he means when they took off the old silkscreen to apply the decals they were scraping the opaque parts of the inserts as well.. i.e., they should of seen the difference themselves.
(Topic ID: 114375)
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Indiana Jones: The Pinball Adventure
Williams, 1993
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Quoted from pinchamp:I have had a response from the guy that did the playfield but I am not sure I can post it here. I do need to let others know how horrible this guy is. I have never talked to the guy but I guess he just "heard" that I was not happy. His long, long and ongoing texts were so full of profanity and vicious personal attacks that I had to block his texts. I may post some of it here later but right now I dont even want to look at it right now because it is extremely hurtful and hateful. I can say that NO ONE should deal with this guy. I never even talked to him and his disrespectful tone and abusive language should not be tolerated.
Out the guy that botched your inserts. Name names and post texts. It will be a valuable warning to others looking for playfield restoration in your area. Normally, I'd hesitate before posting a private communication, but it sounds like he blew right by reasonable dialog and settled on harassment instead -- he deserves public recognition for his "excellent work" and "attentive customer service"!
Gardner, MA
Quoted from pinchamp:What do you mean by this?
I mean, how can they (anyone?) start scraping the decal off, and not notice the art under the letters? And then to replace the decals and not notice they're not the same? ridiculous. And as for where the decals came from...That's a thread for a different day...equally ridiculous.
I hope it works out for you, that's still a really nice game you have there so keep your chin up. It's just too rare of a playfield to fool around with.
Artwork on the inserts is screened in multiple layers. You don't just scrape off the numbers/letters and leave the color. Everything needs to be removed from the insert, then the new insert decal is applied.
Here's what the insert decals look like.
ebay.com link: Indiana Jones Pinball Machine Playfield Insert Decal Set Full COLOR UV Printed
Interestingly enough, I recently had Chris Hutchins touch up and clear an IJ playfield for me and a couple inserts had the same small chipping as this one. Chris flat out said the decals would not look good. Instead, he chose to repaint those small areas and it turned out great.
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:I mean, how can they (anyone?) start scraping the decal off, and not notice the art under the letters? And then to replace the decals and not notice they're not the same? ridiculous. And as for where the decals came from...That's a thread for a different day...equally ridiculous.
I hope it works out for you, that's still a really nice game you have there so keep your chin up. It's just too rare of a playfield to fool around with.
yup, if it is only a chip or goes into the art very little, you can salvage it. but if it goes into the art to much, you have to chip it all the way off. The white backed decals look 100X's better than these on clear.
At this point if the guy isn't willing to accept his responsibility for his restoration of your PF and he doesn't see any problem with those decals then I'd out him. I doubt anyone else wants a job done like that. Better for the community to know his work standard and not get burned
Quoted from anubis2night:At this point if the guy isn't willing to accept his responsibility for his restoration of your PF and he doesn't see any problem with those decals then I'd out him. I doubt anyone else wants a job done like that. Better for the community to know his work standard and not get burned
Title of this thread used to have "Lethbridge" in it. It's actually still in the page title for the link.
Quoted from kbliznick:Title of this thread used to have "Lethbridge" in it. It's actually still in the page title for the link.
Yep, Lethbridge should be put back in the title of the thread, but at least a search for Lethbridge will still lead you to this thread. I can't believe they didn't notice the issue with the decals.
Sana'a
I have been following this and the most ridiculous part of the whole saga is the response of the restorer to the complaint. If its exactly as stated, its idiotic-
Either they knew about this thread and were PISSED their name was being trashed and will soon regret their response when it settles in, in which case they will be apologizing when they wake up from their fog of war response... ... or they are just completely incompetent to manage a business.
I actually felt bad for them up until we hear about their response, what if they had just genuinely had a FUBAR of a day of work and had responded that they felt terrible and offered to fix it at no cost... I probably would have considered using them... yeah it sucks they made a mistake, but everyone does, and they would have proven themselves to be a stand up business and thats saying a bit... but now... no sympathy.
I mean seriously, if you do this for a living, yes this is a bit of work to redo but seriously, you know you can do this and its really just time... thats what happens when I screw up, I eat dirt and pay by having to work harder.
I don't see anyone who ever reads this thread ever calling them- for anything.
Calgary, AB
I have amended the topic as recommended. I started up this path just looking for a solution. When I called the guy who did the playfield my intent was not to ask him for a refund, not to ask him to fix it. I was just going to explain what happened and what it looked like and see what options he might come up with. I wanted him to know what he did as it really seemed he had no idea. I spoke to him on the phone for just a minute as he was busy at the time. He said he would call me back... The next day without any further conversation he unloaded with the text response.
I agree that it would not be fair for the pinball community to be kept in the dark about who this guy is. I know some people in Calgary have used him and have been happy. Perhaps they will continue to use him as they have had positive experiences in the past. However this is what you will get if things don't go properly... Also they are amateur and you will see by the text response they he is NOT a playfield restorer even by his own admission. This is not what I was led to believe at the start.
I was told that he did not want to do touch ups to the inserts as he was concerned about his reputation so he twisted my arm to pay more and have him scrape off and redo the decals. He said I would not be happy and his reputation would be ruined if he just did touch ups and did not redecal all the inserts. No he says he doesn't care about his reputation anyways... I dunno
OK - I am going to get this response out and done with so I can go on with posting the positive things about how this playfield is going to be fixed and restored to is previous glory. The text goes on for pages but here are the pieces that show the true colors of this guy who did the work...
"I am hearing all kids of shit from multiple people about you bitching about IJ...
I stupidly agreed to do you a favor and help you out. Now I gotta listen to complaints about how bright the insert decals are? What in the fuck do I have to do with the brightness of the decals/the quality/or how they were made? really? that's like ordering a set of new tires online..then having fountain tire install them for you..you then decide they aren't black enough for your liking.. so try and get fountain tire - a place that simply installed them for your.. to pay for new ones? give your head a shake..
Now you expect me to take care of things because u didnt like the decals u got online? yeah good luck with that. Do not contact me again..."
I responded "haha! Are you joking?"
He responded " Good luck with your IJ douchebag...stick the rest up your ass. bye bye."
I responsed " you absolutely butchered this playfield. dont you look at the work you do when you do it or do you just close your eyes? Was this the first pinball machine you ever saw or worked on? It should be the last one that is for sure"
He responded " WE ARE NOT A PINBALL RESTORATION COMPANY!!!!!!!!! Fuck sakes... clean your ears out you dumb fuck... We are pinball lovers who do favours..for fellow enthusiasts...its not about reputation... couldn't give a fuck what u think. The decals came from wherever the fuck you got them... talk to them."
Then he went on a rage about how I was a douchebag and my so called buddies say I am a douchebag and I am never happy and why don't I just go and buy another $10,000 IJ like the last three I lost money on... maybe the next one I will have better luck than the first 3. Or maybe I should get another hobby. He ended the rampage with:
"Be sure NOT to bother letting us know how it plays our for you..."
WOW - this text is even longer than I remember it. Sorry I dont know how much more of this people should or need to read. If you have had enough stop reading I guess...
I tried to defend " Sorry you feel that way. I have not demanded anything. I have not asked for anything. These decals were bad... they were translucent and should never have been put on and cleared over. You can make personal insults. That is fine. I am not a person like you and would never launch a personal attack against someone I do not know. I wasn't asking you to fix anything. I just wanted to let you know what happened with hopes you might know what to look for and what to do better in the future. I dont understand why YOU are attacking ME. The playfield is terrible. You can see all the edges on the decals (they were not painted in) and they are translucent (that means there is no color on them and you can see through them). I understand now that you are not a playfield restorer. I did not know anything about you before. I understand you don't care anything about your reputation... That is obvious. Sorry you started this by attacking me personally. I wont do the same. Maybe just have a drink and relax a little. Its no big deal"
Then he unloaded with his final massive text which I then blocked him after. Here is some of it:
"I dont need to look for anything in the future bud...for the last fucking time.. this is not my fucking career!!!!! If u know so much about it... then do it yourself professor."
He then went on to say he just did what he was told and if I wanted it done right I should have paid more and not asked to cut corners. If I wanna see top shelf machines I can come and see his machines. He ended with "More calm I could not be...Playing one of our many beauties..and having more than just one beer your suggested...best of luck on the next 3 IJ's ... professor...haha"
I did respond before blocking him. I told him it was them that suggested the decals and all I wanted was touch ups and clearcoat. I told him I could tell it was not a career by what he did. I told him to take the bottles back to the depot so he could buy another 24. I said to keep drinking his life away and attacking people personally and I am sure life will reward him for that.
I know that is a super long forum string. It is a complete mess but this playfield is going to be fixed. It is going to be costly but it will be fixed right. I will keep updating as it comes together and I appreciate the support I have received on the forum here to help alleviate the misery.
I guess looking at that.. he seems most upset you provided the decals that you're now pissed about. This seems like a legit thing to be pissed at you about? Though, you mention he suggested them so there's that.
BTW.. earlier:
Toward the end of the process it was recommended to me (not by the person doing the restoration) that I should consider having the playfield touched up and clearcoated because of some of the wearing at the edges of some of the inserts.
So who is flipping out.. the "not the person doing the restoration" or the guy doing the restoration? There was the middle man earlier.. just trying to understand (and maybe see both sides a little bit).
Well now that I read that I realize what a jerk you are. He did you a favor. Obviously doing you a favor he didn't charge you anything right? lol
Seriously though, did you provide him the decals?
Sounds like this guy "might" know how to shoot a coat of clear, but that's a long way from being able to restore a playfield. Sorry someone pointed you in his direction, but hopefully your plight will keep anyone else from using him. I don't actually care if it was bad work or not, launching into that kind of tirade to a paying customer is just outrageous.
Oh and I know he meant it as a dig, but personally I love that a knuckle dragger called you Professor. Good thing you weren't face to face he might have tried to give you an atomic wedgie. Sadly he did get your lunch money.
Yes, there is someone local here in Calgary that has used the guy in Lethbridge before. He is the one that recommended I have the playfield touched up and clearcoated by them. He is also the one that ordered the decals online from Bay Area Amusements. I have been in touch with a number of actual playfield restoration people and they all say that as a restorer you have to look at the materials you are working with before you start scraping and sticking stuff on. But yes, the restorer is the one that recommended NOT to do touch ups and to order the decals.
Quoted from n0s4atu:Well now that I read that I realize what a jerk you are. He did you a favor. Obviously doing you a favor he didn't charge you anything right? lol
Yeah - I guess $850 to destroy a playfield should be considered a favor. He did not want to pay for and order the decals. My contact here in Calgary that referred him to me had an order coming to Canada from Bay Area Amusements so he added the decals to that order and I paid him. I talked to Classic Arcades who made the decals and they have not made the non white backed decals for many many years... it seems it was the last set at Bay Area (even though they showed ZERO sets in stock). So someone there grabbed a set of the old decals which should never have been sold.
I am the first to realize that this was not 100% the fault of the guy doing the playfield. However should he not take some responsiblity for the work he did and cleared over and returned?
Then he went on a rage about how I was a douchebag and my so called buddies say I am a douchebag. (quote)
Sorry to hear about your ij trouble. I hope it will work out for you as I know ij is your holy grail. I know for me personally I will not buy any machine that has been clear coated. Too many things can go wrong, you ever seen clear crack and peel on a car? I like to play my pins not have them as a trophy(that's just me). I hope you can find nos playfield because I think that would be the best path to go.Or maybe talk to Ross I know he said he was talking about getting rid of his ij. I hope things will workout for you.
it sounds like you need to chose your friends wisely. True friends stand with you not behind you.
Quoted from pinchamp:that's like ordering a set of new tires online..then having fountain tire install them for you..you then decide they aren't black enough for your liking..
Fountain tire probably would notice if the tires were shitty and then wouldn't weld the rims onto your hubs.
Captain Neo has graciously agreed to fix and restore my IJ playfield! I have ordered the correct decals from Classic Arcades (the ones with double white backing and not laminated). The playfield will be again taken apart, packed and shipped down to Neo. I hope that he will document his work here so we can see what it is going to take to get this playfield back to its original glory. He knows it is not going to be an easy job but he is up to the task and he has a great reputation for doing outstanding work. I am excited to have some positive momentum now to start moving this forward in the right direction. Thanks Neo - I will get this to you ASAP...
I talked to the poster, and he really got screwed. first off the person who gets paid is responsible for the job. It dosent matter if he bought the materials from someone else to the owner. second, they had to see the difference compaired to the other decals.
I have experience with classic arcades decals and that is not theirs. they have color in the background, and when it comes to their horrible print, what you do it repaint over them and use them as a template.
A IJ core is going to cost between 600-1200 depending on the quality, and condition. You can see the other inserts were not painted on the cracks where the insert meets the wood, and on decals you have to paint them in or they look like decals. The poster got screwed, and I sure hope he at least gets his money back, because removing those inserts without damaging the art around them is not as easy as it sounds.
Everyone has an opinion, and I wouldn't have posted here if I felt what I had to say should carry some weight since I do it for a living. It would be a crime to install that pf.
I don't fix other restorers work any more because it usually cost more than they charged originally just to get it right. its not very rewarding. Just a crap sandwich all around, I hope the folks who did the work make it right.
KRUZMAN
Quoted from pinchamp:Captain Neo has graciously agreed to fix and restore my IJ playfield! I have ordered the correct decals from Classic Arcades ...
Great news pinchamp, congrats! Looking forward to progress pics too, Captain Neo.
But the next thing you need to do is replace the hardware (current color looks like crap). Spend the extra money to have everything brass plated - and don't forget the gun handle. After Captain Neo has repaired your playfield, everything has been reassembled, brass hardware and non-glare glass (order that too) have been added ....then you will have your holy grail, my friend.
Not sure if we have a review section for vendors (something like yelp) but it would be helpful for sure
Quoted from kruzman:The poster got screwed, and I sure hope he at least gets his money back, because removing those inserts without damaging the art around them is not as easy as it sounds.
Just a crap sandwich all around, I hope the folks who did the work make it right.
Not going to happen. These guys are not going to stand behind the work they do, they ha e no interest in fixing and definitely no money back. As shown above, any and all communication was abusive against me before I even said anything. They don't care about their reputation and will not make anything right. My expectation is that NEO will be able to work carefully to avoid damaging any art around the inserts. That is my only hope at this point.
Playfield is being taken apart soon and will hopefully be on its way to Neo within the week. I am not at all focused on the guys in Lethbridge. They are out of my mind and I am fine with that. I have definitely learned a thing or two going through this... Too bad can't say the same for them.
2 months later
1 month later
Playfield is done being repaired. Neo did a great job. I have learned my lesson... Clearcoating is one thing but playfield touch ups and repairs should only be handled by those with significant experience. It was an expensive lesson but I am just glad my playfield was able to be repaired to its original glory. image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg
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