(Topic ID: 217233)

American Pinball #2 - Start the Rumor Mill

By Arcadevudoo

5 years ago


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    #22 5 years ago

    I hope the Oktoberfest rumor isn't true, that sounds absolutely dreadful. Like all the downsides of a shitty license without any of the upsides of having a license.

    #43 5 years ago
    Quoted from rosh:

    Curious as to what you see at the 'downsides of a shitty license'. I typically see the downsides to a license being limitations on what you can do with assets, the characters, the story, the dialog, as well as the need to get approvals for everything and the impact that can have on your timeline that either can delay it or it forces you to take the path of least resistance where you know you will get things approved -- e.g. take no risks keep it simple and safe.

    In my mind there's a pretty simple upside/downside to the question of license or original. I'm simplifying, but the for the sake of answering your question clearly.

    Upside to license: People are familiar with it, you get fans excited before they even play it, you (hopefully) get a bunch of assets you can leverage, like movie clips or music or callouts, iconic art, all the goodies. It's an easier sale. It's the safe approach.

    Downside to license: You're creatively hampered by the constraints of the theme, be it by a studio, or just the nature of the license itself. There's little mystery, people walk up with expectations already, and if you don't meet them they're disappointed, and if you do they might be happy, but you have to do a certain amount of paint by numbers to achieve that. It's boring.

    Upside to original: You're free to go wild, and explore new paths. You can tell your own story, be imaginative, surprise people. There's nothing holding you back, no expectations, the sky is the limit. This is why making games is exciting, IMHO. Engineers might dig making the mechs, coders might love creative rules, but just as a big picture, I think making a game is about the whole story of it. And if it's a fancy lunchbox with a logo at the end of the day it's not as interesting to do. Pinball is so much work, I think you should fight for the work to be original.

    Downside to original: You don't get the built in fan base. You don't get the freebie assets, you're on your own to create it all. Just because it's original doesn't mean it's interesting. You could build a Full Throttle, and discover no one gives a shit about motorcycle racing. The pressure and opportunity are intertwined to come up with something good. It's more work, and the payoff isn't as certain, it's riskier, even if the reward might be more fulfilling.

    Oktoberfest has all the downsides of a corny license. People already have a picture in their head just hearing the name, it's well mined territory. I'm already thinking of stupid movies with drunk idiots and PG13 boobs. I'm turned off just hearing the name. Whatever the (pretend supposed) game is, or looks like, that's baggage. There's no mystery or excitement. Yay, beer. This is just a rumor, I'm hopefully not coming off as attacking anyone, it's not real as far as I know. I'm just saying that I hear the name and I'm instantly turned off. Not a great start for making a game.

    But it has none of the upsides. There's no existing art or callouts or anything particularly helpful beyond a name that might interest some, or turn off some. I don't care what the wizard mode is already, because I assume it has to do with chugging beer or something dumb, and not discovering a dragon or something. Doesn't matter if I'm totally wrong, that's the initial impression. I honestly can't think of anything beneficial it brings to the table. If you want to mine German heritage there's a rich history to go after. If you want a party game, with humor and fun, but you gotta write all the jokes and do all the art yourself, why tie yourself to something so unimaginative and overdone?

    You brought up Whitewater and Fishtales. First off, I hate Fishtales, the music and art and theme are awful, I'll never own it. (Don't hate me Fishtales fans! But I will point to how the price of it has never risen like other games, it's simply not a demand title.) Whitewater is a great game, had one, but it was a really well designed and fun game despite the theme, not because of it. At best it was innocuous, and you got Big Foot, and an excuse for some cool whirpool action, and a steep rapids ramp.

    A good game trumps all. A so so theme can be okay with a great game, but no one is clambering for another rafting game. Why not make a great game, but also an amazing theme, so it doesn't succeed despite it, but becomes one hell of a package?

    Anyways, you asked, there you go. I hope it's not a real rumor, and if it's a real game and I sounded like an asshole I do apologize, just playing the speculation game, not trying to shit on anyone's work.

    Quoted from Litedpinballmods:

    I remember all of the negative comments made about "Dialed In" when it was shown at Expo a couple of years ago. Many, many people did not play the game were giving negative reviews based on the name. Seems like "Dialed In" turned out OK.

    Nah, it carries the baggage still. People still deride it as the cell phone game with the dumb mom jeans hero. Heard it this weekend at Golden State. It's a Pat Lawlor game and it's fun to shoot, so you get over it, but the name and theme approach is still a mistake in my book. If nothing else it marred what could have been a great launch. I was there, people hated it. Why start on the wrong foot like that?

    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    Don't forget - Everybody talked trash about the Iron Maiden theme too.

    Uh, what? People have been BEGGING for an Iron Maiden game in huge numbers for years. That's ridiculous. Of course some people hate the band, every license has fans and haters, but "everybody talking trash" is utter nonsense.

    #88 5 years ago
    Quoted from Ferret:

    Not sure how Aurich missed an obvious bullet point on this one: licenses cost money. The "bigger" the license, the more expensive it's likely to be. Although I have no inside info, I kinda wonder if this is why Star Wars and GOTG, for example, are pretty bland... lots of money spent on a monster license takes away from the money available for R&D, toys, etc. It's the modern slot machine approach to theming: game B is pretty much the same as game A, just with A/V assets from a new license.

    This is a good point, but I would counter that the price includes a lot of assets that you otherwise have to create from scratch yourself, and that's a cost to factor also. In the end a license might not actually be that much more expensive, but it really depends on what you do, who you have to pay to make things etc.

    I'd say if you were smart you could definitely make an unlicensed game for cheaper, just wouldn't forget that the theme isn't "free".

    #108 5 years ago
    Quoted from luvthatapex2:

    I think an awesome second title would be Wrath of Olympus! Monsters and gods, 2 steps from hell soundtrack, multilevel wizard mode, lots of multiball action, 3 ramps, 6 flippers, tons of fun! That would be my vote for APs second game.

    They'll meet you in the middle with their new game, Wrath of Oktoberfest!

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