Quoted from LTG:Three Stooges
Not happening, at least not with me doing the rules and code. Not spending a year of my life with Larry, Moe and Curly.
(Topic ID: 217233)
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Quoted from Aurich:that sounds absolutely dreadful. Like all the downsides of a shitty license without any of the upsides of having a license.
Not saying it is or isn't Oktoberfest, or any other theme mentioned, well except the Stooges, which I did say it is not.
I am surprised to hear you say that. I'm sure there were plenty who thought a machine based on fishing or whitewater rafting or a diner or amusement parks or the weather or golf or . . . . would be dreadful. It really comes down to what you do with it, which also applies to a 'great' theme. Look at Star Wars and Alien, both would be generally viewed as great themes, but one did a great job of bringing the theme to life through game play and theme implementation into the machine and the other, not so much.
Curious as to what you see at the 'downsides of a shitty license'. I typically see the downsides to a license being limitations on what you can do with assets, the characters, the story, the dialog, as well as the need to get approvals for everything and the impact that can have on your timeline that either can delay it or it forces you to take the path of least resistance where you know you will get things approved -- e.g. take no risks keep it simple and safe.
Quoted from Aurich:In my mind there's a pretty simple upside/downside to the question of license or original. I'm simplifying, but the for the sake of answering your question clearly.
Upside to license: People are familiar with it, you get fans excited before they even play it, you (hopefully) get a bunch of assets you can leverage, like movie clips or music or callouts, iconic art, all the goodies. It's an easier sale. It's the safe approach.
Downside to license: You're creatively hampered by the constraints of the theme, be it by a studio, or just the nature of the license itself. There's little mystery, people walk up with expectations already, and if you don't meet them they're disappointed, and if you do they might be happy, but you have to do a certain amount of paint by numbers to achieve that. It's boring.
Upside to original: You're free to go wild, and explore new paths. You can tell your own story, be imaginative, surprise people. There's nothing holding you back, no expectations, the sky is the limit. This is why making games is exciting, IMHO. Engineers might dig making the mechs, coders might love creative rules, but just as a big picture, I think making a game is about the whole story of it. And if it's a fancy lunchbox with a logo at the end of the day it's not as interesting to do. Pinball is so much work, I think you should fight for the work to be original.
Downside to original: You don't get the built in fan base. You don't get the freebie assets, you're on your own to create it all. Just because it's original doesn't mean it's interesting. You could build a Full Throttle, and discover no one gives a shit about motorcycle racing. The pressure and opportunity are intertwined to come up with something good. It's more work, and the payoff isn't as certain, it's riskier, even if the reward might be more fulfilling.
Oktoberfest has all the downsides of a corny license. People already have a picture in their head just hearing the name, it's well mined territory. I'm already thinking of stupid movies with drunk idiots and PG13 boobs. I'm turned off just hearing the name. Whatever the (pretend supposed) game is, or looks like, that's baggage. There's no mystery or excitement. Yay, beer. This is just a rumor, I'm hopefully not coming off as attacking anyone, it's not real as far as I know. I'm just saying that I hear the name and I'm instantly turned off. Not a great start for making a game.
But it has none of the upsides. There's no existing art or callouts or anything particularly helpful beyond a name that might interest some, or turn off some. I don't care what the wizard mode is already, because I assume it has to do with chugging beer or something dumb, and not discovering a dragon or something. Doesn't matter if I'm totally wrong, that's the initial impression. I honestly can't think of anything beneficial it brings to the table. If you want to mine German heritage there's a rich history to go after. If you want a party game, with humor and fun, but you gotta write all the jokes and do all the art yourself, why tie yourself to something so unimaginative and overdone?
You brought up Whitewater and Fishtales. First off, I hate Fishtales, the music and art and theme are awful, I'll never own it. (Don't hate me Fishtales fans! But I will point to how the price of it has never risen like other games, it's simply not a demand title.) Whitewater is a great game, had one, but it was a really well designed and fun game despite the theme, not because of it. At best it was innocuous, and you got Big Foot, and an excuse for some cool whirpool action, and a steep rapids ramp.
A good game trumps all. A so so theme can be okay with a great game, but no one is clambering for another rafting game. Why not make a great game, but also an amazing theme, so it doesn't succeed despite it, but becomes one hell of a package?
Anyways, you asked, there you go. I hope it's not a real rumor, and if it's a real game and I sounded like an asshole I do apologize, just playing the speculation game, not trying to shit on anyone's work.Nah, it carries the baggage still. People still deride it as the cell phone game with the dumb mom jeans hero. Heard it this weekend at Golden Sate. It's a Pat Lawlor game and it's fun to shoot, so you get over it, but the name and theme approach is still a mistake in my book. If nothing else it marred what could have been a great launch. I was there, people hated it. Why start on the wrong foot like that?
Uh, what? People have been BEGGING for an Iron Maiden game in huge numbers for years. That's ridiculous. Of course some people hate the band, every license has fans and haters, but "everybody talking trash" is utter nonsense.
I agree with almost all of what you said as far as the pros and cons of licensed vs unlicensed themes. With Houdini, we had no assets, I had to create the 'story', map out the flow of the rules, what we would do with the display, write all the voice calls, our artist, animator and sound engineer had to start from scratch in creating assets to fit what I was trying to do (and putting up with my idiosyncrasies), and they all did a great job. And while we did not have to answer to a licensor, the reality is that is was very important to me to be true to the man. I decided on day one it was not going to be a magic themed pin with Houdini's name on it, it was going to be a celebration of the man's remarkable life. I was not going to include tricks he never did (as others would have), so while I did not have to get approvals from the license holder, I had to get approvals from myself.
There is no doubt that an unlicensed theme, is still a theme, and people will immediately react to it based on their own experiences and knowledge. DialedIn -- about a phone -- when it is far more than that, but it certainly took time for folks to look past that. Oktoberfest, pretty much most folks first reaction is it is about beer, when it is far more than that. BTW, if anyone thinks Oktoberfest is what is portrayed in the sophomoric film Beerfest (which sounds like what you were describing), well, you don't know anything about Oktoberfest, but movies like that certainly frame someone's viewpoint. The town I live in has a fall festival that is called "old home days", but is basically an Oktoberfest like festival, like so many towns and cities have. It most certainly has a beer tent (but since I am a tequila drinker, so I don't even visit the beer tent), but it also has a food tent, a music stage, and a carnival with rides and a midway as well as a big fireworks show. It attracts people of all ages and from neighboring towns, and it is something my family looks forward to every year I suspect most Oktoberfest and fall festivals feature similar things.
Whether we are next doing Oktoberfest or casino or the Kugler Family or Barnum and Bailey or Prince or Clash of the Titans or Saw or any of the other mentioned or rumored themes, at the end of the day what will matter most if it is a fun game that challenges and entertains -- and that is the true challenge and that is what will determine the success of it.
By the way, everyone should keep on guessing and throwing out unlicensed theme ideas, maybe you will get it right or maybe you will give us the idea for one of our future games.
Quoted from Aurich:This is a good point, but I would counter that the price includes a lot of assets that you otherwise have to create from scratch yourself, and that's a cost to factor also. In the end a license might not actually be that much more expensive, but it really depends on what you do, who you have to pay to make things etc.
The assets are a huge part of the value of a licensed theme -- but, depends on the freedom you have in using them. Creating all assets from scratch is a ton of work, but as we have talked about, we can do what we want. I joked with Dwight Sullivan one time that he gets to go home, have a few beers and watch Ghostbusters and see what great lines Harold Ramis had written for him. I on the other hand would go home, drink Tequila and come up with the lines myself. Of course it was the power of tequila the brought reversed and inverted flippers to straitjacket multiball.
The big advantage of a theme is that you have, potentially, a lot of interest out of the gate for those who are fans of the theme (and obviously you have some of the opposite, where some guys will be 'no way am I buying that theme'. But the success of machine needs more then the hard core fans, but that certainly can get sales moving fast. While hard core JJP fans jumped on Dialed In right away, most others were more apt to take a wait and see approach. Even with Houdini which is as close to a licensed theme you can get without being licensed, there was a 'wait and see' attitude with the exception of some hard core magic fans. Now part of that is the fact that were a new company and well, we have seen the recent track record on new companies. Now that we have shipped over 300 games, I think there are many collectors who are just now willing to give Houdini a real look.
Quoted from KingPinGames:Change the name to Joe, Jim, and Barry and you can just use internal security footage for the LCD screen... hahaha.
Hey just because I refer to those guys . . .
Quoted from fishbone:Replacing the "Octoberfest" theme with "Houdini" or "Cellphone Catastrophies" would render similiar results without any further machine info.
What people say they will buy, and what they will actually buy are rarely the same. And that certainly goes both ways, willing to bet there are some folks who said "no way will I buy an Iron Maiden machine' who have now placed orders. I'd also bet there were guys saying "Stars Wars is a must have theme" and have chosen not to drop the coin.
Quoted from LTG:After a night of partying Joe goes crazy and designs Apollo 26. Once in production American Pinball buys up every pinball ball is sight. So they can put 26 balls in each game for the craziest multiball ever.
Don't give him any ideas, I don't want to have to code for 26 balls.
Quoted from LTG:Their 3rd game will be Pinball Show. Featuring a mode for each pinball show in the country.
I can hear the complaints now "too many modes" and "you did not include our show"
Quoted from pinballlife:Come on man, Godzilla is F'ing awesome. Seriously love that game.
Great game, can be tough, tough enough that it can even survive being dropped down a flight of stairs. 
Quoted from playernumber4:Since when did pinball go anti-beer and boobs?
Quoted from pinballinreno:Need more food themes!
Quoted from LTG:Amusement Park
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Some music like this....
hmm, Beer, babes, food, music and amusement park rides/games -- what event, originating in Germany, but celebrated in cities around the world, features all of these things, hmm, let me think . . .
Quoted from hank527:I cannot see an Oktoberfest themed pin sell well.
Says the man with beer as his avatar
Quoted from mcbPalisade:How about Hogan's Heroes?
I did have a line from it in my custom game.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Ohh, and the ball could come out of that Laboa tree trunk. And the bed that goes up in barracks is the ball lock.
Shultz and Klinger on sling shot plastics.
Klinger? I think you have your war comedy TV shows mixed up,
Klinger -- was cross dressing corporal bucking for a section 8
Klink -- doofus in charge of German prison camp
Quoted from bobukcat:Good luck getting that one made in the current world!
Exactly, would be such a fun theme to do, heck, they even now silence the farting scene on some broadcasts of it. Maybe someone will do it as a one off
2 weeks later
Lots of great theme ideas, and some really terrible ones as well. Many of these are ones we have talked about, so you never know.
Quoted from FalconPunch:details about game 2 start about 49 minutes in
notice how they waited until I was about 3 shots of tequila in, before asking about game 2
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:I figured couple more shots and you would spill all the beans.
Fortunately those guys had other commitments, so we had to wrap it up. Was really good tequila so, kept re-filling my glass.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:If it was Petron Silver
Not much of a silver guy, I prefer things that are aged, this was a Casa Noble Anejo
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