No, that’s the thing. I’m very in tune to RZ (ask anyone I play league with... not the biggest fan), have seen the game hit the market a ton, and still think Houdini’s have been sold more frequently, especially in this infancy stage. I’m sure a Pinside Market search could give us some real data... but I worked 12 hours on my deck today and am now watching 80s wrestling, so priorities.

But you’re right, at least it’s only a $95 board and not some $400 node board.

As far as a written warranty that is in line with other Manufacturers but has anyone ever heard of Stern not replacing a board 4 months or even within a year of manufacture? If you're new I think you have to go above and beyond the industry leader to try and build trust and win over new customers. I know hearing stories like this will make it unlikely that I will buy a game from AP in the future.

Found it in 2 seconds. It’s pages 3 and 4 of the manual. On Americans website. First thing I’d do when buying something like this is be COMPLETELY clear on warranties.

This is a scary one! although,as a mediocre player,I see why many Houdini pins are for sale! You have to shoot the targets pretty right on to get anywhere,and a lot of these players are just bangers!This pin has also made me a better player doing this! Whiners sell your pins,who cares,you made the wrong turn on this one anyway! Make better decisions,play better pinball.I've spent $1000.diagnosing a LED blow out on my ST Pre,thats called "tough titty" stuff breaks! Fix it!! Talk to some B66LE owners who got broken-in-box pins brand new!Good luck,have fun,cool out!!!

Doing this could also bury you. They chose to go the other way.

This is a risk they run too.

3 months warranty on a $7000 game for a $50 board? lol

As a second owner, JJP went above and beyond to help well beyond dates and being the second owner.

You guys can continue to chime in about " its clearly stated 90 days " bullshit. I wanted one but I'll never buy a Houdini, thanks to the OP for posting.

And that’s well within your right. No big deal.

I remember the drama when JJP wasn’t honoring warranties on resale’s but that has changed. I suspect AP will address this.

My problem is with any Pinball manufacturer, why are circuit board warranties so short? We aren’t talking about cheap games here. Can someone enlighten me?

On My Trane HVAC, my cpu board died after 5 years and they replaced it under Warranty. It’s warrantied for 10 years. Why can’t Pinball manufacturers warranty boards longer?

Only poke you cause I love ya Chuck. Are you saying buyers were given Manuals at shows pre-purchase to evaluate the terms of their agreement? Not so sure the manual was even out prior to shipment but I could be wrong. Just don't recall my car dealership handing me the owners manual pre-purchase to evaluate my decision nor a pinball company but some are wiser than me I guess. I still think the OP could have worked this out with API no doubt as its a rather small issue that I suspect they would have bent over backwards to try and help with.

Be honest, your not buying one because of the Canadian exchange rate.

My guess is they don’t want the cost burden hanging over their heads.

Bad, bad move on AP’s part. 30 days removed from their BS 90 day warranty...that’s not how you build brand loyalty. Do they think for even a minute that the OP will be interested in purchasing their next title??

Nope. Just saying I would hope they’d at least ask about it before shelling out 7k.

Have you ever paid a retailer 7k for something without even inquiring about the finer details? I guess I just don’t even consider doing stuff like that.

The exchange rate does suck but being in Alberta, we only pay one low tax. With some looking, I could probably get one for around 9K. That's about $6800 US.

I'm going to shy away from buying new anyway, any company that only offers a 90 day board warranty is crazy. I have all original 90's games with 100% working boards for 5+ years now.

90 days.....

I doubt the length of warranty was even a concern for most buyers. “It’s new, it’s shiny, I want one” is the typical attitude.

It’s way too early in the lifespan to even be established as a solid or reliable game. Look at what we now about the typical problems with certain boards or certain games.

Does the situation stink? Yes. Are they at fault? No. They didn’t bait and switch anyone or not honor the terms.

No chance in hell he will.

Where do you draw the line? I know that will be a question to get everyone going! For me, 1 year parts sounds fair. Isn't CGC 2 years on LE's? ( I should know, I own one)

Stern, JJP and Spooky have all taken care of me with my warranty issues!! A real shame to hear this about American Pinball. I passed on Houdini and was curious to see what they came up with next. Looks like I’ll pass. To be honest I just didn’t have a good feeling about this company from the beginning.

To be fair isn't this their second game?

And so far have there been any reported board problems with Magic Girl?

My thoughts on why pinball warranties are so short is due to there is no telling how the machine will be used once purchased. These are designed specifically to be used/abused commercially. ...however

Although one buyer may only put a hundred or so plays on it in a month in a home environment, the same title might be getting 150 plays per day in a drunken bar cade.

So true. And if the game is being used as a piece of commercial coin operated equipment as it was meant for, then the overall coin drop should more than cover a few fairly cheap replacement parts, and still be able to turn a profit. If you want the game to sit and not make money, should the warranty be any different?

The games you have are the survivors that weren't cannibalized for parts to fix broken games. The bad ones are long gone.

The people who cite Stern as the model of quality and customer service is laughable. They've had all kinds of quality issues that they haven't stood behind and created huge PR disasters while people waited for some sort of resolution - ghosting, dimpling, cabinets splitting, spike issues, node board failures.

Let's do a little comparison. The Stern warranty is only 2 months and only covers the PCB and 9 months on the monitor. API is 3 months on *ALL* parts of the pinball machine except plastics, rubbers and posts and 1 year on the monitor. I had a plastic bust and API had new plastics shipped to me in 3 days at no cost to me.

This is the first bad node board from API that I've heard about. It's not like a there has been a flood of boards dying. API has bent over backwards to listen to their customers and to help their customers on this forum. Barry was great to deal with.

To the OP, you might want to check with Multimorphic to see if they would cover the part under their warranty. I'm not sure what the terms are but it's worth checking. Plus, the part might be cheaper directly from them.

Do you work for them or where would you get this information?

Still a really bad business decision....especially for a young company that should be focused on customer support/brand/quality...JJP and CGC warranty fall far beyond 90 days

Where would it stop?
As so far others have not come forward with this issue, it would stop after the OP's board was replaced.
It's a poor decision for AP not to take care of the problem.
How much would this cost them? Their price for one board.
How much would they pay for good word of mouth and postings here..... priceless

If a lot of others do come forward then maybe it's a widespread problem like what could happen with a light board.... just sayin

Just want to make sure I understand:

1. The game is outside its warranty.

2. The part is $95.

3. API is standing by their warranty.

What exactly is the problem here?

You ordered your part. It's on the way. Why did a thread have to be started to potentially damage API sales when they did nothing wrong?

On the AP web site, they do mention this:

"What transistor do you use on the coil driver boards?
It is an IRL540N, N channel FET."

I know this thread is about the warranty, but in the end - if you can repair yourself for a few dollars rather than $90, that's likely the path I would take.

This is America, land of the free, and that is what many here have come to expect. Especially if you go and call yourself American.

Don't be silly. I said it was the first node board issue *I* heard about. I didn't claim to have insider knowledge. These boards are widely used in many, many machines outside of API and have been available for quite some time and I haven't heard that there is a problem with the P3-ROC. Do you have some data that you'd like to share that would make me more enlightened?

What I have heard is a flood of Stern bitching over the last couple years over all sorts of quality issues that they didn't cover INSIDE the warranty period and all of a sudden Stern is this perfect company that stands behind everything and API is the devil after one person reports that a node board died OUTSIDE of the warranty period. I'm not even arguing that the OP shouldn't be pissed off but this mob mentality over one report is rather overstated. That is the point I was trying to make.

Money saved by not replacing a board for a customer just past the crap warranty - 95 bucks.

Getting put on blast on Pinside and potentially losing future customers - priceless!

With great CS exposer like this.........Just like Houdini , AP pinball might preform a vanishing act in a few years.

You mean the sam community that repeatedly jumps on the preorder wagon?

Or the same community that bitches constantly about Stern quality and then throws money at them every time they release a new title? I call BS on this whole band of brothers thing.

I would understand praising American pinball if they gave you parts free of charge outside of their warranty window.

But it seems wrong to drag a company through the mud when they clearly stated their warranty and didn’t do anything illegal or unethical

I'm sure this sucks for you, but if the warranty is 90 days how is AP in the wrong here? Your thread title is misleading.

You say they treated you well and were very helpful and yet you still chose to shame them with this thread. Gonna have to side with AP on this one.

IDK... It sounds like a Houdini update failed for some reason... any this burnt out a coil driver... and the manufacturer didn't help the customer out?
That's pretty sh1tty if you ask me.

It's 90 days from distributor ship... not date of manufacture. Did you check AP's math to make sure they aren't using the MFG date as the start of the "Warranty"?

If you were here in Austin; I'd replace that coil driver for you for them being asses about it. (ofcourse; you'd have to buy the replacement which is proably under 4 bucks)

Might be time to either learn how to solder... or find a buddy who can.

Maybe you can send the driver board back to gstellenberg to be refurbished?

I personally would be a little peeved if a component failed on a practically new piece of equipment and then had the manufacturer direct me to a 3rd party to pay retail on a replacement. This applies to pins, vacuum cleaners, toasters or anything else I bought brand new that was less than a year old. There may be alot of crow to eat in this thread a year from now should this become a widespread issue.

It is all right here on page 3. The very first item mentioned in the service manual: Coverage #1 All parts....for 90 days from the date of invoice or shipment..."

Did you meet the conditions by "filling out the Product Registration Form within 15 days of receipt" as directed? This is a $7,000.00 machine you had shipped in; Not a $15.00 toaster off the shelf of Walmart. I am assuming you took the time to read the paperwork, correct? I am also assuming AP sent you a paper copy of this paperwork instead of cheaping out like a lot of outfits that just send you a link to their online copy, correct?

If you did not read this info. you are fault for not knowing what is happening. If you did read this important information then there is no way you can say AP is not standing behind its product.

You can talk about goodwill. You can talk about what other companies do in situations like this, but this is the way AP is working it. It sucks. I'm not saying it doesn't. I used to be in sales and I know how sales operate. The last item a sales rep wants to be talking about is a shitty warranty; so it goes to the buyer to do due diligence. And of you do not like the terms, you walk. You bought the terms.

Now, new car sales reps like to talk about their 7-year/70,000 mile warranty because the market and educated buyers demand it, but it was not always that way. In the 60s, the 5 year/50,000 mile automobile warranty became the norm due partly to market forces and due to some government regulation. The Truth-in-Lending laws came about because many businesses glossed over how much you were REALLY going to be paying to finance that car, that diamond ring, or that house full of furniture you bought---all on credit. The sales rep did not/does not want to talk about that stuff. "Here,son, just sign on the dotted line. We can discuss the details later."

Before there was some government help/intervention the buyer really had to do his homework on a company and its products. Caveat Emptor--Buyer Beware. That still exists today.

I imagine buying a new pinball machine might be something like the above. Especially at an Expo where the sales rep/dealer is under a great deal of pressure to make a sale RIGHT NOW !

But, you, the buyer, are still responsible for checking the fine print. In this case, the fine print is actually quite readable and in your face.

Either you read the conditions the seller offered up and said, "OK. I'm good the 90 day warranty." Or you did not bother to read it at all. And your roll of the dice did not work out.

You can come here and raise hell about the issue you are having with your new pinball machine. Maybe AP will adjust its policies because of your post. Or maybe it won't. And then you don't buy from again.

But you can't come here and say AP is not standing behind its products. You are outside of the stated warranty. And the warranty you had was way better than the warranty the manufacture offered up in 1989 on that Data East pinball machine.

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So if you take the price of a 3 month old Houdini vs a brand new model from AP, and find the difference; ask yourself if a 3 month warranty is worth this much to you. Pretty simple.

Having a board failure on a 4 month old HUO machine is pretty crappy, regardless of the stated warranty period. Does AP have to honor the warranty beyond the stated period? Absolutely not. But most smart companies try to get ahead of issues like this, so falling consumer confidence in their product does not erode future sales. Like it or not, a few thousand people just read this thread...and if even one of them decided to forgo buying from American pinball after reading it, was it really worth that sum of money? I'm guessing their cost on the part would be $50-$70, which makes this all the more silly at the end of the day.

Just buy another machine and then you will have all the parts you need.

What's another 7 grand???