Am I The Only One?

(Topic ID: 215984)

Am I The Only One?


By PinMagnet

9 months ago



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  • 29 posts
  • 22 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by jwilson
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    #1 9 months ago

    Am i the only one that thinks they aren't as creative now as the mid 90's? Pins made during the mid 90's had unique/creative elements on the play field. Stern is just re-theming the same stuff over and over. Maybe I'm wrong.

    #2 9 months ago
    Quoted from PinMagnet:

    Am i the only one that thinks they aren't as creative now as the mid 90's? Pins made during the mid 90's had unique/creative elements on the play field. Stern is just re-theming the same stuff over and over. Maybe I'm wrong.

    I’m with ya. Love the unique features on 3 of my machines. 90’s was a great time for pinball.

    #3 9 months ago
    Quoted from PinMagnet:

    Am i the only one that thinks they aren't as creative now as the mid 90's? Pins made during the mid 90's had unique/creative elements on the play field. Stern is just re-theming the same stuff over and over. Maybe I'm wrong.

    Jjp has some neat stuff but overall the 90s had some neat shit going on

    #4 9 months ago

    Perhaps its easier (and more profitable) to make a lot of pinball machines with popular themes vs. invest in R+D -- the creative stuff now seems to be in the hands of the newer, smaller companies. . . perhaps the perfection of the three spinning disks is still in our future.

    #5 9 months ago

    I think a lot was different back then. More machines were being built and were for operators putting games on location, where pretty much any new game was going to make money.

    I think companies and designers play it a little safer today...there’s probably not the same room and appetite for risk taking when trying to appeal to the home market.

    #6 9 months ago

    Different markets. The 90s was about wowing people off the street and making people say "wow, what's this gonna do?", the modern era is (I'm being slightly cynical but probably not at all unrealistic) about holding on to the same group of people for as long as possible. Stern knows that there exists a group of people who will gladly shell out the big bucks for almost any new pinball machine, and what are they going to do, just stop buying pinball machines?

    #7 9 months ago

    Different eras for sure. 90’s games were about the wow factor and earning money on location where as today’s games are deep code for the home environment. I think the same capacity for creativity still exists but the market has changed.

    #8 9 months ago

    I think things have shifted. There are some creative playfield elements, but now a lot of the creativity is in the code. Batman 66, Metallica, Walking Dead, Star Wars, Iron Maiden all have some really creative code. Rudy (Funhouse) has 5 coils for just ONE toy. That will never happen in 2018. But on the other hand the code for Funhouse isn't super deep and can be beat pretty fast despite how fun it is.

    #9 9 months ago
    Quoted from bigd1979:

    Jjp has some neat stuff but overall the 90s had some neat shit going on

    How_neat_is_that (resized).png

    #10 9 months ago
    Quoted from PinMagnet:

    Am i the only one that thinks they aren't as creative now as the mid 90's? Pins made during the mid 90's had unique/creative elements on the play field. Stern is just re-theming the same stuff over and over. Maybe I'm wrong.

    You're not right or wrong, or both, but there's some memberberries in there for sure.

    With fewer games produced these days, it's hard not to dwell on the "similarities" of the PFs.
    Guess what, Ritchie's same 2ish layouts, Lawlors standard layouts, Borg stealing Lawlors layouts; they were all there in full force....there was just more releases to distract you (and you weren't spending 5K+ per game so you didn't care as much).

    Are Borg's 2015 Kiss & 2017 Aerosmith that are EXACTLY the same a little insulting; of course.
    1990 - funhouse & Whirlwind, 1992 - Addams
    Standard layouts

    #11 9 months ago

    When data East (stern) was ripping off every single Williams feature and layout in the early 1990s it was pretty laughable.

    No point in doing that today. Stern has carved a nice little niche for themselves as the only manufacturer making affordable, kickass, full-featured pins, with games that have their own style.

    You want gimmick laden “innovative” pins that don’t play well? There’s a new company every year making those available these days too.

    #12 9 months ago
    Quoted from PinMagnet:

    Am i the only one that thinks they aren't as creative now as the mid 90's? Pins made during the mid 90's had unique/creative elements on the play field. Stern is just re-theming the same stuff over and over. Maybe I'm wrong.

    You might want to check out Iron Maiden or TWD if you want kick ass unique creativity both in design and rules. GOT or SW if you're a rules/strategy junkie.

    #13 9 months ago
    Quoted from Eskaybee:

    You might want to check out Iron Maiden

    Layout is just a loose spin off of Demo Man

    #14 9 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    When data East (stern) was ripping off every single Williams feature and layout in the early 1990s it was pretty laughable.

    It’s way cheaper to copy others then innovate your own product.

    #15 9 months ago
    Quoted from GLSP3022:

    Layout is just a loose spin off of Demo Man

    Well, isn’t the OP looking for 90s style game in a modern pin? Seems like a no brainer if that’s how you really feel cause the rules actually utilize all the shots unlike demo

    #16 9 months ago
    Quoted from Eskaybee:

    Well, isn’t the OP looking for 90s style game in a modern pin? Seems like a no brainer if that’s how you really feel cause the rules actually utilize all the shots unlike demo

    It’s really not like demo man at ALL; there are ramps with loops, that’s it

    #17 9 months ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    It’s really not like demo man at ALL; there are ramps with loops, that’s it

    I know. I was just playing around.

    #18 9 months ago
    Quoted from Eskaybee:

    I know. I was just playing around.

    Gotcha . Sorry about that, not sure why I got fired up! Haha

    #19 9 months ago

    I'll agree. Sometimes I wonder how games would do then vs. now if they came out at the exact same time. I love how there's a lot of great 90's games are $2000-$2500. If those games were made today, they'd be in the $5-$6000k range.

    #20 9 months ago
    Quoted from woody24:

    I'll agree. Sometimes I wonder how games would do then vs. now if they came out at the exact same time. I love how there's a lot of great 90's games are $2000-$2500. If those games were made today, they'd be in the $5-$6000k range.

    If those games came out today at that price, can you imagine the outrage over the rudimentary code with almost zero of the precious "depth and breadth" pinside has come to love since Stern started redefining what pinball code should be in 2003 or so?

    "Sure, the Thing Hand is neat. But WHERE'S THE CODE?!"

    "Jiggly martians are a nice distraction, but there's like 5 things to do in this game. Are they really gonna just leave the code like that while they count our money?!"

    "Yeah W/B fanboys, enjoy your spinning trunk while I'm playing a game with ACTUAL CODE."

    You get the picture.

    #21 9 months ago

    I think where we are all going wrong is, The Pinball Machine is a device that was created to be a commercial machine that you put money into. You were supposed to play it a couple of times and the next time you were at the tavern/pizzeria there was a new game there to entice you to drop your quarters.

    These are not console games with 100 of playable hours. They were never made to be in your home to provide years and years of entertainment.

    That said they have certainly evolved into a deeper and richer experience (LOTR, WOZ, Walking Dead etc).

    If you sit and think about it, Pinball collecting is berserk at these current prices.

    #22 9 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    If those games came out today at that price, can you imagine the outrage over the rudimentary code with almost zero of the precious "depth and breadth" pinside has come to love since Stern started redefining what pinball code should be in 2003 or so?
    "Sure, the Thing Hand is neat. But WHERE'S THE CODE?!"
    "Jiggly martians are a nice distraction, but there's like 5 things to do in this game. Are they really gonna just leave the code like that while they count our money?!"
    "Yeah W/B fanboys, enjoy your spinning trunk while I'm playing a game with ACTUAL CODE."
    You get the picture.

    TNA?

    #23 9 months ago

    Total Nuclear Annihilation built by Spooky Pinball
    -Mike

    #24 9 months ago
    Quoted from Grizlyrig:

    Total Nuclear Annihilation built by Spooky Pinball
    -Mike

    I was referring to Levi's claim that there would be outrage over rudimentary code at today's prices. TNA is a good example that that's not the case. People are tripping all over each other to pay $6k (and even more) for a game with basic code.

    #25 9 months ago

    They just don't make good nostalgia anymore.

    #26 9 months ago
    Quoted from Allibaster:

    I was referring to Levi's claim that there would be outrage over rudimentary code at today's prices. TNA is a good example that that's not the case. People are tripping all over each other to pay $6k (and even more) for a game with basic code.

    The whole concept of TNA is throwback.

    If Stern started putting out games like Iron Maiden except with TNA-style code there'd be a shitstorm!

    Also it's not really a claim, more of a hypothetical.

    #27 9 months ago

    Williams is Williams and Stern is "Sega Continued". That's all one really needs to know. Stern has had a few great games with a whole lot of mediocrity. Williams had a few mediocre games with a whole lot of great ones.

    #28 9 months ago

    We seem to be headed to an another era of greatness.

    #29 9 months ago

    Stern / Data East / Sega / Stern have always been followers, it's in the DNA of the company. It was easy to just follow Williams and price the games $100 cheaper. But they were left adrift when WMS closed down pinball and were the last ones standing and suddenly they had to be industry leaders. So there were many years of pretty mediocre games.

    Then they hired all the WMS staff and sort of made an effort, but even the WMS guys couldn't erase the base line "cheap knockoff" mentality, driven by Gary. That's why every game has a manual plunger and three pops.

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