(Topic ID: 67256)

alright...issues with my TZ purchase... rookie mistake. Need solid advice

By 27dnast

10 years ago


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#1 10 years ago

Okay... I got screwed - not totally screwed, alright, I didn't screwed, but I got in a lot deeper than I wanted to be on a new machine. I bought a TZ... met the seller in York in the pouring rain for the switch. Didn't turn the game on. <<<---- Yup. Let's just ignore this. Believe me, I know... I know... but I need to move on from this.

Cosmetically the playfield is awesome. Rest of the game/cab looks great too. I was told there was a clock error, but that the clock worked. What I discovered once I got it home is that the clock housing is broken and has been jerry-rigged to hold itself up. That was not disclosed, I didn't notice it. I guess I should have. Everything else on the topside looks good.

The seller said the game was good for a restore and that there was a switch error, BUT that he had played it the night before and the game was totally playable without a shop-job (the only thing he noticed was an upper playfield opto wasn't working). We had talked on the phone... exchanged photos... everything seemed to be legit. Seeing the game in person lined-up with everything else.

Alright. Moving on from that. Perhaps something broke loose in transit and is causing problems... I don't know. I really don't want to point fingers... just want to dig into the community and get some help and move forward.

The game turns on and boots. Most playfield lights work. That's all good.

But, an error message pops up:

Check fuses F115 and F116, J112 and opto 12v supply

Going into the test menu, I get a "Clock Is Broken" message.

A game will not start. No balls are passed through the trough... they don't register.

Solenoids work in the tests, but pretty much all of the switches on the playfield aren't registering.

The wires to the leaf switch for a solenoid right under the camera are cut/missing and I have no idea where they should be going.

I started looking at fuses and the first one I looked at F115 (should be a .75A 250V FB) is a 8A 250V SB. I stopped there

I was just fooling around with the game... the only thing that registers in the switch edge test is the start button (which registers, but also registers the plum-bob).

I pretty much stopped there. This is a tad overwhelming. So, the question is: What do I do? I'm only here looking for options to move forward and get this bad-boy cooking! So, do I dig into the help of the pinside community and make the fixes on my own? Or should I find a repair guy in the area and suck-it-up and drop the machine off and let him fix it?

I'd rather have a go at it on my own, but I'm a little intimidated. I would need some hand holding...

#2 10 years ago

Common error message/problem, so don't freak.

Search the forum here or google for the error message, you'll see tons of threads and recommended fixes. Probably a bad bridge rectifier or U20 is blown. If U20 is blown you might have a short somewhere you'll need to track down.

Good luck. If that one fuse is indeed over fused that high, I'd also check them all for proper values just to feel safe.

Are the fuses in question really blown?

#3 10 years ago

nice cab, and nice playfield the most important part. everything else is fixable. take it one issue at a time. no biggie

#4 10 years ago

Which issue do I start with? The glaring error message?

#5 10 years ago

You need to either know your way around a multimeter or be willing to learn in order to figure this out. Any experience?

#6 10 years ago

Yeah, I have used a multimeter... might need a little hand holding, but I've got a DMM

#7 10 years ago

pinwiki.....check fuses 114 115. several threads on here already and ltg will give you the link, haha, he is good that way! people will tell you its BR1 or BR2 or one or 2 of the caps but pinwiki will tell you what to do first. clock is most likely the board and your choice will be a rottendog or the german guys. sorry no link but many on here.

#8 10 years ago

First off, are the fuses in question really blown?

If so, Which one?

Which led's are dark on the driver board?

Take a YouTube lesson or google " how to test a bridge rectifier". Locate BR1 on the driver board and test it to see if it's good. It could be shorted closed, in which case no power will be delivered to your fuse (and the fuse wouldn't be blown). Or could be shorted open, allowing too much power to pass thereby blowing the fuse. Very common problem.

None of your switches, etc will work until you get good power passing thru those fuses, so I'd consider this the first step.

#9 10 years ago

Ok, thx. I'll start taking a peek tomorrow

#10 10 years ago

Yeah I wouldn't freak out too much. You'll get it all worked out. Plenty of awesome people here to help out for free.

=)

#11 10 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

I pretty much stopped there. This is a tad overwhelming. So, the question is: What do I do? I'm only here looking for options to move forward and get this bad-boy cooking! So, do I dig into the help of the pinside community and make the fixes on my own? Or should I find a repair guy in the area and suck-it-up and drop the machine off and let him fix it?
I'd rather have a go at it on my own, but I'm a little intimidated. I would need some hand holding...

Contact Jerry Clause:

Gameroom Service
54230 Bradshaw
New Baltimore, MI 48047

[email protected]

Seriously, he is THE MAN and will help you get your game fixed right up.

#12 10 years ago
Quoted from Fatsquatch:

Contact Jerry Clause:
Gameroom Service
54230 Bradshaw
New Baltimore, MI 48047
[email protected]
Seriously, he is THE MAN and will help you get your game fixed right up.

Thanks for the contact, I've used Chris Hibler for board work and he was awesome as well (hoping he'll chime in here too! ). Always good to have more names, tho.

Thx

#13 10 years ago
Quoted from yoshootme:

pinwiki.....check fuses 114 115. several threads on here already and ltg will give you the link, haha, he is good that way! people will tell you its BR1 or BR2 or one or 2 of the caps but pinwiki will tell you what to do first.

This is excellent advice. Hit pinwiki's wpc page and go to the section on check fuses 114 and 115. It's very detailed and should help you pinpoint the issue

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Thanks for the contact, but I kind of feel like paying someone else to do this isn't the way I want to go first... know what I mean?

I get that, and typically encourage such, but it sounds to me like you have some boards in need of going over, and that's often too high of a mountain to climb for those who aren't well-versed in board repair.

I had similar problems with my Shadow three days after I brought it home, and spent a good month or so beating my head against the wall trying to fix it. Jerry was spot-on with a diagnosis through e-mail, so I sent him my boards, and in a little over a week they were repaired (as well as upgraded) and sent back for a price that simply could not be argued with in any way.

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Thanks for the contact, I've used Chris Hibler for board work and he was awesome as well (hoping he'll chime in here too! ). Always good to have more names, tho.
Thx

Hi Todd,

Hey hey...thanks for your kind words.
TZ is a bit of a beast, but as has been stated many times before, break the problems down into smaller pieces. Divide and conquer.

As others have noted, our Wiki article will step you through problem diagnosis and resolution better than we can write here. Here is the link...
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Check_fuses_F114_and_F115_message

Keep us posted.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#16 10 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Hi Todd,
Hey hey...thanks for your kind words.
TZ is a bit of a beast, but as has been stated many times before, break the problems down into smaller pieces. Divide and conquer.
As others have noted, our Wiki article will step you through problem diagnosis and resolution better than we can write here. Here is the link...
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Check_fuses_F114_and_F115_message
Keep us posted.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

Hey Chris! Thanks for chiming in...
I'm guessing I should attack the error first...yes?

#17 10 years ago

This happened to my Addams Family not to long ago. Here is a link to the thread with photos in case yours turns out to be similar. Chris helped me step by step till the soldering got over my head, then he did it for me.
Hope this helps some.
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/addams-family-down-for-the-count#post-429507

#18 10 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Hey Chris! Thanks for chiming in...
I'm guessing I should attack the error first...yes?

Yup...the Check Fuses error is the first order of business.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#19 10 years ago

This is machine is totally fixable. Sounds like it's suffering from well-known problems.

Like what others have said, break things down into smaller problems and work slowly. Start with diagnosing board/fuse issues. Don't worry about the wiring under the playfield yet. Staring at it right now will just make the task feel impossible, despite the fact that the wiring is generally well-documented online. Download the OCR'ed manual for TZ off of the ipdb website if you haven't already.

#20 10 years ago

Thanks JoJo. I'm feeling more confident. Ready to get this sucker fired up!

#21 10 years ago

Nobody really came out and said this, but I may have missed it...

BEFORE you turn the game on again, check and replace all the fuses throughout the entire game with the correct values. Find out what fuses blow after replacing with correct values, and either get a bunch of those, or get some circuit breakers, because you will likely blow a few before you get the problem(s) corrected.

#22 10 years ago

I know this may sound a little elementary, but have you opened up the backbox to make sure all your ribbon cables and IDC connectors are connected? When I was doing my testing for the U20 chip's condition, I pulled J207 and J209 and upon bootup, got most of your same errors. I'd go through and double check and reseat all the connectors. Then start to tackle things one by one. Start simple. You'll get there!

1 week later
#23 10 years ago

Just a quick update... the TZ has taken a passenger seat while I wade through a ton of obligations. But, the seller reached out and has been extremely gracious. He offered to replace the power board --- how nice is that? Turns out there was a small connection issue and the major error is gone... no need to replace the board. Must have happened in transit and wasn't visible to the eye. Speaks volumes about thinking logically and taking time to check every connection.

There are some other correctable issues with the game... I'm sure. I'm hoping to start tackling them next week.

#24 10 years ago

Good to hear the major issue is gone. here is my thread regarding the message you were getting:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tz-check-fuses-f115-and-f116-j112-and-opto-12v-supply

#25 10 years ago

The "clock is broken" message is quite common and does not affect gameplay at all. If the clock housing is actually broken as you stated, I would suggest getting the blue replacement housing as they just look awesome. The Rottendog replacement clock board is less than $100 and not too difficult to swap, but it is a little time consuming and tedious to remove, teardown, and put the clock back together.

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