(Topic ID: 83736)

PIGGY DEUX - Gottlieb System 80B Daughterboard/Piggyback Fix (plug-and-play)


By acebathound

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 143 posts
  • 33 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by acebathound
  • Topic is favorited by 27 Pinsiders

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    There are 143 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 4 years ago

    please me please

    #52 4 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    Looks like I'll actually be able to get some of these out for beta testing! Just got the boards in yesterday and the new revision booted right up. Just have to look at the signals on the scope a bit and if they check out, then I'll get half a dozen or so assembled and ready to send out to interested parties.
    Beta test info to follow soon..
    piggy1_(resized).jpg
    piggy2_(resized).jpg

    Great news!

    #53 4 years ago

    Signals look decent on the scope. So onto some beta testing..

    BETA TESTING INFO
    I'm interested in getting some boards sent out to 6-8x people -- one board per person. The discounted price will be $20.00ea and I'll include shipping for that price (within the continental US). So you save a pretty good amount over what I'm expecting to offer these at after beta testing ($30-35ea + shipping) in exchange for providing some immediate feedback, then testing for a week or two and letting me know everything's still working well.

    Who I'm Looking For
    You must have an MPU/game that is accessible & ready to test.. not folded up, in storage, etc (happens often enough). I'm also mainly looking for people who are pretty sure their issues are daughter-board related (ie. pressing on the daughter-board causes lockups/resets or allows the machine to boot) so this can be more of a targeted beta test. I've also made a few exceptions to people that want to game-play test this a bit, but keeping that list somewhat limited. Not looking for people with unknown non-working or corroded boards that may have other issues or that are unable to test soon after getting the board. Would really like to get some immediate feedback on these, so if you can't for whatever reason test soon after getting the board then please hold off.

    Installation
    Boards will be ready-to-go.. except you'll need to pop your 2764 EPROM from the original daughter-board and install it in the PIGGYDEUX. Then you'll remove the board from the TC1 socket (if it's currently installed) and plug in the PIGGYDEUX. Then it's ready to test.

    Reset Board Functionality
    For anyone that has a working RESET board, please let me know if you're interested in testing out a wire harness to the reset board.. I'll pick a few people randomly to send a wire harness to for testing that will have an in-line plug to disconnect the IRQ signal and cause a situation where the reset board kicks in. So there will some additional testing steps, but nothing that will take more than a few minutes of time.

    List Of Beta Testers
    Here's who had expressed interest in beta testing. I'd like to add a few more people, so please read the above info and if it sounds like you're a fit.. let me know. I'll be contacting the individuals below [unless they contact me first] early next week when I have some boards ready to ship.

    For resolving daughter-board issues:
    -PinDescabarian
    -davkonw
    -dothedoo
    -Barry (via email)
    -ChrisHibler

    For game-play testing:
    -blownfuse
    -shimoda
    -cfh
    -ChrisHibler

    Full Refund If It Doesn't Work Out
    I don't expect issues, but if for some reason something doesn't work out with this first small round of boards going out, I'll offer a full refund if you ship the board back to me. That way there's not a lot of risk here and most likely you get a nice discount on a board that is good-to-go.

    ---
    http://www.pinitech.com - "Pinball Inspired Technology"
    Kits, upgrades and test equipment for pinball machines

    #54 4 years ago

    Bummer, I'm out, I'd love to be involved with testing but my only 80B game is working and without issues (at the moment).

    Steve
    System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure

    #55 4 years ago
    Quoted from blownfuse:

    Bummer, I'm out, I'd love to be involved with testing but my only 80B game is working and without issues (at the moment).
    Steve
    System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure

    Hey Steve, I'll make an exception if you want one since I know you're a huge 80B fan!

    Just was trying not to get too many people that were interested in the discount but where I wasn't actually getting the kind of feedback needed on these. But it still would be helpful to send one out to you if you can put some game-play time on it.

    #56 4 years ago

    Okay, cool then, please PM me when you need payment/my address and I'll gladly beta test it.

    Steve

    Quoted from acebathound:

    Hey Steve, I'll make an exception if you want one since I know you're a huge 80B fan!
    Just was trying not to get too many people that were interested in the discount but where I wasn't actually getting the kind of feedback needed on these. But it still would be helpful to send one out to you if you can put some game-play time on it.

    #57 4 years ago

    Hook me up please. Here's my system 80 test fixture running a B mpu with a B soundboard and a B display panel. Also have a Gottlieb genesis that I can use too which is set up it's fully working.

    image_(resized).jpg

    #58 4 years ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    Hook me up please. Here's my system 80 test fixture running a B mpu with a B soundboard and a B display panel. Also have a Gottlieb genesis that I can use too which is set up it's fully working.

    Sounds good! I added you to the list as well.

    #59 4 years ago

    I do have a working reset board so happy to test anything there.

    #60 4 years ago

    For resolving game play AND for daughter card issues. I have several MPUs in the shop, one completely missing the daughter card.

    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

    #62 4 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    For resolving game play AND for daughter card issues. I have several MPUs in the shop, one completely missing the daughter card.

    Cool, got you added.

    Quoted from shimoda:

    I do have a working reset board so happy to test anything there.

    Yeah actually any of the people that are on the lists, LMK if you'd want to test a reset board harness. I'll get 3x or so out there. You can be one of them

    #63 4 years ago

    I have a bonebusters with a swemmer mpu, I do not have the reset board hooked up, I tried hooking it up but it caused problems, I need a harness and reset board. Can I get on the list to beta test?

    #64 4 years ago
    Quoted from Colehvac1:

    I have a bonebusters with a swemmer mpu, I do not have the reset board hooked up, I tried hooking it up but it caused problems, I need a harness and reset board. Can I get on the list to beta test?

    If your reset board caused issues when connected, this board wouldn't solve that as it's not a complete replacement for the actual reset board -- which looks like this: http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/MA-1143

    There's also an MPU-to-Reset DIP board that plugs into the TC1 socket and makes the connections between the actual reset board and the MPU. These often get abused a bit over the years -- or go missing if someone decided to disconnect the reset board entirely: http://www.docentelectronics.com/httpdocs/AmusementGames/Pinball/Gottlieb/CAGS7-TC1-C.jpg

    This PIGGYDEUX board could take the place of the 2nd board / harness (that plugs into the TC1 socket) but would not be the replacement for the physical reset board (1st link) if yours is missing/bad. I may at some point create a small board with the reset board's circuits that would piggy-back into the PIGGYDEUX, but the functionality for a complete replacement is not currently on the board so it's not a replacement itself.

    If you're still interested in testing, I don't mind getting this tested with the Swemmer board though. You may just still have issues with the reset board connected if capacitors on that have failed from old age.

    #65 4 years ago

    Another note..

    I'm pretty sure this PIGGYDEUX board could be used with Marco's 2764 test EPROM [as a diagnostic tool] with a couple of small mods. Solder a 2.2k ohm resistor on A6 (pin #4 of the 2764 footprint) connected to the cathode of an led.. then connect the anode of the led to +5v which you can pick up at pin #1 on the 2764 footprint. Really any resistor over about 1.2k should work, but probably better off a bit higher since it's an address line sinking the current. Heatshrink tubing over the connections.. can wrap the 3mm led around to the front of the board. Should be able to use a small 1/8 watt resistor and 3mm led have it fit it in there pretty nicely. Another option is a 28-pin machine-pin socket modified with the resistor/led & Marco's EPROM installed.. then it's removable. Haven't tested this yet myself, but I'll attempt it at some point

    #66 4 years ago

    Anyone interested in the beta test that I had on the list, you should now have received a PM from me with the link to order a PIGGYDEUX.

    #67 4 years ago

    Herd of pigs!

    Thought I might get clever and put a pig pen around them, but ran out of steam

    piggydeux_herd_(resized).jpg

    #68 4 years ago

    Just donated on Pay pal. Looking forward to testing.

    Danny

    #69 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinDescabarian:

    Just donated on Pay pal. Looking forward to testing.
    Danny

    Awesome, looking forward to finally getting these out in the wild. I hope it solves some people's problems quick!

    #70 4 years ago

    Donated about an hour ago. Thanks for doing this!

    #71 4 years ago

    Got 5x of these shipped out today (any without the wire harnesses). I have shimoda & davkonw down for a wire harness, should be getting those shipped out tomorrow.

    #72 4 years ago

    Received my Piggydeux today for beta testing. I have a Genesis that was booting intermittently and was passing the Quickscan80 tests consistantly and is no longer booting to attract. I highly suspect the original daughter board as the
    problem and was not looking forward to removing it.

    I generally remove the daughter board and replace it with a GPE replacement daughter board. Unfortunately GPE is out of stock for most of the assemblies offered, likely due to having to work for a living.

    I pulled the game prom from the MPU without removing the MPU as I have a handy-dandy chip puller that works great on
    24 pin chips, and struggles some on some sticky 40 pin versions.

    I put the game prom in, oriented pin 1 as indicated on the board -- which is opposite of the TC1 socket orientation. Put the
    PiggyDeux on the MPU and powered up the machine.

    And behold, the machine booted into attract without problem. The Piggy power LED is green, and the reset is retina burning orange. Really bright for such as small LED. Nice to be able to fix a daughter board problem without having to remove the
    stubborn thing.

    As I go through this machine I will report on the longer term application for the PiggyDuex.

    So consider PiggyDuex as resolving a Gottlieb 80B MPU daughter board problem.

    #73 4 years ago
    Quoted from minnesota13:

    The Piggy power LED is green, and the reset is retina burning orange. Really bright for such as small LED. Nice to be able to fix a daughter board problem without having to remove the
    stubborn thing.
    As I go through this machine I will report on the longer term application for the PiggyDuex.
    So consider PiggyDuex as resolving a Gottlieb 80B MPU daughter board problem.

    That's great to hear! Thanks for trying it out so quick & reporting your results!

    Yeesh, yeah those leds pack a punch! =] I think I'll try out some higher resistor values and see what I can bump them up to. I've noticed that green, for whatever reason.. isn't very bright and gets drowned out by other colors. I thought maybe it wouldn't be so bad with orange, but it looks like it just isn't very bright PERIOD.

    I'll probably go red for power (since I'd think most people would associate red/green with power)... and then blue for reset. Getting green out of there will let me go with a higher resistance value on both leds & I can get it not-so retina burning. Maybe just a slow singe instead

    #74 4 years ago

    Am I missing something here? This looks like a poor design to me. See the attached picture below. With the stock daughterboard in place, the TC1 board will not fit. Why would you design a board like this? These things need to coexist. Unless I have it mounted 180° wrong? But I'm lining up pin one to pin one....

    image_(resized).jpg

    #75 4 years ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    Am I missing something here? This looks like a poor design to me. See the attached picture below. With the stock daughterboard in place, the TC1 board will not fit. Why would you design a board like this? These things need to coexist. Unless I have it mounted 180° wrong? But I'm lining up pin one to pin one....

    Yep you have the PIGGYDEUX board upside down (180 degrees). Per instructions, with the MPU facing you and TC1 socket at the top, the pig drawing on the PIGGYDEUX should be on the left & silkscreen text readable (not upside down). There should be plenty of clearance that way. Note to everyone, there should be instructions included. If I forgot them for anyone, please contact me and I'll send you a PDF.

    Pin #1 is marked on the 2764 eprom socket since its orientation is different than the TC1 socket (I wanted to make sure no one accidentally plugged in their eprom wrong so have mentioned this in the instructions & also marked the pin on the board). Pin #1 is also marked on the TC1 footprint (with just a "1") if you look at the bottom left of the PIGGYDEUX board when the board is oriented so the silkscreen text is readable.

    I can get some better pictures in the instructions (ie. board horizontal and show the positioning of the PIGGYDEUX when inserted into the TC1 socket) to make that a bit more clear. It's actually a good thing the board won't fit in there the wrong way though. Then the only concern for incorrect orientation is the eprom.

    #76 4 years ago

    Well dang then it's a good design because I can plug it in only one way. But why don't the pin 1s lined up? shouldn't they lineup? That would make more sense right? Just saying...

    #77 4 years ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    Well dang then it's a good design because I can plug it in only one way. But why don't the pin 1s lined up? shouldn't they lineup? That would make more sense right? Just saying...

    Mainly a clearance thing due to using a DIP socket. The first prototype(s) were like that -- pin1 on the eprom was near pin1 on the TC1 footprint. But I wanted to use a regular DIP-28 socket on these (more forgiving when installing eproms) and the frame of it only has openings for male pins to pass under on one side of it. Moving it over top the bottom 20-pin male header would have caused clearance issues with the PIGGYDEUX & the original daughterboard (as you saw when the board was flipped 180 degrees). So the socket had to be oriented the opposite direction. Otherwise pin 1's would have lined up.

    Good to get feedback though, I'll get a better diagram in the instructions that shows the MPU with TC1 at the top & an illustration of the PIGGYDEUX installed.

    #78 4 years ago

    If the original ROM daughter board wasn't there, i could (would?) have plugged it in backwards. if you do this i assume you'll smoke the EPROM. Perhaps a big warning label on the board is needed too...

    #79 4 years ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    If the original ROM daughter board wasn't there, i could (would?) have plugged it in backwards. if you do this i assume you'll smoke the EPROM. Perhaps a big warning label on the board is needed too...

    I figured the picture below (along with mentioning how to orient the board during installation) was adequate. That along with marking pin 1, pin 40 of the TC1 footprint on the silkscreen, having a silkscreen representation of a notch on there by the TC1 footprint.. and then marking "Pin 1 (2764 EPROM)" as well.

    piggydeux_overview_(resized).jpg

    I could be wrong though -- and again, feedback from you and others on that kind of thing is good so I can make changes to diagrams, add additional warning papers, etc if necessary.

    I had the option of having the socket on the board as it is (oriented the opposite direction) and keeping EPROM pin #1 down by the TC1 pin #1. That would have meant you install the eprom notch opposite the socket notch (ie. non-conventional way of using a socket). I thought that'd be a much worse idea considering most people are used to being able to match the socket notch with the IC notch. Probably a lot more chance for eproms to get destroyed that way than having flipped the socket / connections entirely.

    Anyway, if anything with install is unclear, I don't mind doing what I can to fix it. There will always be a chance someone out there will not read anything, tear off warning papers that were attached, etc.. and still "get it wrong" -- but you do your best in preventing that from happening to take care of 99.9% of the issue. The rest is up to the installer.

    Probably the best thing I can do is have a better diagram similar to the one above and TAPE IT to the board/socket. So that people *have* to remove it in order to install. That way for anyone that just tosses the instructions, there's a better chance they'll read it.

    #80 4 years ago

    As a follow up, this thing rocks. Replaces a problem for all these games without requiring any desoldering/soldering. Reset harness also works great. For anyone with issues, or just a game they don't want to have issues, get this when he's got it fully available. Great product.

    #81 4 years ago

    Maybe add some text on the board that says something like "The MPU board's edge must be on this side of the adapter" or "This side of the adapter must be at the MPU board's edge".

    #82 4 years ago
    Quoted from shimoda:

    As a follow up, this thing rocks. Replaces a problem for all these games without requiring any desoldering/soldering. Reset harness also works great. For anyone with issues, or just a game they don't want to have issues, get this when he's got it fully available. Great product.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    I think people will find this board serves a few functions -- you gain the power/reset leds and a nicer way to connect/disconnect the RESET board from the circuit. It can be used as a quick diagnostic tool if you *think* you're having daughterboard issues, or of course it could be used for its intended purpose of a no-solder plug-and-play fix to an MPU with daughterboard issues. There's also the possibility of using it along with Marco's Sys80 test eprom, with a few small modifications or resistor/led "probe" connected to the right places on the MPU.. you would know that the connections for the ROM are good (since the PIGGYDEUX is plugging directly into the TC1 socket). So even if your issue wasn't daughterboard related you'd still have somewhere to take things.

    #83 4 years ago

    Have any of the other beta testers had a chance to try the board? Kind of interested in hearing if it immediately fixed things for anyone else that was having issues.

    #84 4 years ago

    I will let you know tomorrow. At work. I believe the harness came today. I will hopefully report back then.

    #85 4 years ago

    Harness and piggyback replacement board in. Look at that. No reset issue. Will report back if I have any other reset problems. I don't think I will have any issues.

    1460754757821-2056915823_(resized).jpg

    #86 4 years ago

    I have the Piggy Deux ready to install but I won't be able to try and break it and report back until this Sunday.

    Steve

    #87 4 years ago

    My boards for my Hollywood Heat are at ChrisHiblers for repair so not sure if I will need one of these unless he says so.

    #88 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinDescabarian:

    Harness and piggyback replacement board in. Look at that. No reset issue. Will report back if I have any other reset problems. I don't think I will have any issues.

    Nice to see that it works fine with the Swemmer Board. More leds!

    #89 4 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    Nice to see that it works fine with the Swemmer Board. More leds!

    Nice, but I don't know what that proved really.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #90 4 years ago

    Working in a Big House.
    I tested with the daughter card completely removed. Worked fine.
    Tested again with daughter card installed. Still worked.
    Nice!
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    image_(resized).jpeg

    #91 4 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    Nice, but I don't know what that proved really.

    Seemed like he must have had an issue with the harness or small dip board that normally plugs into the TC1 socket & is just using the PIGGYDEUX / new harness for the connections instead. If the machine was resetting with the old board then the IRQ signal must have had a flaky connection.

    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    Working in a Big House.
    I tested with the daughter card completely removed. Worked fine.
    Tested again with daughter card installed. Still worked.
    Nice!

    Great to hear!

    #92 4 years ago
    Quoted from davkonw:

    Got A Raven just waiting to try it out in . I have redone most of the machine but I haven't redone the chip on the board because i would like to try this out first.

    Got the board in for Beta testing and doing it now.
    Here are the links for Youtube showing it's progress.

    I know i'm calling it the wrong name but it's a good showing !
    Now 1 more step and that is the reset board.

    #93 4 years ago
    Quoted from davkonw:

    I know i'm calling it the wrong name but it's a good showing !
    Now 1 more step and that is the reset board.

    Cool! Thanks for taking the videos, great idea to show the issue & how the add-on board fixes it!

    #94 4 years ago

    I've been running the Piggydeux board for about a week now and I'm happy to report it's running PERFECTLY! No random lock ups. No resets if you bump the game too hard. I can leave the game in attract mode for hours and it's still running when I come back. I'm very happy with this product and highly recommend it.

    #95 4 years ago
    Quoted from dothedoo:

    I've been running the Piggydeux board for about a week now and I'm happy to report it's running PERFECTLY! No random lock ups. No resets if you bump the game too hard. I can leave the game in attract mode for hours and it's still running when I come back. I'm very happy with this product and highly recommend it.

    Awesome!

    Really glad to hear that it's seemed to have helped a few people that had actual daughter board issues!

    #96 4 years ago

    I've ordered a reel of 680ohm resistors for the leds to tone them down a bit. 5000x resistors should last quite a while

    So far from what I've heard/seen, things are looking pretty good on these. As long as it stays that way over the next few weeks, I'll start making these boards officially available via my website.

    Thanks to all the beta testers for the reports of things so far!

    #97 4 years ago

    Just checking in on this thread. I've been testing the PiggyDeux in my Bounty Hunter for a week now. Granted, my game had no issues prior to trying out this board so there was nothing for me to do but plug my game ROM into it and then plug it into the TC1 socket. I do have to say that this board is a good solution for those that are having issues with the daughter board in any System 80B game, especially since you can leave the old daughter card where it is and not have to mess with it anymore. I can't seem to find anything that stands out as a bad feature for a simple solution such as this. A++ Good job Wayne.

    Steve
    System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure

    WP_005619_(resized).jpg

    2 weeks later
    #99 4 years ago

    These still going strong?

    Haven't had time to get any more made up with preparing for Pinfest, but should be back on my radar soon.

    #100 4 years ago

    I haven't had any issues so mine is staying in game. Did have a 5 Mill point ball one on Genesis, maybe it's the board!

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