I think that would look really good if you made the flipper a tiny bit smaller and added a little separation from the ball. Also has good potential for animation.

Font is a gigantic improvement.

Fair and true enough. So let’s let API be in business for many years Then demand they redesign the logo to our liking. Lol.

Current logo is fine. I would rather company time be spent on making the game better and not worrying about the logo.

Like to say the pinblades are some of the best in regards to the theme, artwork and how they contribute to the "world under the glass" As well they aren't simply mirrored copies.

I strongly dislike the suggested font and think the original font looks great. I liked the suggested logo better but the original logo is cool. There are some things that make for a bad logo but everything else is so subjective.

MRG = MR G. duh -- not enough sleep.

I agree with the flippers, they need to snap and you should not feel like you need to fight with them to make a shot. Thing I need to remember to do at shows, is to play the machine every once and while to monitor the flipper strength. Funny thing is, just powered up the game in my office that was at the show, and flippers are way too strong, just shows the difference in power at the hotel.

I'd rather be proactive on issues versus having false and inaccurate information spread, much harder to then get it corrected.

Anyone who has been paying attention knows that all pinball companies, even those that have been around for years have issues. I hope that we have learned from others mistakes so we don't repeat them, but naturally we will make some of our own. You will find I will be quick to acknowledge my mistakes or things that are not right. As we all know the cover-up is worse than the crime, not admitting issues is sort of the same thing. I will try to be as transparent as possible, obviously at times ownership my not agree with my approach on that. Naturally at times I will respectfully disagree with someone else is thinking or view (heck I do that to the folks here as well), and it was most of us do here on pinside (just some are not respectful or don't really try to understand the other persons viewpoint). Sometimes I won't say something when I think it is not going to result in a fruitful conversation.

I know a lot about pinball, having been playing since I was 9, but I certainly don't know it all and don't claim to be an expert on rules, history of games, etc. (I can be quite opinionated regardless). I know enough to be dangerous. I learn a lot at the shows from watching you guys play and talking to you. I learn at lot talking to others in the industry who are willing to share their knowledge and experience, even though they work for other companies. To be honest, I also learn a lot on pinside, if I stick to the right threads . Reading threads on likes an dislikes or 'best XYZ', helps me identify opportunities or come up with new ideas or, lets be honest, things I can 'borrow'. Hopefully I can then apply these things effectively to our theme and to make Houdini a great game to play and own. While pinside only represents a small portion of the pinball world, and can be overly negative at time, it is a snapshot of at least part of the pinball universe and there is some good stuff to be gleaned from it.

Scoring got out of control in the mid 90s (I've had Billion point end of ball bonuses on Roadshow) and started to go back down a little bit late in the wpc 95 era, when scores were back down to the millions. Of course it started when they put a fake zero on the end to make scoring 10 times higher. I guess that made sense when scoring was the primary and only 'measure' and 'objective', and big scores is what folks were focused on, and it probably helped draw players to a machine with higher scoring. But the numbers got so big they started to lose relevance, when you cant' remember if your scores was in the millions or billions that is a problem. If you score 500K on Houdini you know it was good game, break a million that is great game. I'm looking forward to seeing someone 'roll over' the main seven digit flip score display (the player display will go a few more digits, don't worry). Reminds me, I have not tested that in a long time.

Joe told me they did Woz scoring lower, given the time frame of the the WoZ theme, and we followed suit given the era Houdini lived. Does seem JJP has stuck with that, at least on some titles, so maybe it is fad. I do have to laugh when the skill shot on some games are higher scoring than a great score on Houdini. Ultimately what is important in scoring is proper balance in areas of the game, factoring in difficulty, risk/reward and limiting exploits (we will talk about 'Sharpe proofing it') . While I am not a top player by any means, nor do I really compete, I do spend time regularly revisiting scoring to get a good balance between modes and different objective areas. Risk and reward being a factor as well -- the starting the stage with the 2X shot is a good eample. Tougher/riskier shot to start a mode, but, doubles the value. My goals is that for most modes 'completing it successfully' should have similar total values, adjusted for risk (Milkcan escape, most valuable mode, really hard/risky to score). You won't find a STTNG style video mode, that with zero risk, and a known pattern, can give you more points than what you can typically get on any other mode in the game. Along those lines I tried to make sure our video mode would not be easy to master, can you learn to get good at it, absolutely, but you can't just memorize a pattern of flips or something like that.

As far as the logo. Can't say I totally love the logo, but I certainly don't hate it. Regardless, in my book that is not where I want us to put a lot of time and energy, at least not now. But you guys can feel free to draw new ones and I'll certainly share them with the team here. Joe just showed me a modified version of the white logo on the speaker panel, where it will now be cut tighter to the shape of the logo, which will reduce the amount of white material, and I think it will work better on the machine.

Logo case closed... Lets move on.... rosh you should see it as compliment...if people can only find stuff wrong (suggestive) with a logo means the game is top notch

Trust me, it's easier and cheaper to get it right at the beginning than once you've grown.

I’m glad they are way too strong!

As the shaker , side art and invisible glass have been generated as add-ons, does this mean that all wiring will be in place to add the shaker after if not included in build time ? Will distributors be selling these direct to consumer?

Yes, will be pre-wired and pre T-nutted (is that word?)

I believe you will be able to order them from your distributor when purchasing the game or direct from us after. If ordering Magic glass at time of order, it will likely ship on the machine, but could vary by distributor.

We are still working through some details, there is a chance that if purchasing all three, then they will all come pre-installed from the factory.

Someone mentioned this on a different Houdini thread a few minutes ago and I think it's worth mentioning as a suggestion here.

I would like to see the Houdini animations cleaned-up, have more consistency and perhaps up the quality of the creative work. I'm not saying it's bad - it fact I think it's a lot better than what Stern is doing. Some of it looks great. However, JJP's animations are the standard. And it is being compared to POTC. Houdini's animation are the weak link in an otherwise beautiful game. Please don't take that as an insult! I know it's really hard work.

They can be improved over time. But if you expect JJP quality display and animations, I think you'll be disappointed.

IMO the game is supposed to act a little "old timey" - if the animations were as slick as DI , it wouldn't feel right

I thought the JJP display and animations in WoZ were pretty awesome, and that was their first machine.

Why is it too much to ask API to do the same? Honest question. I'm actually amazed at how great of a job they did mechanically with Houdini, but I agree that the animations were a bit weak. Reminded me of Aerosmith's animations. Which isn't a good thing.

I take everything as an insult!!! Of course if that was true this would be a much uglier thread, like another small company thread I can think of.

Glad to hear you think are better than Sterns and I'd agree they are not where JJPs are, and as rubberducks points out, if you expect them to be, you are likely to be disappointed. Keep in mind, there price point on the machine is a little different, like $2500+, so, they have room for more money to be spent on it. JP does an awesome job on the graphics for JJP, he is very talented and as gotten quite good at figuring out how to do it and how to work with the programmers to bring it all to life. While I did not love what they did on Woz, it was the first game using a large LCD, so, they were the first to try to figure it out, and they have learned from it and they get better and better each time. Hopefully we will also get better with each title.

Oh, and while some of the animations I consider 'done' most need at least some clean-up and some are still pretty rough. There are also some little things I'd like to do to make them better, time will tell if I have the time to do so.

I actually spend more time on animation then I do on anything else, and to be honest, that is not really how it should be, but that is the nature of the beast with large, color displays. I pretty much provide the vision for the art/animations, so I'll take both the compliments and the complaints (but if it is a complaint and I can point at the artist or animator I will -- well, probably not). A lot of what we do is not 'clips', but individual elements we move around to create a little more variety. It is also uncompressed images, so the quality is excellent.

We are also working with the limitation of an artist and animator working on part time basis, as well as a new platform that has its strengths and weaknesses. Given how long it took JJP to get their first game out and that was with two programmers and we also have the challenge of no existing assets to work with, I'm pretty pleased with what we have done, given how fast we have done it. And I have not heard anyone say they suck or are overly repetitive or . . . , to that is good.

Having said all of this, once I can get a decent recording rig and put up some more game footage, I will certainly read comments on which animations you guys like and which you don't and over time I will do my try to tweak and improve them. However, at some point I will have to say 'that is as good as it will get'. I'm curious to see if you guys see it as I do. Obviously there is some stuff I am really happy with and other stuff that I think is just Ok and a few things I hate (but a lot less of that then a few months ago). Obviously art/animations are subjective and not everyone is going to love them.

I guess this validates my last point above, tastes are subjective. As I said, I thought Woz stuff was just ok and I think what we have, while different in many ways, is on pace to be as good or better (and they took four years to do it). I certainly think it is better than Aerosmith which from what I have seen is a lot of repetition and having the same basic animation running on different backgrounds. Obviously Stern is also figuring out how to work with the large display and how to balance development time with it. What is there is very nice, just from what I have seen, just not much of it, but I can't say I have played or watched it very much, so I can't say I am an expert on it. Imho, our main score screen is better than anything in Aerosmith. But obviously I'm biased.

What is under the glass is far more important than how pretty the animations on the screen are. Play any game with an LCD for an hour and tell me if it is the animations that capture you or how the game plays. Should it complement the game? Sure, but does not need to be over the top like JJP. Rather the time be invested in fun/deep/stable code that will keep me coming back for more.

I played JJPs and I played this at expo. I couldn't tell you much about any of the animations on either one, as I can't look at the screen when i'm playing, and I was watching the field when others were playing more than the display.

I made the comment in the other thread about animations (stiff, fonts/colors don't look professional). It just comes off as lower budget which I understand it truly is compare to the big boy but they do a good job not coming across this way on the PF yet when paired with the screen, it loses the effect. I also mentioned that some of the effects are just over the top (specifically the french call outs). I understand he was french but it's a little too much right now. Good news is that all of this is minor compared to how it plays and it does look good!

Rosh... I'll say it again; I/we really appreciate you listing and responding with an open mind.

I'm very impressed with your Houdini. I'm a Buyer for sure.

Thanks again!

I agree. The playfield action is more important. I will glance up now and then but watching the ball is needed more. I am getting this pin because it is similar to the pins in my collection. I like the JJP to play but will not buy one. I don't care for the huge new screens.

Hello ROSH, fresh new purchaser here (Put the deposit down at the beginning of the week) and I cannot tell you how excited I am. A little about me. I am a huge sci-fi fan and have been drooling over Alien since its inception. However, after reading through this entire thread, watching the videos of the game, and listening to your constant updates, attention to detail, and considerable time and effort you put into posting on this site, listening to your audience, and making changes that you feel will truly make this game something special. I decided to forgo a purchase of Aliens to buy your new machine. I wanted to make a post, which I rarely do, to offer my appreciate to your efforts and to tell you that, in my mind, there has been no other company or individual that has made me feel more secure in the quality of product I will be receiving and/or that my opinions, questions or concerns will be taken to heart and heard.

THANK YOU

Lastly, I had a few questions, if you don't mind. 1. I am concerned about playfield wear around bumpers, slings etc. Will there be playfield mylar placed in those spots? and could you speak a bit more on it. 2. You may have mentioned this earlier, but whenever you get an update about the upgrade costs for side art and shaker motor, will you please fill us in. I am on the side of wishing for the game to be shipped without needing to install anything and I hope that when my distributor says the orders are being place, I can have it ordered as I wish it to be when it arrives at my home. 3. I have owned a TFTC and the bumpers on data east were never very responsive. At times it would hit a few times and that's all, it would appear like the skirts were too thick and wouldn't really be as much action as you would hope. Have you found this to be an issue? Were the data east bumper skirts/disc w.e. used? or was it the Williams ones? Thanks for reading and I continue to await Houdini's release, and to see some awesome video that you send out to us!

P.S. I think if you guys put out a professional production video about the game, showing off all the features, etc etc, akin to JJP, it would really help your sales. Even as someone who has watched every video on youtube, I still feel like I haven't seen the playfield up close or had the game's features really explained and shown off.

-Dr. G

Your pop bumpers are out of adjustment. Most likely the spoons are misaligned and things need to be tightened up. Search for tech help as it's a simple fix with basic tools.
Or just lift the hood to visually inspect them, manipulate the skirts by hand to see how they function underneath and see if you can figure it out. Its kinda fun actually.

As I have not had the opportunity to play or see this game , can anybody explain the "feel" of this pin? Having owned Williams/Data East/Spooky/Capcom and Sega games would like an opinion on the build of the American Pinball Product?
Have one ordered and very much looking forward to receiving the final product...

Confused on this. The only time there is a 'french call out', is if you start the Paris hurry up, you get the Paris cop, speaking english but with a french accent. And you would then here one voice quote at the beginning and one if you succeed. Can you clarify? I did the jail escape hurry ups as Houdini visiting different cities, would get get the local police to throw him in jail, so he could escape and earn headlines to get folks to come see his shows. While I have tried to limit taking poetic license on the game, I did here, since there is London jail escape and he never did that that. The London cops were aware of his success in escaping jails, and did not want to be made foolish. I saw the jails escapes as a way to get a few different voices in the game. But unless you are a really good player, no way you here any specific cop more than once in a game, and at most three calls outs.

Having said that, I know the game is a little too chatty, some like that but a lot don't, and I'll be looking at some changes to that.

There is mylar by slings, pops, the scoop kick out and the drops to the inlanes.

We are still working on it, we are also trying to see if we can just include the blades. I'm not optimistic since we have already gone over the BOM that was set, but looking to see if we can find a way. I agree having it all come pre-installed is optimal, which is why I am pushing that we do that if all three items are purchased. Concern here, and for distributors, is that you don't want to have too many different iterations in boxed games. If we do 'no add-on', 'glass add-on' and 'all add-ons', that is still three, but better than 8, which i seriously doubt would be liked by production or distribution.

As Mr68 says, likely your spoons. True of pretty much any game. I believe we have a very experiended guy on the line who is responsible to check gapping on pops, slings and stuff.. In the ongoing battle between me and Joe on coil strength, I tend to like the pops a little hotter then he does to get more action and more play into the jail/magic shop. The flip side is if they are a little less sensitive the two shots through the pops can be a touch easier. Most coils on the game can be adjusted individually, but I will put some limits on it so you don't set them so high that you do damage.

I'm sure others will pipe in, but, personally I find it plays more like a Williams than a Stern in many ways. As a quick recap- Churchill cabinet, Mirco Playfields, real backglass, Williams style flippers, Stern style slings, DE style pops. Those provide the right mix of performance and production friendliness. All feature lamps are RGB, GI is white LED (wrong style was in machines at expo, my understanding is they will be a frosted style). Also traditional lockdown bar, playfield supports (no prop bar), rotation lock for head, let bolts are allen wrench style, using the same wrench as the head -- so when you get the game, the only tool you need to set it up comes in the box.

Okay, back to the code . . .

"We are still working on it, we are also trying to see if we can just include the blades. I'm not optimistic since we have already gone over the BOM that was set, but looking to see if we can find a way ".

You always can give them free (in a bag in the cabinet) for the first 100 buyers

Really wish that Rosh would pick up the pace to answering questions? The 5 minute reply time is killing me! Lol
Nice to see AP being so quick with the concerns and questions brought forward ... Looking like AP is going to be great to deal with from the consumers point of view!

It feels like ..... magic!

Any chance of a playfield being shipped to Cliffy? Would love to install the best protectors for my new game!

I have previously asked the appropriate members of our team to look into that, not sure if they have reached out to him yet or not. Suspect they have had higher priorities leading into expo, but, it is on our radar.

I agree. Getting him an advance playfield so you can have day one cliffy protectors (or ship preinstalled?) is a huge plus.

We spoke at Allentown, does this mean that the game will not include protectors? I was hoping for Cliffy protectors since he makes the best. As I said before, not having to take apart a new game would be much appreciated.

I would pay for the glass, shaker motor, blades, and Cliffy protectors (even a premium on the Cliffy protectors to ensure that Cliff gets to make them). I would love to get this in the box all ready to go. While we are at it, how about a plastic protector set and ramp entry protectors?

Does anybody include Cliffys right out of the box?

Yes. The Big Lebowski did.

Oooook but not any pin that actually got produced in real numbers, then. TBL is awesome but at this point it's a museum piece

No. But wouldn't it be great if Cliff could reach a deal with a manufacturer to have his superior quality and ingenuity designed into the game, not as a copy of a "Cliffy like" protector but as a "Cliffy protector" that gives him credit for his work and allows us to have the option of having them added during assembly?

No

Amen. And I think the pinball community would support whoever did it.

I didn't know.... and I'm now sad and angry about it.

Hey Cliff! My LOTR brass-plated Cliffy's still look great... makes the game

Game will have mylar in the pops, slings, inlane drop areas and the scoop kick out.

The ramps already have a protectors.

IMG_2772 (resized).JPG

The sling shot plastics will have plastic 'washers' on them as well.

IMG_2773 (resized).JPG

<history lesson? Back in the 60s and 70s you could have a car 'built to order', where you could choose all of the different options you wanted. This was one of the things that led to the quality issues in US cars and helped the Japanese, who were using a one or two upgrade package approach (driven form them being imports). </history lesson> The point being if each machine going down the line is different, it leads to mistakes, which is why doing something like pre-purchased cliffys installed at the factory an undesirable thing. As I have mentioned we are already over budget, so, including these was not an option.

I suspect the scoop is the only place really needing one, but I'm not the expert. It is possible that one protecting the ramp over the magic shop and some might want something for the magic shop hole. I don't think it is needed, but again, I typically don't worry about this.

Below is a some 'parts porn', for those that like that, I grabbed this photo this morning while someone was counting out sets to go on the line.

IMG_2771 (resized).JPG

Just wondering with a question on the rules.

Is there any dynamic scoring, by that I mean using multipliers to blow up jackpots and super jackpots?

Is mylar neccessary by the slings with a clearcoated playfield? I know it protects but i hate the look of them.

Will they be easily removable?

^ Protect your 6k investment. They are clear and shouldn't look like anything. just my 2 cents.

Three things to note in this regard . . .
1) Starting a stage mode via Stage Alley doubles the value of the mode. Certainly harder to start it via the alley then a straight shot off the left flipper.

2) Milkcan Multiplier -- this is a playfield multiplier that goes 2x,3x,4x. It requires a two shot combo (lower left loop, followed by the ramp) to advance it and gives 20 seconds of multiplication. If your shoot the ramp quickly enough as second time, you can increase it two levels at once. I've considered doing all thew ay to 7X, but right now I feel that is too much, but, you never know.

3) Inverted Straitjacket multiball -- when you start straitjacket mulitball at the stage, you can choose reverse or reverse and inverted, reverse and inverted has double jackpots.

For operators they are certainly desirable and probably needed more at the pops then the slings, and I would agree less needed for home use. I do not know how easy they are to take off, I'll see if I can get more info on it. As Vividpsychosis points out, they are not very noticeable, as you can see in this photo. the curvy 'line' on the right side is the reflection from the underside of the sling shot the plastic.

IMG_2774 (resized).JPG

Nice.

So, a 4x super jackpot is possible right now.

Not played the game but a 7x super jackpot sounds enticing and gives the player even more excitement and added longevity as doesn't sound like it would happen too often.

It is these kind of hooks that really keep players coming back to games. If the jackpot and super jackpot value is dependent on what a player has done prior to triggering them, might even be room for a Super Jackpot Champion award at end of game?

Please let us know as soon as you find out how much Houdini Glass is going to cost. (It's magic)!

Those multipliers apply to everything, so a mode that might be worth 100K in total, if completed successfully, could become 400K, start it via 2X stage alley shot and you are talking 800K.

Having said all of this, the combo to increase the multiplier is not easy, which is why I may increase the length of time it is active or may go back to my original plan of making the 'add time' shots also work for the milkcan multiplier, when it gets low (plan was to first have to hit magic stand-ups, but I think that makes it a little too complex). Currently 'add time' works for any stage or movie mode, once you get under 10 seconds, the spinner can then be hit one or more times for a maximum increase in time of 10 seconds. Inserts light when it is active, but since you also get the 10 second countdown it is pretty obvious when the shot is active.

I'll be continuing to adjust the super jackpots values. Earning the super jackpot in seance requires tremendous skill and needs to be worth a lot more than a super jackpot in Trunk Multiball or Straitjacket multiball, which are far more attainable. I have yet to get the super jackpot in seance, it pretty much requires cradling one or two balls and playing with just one ball and even then hitting the six super-mini standups in order is pretty damn hard.

Will be cheaper than competing products, and I will let you know once the price is finalized.

Even my WMS games NIB did not have the halfmoon mylars preinstalled by the slings. They were simply in the goodie bag so an op could put them on if they like. For home use they are completely unneeded and frankly look bad...especially when the edges start getting a little wax or dust on them and then they really show.

I haven't seen a privately owned machine with those PF mylars in over 25 years... from any company... why not simply include them in the bag and not stick them down?

Otherwise the first thing people will have to do is to heat or freeze them off... or simply peel them off and who wants to risk doing that on a newly cured PF?

Well that's one mans opinion anyways.