Its a great game, you can always speed it up by cranking the pitch and waxing the playfield. Mine plays pretty fast (not as fast as AC/DC, but still fast) Unless you are an amazing player its unlikely that you will ever finish all of the modes in this game, and that is a good thing. JJ put all they had into this game and it really shows, I seriously doubt any follow up game will have this level of detail. They spent 3ish years perfecting WOZ and because of the relative high pre-order price of $6500 JJ filled this game with features and toys.

WOZ is the only true keeper in my collection, while I dont plan on selling RFM/SWE1, MMR (when it arrives) or AC/DC...I know that WOZ would be the last to leave

Fair enough. But in my house, it sits next to LOTR, Congo, IJ, and Funhouse...and it gets played the most. It has more of a universal appeal, I think, and people like the blinky lights.

not by me

Nope, not negative at all. I see I was clearly mistaken and misinterpreted your positive comment.

You made my point for me, though.

Almost anyone can find a combination of games for 9k that is more fun than owning a single WOZ.

Not that fun to me. I've got about 75 games on a WOZ at various shows. I don't hate it, but I don't love it, either. It's a "meh" game to me. As has been said before, I definitely don't find it $7500 fun. I don't like the flow or the theme very much. However, it does have the bling appeal. LCD screen, LEDs, upper PF and voiceovers will draw the attention of many casual players or non-pinheads.

It is rare that I agree with Levi, but this is so true. The first couple of times I saw Toto and SOTR it was fun. After one or two games it became incredibly stupid. One outlane mode? Maybe, but two is overkill and annoying as hell. I have a friend (with ~80 pins) who absolutely hates WOZ, so I always torture him by challenging him to a game on WOZ when he comes over. He reluctantly does play after bitching a bunch, but absolutely will not play the outlane modes. He simply walks away and lets the ball go.

If I was stuck on a desert island with only WOZ, I would cut the wires to one of the switches in each outlane so neither mode could ever start. How much more fun would this game be if you could somehow nudge the balls out like IJ, Centaur, Paragon and others?

The other 800 pound gorilla in this room is the terrible playfield design and layout. Ugh. Too bad Nordman did not design this game or TH for that matter. Oh well, as others has said the software design by Keith is a masterpiece no doubt and makes up for some of the deficiencies in the playfield design as well as the terrible GI and lack of flashers.

I'm just not a fan of the theme or LCD screen. It is beautiful though.

Okay. We don't have many "Causal" players in our area, and those that are, don't show up anyplace that has a WOZ. I'm not a route operator, so I don't really give too much of a hoot about their opinion of the game. From a tournament and just "man, I want to play that pin" feeling, Woz is somewhere in the high-middle for me. At the end of the day, I'd still rather play Creech/Scared Stiff/Monster Bash/Tron for tournaments, and if I have a half hour to blow, up until recently, it would've gone on a Spiderman trying to get to Superhero, but since I've at least done that now....I dunno..probably back to trying to get End of the Line on Metallica. :p

WOZ is fun. The theme isn't great for me, but the overall light and sound show is spectacular.
But i digress... What makes it the most fun for me is that it not only has a wide variety of plot objectives of varying skill level (along with a plethora of mini-wizard modes), but it also has seemingly endless combinations of progress/scoring strategies for use in both high-score approach as well as match play.

This gets to a marginal utility question. There is no rational answer to that because the incremental cost is always higher for any incremental improvement.

Put another way, is a single Mercedes S-class is as much as fun as a Porsche and a Lexus sitting side by side? Using a pinball analogy, is a Lord of the Rings more fun than a Shadow and Judge Dredd sitting side by side?

I suspect the answer to both is "no", but that doesn't mean no one should buy a Lord or the Rings or a Mercedes S-class.

I think it's a fun game mostly for the sake of being different and having great software. After so many years of games with similar fan layouts, bash toys and Italian bottom layouts WOZ really feels like a breath of fresh air with its widebody cabinet, extensive light show and LCD display, and non-traditional layout. With that being said the game is far from perfect. My biggest gripe is the layout itself. I don't think either upper playfield is very satisfying to play and the blind feed to the worthless upper right flipper just flat out sucks! I think this is the fault of the game's designer. Someone like Pat Lawlor would never design a game where an upper flipper didn't have specific purposeful shot. In a game like TZ or TAF those upper flippers are crucial for nailing big jackpot shots and hitting other shots that you can't make with the lower flippers. On WOZ it just feels like the upper playfields and upper right playfields were just kind of thrown in for the sake of adding more stuff to the game. To me it's the software and uniqueness that makes it a good game.

I was just going to comment on the route aspect. Of course it has nothing to do with home buyers. They don't have to consider that angle. But Jack has always had it in the back ( or front ) of his mind.

I think it was genius to go with WOZ theme for the first game. And the hobbit is a great choice for the second game. I think most home owners will prefer the hobbit theme and plenty of them will prefer the flow of the game. I can't see the lack of a couple of toys hurting sales. I did think the hobbit would be superior on location but pindemption looks a great fit with WOZ.

I hammer the upper flipper for the skillshot, the witch, Winkie guard, & collecting haunted mode. It also helps allot when cradeling balls on the right side when a ball rolls of it and is playable with the left flipper

wait you can actually tell when the lights are off? The GI is so dim I thought they were off all the time.

The entire playfield goes dark. There are no insert lights in that mode. It's actually really cool. The crystal ball modes are all well designed and very fun to play.

Lights out
Weak flippers
No hold flippers
all lights

I don't think you're going to convince anyone that the UR Flipper is well implemented in WOZ. And you can't see or hear when the ball is coming around either. I thought maybe the magnet above it would make it more useful but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'm having a hard time thinking of another game that has an Upper flipper that is as bad as WOZ's is? Can anyone name one?

Yep, nothing better than a Skittles Multiball. Taste the RAINBOW!

I agree, this flipper took a while to get used to, but I use it A LOT now that I know the timing of it coming down. Its useful for the witch shots, especially when cradling the ball/s during fire ball frenzy and such. The skill shots are sick too, so fun. The witch is the easiest of the 4 and crystal ball being the hardest. I have done them ALL at this point (about 350 games in). I dont understand the hate for it.

This mode will trip you out...the whole playfield looks like its rising and falling like the waves of the ocean, its pretty nuts.

I love WOZ. It took me a good 50 games to get in a rythym with it, and I had to move my posts in to get some more action, but Its the most played game in my collection, and its the first machine I go to in the line to see how close I can get to SWOTRB wizard mode. Ive melted the witch only once so far, but man was it satisfying.

Spend some more time with it in your home, NOT on route. If you dont like it then...I dunno whats wrong with you. IT IS FUN.

That joke would have been funny if this was 2013. They solved that problem, I thought. (Disclaimer: I have the Pinball Bulbs GI mod, so you can see mine from satellites.)

Yes. The Hobbit.

I have probably 200+ games on WOZ and its my favorite game besides LOTR.

This is a stupid and asinine statement. WOZ owners own the game because they enjoy it, so of course they're going to say it's fun. Why own a game you don't enjoy? Their opinion is perfectly valid... actually more valid than most since they have the most experience with the game. John, who possesses the game but neither owns nor likes it - that is certainly reasonable as well.

If a non-owner says they hate the game, I can accept that. Why is the reverse so hard for the WOZ haters to acknowledge?

Ok... Time for a little unvarnished truth.

WOZ is a totally polarizing pin. People LOVE it, and people LOVE to hate it.

The reality is that many of the haters formed their opinion on early code. At that time the machine was breathtakingly beautiful... And made little to no sense. It was more like a tech demo for the colour changing LEDs. It was nearly impossible to tell what was happening. I was very disappointed. I wanted to love it, but it was slow, and clunky, and I never knew what I was supposed to be doing.

Then a MASSIVE code update changed everything. The game became everything it promised to be.

It is a beautiful, complex, multilayered experience. The way the machine transforms in the Destroy the Witch mode is stunning.

That said, the machine may be TOO deep for most people. Add to that, there is almost zero flow to the game. There sort of isn't even a combo shot to be had. It's VERY stop and start gameplay. It is a unique beast.

So, what am I trying to say??

WOZ is an absolutely fantastic pin. A masterpiece by ANY measure, but it has a certain vibe that many won't enjoy. Weather or not you relate to the theme isn't really even an issue, as its implemented beautifully. I can't stand Metallica, but it's my fav pin.

WOZ is amazing to bring newbies in to pinball. It's screen, it's lights and sounds, it's familiar theme are all perfect attractors.

For the advanced player, I think it's a pin that requires serious time to really appreciate what's going on. It takes you a while to understand how to play the machine. Where to find the info you need. How to stack modes etc. There is a TON of complexity (maybe too much!)

Is it fun? Absolutely. Is it for everybody? Absolutely not. That said, no pin is for everybody... That's why we need lots!!

I just mentioned what I use the ur flipper for. I was never a fan of the ur flipper in tspp but maybe because it wasnt a ramp shot?

I thought the same, but it's easy enough to fix:

Set the initial TNPLH timer pretty low, like 15-20 seconds. Set the first RAINBOW stage to extra easy, the rest of the stages factory, then set the overall mode to add a couple seconds to the clock each time you achieve a goal (yes, all this is in the game.. there's an entire page of settings just for TNPLH. Take lessons from this, Stern!).

Now, you've changed TNPLH into a proper hurryup mode. You can complete the RAINBOW bank in only 2 hits if you clobber it good on unlit letters - doing this before hardly any time runs off is critical to the rest. Now you basically have 5 hurryups, with each successful shot giving you a few more seconds on the clock. Twiddle with the timer numbers to get an appropriate difficulty level for yourself. This changes the entire vibe of the mode and makes it much more fun and challenging.

The UR flipper on TSPP is great! You've got the Kwik-e mart Loop and targets, Comic book guy, and also have the Treehouse ramp which is both difficult and satisfying to hit. The upper playfield on TSPP is also vastly superior to either of WOZ's upper playfields. I'm usually not a big fan of Balcer's layouts but TSPP is an exception as I think it's great. WOZ shares some similarities but I think TSPP just flows better and feels like every shot has more purpose and is better set-up.

Fun?....YES.....tough to get through?.......YES....Shot makers dream/ nightmare?......YES.......one of my favorites (by far)?.........YES

Yes WOZ is fun. I play mine all the time and I rarely play the others. It could be better and yes the ball save modes are a pain but you can turn them off. The fact that the paint can just chip off the PF is a reason I wouldn't buy one however. I get that it has happened to only a few but who is to say that it couldn't happen to more and Jack aint gonna give out PFs to everyone.

We are having a Hobbit Release Party on this Sat 2/21 in Harrisburg, PA - We will have a Hobbit AND WOZ there and we also have WOZ Standards and WOZ Ruby Red 75th Anniversary games IN STOCK. Delivery of WOZ to party possible...

Or if you'd just like to attend the party - shoot us an email at [email protected]

Info here...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinballstar-hobbit-and-mmr-release-party-sat-221

Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements
570-357-0042

It's the one pin in my collection that people who have no interest in pinball at all otherwise will play (and enjoy).

First off i think it is a blast to play. When I have non pinheads around they are always interested in it and it tends to generate a lot of interest/play. Pinheads response is more mixed. The two things that people seem to struggle with are the theme (that is not that big though) and then understanding the rules. It does take some time to understand but you can see that once people get the rules and get how important stacking is it clicks. It is still a tough game though when you are new to it. I struggled at first with it but have gotten pretty good at it now, I can get to battle the witch fairly consistently now on 3 ball. I am still not good at hitting targets during multiball though.

What are you supposed to do when you get fireball frenzy? I have yet to figure it out. I assumed you kept banging at the witch but I never get it.

Shoot for the blue targets to pour water on the witch. Yellow targets are her throwing fireballs at you.

Cut the outlane switches?!? It's WOZ. One of, if not the most configurable games on the planet. No need to cut anything. If you don't like TOTO, go into settings and shut it off. Or make it wicked hard. Don't like TNPLH? Shut it off, or make it ultra hard to get, or shut off the State Fair pop bumper. There are no less than 10 different settings for TNPLH, plus the pop.

I understand you won't ever like the game again, but complaining about things that are easy to change shouldn't really factor into that. Not liking the playfield won't change of course, but the outlane games can be removed any time you want.

image.jpg

I love my WOZLE. It's by far the best NIB I have ever bought out of 4 and it's not going anywhere.
Funny thing is, my fiance is not a big fan of it and I love it for the technology incorporated in it. In fact, I totally forgot that the house sprung open to reveal the witches feet. I swear I don't think I have ever gotten the game to do that. I did the adjustment in the drop down menus to see it happen!

LOL

It's not about operator adjustments.

That game has gigantic outlanes to accomodate the stupid ballsave modes. Altering the software to cut these tedious modes out of the game or make them easier...it doesn't address the main problem with this game which as others have mentioned is a terrible layout.

There's no flow. You've got a upper right flipper that reminds me of 70s games like Mars Trek where the best thing to do with it is NOT use it - as there's no safe shot from it nor anything else you can't hit with the lower flippers. You've got crap hiding the ball much of the time, Popeye-style, and a way too many unsafe shots for such a huge game with so many targets spread across the playfield.

So yeah I hate the game...but at least I think I have some good reasons for it. It's not just knee-jerk bigotry. Every time I play this damn thing I can't help but wonder "who the hell designed this game? It couldn't possibly be someone who enjoys playing modern pinball, is it?"

It feels like a committee designed it, much like overdone but half-baked hollywood movies with 6 scriptwriters. They threw everything but the kitchen sink into this game - a reaction to stripped down Stern fare I guess - but in this case the sum is much less than the parts.

I can understand why people are wowed with this game but it's just a massive oddity to me. Like others have said it's a real love it or hate it game, maybe more than anything else in recent memory?

You call it a release party yet all you have is a prototype and you charge $25 fee to enter

I am worried about that third flipper. Not because I don't think it can be made useful in code (I am sure Keith will do fine with that). But rather the positioning compared to the ramps. I am wondering what kind of damage that flipper could do by slamming into the sides of the ramps.

I'm not trying to change your mind. We all have our different preferences. But for those who care and may not know:

Both lanes have adjustable posts. The one on the left is not very well known - you have to take the screw out to see the alternate screw hole for the ball guide.

Aside from the high price, i would love to have a woz. It is a nice change of pace to my ac/dc and Metallica. I love the hidden features and multiple playfields. It's just a beautiful but fun game once you understand it.

I didn't like mine at all. Shots weren't fun to hit and I like more ramps. I only put about 100 plays on it before I sold it. With all the reliability issues I am hearing about I am glad its gone.

Well, then you and I must agree on one thing based on what you wrote above: Twilight Zone sucks.

In some ways...TZ does suck. The whole Addams and TZ code of "Shoot the ramp, shoot the hole, repeat 30 times to get to the wizard mode" is BLEH. =\

For all the crap TZ has on it, I gotta figure if it was a modern production, the rules would be VASTLY different. We need a Lyman or a Keefer on these two dogs to straigten out the rulesets lol.

Currently my favorite 'all time' pin!

Woz and Zip lines are about equal in my book.

Got to admit the top right flipper is a bit of a mystery. If you're playing low risk, then there is no good/worthwhile shot from that flipper.

Plus its difficult to get an accurate shot from that because the lane that feeds it is covered. Wish they'd use the magnet just above it more often.

Friend got a WOZLE last night.
It's a great looking pinball. ive read most of the comments here and agree it a love/hate machine. I'm already tired of the ball save games.

This pin has a lot to offer and I'm looking forward to getting deeper in to it.

If you don't like the outlane games just turn them off. If you think it drains to much move the lanes it, it doesn't look like much help but it actually helps a lot. If you still drain more then your liking or don't like the upper flipper skill shot risk put a ball save timer on. You can customize your game play a lot on WOZ.

The game is a master piece .

You only get tired of the ball save games when you lose your ball. That first time you complete TNPLH, you'll feel like you just completed a wizard mode. Sucks getting there, but awesome when you do.