(Topic ID: 295740)

Alltek MPU stuck on four flashes

By rockwell

2 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by rockwell
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 2 years ago

Starting a new thread here. One problem at a time on my Mr and Mrs Pac-Man This is a new machine to me, just starting to try and repair it.

I am stuck on four flashes when booting up the Alltek MPU. To be clear, that includes the initial flash. So...

Flash - pause - Flash - Flash - Flash. Then nothing.

I had just repinned the MPU connector plugs, and confirmed they are wired correctly. Tried pulling all the plugs except J4 from the board and rebooting, but issue persists.

Suggestions what I can try next?

At one point, I thought I heard a tiny -pop-, but checked all fuses and they seem fine.

#2 2 years ago

Are you getting 5v on the mpu? Have you repinned the connectors on the rectifier board?

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from bluespin:

Are you getting 5v on the mpu? Have you repinned the connectors on the rectifier board?

I am getting 5v at the MPU, I have not repinned the rectifier board connectors yet.

#4 2 years ago

3rd Flash: U8 5101 ram OK (U8 & U13 on mpu-200)
4th Flash: U10 PIA OK (see details for caveats)

https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

3rd Flash: U8 5101 ram OK (U8 & U13 on mpu-200)
4th Flash: U10 PIA OK (see details for caveats)
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern

Is the U10 equivalent to the U6 (U5?) On the Alltek? I'm also wondering what would have caused the bad chip given it's a new board. Must have a hidden issue somewhere.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from rockwell:

Is the U10 equivalent to the U6 (U5?) On the Alltek? I'm also wondering what would have caused the bad chip given it's a new board. Must have a hidden issue somewhere.

Wow....wow. alltek even in the title and I missed it
Confusing...alltek shows a proper sequence but then says...
"Just a note, Baby Pacman has a little bit of a different Self-Test sequence"
?!

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Wow....wow. alltek even in the title and I missed it
Confusing...alltek shows a proper sequence but then says...
"Just a note, Baby Pacman has a little bit of a different Self-Test sequence"
?!

No worries And the machine I am working on is a Mr & Mrs Pac-Man, so at least I don't have to worry about any Baby Pac-Man weirdness.

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from rockwell:

No worries And the machine I am working on is a Mr & Mrs Pac-Man, so at least I don't have to worry about any Baby Pac-Man weirdness.

Its almost like all this beer isn't helping my reading comprehension?!

Bump

#9 2 years ago

If this is a new board, contact Alltek for help.

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Its almost like all this beer isn't helping my reading comprehension?!
Bump

Perhaps we are in the same boat

Quoted from KenLayton:

If this is a new board, contact Alltek for help.

I will contact Alltek. In the meantime, any ideas what might have caused the MPU to stop displaying all 7 flashes? It did originally when I received it, but after a bit if tinkering now only gets through 4.

#11 2 years ago

At which point did it give 7 flashes? Did you have everything connected when you had 7 flashes? I would try to connect the strict minimum to the board. The next flash you are missing is related to the PIA and it always possible that something is shorted on the playfield and it is not allowing the PIA to act properly during boot. You have a new board and are repairing that machine which means, it has issues before I assume. Did you verify the dipswitches and made sure they are properly set for Mr Pac man? No switches have been slightly nudge when manipulating the board and are maybe in between 2 sides?

Right now your board stops when trying to test u10. U11 is the exact same chip and can be interchanged, but if a connection damaged or is preventing u10 from working properly, unless identified it would cause the exact same issue. You have to eliminate all possible causes one a time, so start with the bare minimum to boot the board, add another connector and boot again and so on.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from rockwell:

I will contact Alltek. In the meantime, any ideas what might have caused the MPU to stop displaying all 7 flashes? It did originally when I received it, but after a bit if tinkering now only gets through 4.

5th flash not working is problem with U11.... u10 is the switch PIA, U11 is connected to the displays and the solenoid control. Try disconnecting the displays to see if something is feeding back through them.

You can swap the chips to see if the behavior changes. I wouldn't do too much though as even though Alltek has the lifetime warranty, it might be void if you start to fool around with stuff.

I don't think you're having a power supply +5 issue as the board just wouldn't boot that far consistently if you had. Set the board up and swap it into your Embryon and see if it works there.... advantage having 2 machines for this type of troubleshooting.

Also, it is possible that you're interpreting the normal 'flicker' of the LED at power on as the first flash - if this is the case, you are actually stopping at the 3rd flash which would be the u10 pia having issues instead of u11. These are connected to the switches, so you can remove the 2 harnesses on the right side (j2/j3) and see if it boots farther.

All the part and connector numbers might be different on the alltek, u10/u11 j2/j3 are what they are labeled on bally boards.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

5th flash not working is problem with U11.... u10 is the switch PIA, U11 is connected to the displays and the solenoid control. Try disconnecting the displays to see if something is feeding back through them.
You can swap the chips to see if the behavior changes. I wouldn't do too much though as even though Alltek has the lifetime warranty, it might be void if you start to fool around with stuff.
I don't think you're having a power supply +5 issue as the board just wouldn't boot that far consistently if you had. Set the board up and swap it into your Embryon and see if it works there.... advantage having 2 machines for this type of troubleshooting.
Also, it is possible that you're interpreting the normal 'flicker' of the LED at power on as the first flash - if this is the case, you are actually stopping at the 3rd flash which would be the u10 pia having issues instead of u11. These are connected to the switches, so you can remove the 2 harnesses on the right side (j2/j3) and see if it boots farther.
All the part and connector numbers might be different on the alltek, u10/u11 j2/j3 are what they are labeled on bally boards.

Thanks for the thoughts. I did try booting with all connectors disconnected except the MPU J4, problem persists. And correct, not counting the first flicker, it would be three flashes. I will contact Alltek after I try swapping out in Embryon to see if it functions normally.

Sounds like U10 (or whatever it is on the Alltek) is the likely culprit in this case...pardon my ignorance, but it being connected to the switches means perhaps I have a weird short or something somewhere across the playfield switches? Would a short on a switch someplace blow the U10? Would hate to get the Alltek fixed or replaced just to have it happen again.

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from rockwell:

Sounds like U10 (or whatever it is on the Alltek) is the likely culprit in this case...pardon my ignorance, but it being connected to the switches means perhaps I have a weird short or something somewhere across the playfield switches? Would a short on a switch someplace blow the U10? Would hate to get the Alltek fixed or replaced just to have it happen again

Yes, that is likely there is a sneak short in the switches on the coin door or the playfield (probably to solenoid voltage as lamp voltage would likely be ok)
Of course M&MPM also has a display in the playfield so there's the +190vdc floating around in there as well. Lots of fun stuff to check for shorts.

You could narrow it down by pulling the high voltage fuse from the rectifier board, the solenoid fuse from under the PF, and the lamp fuse from the rectifier board too. If it boots with all of those circuits removed, reconnect one at a time and see when it stops booting... the short would be on one of those circuits. Otherwise, you'll have to look at every switch connection to see what else might be shorted against it that shouldn't be. Common culprits in this situation are coil brackets, but sometimes it ends up being something that mashes through a mounting screw that you can't see. Not a fun time, especially on a packed playfield. If you do find it's coils and the drop banks are on connectors you could remove them entirely to take that out of the equation, and would make it easier to inspect the wiring closely. Nice bright light helps here.

This is of course if the board is still working and the bootup interruption now is caused by one of those circuits. If it's just dead the same way in your embryon, it's the board.... possibly damaged by the short. So you have to find the short before you put a working board back into the game, unless you want to sacrifice 6821 pia's with troubleshooting as described in the previous paragraph with the fuses.

Did it ever boot all the way up in the game?

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Yes, that is likely there is a sneak short in the switches on the coin door or the playfield (probably to solenoid voltage as lamp voltage would likely be ok)
Of course M&MPM also has a display in the playfield so there's the +190vdc floating around in there as well. Lots of fun stuff to check for shorts.
You could narrow it down by pulling the high voltage fuse from the rectifier board, the solenoid fuse from under the PF, and the lamp fuse from the rectifier board too. If it boots with all of those circuits removed, reconnect one at a time and see when it stops booting... the short would be on one of those circuits. Otherwise, you'll have to look at every switch connection to see what else might be shorted against it that shouldn't be. Common culprits in this situation are coil brackets, but sometimes it ends up being something that mashes through a mounting screw that you can't see. Not a fun time, especially on a packed playfield. If you do find it's coils and the drop banks are on connectors you could remove them entirely to take that out of the equation, and would make it easier to inspect the wiring closely. Nice bright light helps here.
This is of course if the board is still working and the bootup interruption now is caused by one of those circuits. If it's just dead the same way in your embryon, it's the board.... possibly damaged by the short. So you have to find the short before you put a working board back into the game, unless you want to sacrifice 6821 pia's with troubleshooting as described in the previous paragraph with the fuses.
Did it ever boot all the way up in the game?

Thanks again for the detailed help. I will start by testing the board out in Embryon and see how it behaves. Either way, sounds like I will have to track down the issue before I get a new PIA in there (or new board).

It did fully boot until I started doing some small fixes. Mostly re-pinning the connectors, though I was messing around with displays and other stuff as well. The re-pinned connectors are confirmed good so I'm confident I didn't further screw anything up there. It had problems with the lamps behaving weird and coils not firing (or the wrong coils firing) when I could get it to boot, which is what got me re-pinning connectors originally. Here's a video of the weird PacMaze...one lamp locked on and the B-A-L-L-Y animation displaying incorrectly.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f3eroru45psx24l/PXL_20210624_013014338.mp4?dl=0

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from rockwell:

Mostly re-pinning the connectors, though I was messing around with displays

You didn't by chance plug a display connector the wrong way around or off by one pin? This can potentially send high voltage back into the PIA - can burn out the resistor leading to the PIA pin that got the zap.

Alltek Rev D to Rev J:
Bally U7 = Alltek U16
Bally U8 = Alltek U16
Bally U9 = Alltek U7
Bally U10 = Alltek U8
Bally U11 = Alltek U5

Alltek Rev K & Rev L
Bally U7 = Alltek U15
Bally U8 = Alltek U15
Bally U9 = Alltek U5
Bally U10 = Alltek U6
Bally U11 = Alltek U2

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

You didn't by chance plug a display connector the wrong way around or off by one pin? This can potentially send high voltage back into the PIA - can burn out the resistor leading to the PIA pin that got the zap.
Alltek Rev D to Rev J:
Bally U7 = Alltek U16
Bally U8 = Alltek U16
Bally U9 = Alltek U7
Bally U10 = Alltek U8
Bally U11 = Alltek U5
Alltek Rev K & Rev L
Bally U7 = Alltek U15
Bally U8 = Alltek U15
Bally U9 = Alltek U5
Bally U10 = Alltek U6
Bally U11 = Alltek U2

Thanks for the details @quench. I don't think I had a display plugged in stupidly, but I won't rule it out. I was swapping out the displays trying to make sure they were all working (some were bad when I got it). I did get a full working set up and running before I managed to harm the MPU.

Edit: But for what it's worth, I have had the displays unplugged while I've been troubleshooting the MPU.

#18 2 years ago

OK, tested the Alltek in question on 100% working Embryon, and the MPU shows the same four flashes. So looks like the issue is with the MPU.

Based on the flashes I am getting (flicker-pause-flash-flash-flash), sound like I may need to replace the U6 on the Alltek (equivalent to original MPU U10).

Anyone have a chip they recommend?

In the meantime, I will try and track down the short.

#19 2 years ago

Swap U6 with U2. They are both 6821 PIA chips. See if the flash sequence changes with one more or one less flash.
If it's faulty, you can get new replacements from GPE:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=W65C21N6TPG-14

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Swap U6 with U2. They are both 6821 PIA chips. See if the flash sequence changes with one more or one less flash.
If it's faulty, you can get new replacements from GPE:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=W65C21N6TPG-14

Yes, confirmed. I swapped U6 and U2 and got one less flash (flicker-pause-flash-flash).

Replacement chip on the way.

Now to find the source of the issue so I don't blow it again

#21 2 years ago

6821 chips can die on their own.

#22 2 years ago

I replaced the troublesome PIA at U2 and now the Alltek boots proper.

There are still some issues, but at least I have a game that boots and the lights seem a little touchy, but are working. I think there is a grounding issue with the MPU, as removing the holding screw seems to have made a difference. I will inspect further.

Now, I need to start troubleshooting some other issues. For starters...

I have a credit switch that registers in the diagnostic switch test correctly, but does not work. The coin slot switches aren't registering either, but the lamps are on. I will double-confirm there is nothing amiss in the coin door harness connector, but that looks fine. And the MPU connectors were re-pinned. Not sure where else to start, but perhaps if I can figure out the grounding issue on the MPU, that will give me a clue.

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