Oh yeah! Brings back good and bad memories of Woz arguments over the last 4 years.

Yeah, it would "seem" that way to people like you I guess. You know, the overly sensitive fanboys who belong to the Church of JJP and can't accept the slightest of criticism.

That IS a dumb argument. You should rage-quit this thread! LOL! It is unexplainable that a boat anchor like IJ4 holds the value. Value doesn't always necessarily equate to something being a good game, but sometimes it can.

My wife and I were just playing WOZ the other night and commented on how fun and frustrating it is. The pitch on our game is high, pop bumpers and slings are strong and the game plays wicked fast. It kicks us in the butt and yet we can't stop hitting the start button.

I like that there is so much to do. Sometimes it's fun and satisfying to just concentrate on one thing, like starting all the crystal ball modes, Munchkin modes, or getting to Haunted Multiball.

Other times I like to try and stack as much as possible. Like getting Rescue Multiball lined up with Emerald City Multiball and a Crystal ball mode or a Haunted mode running or ready to go. Then trying to get everything started and keep balls going on the Munchkin and Castle playfields to increase the playfield multipliers.

Oh, the dreams of greatness......only to insta-drain and end everything. Arrgghh! Or, get everything going and then accidentally start the Weak Flippers Crystal Ball mode....Dohh!

I think Keith has got the risk versus reward dialed in just right.

I like the way the right orbit and ramp shots feel but to me, most of the shot satisfaction comes from the sound, graphics, light shows and rewards that accompany the shots. I would also say that any of the shots made (and there are a lot of them) when you really need them are very satisfying.

For what it's worth. I've always been split on my feelings for WOZ. I really dont like the theme.

But, I can fully appreciate what JJ did to produce the game, and some of the innovations put into WOZ.

The first 5 times playing the game, I left it thinking "what's the big deal..its boring". Since then I have been able to play it a few more times; and I have to admit it is growing on me. Each time I play it, I seem to enjoy it a bit more.

At this rate, I may move to really liking the game...

Waterorld price holding about a third (or less) of what it sold new WOZ is holding close to new, and that's with them still in production.

I don't expect everyone to like the game, but those who do seem to like it a lot, and few owners have sold. Eventually JJP will saturate the market and used prices will drop... question is when?

It's a good point. With WOZ games apparently rolling off the line at the speed of three per week, how exactly do you determine what the "used" price is? There's not much of a used market at this time considering they are still being made. So who is gonna buy an old one for a slight discount when they can still buy a brand spanking new one whenever JJP gets around to building it?

Oh those elusive green and orange flickers...

Well, I think the new ones are 9 grand now... the red ones that is. Are they still making standards at 8K? There's three ECLEs in the 7s for sale on pinside, so figure 7 or a little less is current used? The percentage of pinheads in the market for 7K games is small, probably why so few sales.

Speaking of WOZ production is the factory still running at full production speed with the full line or are they just running with a skeleton crew building a handful of games a week? Ever since the last of the pre-orders went out it seems like things have died down around here anyways as far as people receiving new games from the factory.

I think it's more about the sellers than it is about the buyers.

If most owners didn't like the game you would see a lot more selling them for whatever they could get and moving on. The new machines being manufactured just keep the prices from going up.

We see it all the time. Hulks selling for 7k+ new dropping to low 5k's HUO. X-Men LE's dropping to below 5k. The fact is that if a game is not well regarded or rare it will drop in price on the used market. Sometimes rareness is not even enough to prop up a price.

A few people predicted a flood of used WOZs on the market once all 1000LEs were delivered. Their implication was that the game would be so crappy that people would not keep them. So far, this hasn't happened. Don't forget, the majority of WOZ LE owners got the game for $6500 so I would expect dissatisfied owners to be willing to sell for $6500 or less.

Welcome to sarcasm 101

EDIT: I removed this post after having dinner and being bothered (and embarrassed) by my snarky tone. That kind of shit is beneath me and I apologize to RobT. (Although he quoted me, so I'll leave it up to him to remove the quote...his call!). Sorry. I'd rather be friends with people around here than argue about stupid shit and opinions...which are just opinions and shouldn't be argued about at all! My bad.

You are the one who put words in my mouth by saying that I hate WOZ.

That's the source of my responses to you. So if you can accuse me of things that aren't accurate, why can't I do the same to you?

This is literally why I love this hobby! So many diverse opinions, you love what you love, dislike what you dislike and get to argue about it.

As much as I love Woz, I haven't turned it on for 3 months or so. I just can't stop playing TWD and my WH2O right now with a little SM mixed in. Why? No idea.

But I'm looking at it right now and it will get some action real soon again along with RS and Ac/dc. I've put Lotr LE, WPT and NBAFB on the bench for right now. Only because they are in the game room upstairs and the beer is in the fridge in the garage man cave.

Btw, I got my Woz for $6500 and I venture to guess that when TH rolls out and Lawlor is announced you'll see a lot more Woz pins for sale, along with everything else.

My theory, there is never a right or wrong answer, just a bunch of BS in the middle and on both sides

Sorry Pimp, but TWD LE is the best pin eva!

I'll give you a hint,

F you Jimmy Mac

Where you been, hiding out with Doc?

Can I send my Woz to you for a major restore?

LOL...at least until Hobbit comes out (or Stern's next).

Lawlor for sure and Stern is on a roll, but I might be holed up playing this mofo for a few more years and forget about the rest

Rob doesn't hate WOZ...... he hates people who like WOZ!

True Dat Billy So does Jimmy Mac but its ok, they are cool dudes

Then again, Rob bought a Mustang LE

Damn Mustang LE....the most under appreciated stern in a long time? Rob you even had the nads to put up and display in collection! Very impressive

gotts to say, I too really enjoy all the Boyzzzz around here arguing and fighting on whats good and whats not. How long you have to own it to think its good and most of all....... by god do not say anything negative about WOZ to the WOZ fanboys

I have owned many games, from 70s EMs to NIB games of today. WOZ is in a league of its own, and has been and continues to be an outstanding achievement, regardless of whatever idiom someone thinks is cute at the moment.... "Fan Boy" pppphhhhht.

I think it's jolly good fun

How does this thread not have a poll?

New Jersey stepping up and doing the right thing.

Bill kids because he cares!

I know far too many people who I respect that own and love WOZ to hate anyone who likes it! It's the zealots I could do without.

We should be way beyond any zealotry with Woz after 4 yrs Bobby T.

It's been a memorable journey and time to stick a fork in this bitch and move on

Or not, probably good shit to talk about as long as pins are made. Remember when

Yes we should! Too bad we aren't. But we have got a lot closer! You and Panzer were former "fanboys", but you both actually post reasonable shit now!

Hell no, don't put me in the Panzer league!

Maybe in the early years I was the ringleader but I'm not Panzer crazy

It's a great pin but I have fun with many others now.

WOZ IS THE BEST GAME EVER!!! 20 magnets, 5 mini playfields, 2 shaker motors...ok I'm done, lol.

I have tried to calm down this year about WOZ, haha. Sadly tonight I decapitated Oz on my topper while lifting the game up. The topper hit a beam in my basement ceiling and a section broke off... I just looked at the broken topper for a few seconds and thought "I can't believe I just did that". Time to contact JJP tomorrow and hope they have extra ECLE toppers in stock.

Sorry about the topper Panzer. WOZ is just pure excitement and you gotta be careful

What about the toys the toys the toys the toys?

You must be mellowing with age, no mention of toys in this whole thread! Very disappointing.

rd.

Hmmm, both are wide bodies, both have super deep rule sets, both are extremely stop & go, both are true "shooters" Games (IMHO) and both Games play a little slower (ball speed wise) like most Wide Body Pins (STTNG being the exception for a WB Pin).

I don't see how they couldn't or shouldn't be compared.

We own both - neither are leaving the collection any time soon.

Which Game is ALWAYS being played at our Pin Parties while some others aren't out of our 26-28 Pins - WOZ-ECLE

At our last Party I will say it was pretty much a tie between WOZ-ECLE and TWD-LE for being constantly played.

My 2 ¢

Get back to work on your Gottliebs, rotordave!

Greg

To each his own. I live for that shit.

I couldn't tell...

And arguing on a forum isn't worth the elevated BP numbers at the doctor's office. I'd rather get stressed over something that matters.

I fixed them all.

Thanks to your manuals and literature. Thanks again for sending me that.

rd.

I don't get worked up when I argue. Most of the time i'm making myself laugh anyway. If anything it lowers my blood pressure, which is low to begin with.

Sorry to hear that. I hate it when I make stupid mistakes like that. But shit happens and we move on.
Maybe you could turn it into a positive thing and get a better topper? Maybe you could get the 75th topper instead to replace it? I think that one looks better anyway. Or maybe there is a decent alternative?

Your guests prefer two of your worst games, apparently.

You need better guests.

since he doesn't list his collection, i'll just assume these are the only 2 games he has. hence the preference.

Since we are being honest...no, WOZ is not very fun to play.

I think I have a decent line-up and Woz, hands down, is the most popular. Guess I should get some better guests too.

WOZ is a beautiful game, that has a few problems.

-It is rather stop/start, with lots of video clips/animations and relatively little ball flow (at least in the setups I've played). The animations are incredible the first few times, then you get bored.
-It is very difficult for new players to figure out what they are supposed to do. It's lighting schematic is so different from B/W and Stern games, that simply understanding where to shoot can be tough. "Shoot the flashing light" doesn't really work here.
-"There's No Place Like Home" is nearly impossible. Though it's a bonus ball-save that SHOULD be tough, so I'll let 'em have that.
-The LED lighting can be blinding, making it very difficult to track the ball.

That being said, it's got some things going for it:
-Somebody is trying something new! Hopefully will breathe life into the whole industry when it comes to innovation.
-Build quality and commitment to jamming the system with "cool stuff" is second to none, especially as Pro-level Stern games become increasingly sparse.
-Theme integration is pretty top-notch. And the theme is a classic.

My guests seem to play STLE and ACDC premium the most by far, followed by C37 and Volley. WOZ gets played about as much as Haunted House or some of the less popular EMs.

It might be 9000 fun but it's not 12k fun like our cost here in Oz

For me, yes. WoZ is fun and well worth the $.

It is in a league of its own and represents the next generation of pinball technology. But even aside from the technology, it is just plain fun. But you need to enjoy stop and go play. I agree that there is very little flow. Even though I am usually a fan of flow games, the rules really make this game great for me.

I talked to Lloyd and he recommended I contact Jen at JJP. She was able to help me out with ordering a new ECLE topper for my game. Price was very fair too. I stuck with the ECLE topper to match my game. The 75th topper certainly looks nice. Great customer service as always!

I may try to glue the broken topper back together and put it on my desk at work, haha.

+1 for super fun.
I love my WOZ.