(Topic ID: 183206)

American Pinball Houdini thread


By lllvjr

2 years ago



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#1251 2 years ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

Hey rosh, hope you had a nice Halloween. I had a few questions about the game I hope you could help answer. 1. Do the lights inside the chains near the mid/bottom portion of the playfield represent anything related to the gameplay or your journey through the game, or are they just for aesthetics? 2. What is the function of the second catapult? Lastly, and related to a different topic, the shop on your website appears to not be functioning correctly. I attempted to purchase a Houdini shirt, but no size option was available and after it showed 1 in the cart, when I went to check out it just says nothing is in the cart...

1) those lights track your progress on the 5 movies, 5 jail escapes (hurry ups) and 5 secret missions (combos). Each of those will have a magician mode if you can complete all five (well, for movies you just need to start all 5). They appear in a faint version of the color associated with that aspect of the game and then turn full on when you have completed one of those items. There is a lock at end of each segment that will then light when you have complete/started the five, indicating that next 'start' of the associate feature will give you the magician mode. There are also bonus points tied to the number of chain links completed. There are also settings to enable extra balls, and to set how many links are needed, for each of the those segments. For an average player, you might choose to enable those to increase your ability to get to the Master Magician Mode. Pretty sure those will default to 'off'.

2) The second catapult is used to throw the ball back to the right inlane. It actually is used very rarely, since it is only used in a couple of modes or if you somehow you get to the lower catapult when the lock is not lit, in which case the ball will not go through the trunk to the subway, but will go through and be diverted to the upper catapult and then get sent back. Be nice to use it more, but, I did not want to have too many things require making the left inner loop shot.

3) We are working on a new website. Send an email to sales@american-pinball.com and someone will get back to you on and provide assistance.

13
#1252 2 years ago

Huge news! Seance worked last night, we were able to make contact with great Harry Houdini. However I think the message is meant more for American Pinball

HH (resized).JPG

#1253 2 years ago
Quoted from Aquapin:

Huge news! Seance worked last night, we were able to make contact with great Harry Houdini. However I think the message is meant more for American Pinball

My seance was similar...
Ouija board said order now!

#1254 2 years ago

I'm likely never going to purchase a N.I.B. pin, but Houdini is coming close. I just hope one shows up in the wild somewhere close by so I can dump quarters in it.

#1255 2 years ago
Quoted from Aquapin:

Huge news! Seance worked last night, we were able to make contact with great Harry Houdini. However I think the message is meant more for American Pinball

That is Fricken funny. lol Thanks. I am hearing the same ghostly chants in my own house! Though that might be me sleep talking.

#1256 2 years ago
Quoted from swillie:

I'm likely never going to purchase a N.I.B. pin, but Houdini is coming close. I just hope one shows up in the wild somewhere close by so I can dump quarters in it.

I would be careful about waiting to get one of these used. I collect coins and sometimes you can get coins below the price offered by the mint and sometimes you will never be able to get the coin for what it was issued for. I believe this machine will not be touchable at the offer price or below unless it completely tanks. Even a route machine will hold its value and if you get one, it will have to be refurbished which will cost. It could be a case of $7,000 NIB or possibly $9,000+ for a pre-owned machine. I personally don't care whether or not its value goes up or down because all of my machines have appreciated since I purchased them and I know I could not afford to get them today in the shape I purchased them in many years ago.

#1257 2 years ago

With Alien faltering, JJP charging the price of a newly used car, Stern stripping more than brake caliper cleaner on a painted car, and Spooky making themes I don't really care for - it is either Houdini or the next CGC re-make for me in Spring 2018.

Who is going to deliver first? This looks REALLY good, but MB/CC are two very fun classics that I KNOW are good games too.

$7000 at the ready, American Pinball....

#1258 2 years ago
Quoted from pbwizard14:

I would be careful about waiting to get one of these used. I collect coins and sometimes you can get coins below the price offered by the mint and sometimes you will never be able to get the coin for what it was issued for. I believe this machine will not be touchable at the offer price or below unless it completely tanks. Even a route machine will hold its value and if you get one, it will have to be refurbished which will cost. It could be a case of $7,000 NIB or possibly $9,000+ for a pre-owned machine. I personally don't care whether or not its value goes up or down because all of my machines have appreciated since I purchased them and I know I could not afford to get them today in the shape I purchased them in many years ago.

If you can buy it new in box for $7,000 and they are going to keep making them as long as there is demand why would the price go up on a used one ?

#1259 2 years ago
Quoted from murfe88:

If you can buy it new in box for $7,000 and they are going to keep making them as long as there is demand why would the price go up on a used one ?

Exactly. Anyone been able to get a better price than the $6,999 sticker?

#1260 2 years ago
Quoted from murfe88:

If you can buy it new in box for $7,000 and they are going to keep making them as long as there is demand why would the price go up on a used one ?

I strongly doubt in a production world they will simply just keep making them as long as there is a line... With complex assemblies and Many multiple vendors it simply does not work like that. Not as simple as "hey Joe called, throw another waffle on the grill!". Parts, vendors, and discounts are based on Mass orders and quantities. You don't just order 3 more playfields etc. Yes, if there is a Large pent up demand to quantify a Full second, third, etc run I am sure it will happen but not in a don't worry we'll make more type deal. JMO.

#1261 2 years ago

The run will probably last a year or 2 and when the dust settles there may be between 4000 and 8000 (maybe a few more or less) machines available TOTAL. People will not be selling them and routes will not take them off just because they are no longer being produced. Once the run ends completely, if the game is indeed a home run then the prices will go up. It's that simple. Supply and demand just like when MM was first produced, only 4000 or so machines and because it is popular its price soared. The number of all the machines being produced right now, today, is going to shrink because there are several companies making machines; Heighway, Spooky, Stern, JJP, CPC, and American, at the same time, people can only afford one maybe 2 of them over the course of a year or 2. When production stops all of them will have LOW production numbers making them RARE and driving up their price if they are popular. Unpopular games will not move in price very much because nobody will be trying to get one after production ends. If I can't buy a JJP POTC and a Houdini, I have to choose and that is a big deal because neither company will be producing them forever, although JJP is still offering WOZ and Hobbit, but not every model.

#1262 2 years ago
Quoted from pbwizard14:

The run will probably last a year if that long and when the dust settles there may be between 4000 and 8000 (maybe a few more or less) machines available TOTAL. People will not be selling them and routes will not take them off just because they are no longer being produced. Once the run ends completely, if the game is indeed a home run then the prices will go up. It's that simple. Supply and demand just like when MM was first produced, only 4000 or so machines and because it is popular its price soared. The number of all the machines being produced right now, today, is going to shrink because there are several companies making machines; Heighway, Spooky, Stern, JJP, Planet, and American, at the same time, people can only afford one maybe 2 of them over the course of a year. When production stops all of them will have LOW production numbers making them RARE and driving up their price if they are popular. Unpopular games will not move in price very much because nobody will be trying to get one after production ends. If I can't buy a JJP POTC and a Houdini, I have to choose and that is a big deal because neither company will be producing them forever, although JJP is still offering WOZ and Hobbit, but not every model. Also, American might completely close the Houdini line to open a new line. In some regard, you do not want to compete against yourself by having more than one machine at a time available. This could accidently hurt new title sales.

It's stupid for the vast majority of people interested to order now, when they have not seen or played one. So saying order now is ridiculous.

Provided it's a good & reliable machine, per my previous posts, it should prove very popular in Europe due to its pricing. But the orders aren't going to come in until people actually get a chance to see and play. Also looks like they're going to miss EU's largest show this year, and possibly also the world's (for 2017). There's not even any decent (and recent) video footage yet either.

Also, there is absolutely no chance in hell of them producing 4-8000 machines in 12 months. JJP have a much larger facility and production line and can produce only about 4000 machines a year, give or take, maximum. CGC committed major resources to AFMr & MMr this year, and their estimate was 3000-3500 for the year.

Based on the size of the production areas AP have shown, I'd expect the first 1000 to take *at least* 6 months. Maybe more if there are hiccups and lessons learned.

Perhaps demand is so strong after a few are out in the wild, they will choose to expand the size and pace of production, though, if they have that option.

If somehow over the course of 3 or 4 years, they produce 4000 of them, they'll be available well below list, second hand.

If you're basing your estimates and buying decisions on the kind of numbers and theories in your post, I'd urge you to reassess.

#1263 2 years ago

pbwizard, You should go check out the Bitcoin thread, your logic is so convoluted and foundation is so wrong it would fit in perfectly over there...

#1264 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

It's stupid for the vast majority of people interested to order now, when they have not seen or played one. So saying order now is ridiculous.
Provided it's a good & reliable machine, per my previous posts, it should prove very popular in Europe due to its pricing. But the orders aren't going to come in until people actually get a chance to see and play. Also looks like they're going to miss EU's largest show this year, and possibly also the world's (for 2017). There's not even any decent (and recent) video footage yet either.
Also, there is absolutely no chance in hell of them producing 4-8000 machines in 12 months. JJP have a much larger facility and production line and can produce only about 4000 machines a year, give or take, maximum. CGC committed major resources to AFMr & MMr this year, and their estimate was 3000-3500 for the year.
Based on the size of the production areas AP have shown, I'd expect the first 1000 to take *at least* 6 months. Maybe more if there are hiccups and lessons learned.
Perhaps demand is so strong after a few are out in the wild, they will choose to expand the size and pace of production, though, if they have that option.
If somehow over the course of 3 or 4 years, they produce 4000 of them, they'll be available well below list, second hand.
If you're basing your estimates and buying decisions on the kind of numbers and theories in your post, I'd urge you to reassess.

This post proves my point on the limited number of machines and the price you will pay for a used one. You guys act like these machines are all over the country for people to play, guess what, they aren't and that should not be a factor. If it gets good reviews and it's a theme you're interested in then buy it. I have purchased several machines I never played before because they were popular and looked interesting and guess what...I didn't like them and sold them without taking a loss.

#1265 2 years ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

pbwizard, You should go check out the Bitcoin thread, your logic is so convoluted and foundation is so wrong it would fit in perfectly over there...

You must not know much about supply, demand, and rarity. I don't know what the production numbers are, but the other post shed some light on it and it proved my point about machine availability. The pool of potential buyers is not going to grow very much, so with so many companies competing and all putting out titles people are interested in, they will have to choose what to buy. Even a 4 year run would not increase sales or the number of machines available for a particular title if people are spending their money on somebody else's games. I believe part of the price hikes people are complaining about now is being driven by what I am talking about. I guess that doesn't register with you. I am also saying that thinking a title will decrease in value to a price that is more affordable than a NIB just because it is a used game is not a safe assumption with this competitive climate because the price could soar instead due to rarity.

#1266 2 years ago
Quoted from pbwizard14:

This post proves my point on the limited number of machines and the price you will pay for a used one. You guys act like these machines are all over the country for people to play, guess what, they aren't and that should not be a factor. If it gets good reviews and it's a theme you're interested in then buy it. I have purchased several machines I never played before because they were popular and looked interesting and guess what...I didn't like them and sold them without taking a loss.

No, it doesn't. I don't think you understand the market.

People should not expect not to take a loss on these when they sell them. First of all they're not an established company. Second of all, there's a glut of used games coming onto the market. CGC have gone from 0-100mph in a few months, and look set to become the #2 manufacturer by volume next year, with 3 remakes on the line. JJP can't produce many more machines without expanding or moving their facility, but since everyone wants one and they're so expensive, people are selling some of their existing collection to get on the waiting list for a DI or PotC (and still WOZ). AP of course. Spooky. Stern ... people seem to be holding onto Spike and Spike 2 games for very little time (perhaps fear of them falling apart / node board failure), so there are lots of lightly used new games for sale. That's not a market that can support rising prices for new machines. Low production, high demand 90s machines look like they'll all be redone by CGC, too - since they took over manufacturing from Stern, original MM and AFM prices have plunged.

That said, unless the machine proves to be a turkey (doesn't look like it), loss on selling should be quite modest, given how reasonable the pricing compared to features looks at the moment.

#1267 2 years ago

Of course you take a loss, at least when you sell something that you can buy new.

I bought a SW Pro, and put it on for sale after one week. Lost about 400€.

#1268 2 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Of course you take a loss, at least when you sell something that you can buy new.
I bought a SW Pro, and put it on for sale after one week. Lost about 400€.

You lost me at "bought a SW Pro..". Sorry dude, they can't all be winners. Let's hope Houdini is

#1269 2 years ago
Quoted from pbwizard14:

You must not know much about supply, demand, and rarity.

Nope, I only studied economics at Univ. of Chicago.

My point was that the post belonged in the Bitcoin thread because you weren't making a cogent point, your underlying assumptions are wrong, and you didn't use punctuation properly. That describes 1/2 the posts over there.

However I do think your perspective on the market is a little off for several reasons:

- 4-8k Houdini machines - no going to happen in 2 years, and probably not ever
- If there were 4-8K machines they would not be rare, they would be one of the largest runs of any machine
- Your assumption on how many NIB machines people can buy a year - irrelevant in this context as the number buyers appears to still be growing and there are many other sales factors
- There are no machines being produced today that will end up to be considered rare, especially by stern and JJP. They make them as long as they can sell them and Stern now brings back popular titles after the original license expires - ACDC, MET, and other vaults
- Magic Girl & TBL may be rare, but again, they are not being produced today. Houdini may end up rare, but not if they make 4K of them. Rarity also needs likeability in order for values to increase.
- By the MM prices didn't soar until 10 years after the production run, not when they stopped making them

Pinball is at, or near, a temporary peak of popularity. When the intensity of the fad fades, prices will decline again. I'm not predicting a total crash, but the sales and secondary pricing will not be sustained indefinitely.

#1270 2 years ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

When the intensity of the fad fades, prices will decline again. I'm not predicting a total crash, but the sales and secondary pricing will not be sustained indefinitely.

Let's get the show onthe road, then! I have a bunch of games I want to buy! Hurry up!!

#1271 2 years ago

Really enjoyable interview with Josh Kugler on the K-Man podcast. I'm just loving American Pinball more and more every time they say something.

#1272 2 years ago
Quoted from Ericc123:

Really enjoyable interview with Josh Kugler on the K-Man podcast. I'm just loving American Pinball more and more every time they say something.

Agreed, that was a great interview. It had me thinking, wow, Houdini sounds REALLY cool. I love how they have knowledge of his actual life, and that they integrated it into the game. Definitely got my attention!

#1273 2 years ago

Great interview Josh! Loved hearing about the depth of thinking that went into this title. As a magic historian, I can really appreciate the details taken from Houdini's career and put into the game. I'm coding a machine myself and it was fun to hear your approach to rules, modes and combos. I like that you've taken a breadth-first approach to the rules giving players a lot of things to do and approaches to take. Then you've provided a substantial amount of depth to the game. This game checks so many of my boxes.

I placed a refundable deposit on a game with GAP but this interviewed locked in my money on Houdini. As cool as GOTG looks, I just can't see an equivalent value in the $7000 price point anywhere else.

BTW, love him or hate him, Kaneda provides a valuable service to the community. Way to go K-man! Thanks for an outstanding interview.

#1274 2 years ago

Can someone post a link to the interview?

#1275 2 years ago
Quoted from Cobra:

Can someone post a link to the interview?

I'll send it to you privately. Some on Pinside might have a hissy fit otherwise.

#1276 2 years ago

ok thanks

#1277 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'll send it to you privately. Some on Pinside might have a hissy fit otherwise.

Me too please...

#1278 2 years ago
Quoted from Aquapin:

Me too please...

Please include me on the Email interview Please!!

#1279 2 years ago
Quoted from Aquapin:

Me too please...

Quoted from Yelobird:

Please include me on the Email interview Please!!

I think it's silly we have to resort to going underground this way but emails have been sent.

#1280 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I think it's silly we have to resort to going underground this way but emails have been sent.

Agreed. I suppose it’s the prerogative of the moderators to ban the podcaster in question, but silencing the rest of the community that may want to reference something he is associated with that is likely of interest to the rest of the community is ridiculous. By the way, the podcasts in question are readily available on iTunes and everywhere else podcasts are available.

#1281 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I think it's silly we have to resort to going underground this way but emails have been sent.

I agree, but I understand that Kaneda was a royal pain in the ass to Robin/Pinside Mgmt for a time and made the bed that he now lies in.

Anyone looking to find the Houdini podcast can just google "Kaneda's Pinball Podcast".

#1282 2 years ago
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

I agree, but I understand that Kaneda was a royal pain in the ass to Robin/Pinside Mgmt for a time and made the bed that he now lies in.
Anyone looking to find the Houdini podcast can just google "Kaneda's Pinball Podcast".

I’m glad you mentioned his name. I thought the Pinside black ops team might swoop in or something.

#1283 2 years ago

That was a great interview and I now want a Houdini. I never knew there were 3 magnets in the game. Also the talk of 3 to 4 mini wizard modes and one final mode is awesome.

I'm trying very hard to get these guys to Pintastic New England this summer. It's looking good after talking to them last at expo.

#1284 2 years ago

Hey Rosh.

What parts are being used? Are they readily available? This is looking really good!

#1285 2 years ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

Hey Rosh.
What parts are being used? Are they readily available? This is looking really good!

There is a post previous in this thread where Rosh went over that. W/b flippers and mechs, Data east bumpers

#1286 2 years ago

I'd appreciate a link to the interview too.

Thank you.

Hogey

#1288 2 years ago

of all the games coming out this is the one i'm waiting for, and man i can't wait!

i'm curious does distribution will start everywhere at the same time, meaning europe, canada, usa.

#1289 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

There is a post previous in this thread where Rosh went over that. W/b flippers and mechs, Data east bumpers

Thanks, 26 pages and not enough time to go through them all. Thx again

#1290 2 years ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

Thanks, 26 pages and not enough time to go through them all. Thx again

Here is a link to all of Josh's comments so far in this thread. Worth reading if you've just begun following.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/american-pinball-houdini-thread?tu=rosh

#1291 2 years ago

Any update on the Magical Houdini Glass? When will it be available? Price?

#1292 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Any update on the Magical Houdini Glass? When will it be available? Price?

And the side blades and shaker motor...price, availability?? Will they be available to be installed at the factory?

#1293 2 years ago

I know that Rosh had said that he's trying to get a better camera for some game play footage, but if they are shooting for shipping in the next few weeks (per the interview on the K-Man podcast) aren't they running out of time? The game looks great and I think some good video of it being played is only going to help with orders.

12
#1294 2 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

i'm curious does distribution will start everywhere at the same time, meaning europe, canada, usa.

North America first, then Europe and Australia. We have to work through CE and the like before we can start shipping overseas. It is my understanding we are in the process of finalizing things with distributors and adding some more. We do plan to get some sample games overseas as soon as we can.

Quoted from spfxted:

Any update on the Magical Houdini Glass? When will it be available? Price?

Quoted from konjurer:

And the side blades and shaker motor...price, availability?? Will they be available to be installed at the factory?

No updates on these at the moment, I'll share info as soon as I have it.

Quoted from Ericc123:

I know that Rosh had said that he's trying to get a better camera for some game play footage, but if they are shooting for shipping in the next few weeks (per the interview on the K-Man podcast) aren't they running out of time? The game looks great and I think some good video of it being played is only going to help with orders.

While I want to get the videos taken care of, right now we have more than enough orders to keep the line busy for a while, so not impacting sales in the short term. Hopefully in the next day or so I'll have what I need to do some video, but for some of you, you may not have to wait . . .

I'll be hosting a Houdini play testing event here at the American Pinball offices in Streamwood this Saturday from 11:00 AM until 7:00 PM (or maybe later if folks still want to play). If you are interested please send me a PM with an approximate time you want to stop by, just want to be sure we don't have too many folks here at one time. I'm not overly that concerned about it, since we should have three games set up for play, but opening it up here on pinside, one never knows.

Oh, and for those who can't make it, here is a photo you might enjoy. I will still not say production has started, since machines are not yet rolling off the end of the line (still waiting on a few parts), but they have started down it.

IMG_2809 (resized).JPG

#1295 2 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

I'll be hosting a Houdini play testing event here at the American Pinball offices in Streamwood this Saturday from 11:00 AM until 7:00 PM (or maybe later if folks still want to play). If you are interested please send me a PM with an approximate time you want to stop by, just want to be sure we don't have too many folks here at one time. I'm not overly that concerned about it, since we should have three games set up for play, but opening it up here on pinside, one never knows.
Oh, and for those who can't make it, here is a photo you might enjoy. I will still not say production has started, since machines are not yet rolling off the end of the line (still waiting on a few parts), but they have started down it.

If you don't mind the play being broadcast, it's probably worth you contacting deadflip

He's in the Chicago area, and it would certainly get the gameplay out there a bit more.

#1296 2 years ago

ROSH, you are the BEST at keeping us all informed on the progress of this machine! Fantastic to watch!

#1297 2 years ago
Quoted from konjurer:

And the side blades and shaker motor...price, availability?? Will they be available to be installed at the factory?

Yeah it would be good to know soon so I can budget accordingly.

#1298 2 years ago

Here is a video about Houdini for all of you to enjoy. can’t wait till mine arrives.

#1299 2 years ago

this is a better one.

#1300 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

this is a better one.

Take note of the image that is being displayed in that thumbnail, that is his mother, who he desperately tried to contact in the great beyond, when you next play the game or watch video of game play, see if you can . . .

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