American Pinball Houdini thread

(Topic ID: 183206)

American Pinball Houdini thread


By lllvjr

1 year ago



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Topic index (key posts)

32 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20

Post #145 Houdini Pinball initial flyer Posted by HighProtein (1 year ago)

Post #184 Initial reveal at TPF Posted by SilverballNut (1 year ago)

Post #190 Introductory Price of Houdini Posted by 1iblind (1 year ago)

Post #198 Initial Pictures of Machine Posted by lllvjr (1 year ago)

Post #229 Playfield Close-Up Pics Posted by bigd1979 (1 year ago)

Post #284 Machine feature details Posted by rosh (1 year ago)

Post #312 More feature details Posted by rosh (1 year ago)

Post #385 Double switch lane picture Posted by pinballrockstar (1 year ago)

Post #420 Pinball show appearance schedule for Houdini Posted by rosh (1 year ago)

Post #434 Houdini pics from Allentown show Posted by PinballSTAR (1 year ago)

Post #533 Official Houdini Flyer with features listed Posted by Join_The_Cirqus (1 year ago)

Post #535 Ball Counter graphic for game Posted by rosh (1 year ago)

Post #609 More mode and feature details from programmer Posted by rosh (1 year ago)

Post #639 More game system details from programmer Posted by rosh (1 year ago)

Post #978 Photos of the updated game for expo Posted by rosh (1 year ago)

Post #1000 Photos of the cabinet interior side art Posted by rosh (1 year ago)

Post #1287 Josh Kugler Interview Posted by konjurer (1 year ago)

Post #1357 Houdini Gameplay video Posted by rosh (1 year ago)

Post #2290 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by BarryJ (11 months ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#1586 1 year ago

One feature I haven't heard folks talk about but is one of my favorite is the chains linking all the pop bumpers!

Trigger one of them and you hear this great clanking sound!

#1590 1 year ago
Quoted from gweempose:

I'm pretty sure the "clanking" is generated by the speakers.

[ ROMANTIC VISION SHATTERED ]

I still reward creativity and this is REVOLUTIONARY, not evolutionary IMHO

1 week later
#1638 1 year ago
Quoted from Gexchange:

Our first 5 we are going to be sending out to public locations so as many people who want to play it can. One Location in ..., 1 In Denver, Co, ...
JJ

Will this one be in your showroom?

#1668 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Will that included the BBQ I can mooch off of you?

Hey I'm crashing that party! ( - :

#1708 1 year ago

Since it is shipping I assume it has a manual. Could you provide a link for that? I'm mostly interested in what the service menus look like.

Thank you and congratulations!

#1717 1 year ago

Holy cow! Some real innovation here too! One suggestion I have is that once you consider this done NEVER CHANGE IT FOR ANY FUTURE GAMES.

That way someone charging through the menu can develop muscle memory and just know: Enter/Test, +, +, Enter etc etc

1 month later
#2055 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

...Obviously that [knocker] is one of the first things that gets cut from a BOM given the very limited use of it vs the cost of it. But I know some folks really like them.

When I build a pin of my own design (you've already seen my ideas : - ) I will start with the knocker and build the rest of the machine around it. "Oh, the rest of this stuff - playfield, backboard, theme, etc? They are there to support the knocker"

It will have something called "Bumpstock Mode(r)" where the knocker fires a bunch of times in rapid succession

1 month later
-8
#2501 11 months ago

I was watching a guy play when the machine went to some wonky mode where the flippers were backwards (press button to drop, release button to flip) and also switched side-to-side.

I'd pass on this behavior, annoying not innovating.

Theater of Magic is a machine about magic and they didn't have to do this to have a great game.

#2637 10 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Could be street power fluctuations?

Absolutely not line problems. Modern switchers handle a very large input voltage range and adapt. You don't even need a different supply for 110V vs. 220V.

FETs don't change Rds-ON, coils don't change their field characteristics like this...

Software bug most likely - what else could it be?

#2640 10 months ago

Question for American Pinball:

What is the power ratings on Houdini? Just the ones on the back is fine. If you happen to know power usage as it is on an arcade floor not being played that would be great too.

Couldn't get near one at TPF let alone behind one ( - :

Thank you

#2731 10 months ago

Soldering on quick disconnects? That certainly isn't best practice. Why?

Houdini Kludge.png

#2732 10 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Open coin door, go to menu, exit menu. Start next game. We got quite good at it.

If you have PinRemote™ you don't need the key to open the coin door. Just your cell phone and the operator PIN...

#2734 10 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Turning the key is cheaper and fast enough.

For many users: yes it is. My MMR Orcs don't have LED glowing eyes and that is fine for me. Different needs & wants.

-7
#2776 10 months ago
Quoted from JIM_Z:

The developing reputation has me thinking of canceling my order......I'm an average player at best and don't think frustration equals fun.

I have read all these reviews of how hard the game is. I played 2 games at a non-AP booth along with another guy who played 2 games also. It was painful listening to all the audio hints, but before you point this out you can change all that yada yada. Not as a festival participant.

It didn't feel fun. Usually you know right away.

That and some of their assembly techniques would steer me clear of this title.

No Loctite(r) on switch screws? Add a shaker and it will disassemble itself in short order. And other things. Sorry A-P but these are objective observations.

Just my $0.02 of course

2 weeks later
#3112 10 months ago
Quoted from mbelofsky:

Josh:
Thanks! I changed the scoop from 7 to 8; upper catapult from 17 to 19; left and right flippers to 21 (I think they were initially 22 and 23).
I can now shoot the ball to the stage and if it goes in, it stays in. So thank you.
The milk can loop is better. It will still ocassionally pop out, but it has gone through several times. Would it help to add a felt dot inside the loop to dampen the shot?Michael

This level of tuning required to make the game playable suggests that a barcade machine will never be tuned correctly. They just don't want to take it offline. They might not know how to tune it anyway.

It would probably be fun to play in a home venue where the owner took this level of attention to get it working correctly.

-7
#3129 10 months ago
Quoted from mbelofsky:

Fun with felt sticky dots...
I placed a felt dot into the milk can loop as shown on the right...

Isn't this "cheating"? Aren't you supposed to play the game the way it was designed?

You can also make it easier by giving yourself 10 balls/game. More extreme but still a vector in the same direction.

-4
#3136 10 months ago
Quoted from mbelofsky:

If the original intent was for the ball to go through and not bounce back most of the time, this makes the game play as intended.

We must conclude that what showed up at your door was the manufacturer's intent. All else is the work of man ( - :

Some games are too hard to have any fun at. If you're in an arcade, you walk to the next one. Some HUE owners will work on technique, others will bend the physics of what they were sent. Both are fine if you acknowledge the camp you're in. Or even if you don't.

I think the game was designed to be of the ultimate difficulty and that's why I don't play or own it. Nice to look at though.

-7
#3145 10 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

If you dont own it or play it, why are you posting here? Just wondering....

Short answer: because I can. I wouldn't buy Houdini because it doesn't have a knocker. Won't buy a toy without essential equipment.

-11
#3198 10 months ago
Quoted from rosh:

Not sure I can agree that a knocker is 'essential equipment' considering games have not included one for over a decade, regardless, so when/if a knocker kit is made available, I assume you will then buy a Houdini.

Your logic does not follow. Here is my logic stated differently:

IF it does not have a knocker THEN I do not buy it

Your assumption above might suggest that I own all machines with knockers which I wish I did

#3312 9 months ago
Quoted from BarryJ:

Everyone else's second fuse holder empty? Yes the board is designed for 2 different voltages. The only voltage being used right now is 12V for the LED on the start button and shaker motor if installed. the other empty fuse might be used for the 48V to run the knocker coil...but we are also testing a 12V knocker.. We have options!

Run the knocker on 110V, get noticed ( - :

#3348 9 months ago
Quoted from transprtr4u:

If no... Is there a way to achieve this ?

Soldering iron ( - :

Owner / Operator vs. user. Have a skit on this, goes something like:

"If you spend more time playing your game than working on it... you might be a pinball user"

#3351 9 months ago
Quoted from transprtr4u:

Perhaps more time taking care of your 2 EMs and your MMRr would be a better way to go!

No time, about to introduce PinRemote™ I made a note to stop posting possibly controversial stuff here, then ignored it. BAD BOY, no Scooby Snacks for you.

I do have my own surface mount line, ya know

-2
#3352 9 months ago

Sorry for being somewhat off-topic, but the last time I checked I owned an EM, a SS and a Beagleboner.

Gotta buy some more but the industry is in flux right now and I don't care for the Iron Maiden theme.

-2
#3354 9 months ago

Posting is not ignoring BTW

I think I'll hold out for Big Lebowski or CGC BBB, no brainers to buy those.

Back to work

1 week later
#3491 9 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

...The play and features of the game are Very power sensitive!!

The catapult should have its own dedicated power supply. Placement near the launch point would help too.

1 week later
#3828 9 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

...but will wipe out high scores and any other feature (timers, difficulty levels, etc.) and pricing adjustments that were made.

Ouch. Resetting high scores seems so basic

#3838 9 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Software is all about prioritization, bug fixes first!

At HP we did design first, implementation next, and testing / bug fix after that. But they didn't design pinball machines.

#3849 9 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Agile != Waterfall

I don't understand this, but please don't explain. Back to it.

1 week later
#4082 8 months ago
Quoted from BladeFury:

**Mod makers I love you all for your ideas and hard work! Thanks for feeding my Moditis addiction lol You rock!

All you need to round this out is PinRemote™ under the hood! Administer this beautiful machine with your phone. See the Iron Transfer store on this site if you want to learn more or order.

I'm going for "Mod of the Year" with my invention and the word is getting out.

#4127 8 months ago
Quoted from rosh:

But I'm not, first time I've really written code for a living -- well if you can call what you earn in pinball as 'making a living'

Great perks

#4151 8 months ago
Quoted from BarryJ:

The first Houdini heading overseas connected to the 220 Volt 50 Hz generator. We also were able to finish up the in-rush current testing.

You tested it with the generator or it will be powered with one there?

A generator is a bad choice to test with because of variance. Both voltage and frequency vary with engine RPM on simple generators. Might I suggest you'd be much better off with a high-quality 50Hz sine wave inverter or an HQ inverter-based generator.

#4228 8 months ago
Quoted from Frogman:

While playing, got a blue screen and the pin rebooted. Don’t remember exactly what was going on - talking with a friend while playing. I’ll send the log files to AP, but I’m curious if anyone’s had this experience.

Wow, like the Windows blue screen? Known by some as the BSOD, Blue Screen of Death

1 week later
#4390 8 months ago
Quoted from WW2GURU:

...Seems the timer could be triggered by that switch down there yes?

It could be triggered by any other playfield device being hit, i.e. pop bumper, slingshot etc.

#4449 8 months ago
Quoted from rosh:

Points per flip, don't think that would make total sense, however, I am planning a new stat along those very lines as far as 'efficiency of play'

Call it what it is: % Bricks Launched ( - : "Brickage"

1 week later
#4562 7 months ago
Quoted from enkiktd:

... and it turns out that there’s just no coil sleeve.

Look at how many inspections this got through, scary

1 week later
#4620 7 months ago

Variac? I'm hearing things, right? What a dangerous kludge, has to be a better way

#4628 7 months ago

Heard near a Houdini machine recently:

"I heard you got a variac for your new American Pinball box! Is it Dialed In?"

"No, it's Houdini."

#4638 7 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I think I'll get one just for the way it looks!

I consider them somewhat dangerous in that if they inadvertently get cranked up whatever is plugged into them usually gets fried.

In my humble opinion the AP design team should have caught this in their trunk testing and went with a separate high-quality supply that fed just the catapult. After all, aren't power supplies supposed to put out constant voltage independent of load or supply? Look at how few parts are in that one, not much regulating ability there - especially for a linear supply. Talk of fixing this with autotransformers (an old name for variac) is laughable.

Sorry AP, but I think this needed pointing out. I'd just let the thing miss.

#4643 7 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

This one looks like it will work and seems to be a good price:

This is the right direction to solve this problem, good job. I'll be curious to see how many users it helps.

3 weeks later
#4978 6 months ago
Quoted from Videogod:

Made me laugh too...the first 10 times. I think it's the shear quantity of negative callouts that's the problem. I also don't get the logic of doing a "you really stink" when the ball drains out the side.

Yeah, most of us get enough criticism day to day without adding this.

I like Elvira's "Oh Poo!" on Scared Stiff

#4998 6 months ago
Quoted from pinden007:

...The cheering is not clear enough.

Imagine if Pinside existed when FunHouse was introduced. Megabytes of complaints about that obnoxious Rudy. ( - :

#5000 6 months ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

Conversely, imagine if the means existed for Williams to willingly receive constructive criticism (as well as praise) before Funhouse was totally finished. It would likely be an even better game than it already is.

Extend that to changing your spouse's DNA in hindsight (always 20/20 right?) to knock off those few rough behavior edges. ( - :

Some things are best just as they were conceived. Funhouse isn't an exemplary example of this!

#5100 6 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

My games play pretty good at 118 volts.
I would be very happy if power stayed between 118 to 120.

A technical aside here: You need to measure your line voltage with a true RMS (Root Mean Square) meter to know how much "working voltage" it contains. I'll assume you are just using ordinary DVMs to measure yours which gives you what you need to know: Will my machines play correctly?

I used to assume that line voltage was the perfect sine wave at the outlet. WRONG! See the picture below showing actual voltage values.

I've lived 25 years off-grid (batteries) so have had all flavors of AC inverters. The modern ones have very clean sine wave power. Yes, some discrete steps but nothing "glitchy".

Be curious to see if the isolators help.

Actual-line-voltage-waveform (resized).png
#5106 6 months ago
Quoted from adborto:

Yup - even the APC has a huge range. You need a Panamax 5400 or a Furman (not sure which model - around $800) to have the voltage be around a +/- 6. The +/- 6 range is sometimes enough to throw off the catapult. It might not be worth the investment unless you have a large collection and are concerned about constant power to all of you pins.

An "offline UPS" would solve the problem. We used to use them at rig sites because power there was all over the map.

They work by having the battery always power the AC output (inverter AC). The line connection just charges the battery. They cost $800 about 15 years ago. Don't remember the brand names but that is what Google is for.

I still think a good quality supply inside Houdini would fix this.

#5109 6 months ago
Quoted from pinghetto:

I would hold tight on modding out the game or dropping $800 on an external power source. I have heard AP may be working on a solution. Maybe Barry can confirm before anyone alters their games.

I wonder about AP's priorities. Wouldn't they be concentrating on this coming October[fest]?

If I had one of these boxes (Houdini) I'd look at replacing the cheesy main power supply. Bet you could source a good one, or two for under $150. Hard to tell which ones might work though, might have to iterate

#5227 6 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

My question is, should I buy the variac and set it to 115 volts, which is my nominal voltage that I have seen. Or should I acquire the daughter board which is being worked on at API instead?

Running equipment on a variac would almost certainly void the manufacturer's warranty. Bump the dial (dog, kids, gremlins) and it fries things. You almost certainly have to wait for a solution AP condones if you care about your warranty.

Balcer, Kugler?

#5236 6 months ago

Can anyone supply a picture and mfg/model number for the 48V PS in Houdini? Thought I would look for a possible upgrade.

Details of how it connects in would help. Thank you

#5286 6 months ago

Question for rosh - I understand Houdini is implemented with Mission Pinball Framework.

Could you share with us approximately how many lines of source code it takes to implement Houdini?

I ask because I'm wondering what kind of effort it takes to make a real pinball machine (at least this portion of it).

You can make flippers work on a single page but that is very simple.

Thanks

#5289 6 months ago
Quoted from rosh:

epthegeek is correct, it is not MPF, Houdini is on a framework that was originally based on pyprocgameHD, with a lot of skeletongame ported into it

Thanks, didn't know. Learn every day. 30K lines is a fair amount.

#5337 6 months ago

Fair to say it isn't the upgrade media.

#5346 6 months ago
Quoted from rosh:

pyprocgameHD was developed by MOcean and me to add LCD support and other improvements to pyprocgame written by Adam Preble for the multimoprhic P-roc system.

I read somewhere that there is a slack channel that is that is mostly P-roc and HDpyprocgame users. Can anyone provide a link to that? Seems like a great place to learn more about ways to implement pins.

#5384 6 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Or run the ball through a barrel/tube

Yeah, like shooting a man out of a canon - wasn't that a magic trick in the day?

2 weeks later
#5663 5 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Easiest thing to do is alligator clip to an insert

Just solder to something. Aren't all the connections soldered in Houdini? Unsolder it if you want it stock again and no one will know

#5678 5 months ago

Mr Kugler seems absent, maybe on holiday learning German traditions

#5698 5 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Josh and the entire API team are always around and working their butts off for customers. With another game around the corner they have their hands full but I will bet if there are issues/concerns sent to them through the company support site they will always be there to help. Pinside can be a full time job at times so concentrating on the work at hand has probably caught up with them.

Anyone heard any news about the catapult power fix? Seems like that should come out before they start the next adventure.

#5716 5 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

I would disagree, I left enough money in Vegas of the years to buy (2) power plants! lol

Inflows into Lake Powell & Mead are at 37% of normal now. Big problems next year if nothing changes.

Also if Mead drops much more they will have to start shutting down hydro generators due to cavitation. You can bet there will be restrictions on pinball power before they start turning off any of those nice casino lights & games...

#5738 5 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Anyone have thoughts on this?

You seem to spend all your time adjusting this thing. Have another machine near by you can actually play.

1 week later
-2
#5886 5 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Get a 2000w 10 amp variac.
It works amazing.

A 10 amp variac should be rated at 1000W. Mfg probably just inflated the rating. Can't get more than 15A out of a standard outlet anyway.

Houdini requires as much preflight and maintenance as an airplane. I could not tolerate this for a new machine.

#5936 5 months ago

Maybe adding big capacitors can help Houdini power as it did for Alien:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/alien-pinball-official-game-thread/page/464#post-4591616

Alien users have to fend for themselves. Seems Houdini users like to fend for themselves. The ultimate tinkerers game.

2 weeks later
#6251 4 months ago
Quoted from PhantomO:

No, just stock sound. It is a deep bass groan that lasts about 3 seconds.

Lurch

Lurch (resized).jpg
3 weeks later
#6611 3 months ago

Does anyone know if new Houdini machines are now equipped with the better power supply? Tnx

-1
#6623 3 months ago
Quoted from BarryJ:

If so, will you be buying one?

No. Not my cup of tea. Didn't even play the one in Banning. I heard from others that it wasn't adjusted right (the total content of this thread now, eh?). I didn't have a coin door key to try to tweak it to play "right". So I played the other 536 pins & Battlezone of course.

-4
#6634 3 months ago
Quoted from BarryJ:

just trying to figure out why you are so interested in bashing Houdini at every turn, eh?

There are people here who love this machine in spite of all the time they spend tweaking it, I'm just in the other camp. Fair, yes?

Also the ball throw was previously listed as 20" but has grown to 22". Feature inflation - maybe you measure diagonally now like TVs

-1
#6638 3 months ago

From your web page. Your marketing guys and gals must have thin scrotums!

HoudiniFeatures (resized).jpg
-4
#6641 3 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

22 > 20, pretty basic math right there. I feel there is another scrotum joke I'm missing out on making here but I'm trying to be polite.

Can't argue your math technique, but I think most readers here know that if advertising says 'Over 20"' it usually means 20.1" or in there somewhere.

If it measured 22.01" you would advertise 'Over 22"' Each reader here can be their own judge on this. In any event both different numbers come from the same company which I question.

As for anatomy look up "undescended testis"

#6643 3 months ago
Quoted from rosh:

At this point you have made it clear you don't like Houdini

I am disappointed with what AP has done so far and hope they do better in the future. Houdini is nice in some ways and a failure in others.

This is a time where no one or no thing is held accountable. I guess we're supposed to ignore negative things nowadays.

-2
#6646 3 months ago

AP - do an excellent job on O.F. Don't release it before it is thoroughly tested and ready. Don't update the code 40 times after it is shipping.

All the above could have been worded in the positive sense for O.F. but I feel the above applies to your first machine.

-1
#6651 3 months ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

if manufacturers (of nearly any product) waited for code to be completely bug-free you'd see one new product every 25 years

OK you guys win. I'll buy the racy version of OF when it comes out if they don't inflate the girl's bust measurements ( - :

In the day we had specific "defects per 1,000 hour" metrics we had to meet before we could move forward. It didn't take us 25 years to come out with products, but it took real time that made management upset because we were supposed to obsolete our own products to stay competitive. All this code went into ROM so turning it was a nightmare. Those days are long gone.

It is encouraging to see the patience that some of you converts have on this one. EM's require tons of patience too, so must be a pinball thing.

I'll go back to yelling "GET OFF MY LAWN" now and wait for Heidi to show what she's got.

-1
#6656 3 months ago
Quoted from konjurer:

You're being a troll. Ignore the troll.

My deal is to learn and I'm learning. The names people use to settle arguments in their heads include troll, liberal (in western CO anyway), hyperbolic and others I'm forgetting right now. I also think I see some of those "false 'Yelp-like' reviews" on Pinside. What are those called?

I agree that putting stuff on ignore mode is useful but talking about it isn't.

Back to the regularly scheduled program, keep flipping!

1 month later
#7293 83 days ago
Quoted from wolftownjeff:

My game is firing balls without being plunged.
If I walk away from a 4 player game for awhile the game launches balls?
Madding.

Free multiball? That's a feature!

1 month later
#7743 32 days ago

If you have a 1KVA variac you'd like to sell please PM me.

I'm trying to regulate the CFM of some series-wound fan motors.

Thanks, no flames please.

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