To that point any outside monetary help in a company is usually not a good thing unless that investment is clearly for the purposes of growth and not survival.

it's not about worrying whether or not jack will survive. It's the poor business model he's starting to use. Preorders 2 years early before the first game is done. 20% price increase (last I looked inflation was 4%...not 20) and the wayyy over the top "Limited Edition" production numbers.

and for comparing it to sterns. It's not that jacks should be $1000's more, it's that sterns should be $1000's less. But people are still suckering to pay the stupid price structure. If 50% inflation is fine with you, more power to you. But no more NIB for me until things settle back down.

I could give a flying turd licker about having my money tied up in WOZLE, BHZA, TH and Predator because I know at the end of the day I'm going to have an awesome pin lineup in my game room.......nor do I give a rat sh*t about what anybody else thinks who doesn't own the pin or want to own the pin because of whatever nonsense you can come up with.......

Pinheads, including me, are just a bunch of "whiny little b*tches...(Burn Notice)

Nobody has to do it.

This thread looks just like very other JJP thread with the same BS brought up. Several people chime in and make some positive comments. That is followed by the expected naysayers telling us that it is not true.

I don't normally Chime in on these threads but I'm going to this time. Stern Sold 500 Avengers LE's in 3 days. As many people have said I am sure it includes distributorship commitments.. and really as it should be cause in his books(and would be Sterns) that's sold.

If WOZ works and is a great pin then I'm sure he will have no problem selling many more Hobbits.

That assumes the money was all paid at once at the beginning, though. Actually they payments were spread out over time, reducing the amount of interest that would have been earned.

_{Post edited by txstargazer3 : fixed typo}

Well the thread is about 900 THLE preorders. If there are 300 preorders I would be impressed, at 900 it's amazing. According to that Stern tour article it cost Stern $1 million to develop a pinball machine. JJP is doing something right at these numbers. Go go JJP !! More pinball is mo bettah for me. And for you even if you don't know it, whoever you are.

I will say if Stern is selling 80% of US sales to homes, and Stern has tripled sales in the last 2 years, and JJP is selling and taking preorders at this rate, something is GROWING. And it aint over here at my hacienda.

I picked up somebody else's canceled WOZ about a month ago. Yep, I know there's about a thou difference in what I will eventually pay versus what he started at. But I totally agree with your model. I'll even go further, it's my money and I will spend it on what I want.

I hate that some of these threads turn into pissing matches. I fully realize that there is still a chance that the money I put done on WOZ could evaporate. So could the 15% that my other funds have made. I guess my attitude has tempered with age in that at least I have what I have. Any more than what I need is gravy. Having two (or more) manufacturers is a good thing. I wish Jack well and along with that, I hope that Skit-B goes the course too.

With the money in a CD or Money Market and the fact that it is paid over a year plus. My guess is that it is probably less than $125 in lost interest. Somebody do the math if you want to prove me wrong. Not a big deal and you do get a discount vs a later purchase. You can also sell your spot for a profit if it sells out or get a refund.

Yea pics to go by tell me a lot. "Keith is writing the rules" doesn't. He can't overcome boring playfield designs in his rules. I love xmen as it stands. Same with avengers. But I didn't order either until a layout and feature list were shown.

Your argument assumes that the pin won't increase in value a dime over the next two years...not that it matters to me.....but for argument's sake, it seems like everybody thinks their pins are going to double in price every year

Well ok let's just assume prices go up at 3-5% a year and there you go, problem solved!

And btw....just saying what a 401k did the last two years is like saying the last time I went to Vegas I won 10k.....that doesn't take into account the other times I got my a** handed to me....

What did your 401k do in 2008? 2000? 2001? 2002?....

What - people are now complaining that there are too many LEs being made? Low LE numbers screw buyers by scaring people into laying down money in case they lose out.

Just consider them premium editions.

I'd be happier still if JJP would drop the different models altogether and just make x000 of the exact same unit.

Really....900 chumps...that would be like looking at someone's pin collection and saying "what a chump, look at some of the crappy pins this guy bought"....

or 401

I think a company has to do what they have to do. If there was say 300-400 preorders, there's not much incentive for me to put down my money because I know there are over a 1000 left. With a # approaching 1000, I was be much more likely to put down a deposit to make sure I get a crack at one.

I'm really not bashing JJP, I think they have 2 great machines and I very likely will be a buyer of The Hobbit down the road if it's comparable to WOZ quality.

The end of the day? What day would that be?

Ice, didn't you make a bet that you would have your WOZ in your hands several months back?

You are comparing sales of a pin that was ready to be shipped in a very short period of time once payment was received, vs one that is a pre-order that will take God knows how long to ship from a company that hasn't shipped it's first pin yet.

I'm saving my money for kingpin...

Not at all similar. A person with a collection actually has pins in their room. A "chump" that preorders hobbit at this stage with actually no information but the title of the theme is in a different league. I may get in on preorder also. But it will be after game details are released and I can analyze the playfield layout and features. From what I've seen of WoZ so far, it makes Twilight Zone look like a fast flowing monster. I'm not going into another of these totally blind and neither should anyone else. I have no problem if JJP needs preorders to fund their projects. They should release a playfield design layout or more than "we are making hobbit".

You are going to get a lot of interest on that money

That's your choice, congrats...but maybe the bigger "chump" is the one who has a known turd(s) sitting in his game room...

Whenever the end of the day Rob! It's fine with me....It's coming soon enough brotha...but I'm glad all you guys are so concerned about us "chumps"....makes me feel better

Hey Rob, if you don't have anyone closer to you I'll invite you down to SA to play my BJZA so you can see what you missed!

Not sure what you're trying to say but I don't have any turds in my gameroom. And if I do have a game I don't like I can simply sell it and get something else. That's because I actually have the product.

I appreciate that! When I got out it was with the complete understanding that there is a very good chance that I will look back on it and wish that I could have stayed in. Just too many unknowns for me, and the wait would drive me INSANE.

Wait...didn't you do the same for X-Men and Avengers???

Now that's just your opinion...isn't it....

Everybody has their own preferences on what to buy, how to buy it and when to buy it....doesn't make anybody a "chump"

I love it Riggy!!.....lol.......Despite the fact I bitch about Jack picking the WOZ theme, you know I will be the first one at your house for your NIB party. I will be calling two weeks in advance asking you if you need me to bring anything.....lol People will be complaining at the party that I am hogging the machine. WOZ PARTY!!!!!!! We are off the see the wizard the wonderful wizard of OZ, because, because, because, because, because of the wonderful things he does!!!!!!

I know but hey so far things are on "schedule" and the forum and discussion between all the owners and Jpop and Heck is pretty cool....since when do you get to have input into a pin in development direct with the designers! At least its not wait and no word until the next update....

I have to say, I'm quite jealous of these high-society folks who can not only dish out $7k+ on a game they've never played (but actually does exists in some yet-to-be-delivered form), but can repeat that move on a game only so far along in the design process that it consists of nothing more than a name and chosen theme.

Wow...just wow.

As I've said before, this hobby is ripe for the picking if a charlatan wants to make a killing on selling tons of nothing. And I'm not saying that Jersey Jack is doing that, but c'mon... Seems like anybody could pop in and say "Hey, I decided this morning that I'm gonna make a NEW pinball machine, so pre-order now for $8,000!" and WAY too many people will go "ErMAgAWD! tAKe MY moNEy NOW!"

Jack has built a good customer reputation, in the USA and Europe. You buy from him, he takes care of you, especially after the sale. He doesn't disappear like many game room merchants might.

It is on that reputation alone that a lot of people ordered his first game, and even wanted to order his second game, before they ever knew what it might be.

So I don't believe anybody could just pop up and say pre-order and send me money now.

And what is the on going issue with this, please ?

You don't want in, don't send money. Plain and simple. Endless complaining here won't change anything.

LTG : )

But Jack has been in in the coin op business his whole working life. He is not a complete unknown, even though he is new to pin manufacturing.

Not really "just anybody"....I carefully considered the backgrounds and intellect of JJP and Jpop before I dropped in and IF it never happened then its not like I mortgaged the house to buy a pin

AMEN.

hobbit pro #420 how do i get it?

Yet...

This can be a really difficult decision to make .Competition usually makes competing products better, but at what cost ?It seems that a great many people really want to see JJP succeed, but the risk monetarilly is great when we are asked to pre-pay over $7k and wait over 2 years to receive our order. I personally had an order in for the WOZ LE, but sold my spot after 1 1/2 years of prolonged waiting and multiple disappointments .Now we are asked to take another Leap of Faith to prepay and wait another 2+ years.I would still like to buy a WOZ used after it is out and the codes are revised.

Does anybody know who will be the artist for the Hobbit pin?

Pappy

I loved the theme and as of now am still left holding the bag of unfinished code with x-men, I actually feel wozle has a better chance of eventually being the more complete game. Will probably be in line for TH also.

For 8 thousand dollars, you should be able to get 3 to 5 good games, not just one.... still in "this market". TZ is a great game, but there are many games that are just as fun.

Dont think there taking orders on the pro yet, I know the le #420 is reserved

With 1500 LE models how many pro models are we talking? 3000?

Absolutely not. We were given some information before ordering such as number of flippers, toys, features, etc. For all we know, hobbit has no flippers.

Sorry but when given only "were making a game called hobbit, come pay now", you have no preference or opinion because you have no idea what you're buying.

The biggest unknown I've stepped into was bhza. But before paying on that, there was at least some info and an explanation of how things would be open for development as the process moved forward. Plus it was a truly limited opportunity (124 units vs 1500).

JJP doesn't make "Pros". That's a term used by Stern to refer to its stripped down game version. JJP makes LE's, which are huge runs and not very limited, and a full features, full priced regular model.

Sorry but nobody knows anything except that they're making something called the hobbit. For all we know the device won't need art. Shrug.

I heard from a good source the artist for The Hobbit is Jeff Busch.
http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=jeff+busch&sortby=name&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick

His LinkedIn page shows he worked for JJP last year: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jeff-busch/8/384/1b5

And here is his website: http://www.jeffbuschcreative.com/

I heard he is a big fan of The Hobbit as well.

-Brannon

Jeff is an amazing artist

Wonder if Pinball Sales bought 700 of them.

Hell yeah he is

Um... WHY? Seriously.. I love how people get upset about something they have nothing to benefit or lose from. So he just said "hey, we are doing a pinball machine" and got 900 orders.. so what? And if he got 200? So what? Who cares?

Am i happy WOZ is not released yet as one who pre-ordered? No. Did i pre-order TH? No. I am an adult and can make my own decisions.. and at the same time I dont sit here and whine about how someone else should run their business. OBVIOUSLY its working for JJP. No one is forcing you to buy, so why the hate?

Its not hate. Its a forum about Pinball. He has paid for WOZ. As a buyer he is stating what he thinks is reasonable. Details before money.
Its totally reasonable to voice opinions on this and some would say its torch worth bearing that hopefully changes SOP.

Are you saying it causes harm, followed by good? 'cuz that's what "then" means, one thing following another chronologically.

People, the word is "than."

- sorry, cranky today.

This is escalating fast...

Brick-Tamland.gif

Brick, you killed a guy.