Honestly I know nothing or have heard nothing but I figured this thread wasn't out there so it should be started since Houdini's are shipping... and I have mine.
Looking forward to seeing the evolution...
(Topic ID: 217233)
I'm going to lay even money on one fact!
Game will have a knocker!
I have been told that this will be a Joe Balcer design.
( Update- Confirmed)
Hopkins, MN
Appears that it might be Oktoberfest..... https://trademarks.justia.com/875/60/oktoberfest-87560508.html
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:ouch. Not a WOZ fan?
Woz, Houdini .....bring it on Joe B., Im sold.
Breda, Holland
i heard the oktoberfest thing too, but not sure if its next or certain. just got to play houdini a few days ago. very cool. next one will be interesting to see
I’m not sure a theme based off of drinking would appeal to a large audience. Probably the same audience that likes the NASCAR pin ...
Quoted from Arcadevudoo:I’m not sure a theme based off of drinking would appeal to a large audience. Probably the same audience that likes the NASCAR pin ...
NASCAR isn’t really my bag, but I think Oktoberfest could be a really fun theme.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:I'm going to lay even money on one fact!
Game will have a knocker!
I have been told that this will be a Joe Balcer design.
( Update- Confirmed)
How about a pair of knockers? 
Melbourne
Quoted from LTG:Three Stooges
Not happening, at least not with me doing the rules and code. Not spending a year of my life with Larry, Moe and Curly.
Quoted from rosh:Not spending a year of my life with Larry, Moe and Curly.
Oh, a wise guy, eh? Soitenly! Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk!
LTG : )
Quoted from rosh:Not spending a year of my life with Larry, Moe and Curly.
A Barney pin.
A year of this would be way better. "I love you, you love me, We're a happy family" Sing until you drop like the Lollipop song.
LTG : )
I hope the Oktoberfest rumor isn't true, that sounds absolutely dreadful. Like all the downsides of a shitty license without any of the upsides of having a license.
What could you do with an Oktoberfest pin? Pretzels, beer, sausage, oompah music, mustard, women in tight clothing. Anything else? I only think this theme would work if it was a throw back early 80's type pin because the theme itself doesn't open up to story mode type gameplay of modern pinball.
Quoted from KozMckPinball:If it is a Stooges pin, you might get an Iggy Pop music pin.
That would be awesome!
Quoted from jkashani:Called today and they would not tell me the title but said it would reveal on October or November.
If October or November then it's not Oktoberfest. It's too late. Oktoberfest ends the first week of October.
I was at MGC and the whole American pinball crew was there. They had a presentation scheduled. I think it was even streamed somewhere. I went to the presentation and was the first person there. I asked the crew during Q&A, if there next game was licensed or not? I remember Rosh looking me straight in the eye and he and joe saying it was "unlicensed". Rosh might even remember me
"tall guy".
Also I asked "when do you (AP) intend to announce there next title" the group was told by the end of the year. I asked "expo maybe" shaking my hand back and forth. We all kinda laughed because know one knows if expo is going to happen. lol. I won the raffle prize. the whole AP crew signed it
Quoted from Aurich:that sounds absolutely dreadful. Like all the downsides of a shitty license without any of the upsides of having a license.
Not saying it is or isn't Oktoberfest, or any other theme mentioned, well except the Stooges, which I did say it is not.
I am surprised to hear you say that. I'm sure there were plenty who thought a machine based on fishing or whitewater rafting or a diner or amusement parks or the weather or golf or . . . . would be dreadful. It really comes down to what you do with it, which also applies to a 'great' theme. Look at Star Wars and Alien, both would be generally viewed as great themes, but one did a great job of bringing the theme to life through game play and theme implementation into the machine and the other, not so much.
Curious as to what you see at the 'downsides of a shitty license'. I typically see the downsides to a license being limitations on what you can do with assets, the characters, the story, the dialog, as well as the need to get approvals for everything and the impact that can have on your timeline that either can delay it or it forces you to take the path of least resistance where you know you will get things approved -- e.g. take no risks keep it simple and safe.
Quoted from rosh:I am surprised to hear you say that.
You shouldn't be he complains a lot {EDIT: Yes this IS coming from me}. He's super into "no themes" now until there's a no theme he doesn't like then the complaining starts.
Quoted from rosh:Curious as to what you see at the 'downsides of a shitty license'.
Most likely something to do with Oktoberfest fonts.
Quoted from rosh:I am surprised to hear you say that.
Rosh- Market research.
I feel it's very important to hear every complaint regarding any title. Does AP want to make a game no-one wants?
Many want to see AP succeed and not crash and burn with title #2. I also feel that a German themed pin with a joyful event such as Oktoberfest celebrating the Fall harvest is not a very good Idea. Many associate the title and theme with drinking beer. That's kind of an american embellishment of the event , same as Cinco de mayo. These events in there home countries don't necessarily revolve directly with drinking beer, but this is the idea most associated with these events.
Oktoberfest in home or Arcade setting? Not really what operators are looking for. I for one would never buy a beer drinking theme, even if it revolves around the family friendly event in Germany. Just not a home environment pin I want to stare at every day. The Fall harvest dates to pagan times and only in modern times has this grown to celebration of beer.
Just my opinion but from what I've heard and seen, Oktoberfest is not a home run. I've even spoken with a few operators and dealers and if you ask around I do feel the impression of this theme is; "DreadFul".
Themes are tricky and maybe I'd grow to love this one when I see it -- but I just have to agree that when I first heard it I was a bit flabbergasted.
How important are 'pre-sales' or people wanting it before it comes out is the question. To me it sounds a little weird but I'm cool with it. It will turn a lot of people off right away with the theme like even though they are stocked to the gills with horrible themes. It's the same thing with the jackasses that laughed at DI for whatever reason, and it took a while to get some steam moving there.
Might have to work hard to overcome it if it's true.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Rosh- Market research.
I feel it's very important to hear every complaint regarding any title. Does AP want to make a game no-one wants?
Market research extends way beyond Pinside.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Many want to see AP succeed and not crash and burn with title #2.
Agreed.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Oktoberfest celebrating the Fall harvest is not a very good Idea. Many associate the title and theme with drinking beer.
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:Not really what operators are looking for.
So barcades won't want it ? Actually operators do want adult themed games. May not be a hit for home arcades.
LTG : )
Quoted from Blitzburgh99:Stick with same period Americana....
I think this would be an awesome theme that you could do a lot with.
I remember all of the negative comments made about "Dialed In" when it was shown at Expo a couple of years ago. Many, many people did not play the game were giving negative reviews based on the name. Seems like "Dialed In" turned out OK.
Quoted from rosh:Curious as to what you see at the 'downsides of a shitty license'. I typically see the downsides to a license being limitations on what you can do with assets, the characters, the story, the dialog, as well as the need to get approvals for everything and the impact that can have on your timeline that either can delay it or it forces you to take the path of least resistance where you know you will get things approved -- e.g. take no risks keep it simple and safe.
In my mind there's a pretty simple upside/downside to the question of license or original. I'm simplifying, but the for the sake of answering your question clearly.
Upside to license: People are familiar with it, you get fans excited before they even play it, you (hopefully) get a bunch of assets you can leverage, like movie clips or music or callouts, iconic art, all the goodies. It's an easier sale. It's the safe approach.
Downside to license: You're creatively hampered by the constraints of the theme, be it by a studio, or just the nature of the license itself. There's little mystery, people walk up with expectations already, and if you don't meet them they're disappointed, and if you do they might be happy, but you have to do a certain amount of paint by numbers to achieve that. It's boring.
Upside to original: You're free to go wild, and explore new paths. You can tell your own story, be imaginative, surprise people. There's nothing holding you back, no expectations, the sky is the limit. This is why making games is exciting, IMHO. Engineers might dig making the mechs, coders might love creative rules, but just as a big picture, I think making a game is about the whole story of it. And if it's a fancy lunchbox with a logo at the end of the day it's not as interesting to do. Pinball is so much work, I think you should fight for the work to be original.
Downside to original: You don't get the built in fan base. You don't get the freebie assets, you're on your own to create it all. Just because it's original doesn't mean it's interesting. You could build a Full Throttle, and discover no one gives a shit about motorcycle racing. The pressure and opportunity are intertwined to come up with something good. It's more work, and the payoff isn't as certain, it's riskier, even if the reward might be more fulfilling.
Oktoberfest has all the downsides of a corny license. People already have a picture in their head just hearing the name, it's well mined territory. I'm already thinking of stupid movies with drunk idiots and PG13 boobs. I'm turned off just hearing the name. Whatever the (pretend supposed) game is, or looks like, that's baggage. There's no mystery or excitement. Yay, beer. This is just a rumor, I'm hopefully not coming off as attacking anyone, it's not real as far as I know. I'm just saying that I hear the name and I'm instantly turned off. Not a great start for making a game.
But it has none of the upsides. There's no existing art or callouts or anything particularly helpful beyond a name that might interest some, or turn off some. I don't care what the wizard mode is already, because I assume it has to do with chugging beer or something dumb, and not discovering a dragon or something. Doesn't matter if I'm totally wrong, that's the initial impression. I honestly can't think of anything beneficial it brings to the table. If you want to mine German heritage there's a rich history to go after. If you want a party game, with humor and fun, but you gotta write all the jokes and do all the art yourself, why tie yourself to something so unimaginative and overdone?
You brought up Whitewater and Fishtales. First off, I hate Fishtales, the music and art and theme are awful, I'll never own it. (Don't hate me Fishtales fans! But I will point to how the price of it has never risen like other games, it's simply not a demand title.) Whitewater is a great game, had one, but it was a really well designed and fun game despite the theme, not because of it. At best it was innocuous, and you got Big Foot, and an excuse for some cool whirpool action, and a steep rapids ramp.
A good game trumps all. A so so theme can be okay with a great game, but no one is clambering for another rafting game. Why not make a great game, but also an amazing theme, so it doesn't succeed despite it, but becomes one hell of a package?
Anyways, you asked, there you go. I hope it's not a real rumor, and if it's a real game and I sounded like an asshole I do apologize, just playing the speculation game, not trying to shit on anyone's work.
Quoted from Litedpinballmods:I remember all of the negative comments made about "Dialed In" when it was shown at Expo a couple of years ago. Many, many people did not play the game were giving negative reviews based on the name. Seems like "Dialed In" turned out OK.
Nah, it carries the baggage still. People still deride it as the cell phone game with the dumb mom jeans hero. Heard it this weekend at Golden State. It's a Pat Lawlor game and it's fun to shoot, so you get over it, but the name and theme approach is still a mistake in my book. If nothing else it marred what could have been a great launch. I was there, people hated it. Why start on the wrong foot like that?
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:Don't forget - Everybody talked trash about the Iron Maiden theme too.
Uh, what? People have been BEGGING for an Iron Maiden game in huge numbers for years. That's ridiculous. Of course some people hate the band, every license has fans and haters, but "everybody talking trash" is utter nonsense.
Ha! Only in a perfect world, Lloyd.
Quoted from LTG:Three Stooges
LTG : )
Quoted from LTG:Market research extends way beyond Pinside.
Agreed, Hope Market research would extend way beyond Pinside. Important for game #2 to have global appeal.
Quoted from LTG:So barcades won't want it ? Actually operators do want adult themed games. May not be a hit for home arcades.
I'm sure Barcades would be interested, All of them, NO. But wouldn't it be smarter to make a Theme that appeals across all Markets?
I would like to see a SAW pin from AP. A dark cool theme with a cool story and ideas for mich toys and Missions.
If it should a pin with no license... Something like SWAT.... With cool missions... Like ram a door with a captiveball or like got. Or sniper the Bad guys with different shots on the playfield...etc...
When I heard Oktoberfest, I immediately thought of a humorous 'beerfest' theme. I hope the game is light and funny.
I'm surprised more pinball games don't include humor. The games that don't take things too seriously seem quite popular.
Quoted from Aurich:In my mind there's a pretty simple upside/downside to the question of license or original. I'm simplifying, but the for the sake of answering your question clearly.
Upside to license: People are familiar with it, you get fans excited before they even play it, you (hopefully) get a bunch of assets you can leverage, like movie clips or music or callouts, iconic art, all the goodies. It's an easier sale. It's the safe approach.
Downside to license: You're creatively hampered by the constraints of the theme, be it by a studio, or just the nature of the license itself. There's little mystery, people walk up with expectations already, and if you don't meet them they're disappointed, and if you do they might be happy, but you have to do a certain amount of paint by numbers to achieve that. It's boring.
Upside to original: You're free to go wild, and explore new paths. You can tell your own story, be imaginative, surprise people. There's nothing holding you back, no expectations, the sky is the limit. This is why making games is exciting, IMHO. Engineers might dig making the mechs, coders might love creative rules, but just as a big picture, I think making a game is about the whole story of it. And if it's a fancy lunchbox with a logo at the end of the day it's not as interesting to do. Pinball is so much work, I think you should fight for the work to be original.
Downside to original: You don't get the built in fan base. You don't get the freebie assets, you're on your own to create it all. Just because it's original doesn't mean it's interesting. You could build a Full Throttle, and discover no one gives a shit about motorcycle racing. The pressure and opportunity are intertwined to come up with something good. It's more work, and the payoff isn't as certain, it's riskier, even if the reward might be more fulfilling.
Oktoberfest has all the downsides of a corny license. People already have a picture in their head just hearing the name, it's well mined territory. I'm already thinking of stupid movies with drunk idiots and PG13 boobs. I'm turned off just hearing the name. Whatever the (pretend supposed) game is, or looks like, that's baggage. There's no mystery or excitement. Yay, beer. This is just a rumor, I'm hopefully not coming off as attacking anyone, it's not real as far as I know. I'm just saying that I hear the name and I'm instantly turned off. Not a great start for making a game.
But it has none of the upsides. There's no existing art or callouts or anything particularly helpful beyond a name that might interest some, or turn off some. I don't care what the wizard mode is already, because I assume it has to do with chugging beer or something dumb, and not discovering a dragon or something. Doesn't matter if I'm totally wrong, that's the initial impression. I honestly can't think of anything beneficial it brings to the table. If you want to mine German heritage there's a rich history to go after. If you want a party game, with humor and fun, but you gotta write all the jokes and do all the art yourself, why tie yourself to something so unimaginative and overdone?
You brought up Whitewater and Fishtales. First off, I hate Fishtales, the music and art and theme are awful, I'll never own it. (Don't hate me Fishtales fans! But I will point to how the price of it has never risen like other games, it's simply not a demand title.) Whitewater is a great game, had one, but it was a really well designed and fun game despite the theme, not because of it. At best it was innocuous, and you got Big Foot, and an excuse for some cool whirpool action, and a steep rapids ramp.
A good game trumps all. A so so theme can be okay with a great game, but no one is clambering for another rafting game. Why not make a great game, but also an amazing theme, so it doesn't succeed despite it, but becomes one hell of a package?
Anyways, you asked, there you go. I hope it's not a real rumor, and if it's a real game and I sounded like an asshole I do apologize, just playing the speculation game, not trying to shit on anyone's work.Nah, it carries the baggage still. People still deride it as the cell phone game with the dumb mom jeans hero. Heard it this weekend at Golden Sate. It's a Pat Lawlor game and it's fun to shoot, so you get over it, but the name and theme approach is still a mistake in my book. If nothing else it marred what could have been a great launch. I was there, people hated it. Why start on the wrong foot like that?
Uh, what? People have been BEGGING for an Iron Maiden game in huge numbers for years. That's ridiculous. Of course some people hate the band, every license has fans and haters, but "everybody talking trash" is utter nonsense.
I agree with almost all of what you said as far as the pros and cons of licensed vs unlicensed themes. With Houdini, we had no assets, I had to create the 'story', map out the flow of the rules, what we would do with the display, write all the voice calls, our artist, animator and sound engineer had to start from scratch in creating assets to fit what I was trying to do (and putting up with my idiosyncrasies), and they all did a great job. And while we did not have to answer to a licensor, the reality is that is was very important to me to be true to the man. I decided on day one it was not going to be a magic themed pin with Houdini's name on it, it was going to be a celebration of the man's remarkable life. I was not going to include tricks he never did (as others would have), so while I did not have to get approvals from the license holder, I had to get approvals from myself.
There is no doubt that an unlicensed theme, is still a theme, and people will immediately react to it based on their own experiences and knowledge. DialedIn -- about a phone -- when it is far more than that, but it certainly took time for folks to look past that. Oktoberfest, pretty much most folks first reaction is it is about beer, when it is far more than that. BTW, if anyone thinks Oktoberfest is what is portrayed in the sophomoric film Beerfest (which sounds like what you were describing), well, you don't know anything about Oktoberfest, but movies like that certainly frame someone's viewpoint. The town I live in has a fall festival that is called "old home days", but is basically an Oktoberfest like festival, like so many towns and cities have. It most certainly has a beer tent (but since I am a tequila drinker, so I don't even visit the beer tent), but it also has a food tent, a music stage, and a carnival with rides and a midway as well as a big fireworks show. It attracts people of all ages and from neighboring towns, and it is something my family looks forward to every year I suspect most Oktoberfest and fall festivals feature similar things.
Whether we are next doing Oktoberfest or casino or the Kugler Family or Barnum and Bailey or Prince or Clash of the Titans or Saw or any of the other mentioned or rumored themes, at the end of the day what will matter most if it is a fun game that challenges and entertains -- and that is the true challenge and that is what will determine the success of it.
By the way, everyone should keep on guessing and throwing out unlicensed theme ideas, maybe you will get it right or maybe you will give us the idea for one of our future games.
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