original poster never made that claim and should be assumed not the issue.

19
#218 7 months ago

I'm going to go in a different direction on this one.

YES, AP should have just sent you a replacement board (that probably costs them $25 in bulk) and said "Thank you for believing in us!"

BUT, the real issue is that the boards are not Field Serviceable.

For that last 85 years, pinball was designed to be serviced on the spot. I used to yell at my guys "That game had better have caught fire!" if I saw them bringing a game back into the shop. (sometimes someone would flip an EM over and every switch would need adjustment, or Williams games were actually known for catching fire).

Every minute a game is down, it's losing the owner and the location money.

Drivers and pre-drivers kick the bucket all the time in the world of pinball. Probably the most common repair run.

So if an operator has to buy a $100 board every time + pay his tech (I charge $100/hr) + make 2 trips to the location + lose over a week of income = that might easily be a $500 loss.

It's OK to use surface mount components to save money, BUT on common failure parts, there had better be a blank set of pads next to it so a tech can solder in a thru-hole .40 cent replacement in the field.

#219 7 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

As hundreds have done the same update and they beta test the crap out of what they do I will bet this had nothing to do with the coincidence of this failure. I believe even the original poster never made that claim and should be assumed not the issue.

Fair enough - I was going off this from the original post: "After a successful install of new code I had a flipper coil stop working." That reads as a sequence of events, if not cause-effect.

#220 7 months ago

Joe, you are probably the distributor that cares more than any others.

-8
#221 7 months ago
Quoted from vidgameseller:Things learned
Joe at pinballstar, stand up guy
Justin, Only time will tell. There is a reason that he was asked by around 10 pinsiders if he was the original owner and he never answered, because he knows that most warranties are not transferable. So if he takes Joe up on the full 95.00 refund, then I would put him in the "people not to do business with" category. Next time, just be fully transparent up front. This is why there is the saying that there is two sides to every story

I didn't want to get into the discussion of just because the game switched owners it now is not AP responsibility to take care ow what it sells.

#222 7 months ago

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#223 7 months ago

Mispost...

But I'll ask.. Did anyone pet a puppy yet ?

#224 7 months ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Fair enough - I was going off this from the original post: "After a successful install of new code I had a flipper coil stop working." That reads as a sequence of events, if not cause-effect.

Understood but as I have also read the OP posts in the Houdini thread he didn't have a successful loading of the software (only blue screen) he never actually installed it or had issues which AP tried to assist with. Nothing further matters on this and I agree with the OP the best professional option is to Drain this tread as it was built on missing pieces of the story....

14
#225 7 months ago
Quoted from jrio101:Was trying to keep your name out of the situation Joe. I was definitely not trying to get something free from anyone. Just wanted a company to stand behind what it sold. No more no less.

I would disagree. You most certainly were trying to get the board for free. You just bought a $7000 pinball machine, I am pretty sure the $95 would not have been difficult for you to afford. So for $95 you are trying to hurt a brand new company that is trying to succeed in a very difficult environment. The warranty is over, you are the second ow er (but did not admit to it) the company does not owe you anything.

#226 7 months ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

I would disagree. You most certainly were trying to get the board for free. You just bought a $7000 pinball machine, I am pretty sure the $95 would not have been difficult for you to afford. So for $95 you are trying to hurt a brand new company that is trying to succeed in a very difficult environment. The warranty is over, you are the second ow er (but did not admit to it) the company does not owe you anything.

Agreed.

This thread was a colossal waste of time aside from Joe proving he is one of the best dealers around.

#227 7 months ago

Joe Newhart ...... You are a class act sir.

Do I think AP should have sent him a new board for being a a week or so out of warranty, YES

Do I think as second owner ( I was under the impression he bought NIB ) and being out of warranty he should receive one. Probably not.

Defiantly will say mistakes were made on both parts, and as a new company and in a closed forum I would have offered him a board just to avoid a situation like this.

#228 7 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

BUT, the real issue is that the boards are not Field Serviceable.

Please expand on this. Due to lack of schematics? Because people know how to do smd work.

#229 7 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

I got a feeling this one's going to be popcorn worthy

looks like it served as the inspiration for a podcast

#230 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Mispost...
But I'll ask.. Did anyone pet a puppy yet ?

IMG_5225 (resized).JPG
#231 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Mispost...
But I'll ask.. Did anyone pet a puppy yet ?

Yup!

F8C0EF95-F68A-4C80-A075-88F1830E06BE (resized).jpeg
#232 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Mispost...
But I'll ask.. Did anyone pet a puppy yet ?

Working on it but she's not enjoying your solution....

IMG_0670 (resized).jpg
#233 7 months ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

I would disagree. You most certainly were trying to get the board for free. You just bought a $7000 pinball machine, I am pretty sure the $95 would not have been difficult for you to afford. So for $95 you are trying to hurt a brand new company that is trying to succeed in a very difficult environment. The warranty is over, you are the second ow er (but did not admit to it) the company does not owe you anything.

I obviously don't know what his intention was -- but I think the thread is perfectly valid since many people (including me) highlighted the fact that Stern/JJP have replaced parts long after the warranty was over -- and in some cases (again, including mine), even for 2nd owners. Isn't it important to know what companies will do that and what companies won't to help make informed purchasing decisions?

Maybe it's just me...

-2
#234 7 months ago

If AP really wanted to screw the OP, they would bring a defamation action.

#235 7 months ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

If AP really wanted to screw the OP, they would bring a defamation action.

How so? What have I said in here that is not true?

#236 7 months ago

I stated me experience and opinion in my dealings with them.

#237 7 months ago

Op failed to admit he was the second owner of the machine while dragging AP's name in the mud. Full story please if you're going to go out and publicly sling your frustration poo all over a company.

#238 7 months ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

If AP really wanted to screw the OP, they would bring a defamation action.

This is funny! for what exactly? yes he should have communicated he was the second owner, but the reaction by AP was important for the pinball community to be aware of. Its great that the distributor stepped up, but the reality is JJP, CGC, and Stern have all addressed my issues in the past, and on two occasions I was the second owner. It was still a very bad business decision by AP

#239 7 months ago

I knew she had family!!! lol Best dogs ever. Lets start a what dog is best derail on this thread. lol

#240 7 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I knew she had family!!! lol Best dogs ever. Lets start a what dog is best derail on this thread. lol

I agree! best dogs ever... ( IMO)

#241 7 months ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

If AP really wanted to screw the OP, they would bring a defamation action.

Because those kinds of threats worked really well for Homepin.

#242 7 months ago
Quoted from jrio101:

I stated me experience and opinion in my dealings with them.

Honestly...... I was behind you all the way up until my post 136 when I asked if you bought the game NIB and you did not answer. I have since then drained my prior statement's.......Sorry AP !!!

Being the second owner and out of warranty changes the dynamics of the situation. AP did'nt do what I would have done. but they certainly were not wrong for their decision either.

You owe Joe Newhart a huge THX and IMO should defiantly change the title of this post . It would show face in this crazy situation.

#243 7 months ago
Quoted from jrio101:

You know I was in the wrong for posting this here on pinside and I can admit that. Instead of dragging this on over semantics and why I can be right or wrong or AP was right or wrong. Let's close it down

You need to change the title to correctly reflect on AP. Then you can ask to shut it down.

-9
#244 7 months ago

I never once said I was the original owner and didn't want to have the discussion of why they shouldn't have to cover this because the game went from one house to another.

#245 7 months ago

I like the new threat title. Now Joes head will get Huge.......lol

#246 7 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Please expand on this. Due to lack of schematics? Because people know how to do smd work.

No schematics, is of course, as bad as it gets.

But pinball techs that go out to fix a game are not going to have a Hot-air SMD Rework S-
tation in their tool box; even if they do know how to do SMD Rework.

So, well designed SMD boards always have empty Thru-hole pads on the boards so that on-site techs can make repairs.

Zoom in on this pic:

jjjjj (resized).jpg

See how even though it's a surface mount board, there are empty holes next to each component to allow field repair with thru-hole parts?

See how a tech could fix this board with .30 cents worth of parts and a soldering pencil, instead of buying a new $100 replacement board?

Extra points to them for even supplying holes for parts that seldom fail.

-
If you ever repair your washing machine, you will see that that motor driver board has the same SMD transistor drivers on the board, but also has Thru-hole pads right next to them. This way the dopey appliance repair guy can solder in new transistors on the spot.

He does not have to come back with a whole new board as you go a week without laundry.

#247 7 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Please expand on this. Due to lack of schematics? Because people know how to do smd work.

I think the operative word is "field" serviceable. Are portable smd rigs common items techs carry today? I think it's more likely you'll keep spare boards on hand and swap it out in the field, repair it back at the shop. WAY more effective and less costly to keep a handful of common transistors in the truck than a couple of each board that might fail.

#248 7 months ago
Quoted from Pinphila:

If AP really wanted to screw the OP, they would bring a defamation action.

You must have attended the same law school as whysnow ...

#249 7 months ago
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:

WAY more effective and less costly to keep a handful of common transistors in the truck than a couple of each board that might fail.

Exactly.

And then you have to worry about having the current board version.

"Wait, I have v1.1 board, are you saying that won't work???"
"Unfortunately, that game takes v2.2 or higher boards, although not higher than v4, because that's when the pinout changed...."

#250 7 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

But pinball techs that go out to fix a game are not going to have a Hot-air SMD Rework S-
tation in their tool box; even if they do know how to do SMD Rework.

Sounds like when they get the schematics they will need to add one assuming them make portable ones. Or have extra boards to drop in so they can go back and service the bad one.

My point is, if I have to learn all this board repair that you’ve known for the past 40 years, then current OPs are going to have to learn this stuff. It’s no different.

Schematics is the most important thing that needs released imo.

Also your point about making better smd board with these through holes on them is a great point.

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