(Topic ID: 183206)

American Pinball Houdini thread


By lllvjr

2 years ago



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#2151 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

This is a simple adjustment in the software coil settings. No game knows the installation setup or leveling and every setup is different hence the reason some don't have a great experience at location test sites. They install and sometimes skip the dialing in part. The catapult power is different on a 5 degree level playfield setup over a 7 degree fast play setup. Set correctly this thing is as accurate as Michael Jordan!

But auto-adjustment will usually be better since it will note when a shot is missed and adjust power accordingly if it keeps missing. This will account for wear over time when the game drifts from the initial "perfect" adjustment and require no interaction with a human. It wouldn't be that hard to program. I'd like to see it in the game.

#2152 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

I thought the software auto-adjusted, like Ghost Flips on MB. It doesn't?

We did pay around with this (and Joe keeps saying it) and I continue to look at it, however, the challenge with auto-adjustment, is there is no way to know with any level of certainty which way it missed, e.g. too low/short or too high, and making adjustments the wrong way in an automated fashion could do far more harm than good. For example, even if I look to see did it end up in the upper catapult when it should go to the subway, a common landing place on a short throw, that still does not mean it was a short throw, since I've seen a high throw end up there as well. It would have been nice to have a sensor on the front of the trunk to detect a short throw, but that was not feasible. In most environments, once you get the setting right it is quite reliable.

Quoted from spandol:

I'm worried that with the distance the ball travels, if it doesn't make it, some things are going to be breaking. Even if it makes it, I assume the inside of the truck is made to take the forceful hits its getting?

The trunk is a pretty heavy gauge metal and the outside covering is of a very strong, durable and expensive material (and we did look at ways to make it cheaper but the durability was not even remotely acceptable). We talked about having a purple felt inside covering to match the backglass, but that would never hold up since the ball tends to hit the same spot all the time. I suspect that if the ball is always hitting the front lip on the way into the trunk, than after tons of hits it will show some wear, but hey, it is an old steamer trunk, and Matt from Back Alley put in a lot of effort to make it look old and well traveled, so a little extra wear would be fine. We have done testing where we pounded the front of it for hours without it breaking (which was not the case with the cheaper versions). There are a dozen machines out on location, with thousands of plays, and I am not aware of any machines where missed catapult throws have caused any damage, but it is a steel ball moving at high velocity, so I'm not going to say it will never happen.

#2153 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

We did pay around with this (and Joe keeps saying it) and I continue to look at it, however, the challenge with auto-adjustment, is there is no way to know with any level of certainty which way it missed, e.g. too low/short or too high, and making adjustments the wrong way in an automated fashion could do far more harm than good. For example, even if I look to see did it end up in the upper catapult when it should go to the subway, a common landing place on a short throw, that still does not mean it was a short throw, since I've seen a high throw end up there as well. It would have been nice to have a sensor on the front of the trunk to detect a short throw, but that was not feasible. In most environments, once you get the setting right it is quite reliable.

If it's reliable once you set it manually, then more than 2 misses in a row in the future would likely be short throws from age/wear, so you can +1 the baseline. That doesn't work, +2 the baseline to slightly increase the power of the throw. Still missing? Jump the other way to -1 baseline, then -2 baseline, then alternate +3, -3, +4, -4, etc until you get success. It wouldn't have to kick in often, and shouldn't unless two launches in a row are missed, but it could work.

If there are misses detected, you could also "ghost adjust" by rapidly repeating the shot automatically when a game is over.

#2154 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

If it's reliable once you set it manually, then more than 2 misses in a row in the future would likely be short throws from age/wear, so you can +1 the baseline. That doesn't work, +2 the baseline to slightly increase the power of the throw. Still missing? Jump the other way to -1 baseline, then -2 baseline, then alternate +3, -3, +4, -4, etc until you get success. It wouldn't have to kick in often, and shouldn't unless two launches in a row are missed, but it could work.
If there are misses detected, you could also "ghost adjust" by rapidly repeating the shot automatically when a game is over.

Unfortunately there is no way to just automatically keep feeding the ball to the catapult.

Not sure the 'over time will be short' is a valid assumption, maybe the return spring has gotten weak over time, so now it is throwing too strong since there is less resistance. That may not be realistic, but you get my point that assuming it gets shorter over time may not be something you want to bet on.

You would never want to make a judgement based on a single throw, so you would always have to look at X throws before making any type of a decision. You then also have to be concerned with the owner/operator making a change to coil strength, that then makes the historical tracking to be invalid. Or maybe the machine gets moved and is now at a different pitch, etc. So, lots of moving variables that need to be account for and or warned about, so I'm not comfortable that at this point we can reliably make decisions without risking doing more harm then good.

As I said I will continue to look at it, and I can see at some point taking what we have and what we might enhance and exposing an 'experimental' auto-adjust feature. But before that I need to do a lot more testing and collect a lot more data, and right now finishing up magician modes and other things are the priority. But, it is an interesting intellectual exercise.

11
#2155 1 year ago

oooooh, look just what got here.

Houdini is here (resized).JPG

#2156 1 year ago

Right next to GOT.
Only played one game, made the trunk twice no problem.

Gorgeous machine all around. guess what i'm gonna do tonight and tomorrow and come back with a review.

houdini (resized).JPG

#2157 1 year ago

rosh here are the photos you asked for regarding my plunger issue. The auto plunge works fine. Only the manual plunge has issues

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#2158 1 year ago

Update: when in Trunk MB I had 2 balls left. I shot one off right flipper and it went into the magic hole, I used the left flipper to shoot the seance scoop because seance was lit and I wanted to bring that in. I suppose due to the subway it didn’t count and 2 balls were shot out of the scoop and play continued without seance. Not sure if any way to fix that so it notices or if it was just such perfect timing it didn’t count. Anyways, wanted to put it out there for you rosh.

I’ll try to log more stuff when I can. I’ve had a ball or too end prematurely due to a ball being released from the left post during play or after a trunk mb shot. Don’t have more specifics than that. Sorry!

Protip. Set up seance and trunk mb. Then use alleyway to start straight jacket mode with inverted for 4x jackpots and try to bring in both mb.... my score went

I truly love this game. If you think about what you’re doing and set things up you can really blow up your score. I am sure rosh has some more tips. Doing 2x Indian needles and bringing in the MB is also awesome. Back hand alleyway and inner loop lock shots. It’s way easier once you learn where it is.

UPDATE 2: 10:19pm
Alright, so it seems that I broke the game again lol. So when you set up multiballs together, different logic or code issues seems to come up. I had trunk mb, and then got into seance. After both were stacked I hit a magic hole and it gave me 20 second ball save time. Shortly after I drained out.... it didn’t shoot back the 2 balls I had, it only shot back 1. However, the seance mb kept going even though trunk didn’t. The ghost was continually on the screen and letters were flashing. At this point the stage opened back up and I could start modes. I finally drained after starting a mode in seance and then it ended seance and the ball. Lol.

I have my door open and I don’t see a usb extension or anything of the sort. I wanna send some logs over because little oddities like this seem to occur during stacking of different things and ending of others simultaneously. Here is a photo of the inside of the coin door box. rosh or others please help locate it so I can log it for all of us. I’d like to go back to playing soon.

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#2159 1 year ago

USB Extension cable likely fell to back of cabinet during shipping

#2160 1 year ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

I’ve had a ball or too end prematurely due to a ball being released from the left post during play .

This happened to me last night as well....only once

#2161 1 year ago
Quoted from Malibu-SS:

This happened to me last night as well....only once

Pretty sure this is fixed in the code soon to be released.

#2162 1 year ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

here are the photos you asked for regarding my plunger issue. The auto plunge works fine. Only the manual plunge has issues

Thanks for the photo. It makes sense the auto plunger would be fine. There are spotting holes to be sure the mech is properly positioned. Due to the way the shooter assembly mounts, not as precise. I've shared this with the production manager so they can review with the folks on the line that install these as well as the inspection team.

You should be able to just lift the playfield, and slightly loosen the three bolts that hold the shooter assembly and shift it over slightly and then tighten them backdown.

If you need further assistance, send me a PM.

#2163 1 year ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

I suppose due to the subway it didn’t count and 2 balls were shot out of the scoop and play continued without seance.

Since magic shop not active during Multiball, it would quickly send to scoop to throw it out, if the ball came in right then, it would either double stack and not register or the scoop would think it was a fallback. So, likely just unfortunate timing.

Quoted from VividPsychosis:

Protip. Set up seance and trunk mb. Then use alleyway to start straight jacket mode with inverted for 4x jackpots and try to bring in both mb.... my score went

Inverted will be 3X on next release, but starting through stage alley then double that. The other thing is to get milkcan playfield multiplier raised before/during this (easier said that done, but during seance the magnets will sometimes feed the loop for you, so good to focus on ramp shots off the left flipper during MB), and you can get that to be 24X on jackpots, which I believe is the highest scoring in the game, outside of mini-magician modes.

I typically try to start stage modes via stage alley to get the double value on the mode, can also be extremely value with Milkcan Escape (if you make the shots), since that will give you the playfield multiplier without having to hit the ramp shot after the loop. That is the most valuable stage mode and if you are good at it, it maxs the playfield multiplier.

The next release has playing tips during attract mode.

Quoted from VividPsychosis:

After both were stacked I hit a magic hole and it gave me 20 second ball save time.

Hmm, Magic shop won't be active during Multiball, so not sure how that could happen, be curious to see the log. At the same time a lot of stuff has been changed/fixed since that code, so, we will see if it happens after the code update. If you pull the logs, just zip and email to josh@american-pinball.com

#2164 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

Thanks for the photo. It makes sense the auto plunger would be fine. There are spotting holes to be sure the mech is properly positioned. Due to the way the shooter assembly mounts, not as precise. I've shared this with the production manager so they can review with the folks on the line that install these as well as the inspection team.
You should be able to just lift the playfield, and slightly loosen the three bolts that hold the shooter assembly and shift it over slightly and then tighten them backdown.
If you need further assistance, send me a PM.

Thanks. I checked my cabinet for the elusive USB extension. I did not find anything laying in the bottom/back of the cabinet. I called AP support number but hit a voicemail which said this voicemail is not initialized and cannot accept messages FYI. Hoping to get that replaced. I only have an Alien (unworking), Dialed in, and Houdini so, with the addition of Houdini I basicall am playing that 100% of the time and would love to converse about different little quirks that pop up

#2165 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

Hmm, Magic shop won't be active during Multiball, so not sure how that could happen, be curious to see the log. At the same time a lot of stuff has been changed/fixed since that code, so, we will see if it happens after the code update. If you pull the logs, just zip and email to josh@american-pinball.com

Dunno how it happened, but I assure you it did, lol. Was attempting to shoot that games log over to you right when it ended. Thats when I posted the comment about not being able to find the usb extension cable. =/ womp womp

#2166 1 year ago

Thank-you,Rosh,For us still waiting for our pins,your comments on progress is greatly appreciated!!

21
#2167 1 year ago

Update on Add-ons.

Interior Side Art is now in stock and distributors are being notified about their availability. Priced at $99. Sometime in the next couple of days they will be up on our website for purchase.

Changes have been made to the magic glass, and sounds like the price will be higher than originally projected. They have now added a "hard coat" that I am being told will make it more durable, scratch resistant and easier to clean (I assume these are all issues with current offerings, I'm not that familiar with them). I have not yet seen one installed. Sounds like it will a few weeks before these will be in stock.

Shaker Motors -- these are not yet available, not sure of when it will be, but suspect sooner rather than later. Installing these will be four bolts to T-nuts already in the cabinet, a couple of screws for the cover and then plugging it into a nearby board. So easily installed by pretty much anyone.

Houdini Side Art (resized).jpg

houdini side art left side (resized).jpgHoudini side art right side (resized).jpg

#2168 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

Update on Add-ons.
Interior Side Art is now in stock and distributors are being notified about their availability. Priced at $99. Sometime in the next couple of days they will be up on our website for purchase.

Is this just a stick and peel thing, or the side art is on some form of panel that you install in the game?

#2169 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

In most environments, once you get the setting right it is quite reliable.

Been very reliable on a location machine here in Dallas. The whole game has actually. Good job API.

And good for you guys for coming on this board and facing and responding to questions and issues directly. Makes me want one even more.

#2171 1 year ago

So when I order a Houdini through mt distributor will these be installed at the factory or shipped separately with the game?

#2172 1 year ago

Agreed. I need to know whether to go ahead and have my distributor ship my Houdini or if the Side Art and Magic Glass will be added at the factory.

#2173 1 year ago

I love the side art. Let's see if we can identify all of the people in the art.

The guy with the swami hat looks like Carter the Great.

The Chinese guy looks looks like Chung Ling Soo (aka William Robinson) who died performing the Bullet Catch when the "fake" gun misfired. Robinson pretended to be Chinese in public to build his brand as "Marvelous Chinese Conjurer" and was a long time friend of Houdini.

The one photo shows Mac King in the water with the gold fish; one of is signature tricks. King is a very successful magician with a long running show at Harrah's in Las Vegas.

There is a shadow of Nosferatu haunting the wall.

Anyone else recognize anyone else?

#2174 1 year ago
Quoted from Videogod:

Agreed. I need to know whether to go ahead and have my distributor ship my Houdini or if the Side Art and Magic Glass will be added at the factory.

My distributor had contacted me with option to have them added at factory

#2175 1 year ago

Setup and on Location at On Tilt @ AYCE Gogi in Van Nuys, CA. Game playing great and everyone loving it!

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#2176 1 year ago

Here is my latest update/mod. Incase you like to play in the dark like I do, here is a photo from when I got the game and a photo of my game now. next up: I just gotta get those side blades and await my invsiglass

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#2177 1 year ago

Haha, rosh, did you add a spinal tap Easter egg!? 11...

#2178 1 year ago

Went back to play 10,15 games at VUK today. This time I DID feel like the game was set up very floaty - I am not sure if they are changing the game setup or what. The scoop kickout was really unpredictable too. (Not as unpredictable as my IJ mode hole kickout, but noticeable. Took me a few games to adjust)

Still very fun game, I’m still in, I think I’ve played enough on it I’m starting to really look for the game’s personality and consistency. Hoping when I get it home I can get it set up a little tiny bit faster.

Compared to the DI on location there, Houdini was excellent. dI was fun as hell, but it felt like that game was under water - floaty floaty floaty. Also, the shooter Rod is broken so that was pretty frustrating. Houdini still looks absolutely incredible in the lineup

#2179 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Went back to play 10,15 games at VUK today. This time I DID feel like the game was set up very floaty - I am not sure if they are changing the game setup or what. The scoop kickout was really unpredictable too. (Not as unpredictable as my IJ mode hole kickout, but noticeable. Took me a few games to adjust)
Still very fun game, I’m still in, I think I’ve played enough on it I’m starting to really look for the game’s personality and consistency. Hoping when I get it home I can get it set up a little tiny bit faster.
Compared to the DI on location there, Houdini was excellent. dI was fun as hell, but it felt like that game was under water - floaty floaty floaty. Also, the shooter Rod is broken so that was pretty frustrating. Houdini still looks absolutely incredible in the lineup

Its a shame they dont take 3 min and set them up better

#2180 1 year ago
Quoted from doomid:

Setup and on Location at On Tilt @ AYCE Gogi in Van Nuys, CA. Game playing great and everyone loving it!

Awesome. Was wondering when you were getting it. Will have to make a trip up there in the next few days.

#2181 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Went back to play 10,15 games at VUK today. This time I DID feel like the game was set up very floaty - I am not sure if they are changing the game setup or what. The scoop kickout was really unpredictable too. (Not as unpredictable as my IJ mode hole kickout, but noticeable. Took me a few games to adjust)
Still very fun game, I’m still in, I think I’ve played enough on it I’m starting to really look for the game’s personality and consistency. Hoping when I get it home I can get it set up a little tiny bit faster.
Compared to the DI on location there, Houdini was excellent. dI was fun as hell, but it felt like that game was under water - floaty floaty floaty. Also, the shooter Rod is broken so that was pretty frustrating. Houdini still looks absolutely incredible in the lineup

It’s already been raised once due to my request. It was much much worse a weekend ago. Totally flat. My scoop on my game is still unpredictable. I am struggling to get the upper catapult to hit its target to return to right flipper I think I gotta adjust the wireform.
I just broke 1 million for the first time. It was a fantastic game.

#2182 1 year ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

It’s already been raised once due to my request. It was much much worse a weekend ago. Totally flat. My scoop on my game is still unpredictable. I am struggling to get the upper catapult to hit its target to return to right flipper I think I gotta adjust the wireform.
I just broke 1 million for the first time. It was a fantastic game.

How do you activate the upper catapult? I couldn’t figure that out

#2183 1 year ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

It’s already been raised once due to my request. It was much much worse a weekend ago. Totally flat. My scoop on my game is still unpredictable. I am struggling to get the upper catapult to hit its target to return to right flipper I think I gotta adjust the wireform.
I just broke 1 million for the first time. It was a fantastic game.

A mil always feels good on this machine.

#2184 1 year ago
Quoted from Cserold:

Been very reliable on a location machine here in Dallas. The whole game has actually. Good job API.
And good for you guys for coming on this board and facing and responding to questions and issues directly. Makes me want one even more.

Where in Dallas?

#2185 1 year ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

Where in Dallas?

Place called The Cidercade

#2186 1 year ago
Quoted from Cserold:

Place called The Cidercade

Went this am thanks! Incredible lineup. Had Houdini and bm66 pretty much to myself alllll morning.

#2187 1 year ago

Can’t wait to try Houdini!

#2188 1 year ago

Best game of the weekend!

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#2189 1 year ago

Played about 6 games at Ayci Gogi on Sat night. What an amazing game, all aspects. Display, theme, video clips and animations, cabinet, playfield, shots, call outs, that trunk shot is just damn fun.
So happy ive ordered one!

#2190 1 year ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Ok. Now you have me curious. Why does Stern put those or the holes in there then? For shipping?

You got me, brother!

#2191 1 year ago

We got ours today!

unnamed-3 (resized).jpg

#2192 1 year ago

Damn Houdini, GOTLE, and DI is a nice three pin combo

#2193 1 year ago
Quoted from ZMeny:

Damn Houdini, GOTLE, and DI is a nice three pin combo

How bout some Houdini, Dialed In, Alien? I know Greg would approve! Lol Those are my babies.

Btw, just booked TPF! Woot!

#2194 1 year ago
Quoted from ZMeny:

Damn Houdini, GOTLE, and DI is a nice three pin combo

We have 24 total! You guys should come up sometime.

#2195 1 year ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

How bout some Houdini, Dialed In, Alien? I know Greg would approve! Lol Those are my babies.
Btw, just booked TPF! Woot!

I’d take that trio in a flash! Jealous haha.

Quoted from pyramidschemebar:

We have 24 total! You guys should come up sometime.</blockquote

You have an incredible collection. We would love to next time we are up north!

#2197 1 year ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

Best game of the weekend!

You mean best game of the year.

#2198 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

You mean best game of the year.

lol, Houdini? quite possibly. My score? Nah, I will beat that especially with 6x straight jacket.

#2199 1 year ago

Anybody have ideas on how many are going out? Still haven't heard from any east coast distros on shipping

#2200 1 year ago
Quoted from rosh:

with side art

Noticed that in the pic right away. Looks great - even from a few feet back!

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