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(Topic ID: 183206)

American Pinball Houdini thread


By lllvjr

3 years ago



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#1051 3 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Let's be honest, all the pinball company logos are kind of crappy. So if anything they're just matching the competition on that one.

Stern has the most refined and "print ready" logo, but they've had forever to get to this point. Aside from Dutch Pinball, all the others (JJP, Spooky, AP, and maybe Heighway) need to simplify into a format that works better. Heighway is well over halfway there. The other three need a lot of refinement.

But I don't play a logo, so I don't care that much.

#1052 3 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Let's be honest, all the pinball company logos are kind of crappy. So if anything they're just matching the competition on that one.

I think the Stern, DP and JJP ones get the job done, the animated JJP one more so than the static one.

The machine looks great, but the AP logo looks like a place holder left behind from their formation over a year ago.

#1053 3 years ago

They should pull a Williams and just put a chrome text-less logo up on the speaker.

#1054 3 years ago

on that houdini pin, make that ugly logo disappear!

#1055 3 years ago

maybe they should use the logo, but change the color scheme to the copper, black, silver colors used on the game. would blend in a bit and go with the theme and look of the game.

#1056 3 years ago

Rosh, one serious question.

Are there, some security measures programmed in for when the servos on the stage 'block' so they wont get power the whole time and eventually blow up? (Would'nt ask if that wouldn't have happend elsewhere. )

#1057 3 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Wow, you didn't think LOTR measured up! You do have a great lineup, but what was it you didn't like? And same for STTNG? you've owned the top pins of all time! (Ok not Star Wars

LOTR was and is an enjoyable game and sometimes I miss it. What I didn't like was playing it made no sense to me in some regard as to achieve the end result of destroying the ring. Sometimes I would get to the end and not really know how I got there and other times I wondered why I didn't get there if that makes any sense. STTNG seemed repetitive to me too having to shoot down the middle for many missions. I liked the video modes, but overall the game did not hold my interest after I got it and played it for a while. I purchased these games without having played them anywhere because they were popular and still are. When you make a mistake with a popular game, you normally do not get hurt too much or at all when you sell them. It has been years since I have parted with them and prices were still in the $3500 range. I like the themes of the games I still have and their difficulty varies, but they are all very entertaining to me and they are just great to look at when they are not being played. All my games have black powder coated side rails, lock down bars, black doors, legs (except TOTAN gold legs) and shooter plates. As with all games, it boils down to personal preference. I like that Houdini has matching legs, side rails and lockdown bars from the factory. All machines have moved away from plain stainless and that is good. My machines too!

#1058 3 years ago

destroying the ring is not the ending. It's kind of a half way point, so those of us that are not A players, could feel like we accomplished something. but you are still a far ways away from the real ending of the game.

13
#1059 3 years ago

Great tour of AMERICAN PINBALL today. Everyone at Nitro is super pumped about HOUDINI. We’re authorized distributor’s for Canada & Washington State. Contact us for best pricing & support. We’ve placed a very large order in advance so you can expect to be one of the first to receive your pin.

tommy@nitropinball.com
Toll Free: 1-855-DO-NITRO
www.NITROPINBALL.com

6F020AD0-3201-4F37-9A9A-BC2DF9777778 (resized).jpeg

#1060 3 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

destroying the ring is not the ending. It's kind of a half way point, so those of us that are not A players, could feel like we accomplished something. but you are still a far ways away from the real ending of the game.

I guess that is why I was able to part with it, I didn't understand the game although I liked the movies and I like the theme. It is the only Stern game that has appealed to me and I could have kept it, but I knew other games will come along that I would like better. I hope Houdini will be a keeper too. I have to really want a game I see and this machine fits the bill. The more I learn about Houdini and the company, the more I feel this is a game I want to own and play.

#1061 3 years ago

I feel like this game is starting to get some good buzz and I'm happy to see. It def looks good - just wish there was more clear videos to showcase it's potential. Excited to see more of it.

#1062 3 years ago

My wife and I were at Expo Thursday night and had a great time. We had a chance to play Houdini and now my wife says she wants one. I'll have to get one to keep her happy.

#1063 3 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

I don't know if it has been discussed or not, but I'd strongly suggest revisiting the AP logo.

americanlogo.jpg

inclined to agree.
not feeling the current font choice AT ALL.
perhaps something bolder/stronger.
something from past/traditional america.

and unfortunately,
the logo all of a sudden looks like Jack Sparrow's compass.

#1064 3 years ago
Quoted from pbwizard14:

I guess that is why I was able to part with it, I didn't understand the game although I liked the movies and I like the theme. It is the only Stern game that has appealed to me and I could have kept it, but I knew other games will come along that I would like better. I hope Houdini will be a keeper too. I have to really want a game I see and this machine fits the bill. The more I learn about Houdini and the company, the more I feel this is a game I want to own and play.

sometimes it helps to play games like this with people that understand it and can explain it. I've had that happen before. Like baby pacman. Used to hate it, until someone went through while I was playing and explained all the aspects of it. Then I was hooked.

#1065 3 years ago

Curious what other folks thought of the ball speed and flipper strength. I have one on order, but I was a bit disappointed at the show in how slow the ball seemed. This was Thursday night, so maybe things weren't set up quite optimal yet (I know the leg levelers were screwed all of the way in). I thought maybe if the angle were increased, the ball would be faster and give a better bounce on the flip? And maybe I was just off my game that night...anyone else that played it have any thoughts on the feel?

#1066 3 years ago

Game looks incredible! Played at Allentown and it looks like it gets better and better. I don't remember, when the pop thingys with the chains are hit, is there a chain shaking sound in there?

#1067 3 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Curious what other folks thought of the ball speed and flipper strength. I have one on order, but I was a bit disappointed at the show in how slow the ball seemed. This was Thursday night, so maybe things weren't set up quite optimal yet (I know the leg levelers were screwed all of the way in). I thought maybe if the angle were increased, the ball would be faster and give a better bounce on the flip? And maybe I was just off my game that night...anyone else that played it have any thoughts on the feel?

The machine I played definitely had weak flippers. Making it up that steep ramp on the right was impossible.

Not sure if anyone brought this up yet, but during a mode in which Houdini reaches into his magic hat to pull out a reward, he pulled out the logo for Total Nuclear Annihilation (TNA). He then says, "Whoops! This is Houdini!" and put the logo back in the hat to pull something else out. Thought that was a neat little thing they added.

#1068 3 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Curious what other folks thought of the ball speed and flipper strength.

Isn't this a common complaint for all show games? It seems like every reveal generates similar comments.

Not sure if it's the leveling, power supplies at shows, hot coils due to 12+ hours of continuous play, or just people unfamiliar with the shots, but I have heard this before.

Nobody ever complains once they start shipping.

#1069 3 years ago

Some other takeaways:

That catapult is bad ass. But I'm wondering how sturdy that chest is. The game I played had a catapult that was a tad bit underpowered, meaning the ball was clipping the chest ever so slightly. Over time I'm thinking that is going to start leaving a mark...or worse.

The modes where they mess with you flippers is crazy. Reverse flippers is one thing, but reversing the switch completely (button pressed = flippers down, button unpressed = flippers up) was maddening!

Hats off on what looks like a solid first game from American Pinball!

#1070 3 years ago
Quoted from dirtbag66:

Some other takeaways:
That catapult is bad ass. But I'm wondering how sturdy that chest is. The game I played had a catapult that was a tad bit underpowered, meaning the ball was clipping the chest ever so slightly. Over time I'm thinking that is going to start leaving a mark...or worse.
The modes where they mess with you flippers is crazy. Reverse flippers is one thing, but reversing the switch completely (button pressed = flippers down, button unpressed = flippers up) was maddening!
Hats off on what looks like a solid first game from American Pinball!

I think rosh mentioned this earlier, that one of the show games had been dropped and repaired onsite, so it wasn't quite set up perfectly - that may have been the game you were on. He says they have a 90% (!) success rate of swish shots , which is remarkable. That said, it's a good point - it would be a shame to have to replace that chest If it gets damaged, but hey it's only pinball!

#1071 3 years ago

with levelers all the way in, the game will sit at 6 or 6.5 can't remember which insures on location it will be at least at that, which is not a bad level, but personally I like it a touch higher. Obviously if all the way in is 6, you can get this pretty damn steep. The bigger issue, especially on Thursday and part of Friday, was the flipper strength was turned down too low. Joe likes them softer than I do. He complains anytime he comes into my office that the flippers are too hot (which might a touch true) and he did the set, and this was when the hall was pretty quiet, as more machines powered on, etc. the power dropped and they were way too low. When the JJP presentation ended and you had a ton of folks come back into the hall (and more machines turned on), there was a drop. I increased strength on the different machines throughout the weekend, pretty much any time I played a game on it. You can change the strength of most coils via the settings, and I'm sure a few of you saw me doing it. I think they were at 18 at the start of the show and on Saturday I had them up around 25. I also had increased the pops and sling strength. I think it is important for the left sling to have sufficient power so you can the occasional hit up into the scoop, that is important with novices playing since it helps them start Seance. You also want enough pop action to get the ball into the jail/magic shop and the play off the upper stand-ups. Pops in this game are not just a place to banging around and do nothing, they are needed to advance through the game.

One thing to note, when you guys get these at home, is that the strength of the flippers and the pitch can impact rules, meaning stronger flippers are going to spin the spinner faster so for Magic Shop and Haldane of the Secret Service in particular, the settings may need to to be adjusted to not make it too easy/hard to complete haldane and in the case of the magic shop too frequent/infrequent.

#1072 3 years ago
Quoted from dirtbag66:

But I'm wondering how sturdy that chest is.

the box itself is a heavy steel, so that is plenty sturdy. I'm not sure what the decorative coverring is made of I have seen no damage on games where that have seen thousands of play.

The machine on the left side is the one that was dropped hard, I was told it rolled right off the hand truck as it was being set down with the head crashing down. At some point the Trunk Lid open switch was not registering, so the catapult was throwing short on purpose. Once the switch was fixed it was fine.

The catapult power was adjusted at one point when it was hitting the front or the front lip a little too often on its way into the box. My goal is 90% and we have been above that.

14
#1073 3 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

rosh
I don't know if it has been discussed or not, but I'd strongly suggest revisiting the AP logo.

Rough sketch but something more like this could work.

american (resized).jpg

#1074 3 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Rough sketch but something more like this could work.

That's really good

-3
#1075 3 years ago
Quoted from dirtbag66:

The modes where they mess with you flippers is crazy. Reverse flippers is one thing, but reversing the switch completely (button pressed = flippers down, button unpressed = flippers up) was maddening!

re: reverse/reverse-inverted flippers
as a modestly accomplished player, learning to improve my skill set in these two disciplines isn't something id relish. more than anything, i feel they should be categorized as 'gimmicks'. i dont even think they are 'cute'. accomplished players arent going to interested in rewiring their brain. would love to hear how top players felt about the subject. i cant believe the casual/rec player is going to like them much either. while entertaining/comical the first time, long term they will be stupefied.

#1076 3 years ago

During the show someone said that one of the images on the left side blade, the guy with the goldfish in his mouth, is Mac King a well known magician. I did some checking with our artist on that, and he confirmed it is, and that Mac is a friend of his and has approved the use of his image. Mac is already in line to buy a game, and is sure a few of his Vegas magician friends are going to be ordering one as well.

Can't remember who brought it up, but if they are a pinsider, now they know.

#1077 3 years ago
Quoted from dirtbag66:

The machine I played definitely had weak flippers. Making it up that steep ramp on the right was impossible.
Not sure if anyone brought this up yet, but during a mode in which Houdini reaches into his magic hat to pull out a reward, he pulled out the logo for Total Nuclear Annihilation (TNA). He then says, "Whoops! This is Houdini!" and put the logo back in the hat to pull something else out. Thought that was a neat little thing they added.

You only wish you were playing TNA...

Kidding, kidding. This game looks like a great successor to ToM. Looking forward to playing one someday.

#1078 3 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

with levelers all the way in, the game will sit at 6 or 6.5 can't remember which insures on location it will be at least at that, which is not a bad level, but personally I like it a touch higher. Obviously if all the way in is 6, you can get this pretty damn steep. The bigger issue, especially on Thursday and part of Friday, was the flipper strength was turned down too low. Joe likes them softer than I do. He complains anytime he comes into my office that the flippers are too hot (which might a touch true) and he did the set, and this was when the hall was pretty quiet, as more machines powered on, etc. the power dropped and they were way too low. When the JJP presentation ended and you had a ton of folks come back into the hall (and more machines turned on), there was a drop. I increased strength on the different machines throughout the weekend, pretty much any time I played a game on it. You can change the strength to most flippers via the settings, and I'm sure a few of you saw me doing it. I think they were at 18 at the start of the show and on Saturday I had them up around 25. I also had increased the pops and sling strength. I think it is important for the left sling to have sufficient power so you can the occasional hit up into the scoop, that is important with novices playing since it helps them start Seance. You also want enough pop action to get the ball into the jail/magic shop and the play off the upper stand-ups. Pops in this game are not just a place to banging around and do nothing, they are needed to advance through the game.

The Expo power issues and the games' initial set up were unfortunate as apparently some folks came away with a bad impression of Houdini. I was really disappointed to hear Tommy Skinner's perspective on its playability at Expo in the latest episode of This Flippin' Podcast (go to 1:43:25 for start of Houdini discussion):

http://www.podcastgarden.com/episode/argh_115797

#1079 3 years ago
Quoted from dirtbag66:

Not sure if anyone brought this up yet, but during a mode in which Houdini reaches into his magic hat to pull out a reward, he pulled out the logo for Total Nuclear Annihilation (TNA). He then says, "Whoops! This is Houdini!" and put the logo back in the hat to pull something else out. Thought that was a neat little thing they added.

Scott is a friend and he gave me the logo to use and I think a voice call or two, but we used out own voice calls to fit the flow (I've given him the voice calls we did for him to use as ring tones). There are a couple of different version of the voice call that goes with it.

We poke a little fun at each of the other companies and their current games. I'm sure others here saw some of the other items getting pulled out, including of course, a cow. I guess I'll now need to add a pirate joke.

#1080 3 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

the box itself is a heavy steel, so that is plenty sturdy. I'm not sure what the decorative coverring is

Would look really nice if it was lined inside with a nice red or purple material ..like velvet or something similar..

#1081 3 years ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

re: reverse/reverse-inverted flippers
as a modestly accomplished player, learning to improve my skill set in these two disciplines isn't something id relish. more than anything, i feel they should be categorized as 'gimmicks'. i dont even think they are 'cute'. accomplished players arent going to interested in rewiring their brain. would love to hear how top players felt about the subject. i cant believe the casual/rec player is going to like them much either. while entertaining/comical the first time, long term they will be stupefied.

Seems to me that long term they will learn how to do it better?

#1082 3 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Seems to me that long term they will learn how to do it better?

Agreed and since 99% of us are Not tournament accomplished players I rather enjoyed the new and creative challenge. Gimmick yes but it makes a fun game even more challenging. It keeps pinball fresh and new to create new ideas. May not fit the rules of competition but I as do most don't play for a trophy or accolade. Please don't start removing creative ideas and don't be swayed to take them away.

#1083 3 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

Obviously I am biased, but I do think it is the best integration of an LCD into a back box so far.

I would agree with this. In fact, it's the first thing I noticed as soon as I stepped up to the machine. I immediately thought about how much better it looked than Stern or JJP's LCD integration. The whole game just looks stunning. You guys should be very proud!

10
#1084 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Please don't start removing creative ideas and don't be swayed to take them away.

I can assure, no way in hell would I remove it. Most folks absolutely love it. The thing I don't get is those not willing to try inverted. Why not give it a try? There is a ball save at the end, not much to lose.

The thing with reversed, as long as you cross your arms, you brain just handles it for you, you pretty much play normally (well a slap save is probably harder). Inverted is a totally different thing, and does not take that long to hang of it, and it is is worth double.

As fair warning, I do plan to add a 'no chimping' feature for straitjacket multiball. So if the game detects that you are just hitting both flippers simultaneously all the time, it will warn you and if you continue it will reduce the jackpot value.

Quoted from Cobra:

Would look really nice if it was lined inside with a nice red or purple material ..like velvet or something similar..

Purple would be the right choice, besides the fact our artist loves purple, in case you couldn't tell, when we show the trunk on screen it is purple. I don't see us adding that, but I'll mention it, and I have little doubt any kind of a fabric would get a wear spot where the ball hits. We do use a material on the front of the stage that is quite durable and can take a pounding, so that kind of a thing could work. If we don't do it, I'm sure someone else will.

#1085 3 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

I can assure, no way in hell would I remove it. Most folks absolutely love it. The thing I don't get is those not willing to try inverted. Why not give it a try? There is a ball save at the end, not much to lose.
The thing with reversed, as long as you cross your arms, you brain just handles it for you, you pretty much play normally (well a slap save is probably harder). Inverted is a totally different thing, and does not take that long to hang of it, and it is is worth double.
As fair warning, I do plan to add a 'no chimping' feature for straitjacket multiball. So if the game detects that you are just hitting both flippers simultaneously all the time, it will warn you and if you continue it will reduce the jackpot value.

Purple would be the right choice, besides the fact our artist loves purple, in case you couldn't tell, when we show the trunk on screen it is purple. I don't see us adding that, but I'll mention it, and I have little doubt any kind of a fabric would get a wear spot where the ball hits. We do use a material on the front of the stage that is quite durable and can take a pounding, so that kind of a thing could work. If we don't do it, I'm sure someone else will.

No Chimping

images (resized).jpg

#1086 3 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I think rosh mentioned this earlier, that one of the show games had been dropped and repaired onsite, so it wasn't quite set up perfectly - that may have been the game you were on. He says they have a 90% (!) success rate of swish shots , which is remarkable. That said, it's a good point - it would be a shame to have to replace that chest If it gets damaged, but hey it's only pinball!

I think it's great.

#1087 3 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

During the show someone said that one of the images on the left side blade, the guy with the goldfish in his mouth, is Mac King a well known magician. I did some checking with our artist on that, and he confirmed it is, and that Mac is a friend of his and has approved the use of his image. Mac is already in line to buy a game, and is sure a few of his Vegas magician friends are going to be ordering one as well.
Can't remember who brought it up, but if they are a pinsider, now they know.

Yes that was me that mentioned Mac King. I figured you guys should know just in case. But it is great to see him in the game. He is a great guy.
Magicchiz

#1088 3 years ago

Great idea reducing jackpot for mashing both flippers. That is what I do on GB. Just press both whenever I want either to flip.

It is great to see the extra thought you guys are putting into this game. This is the first pin that I am actually really excited about buying.

All the positive comments are really well deserved.

#1089 3 years ago
Quoted from Magicchiz:

Yes that was me that mentioned Mac King. I figured you guys should know just in case. But it is great to see him in the game. He is a great guy.

Mac King is awesome! I was super into magic in my youth, and I saw him perform live a couple times back in the 90's. Such a funny and talented guy. He's definitely one of my all time favorite magicians.

#1090 3 years ago

VERY rough idea from flash's great design. I like things a bit more symmetrical. The A part would have the ball resting in the three curves.

ap l (resized).jpg

#1091 3 years ago
Quoted from MRG:

No Chimping

We have animation very similar to that we will be using. I do have to give a shout to my old Chicago Pinball Mafia buddy Greg Golminas (not sure if he is on pinside and what is handle is), who first suggested a chimping warning, with the monkey with cymbals. Figured if we were going through the trouble to track for it, might as well take it one step further and punish the player for doing it.

Quoted from gweempose:

He's definitely one of my all time favorite magicians.

So yet another reason to buy Houdini

#1092 3 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

VERY rough idea from flash's great design. I like things a bit more symmetrical. The A part would have the ball resting in the three curves.

Are we Really asking them to change their shirts, flyers, cards, art, stickers, Huge company sign marque on the building because we don't like their business logo? lol Asking/recommending software features/adds seems appropriate but come on.... I don't like the Windows logo but Bill Gates doesn't seem to care as I am buying a Product not his company. Sorry just seemed a bit rude to the company founders in my opinion. I wouldn't care if their logo was a brown turd as long as they made Awesome games like they are. Just an opinion....

#1093 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Are we Really asking them to change their shirts, flyers, cards, art, stickers, Huge company sign marque on the building because we don't like their business logo? lol Asking/recommending software features/adds seems appropriate but come on.... I don't like the Windows logo but Bill Gates doesn't seem to care as I am buying a Product not his company. Sorry just seemed a bit rude to the company founders in my opinion. I wouldn't care if their logo was a brown turd as long as they made Awesome games like they are. Just an opinion....

I quite like the logo - it reminds me of stencil art on EM games. Logos should be easy to recognize and to draw

#1094 3 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Rough sketch but something more like this could work.

Too complicated. The rule is, make it black and white and size it to fit on a business card. If it still looks good then you're on the right track.

#1095 3 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

with levelers all the way in, the game will sit at 6 or 6.5 can't remember which insures on location it will be at least at that, which is not a bad level, but personally I like it a touch higher. Obviously if all the way in is 6, you can get this pretty damn steep. The bigger issue, especially on Thursday and part of Friday, was the flipper strength was turned down too low. Joe likes them softer than I do. He complains anytime he comes into my office that the flippers are too hot (which might a touch true) and he did the set, and this was when the hall was pretty quiet, as more machines powered on, etc. the power dropped and they were way too low. When the JJP presentation ended and you had a ton of folks come back into the hall (and more machines turned on), there was a drop. I increased strength on the different machines throughout the weekend, pretty much any time I played a game on it. You can change the strength of most coils via the settings, and I'm sure a few of you saw me doing it. I think they were at 18 at the start of the show and on Saturday I had them up around 25. I also had increased the pops and sling strength. I think it is important for the left sling to have sufficient power so you can the occasional hit up into the scoop, that is important with novices playing since it helps them start Seance. You also want enough pop action to get the ball into the jail/magic shop and the play off the upper stand-ups. Pops in this game are not just a place to banging around and do nothing, they are needed to advance through the game.
One thing to note, when you guys get these at home, is that the strength of the flippers and the pitch can impact rules, meaning stronger flippers are going to spin the spinner faster so for Magic Shop and Haldane of the Secret Service in particular, the settings may need to to be adjusted to not make it too easy/hard to complete haldane and in the case of the magic shop too frequent/infrequent.

Rosh, thanks for addressing this, it at least validates what I experienced, and gives me a solution. It also shows you are willing to look at criticism and address any issues rather than ignoring them. I can deal with a lot in pinball, but the one thing I dislike the most is a mushy flipper, and I appreciate your interaction here. Very refreshing. My order is still intact........lol

#1096 3 years ago
Quoted from rosh:

We have animation very similar to that we will be using. I do have to give a shout to my old Chicago Pinball Mafia buddy Greg Golminas (not sure if he is on pinside and what is handle is), who first suggested a chimping warning, with the monkey with cymbals. Figured if we were going through the trouble to track for it, might as well take it one step further and punish the player for doing it.

So yet another reason to buy Houdini

Thanks Josh for the shout out. MRG is me.

#1097 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Are we Really asking them to change their shirts, flyers, cards, art, stickers, Huge company sign marque on the building because we don't like their business logo? lol Asking/recommending software features/adds seems appropriate but come on.... I don't like the Windows logo but Bill Gates doesn't seem to care as I am buying a Product not his company. Sorry just seemed a bit rude to the company founders in my opinion. I wouldn't care if their logo was a brown turd as long as they made Awesome games like they are. Just an opinion....

Im just having a bit of fun. And i agree that houdini looks awesome.

#1098 3 years ago

Houdini looks fantastic! In for this and pirates....finally earning my money!

#1099 3 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Are we Really asking them to change their shirts, flyers, cards, art, stickers, Huge company sign marque on the building because we don't like their business logo? lol Asking/recommending software features/adds seems appropriate but come on.... I don't like the Windows logo but Bill Gates doesn't seem to care as I am buying a Product not his company. Sorry just seemed a bit rude to the company founders in my opinion. I wouldn't care if their logo was a brown turd as long as they made Awesome games like they are. Just an opinion....

MS has changed the windows logo a little to a lot every few years since forever.

#1100 3 years ago

I’m warming up to Houdini as well. AP really rallied after last year, good job guys! Also, lower scoring is in fad. Not only JJP but also DP. My TBL is also low scoring, which seems to be the new trend amongst the new folks.

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