(Topic ID: 49572)

Allentown: ToTAN sold, WoZ bought, machines beaten on, friends met...!


By NJGecko

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 85 posts
  • 39 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by TheLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 7 years ago

Just made it home and wanted to share my recap. Where to start....

Brought ToTAN. Got there early yesterday and set up. Dropped my CV armor off with Alex for some tasty powdercoat. Lots of interest on ToTAN, but no offers. Realized that it was priced as the most expensive machine on the floor. The MM and AFM were both not for sale...that explained it. Changed the sign to best offer today
Last night as you may have seen, the game died. This morning picked up a refurb power driver board from Mayfair, game came back to life. I was going to repair it myself, but someone made me an offer on the old board. Machine sold after lunchtime...that made me really happy. Walked over and handed the cash over to Jack and ordered a WoZ. That was actually pretty neat, I ordered and handed the cash to Jack directly, and I'm going to be able to pick the game up from the factory when it's ready.

I met a lot of great people...folks I've known before and I had a few people come up to me and introduce themselves to me. I guess everybody recognized the guy working in the ToTAN...my wife got a laugh out of people walking up to me asking if I was NJGecko! It really was fantastic to meet up with the people...this show I really felt like I was a part of a community. Last year at York wasn't the same feeling.

The bad...I don't think I will ever bring a machine to a show again. I know the game hasn't been played for hours on end like this for years so it got a workout. By the time the game sold it was throwing errors and as the buyer and I checked through it, there were broken coils, switches with the wires broken off of the leads...OK, that's fine. Wear and tear. The machine had 150+ plays on it by the time it was wrapped. But the treatment some people gave the game really sickened me.
At various times I saw:
Shaking (REALLY shaking)
Smacking (hard enough to tilt the game)
People picking up the entire machine and moving it into an empty spot (it was directly under a light so the glare was bad, I understand) but really...two people just picked it up?
And the worst was seeing someone pick up the front of the game and slam it onto the ground to try to clear a stick ball.
I was floored at the abuse that game got. I feel bad enough nudging a machine that's not mine.

Anyway...home now!

#2 7 years ago

Nudging is one thing... What you're describing? OUCH! What a bunch of savages... I was there today as well, good times... Even though I was under the weather.

#3 7 years ago

I hope your experience or what you have witnessed doesn't sour the shows forever.

Being older, I still remember playing in the arcades. I'm one of those that would take pride in playing games, winning free plays and then selling those games so I would essentially play for free.

I don't know if the pay one price, play all you want concept of these shows leads to abuse of games.

Makes no difference if you are a crappy player anymore.

#4 7 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

And the worst was seeing someone pick up the front of the game and slam it onto the ground to try to clear a stick ball.

That shouldn't be the worst thing, happens all the time. I've been doing that for 15+ years.
For revenge, a couple weeks ago I did that to my PM and forgot the translite wasn't locked. It fell directly on my head and hurt. Well played Capcom!

EDIT: I've also been known to rage shake some games...of course only tournament games whcih we all know deserve it.

#5 7 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

That shouldn't be the worst thing, happens all the time. I've been doing that for 15+ years.
For revenge, a couple weeks ago I did that to my PM and forgot the translite wasn't locked. It fell directly on my head and hurt. Well played Capcom!
EDIT: I've also been known to rage shake some games...of course only tournament games whcih we all know deserve it.

That may be the case in the wild, but at shows, I can't accept that kind of behavior...these aren't operators bringing games expecting some abuse. A nudge is fine, but lifting the front legs 6" off the ground and dropping the machine...? And knowing it's someone's personal machine? No...that's just not right! It's like if you rent a car from Hertz. It's going to be beaten to snot. But if a friend lets you borrow their restored vette, you treat it as such.

I still can't believe I saw people pick up the entire machine and move it..that took the cake!

It's like anything else...some people are different than others. I had a call to clear a stuck ball. It was nice, the guy waited for me to come clear it, thanked me, and happily played a game when I was done.

#6 7 years ago

Man, that's crazy! I didn't see any of those shenanigans on Friday when I was there but glad you got it sorted out and sold. People are assholes!

#7 7 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

I feel bad enough nudging a machine that's not mine.

I feel the same way.

#8 7 years ago

Mind if I ask what you got for the TOTAN?

#9 7 years ago

For the most part I didn't see any abuse but at one point I was startled by someone SLAMMING their hand on the playfield glass. Seemed like two or four guys competeing on a pin and the last guy I guess almost one and was pissed when his ball drained. I was actually standing with the owner of the pin. He played it off well but I would off said something!

#10 7 years ago

I also failed to witness incidents of abuse - other than the one obvious example when NJGecko and I were standing watching his TOTAN and someone decided to fist pound the side of the cabinet to free a ball lodged behind the Genie. The guy had egg on his face when Gecko appeared - he had not realized the owner was standing talking to me 15 feet behind him. LOL

No expletives were exchanged - it was civil.

#11 7 years ago

Fist pounding glass isn't cool cause it can break, but very very rarely. Of course I never want to be the guy that it actually happens to. Slamming the side of a machine to dislodge a ball, picking up the game to try to loosen a stuck ball, or dropping the front from a couple inches is no big deal. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. It may come as a surprise to people these days, but games are made to be put through just aboot anything and survive; not just sit in a house and be rubbed with a diaper

EDIT: Of course I would also make a distinction between people that know what they're doing, and some average joe just going bonkers on a game.

#12 7 years ago

Gecko, my fellow pinsider and I were the two that moved it over after we spoke to you about the old timer who was walloping your machine when the ball was stuck behind the genie, I apologize but I thought when we spoke and were talking about the bad glare at the flippers you suggested moving it. After you and your wife left we gently picked it up and moved it over one spot. Again, I'm sorry I must have heard you wrong. No harm intended. We respected the machine, we even turned it off once when the ball wouldn't kick out and a game start.

#13 7 years ago

Thanks for all of the feedback...
Gnatty, maybe it was a misunderstanding...when we were there and you mentioned the glare I asked if you guys wanted to lend a hand and help me move it. When you declined, I figured it was good as it was. Turned around a minute later and see it moving...

Law...yea, these games were made to be used...but on the other hand, they are also a decade+ old and most haven't been on for more than an hour or two at a time in a long time.

I was surprised how much these games worked. When I went over to dislodge a ball at one point, the amount of heat coming off of the playfield really shocked me!

For those folks asking me how much it went for, I will just leave it at it went for a hair under $6. Sure I was hoping for more, but that's a fair price I think. Little less than I wanted, little more than the buyer wanted, and in the end neither parts was totally happy which is the sign of a good deal I think It was actually nice, the buyer was on the fence for a while and once he made his mind up and I handed him the keys he was smiling ear to ear.

I felt bad for the guy who was next to me on Friday. He was setting up an EM (not sure which it was) and said he was selling it because, among other reasons, he didn't know enough about how to fix them, so he wanted to sell it. And when he moved it to the show something broke. He had a lot of trouble trying to find help to fix it, and I'm not sure he ever got it working...

#14 7 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

Law...yea, these games were made to be used...but on the other hand, they are also a decade+ old and most haven't been on for more than an hour or two at a time in a long time.
I was surprised how much these games worked.

Not trying to be rude at all, but for more than a decade they were probably on for 10+ hours a day; on a light day. Plus, ever seen the polls on pinside aboot people that turn their machines on everyday whether they play them or not? Until we get a little more in the future with the whole "home game market," they're built to last. They are machines made to serve man...what could go wrong?
That's what they are made for. Now, roll "The Pin" in there and i might start to get worried.

#15 7 years ago

Give "the pin" ten minutes on the floor there...it would be a pile of firewood!

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

Give "the pin" ten minutes on the floor there...it would be a pile of firewood!

That's the problem...people lack respect. I applaud you for bringing your games (I don't think I could ever consciously do it)! It is people like you that keep this hobby going and help introduce it to people who may be unaware about the beauty of pinball.

I am constantly in horror about how my machines are treated when I bring them to my restaurant - kids driving their dinky cars up and down the glass, beers set on them, greasy fingers.... When I confront them, they are more than sheepish at their ignorance.

Perhaps all games should come with a body-guard! LOL!

#17 7 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Fist pounding glass isn't cool cause it can break, but very very rarely. Of course I never want to be the guy that it actually happens to. Slamming the side of a machine to dislodge a ball, picking up the game to try to loosen a stuck ball, or dropping the front from a couple inches is no big deal. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. It may come as a surprise to people these days, but games are made to be put through just aboot anything and survive; not just sit in a house and be rubbed with a diaper

I agree with you on most of your points, but in the case of the glass you never know if a machine has plate glass in it. Machines at my location, the big IFPA tournament last summer and at the most recent Pinburgh at PAPA have all had plate glass break in the past year. I have since checked all my games to make sure the glass is tempered.

If you ask me every show should check all games for tempered glass as they're set up, especially when their lineups are made up of donated games. For whatever reason some collectors seem to think it's OK to put plate glass in their games, and then they sell them to other collectors and don't tell them about it. Before you know it, the eventual unwitting owner donates the game to a show or tournament, and someone's fist (or head!) ends up smashed through it. Could be a major problem for a show if someone ended up being badly hurt.

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from bobbyconover:

I agree with you on most of your points, but in the case of the glass you never know if a machine has plate glass in it.

Fair point, and something "off the beaten path." I have never knowingly seen plate glass in my life on a machine. But, like you said, it's out there. Another reason not to pound glass.

#19 7 years ago

The thing that really surprised me was how many playfields were up and being worked on. Even the Woz was being repaired. In the 2 days we were there I noticed a lot of weak flippers. There were a lot of solid games and reasonable prices too. I arrived with 10,000.00 and left with it in my pocket. I almost pulled the trigger on a couple of pins but they were not exactly what I wanted. I enjoyed the atmosphere, people playing pins they never tried before . Just do not stay at the Knights Inn what a toilet .

#20 7 years ago

Speaking of toilet did anyone else find the bathroom attendant a little creepy?

#21 7 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

Speaking of toilet did anyone else find the bathroom attendant a little creepy?

Yes. I didn't understand the 'Tips Appreciated'. He was just sitting there and didn't bother to even hand me a paper towel like they would at a fancy bar or club.

#22 7 years ago

Yea. It was great to see him by his tips bowl as there were no paper towels, no hand soap, and it looked like someone missed the urinal completely and he still just sat there.

#23 7 years ago

There's always the bathroom in the Farmer's Market...

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Not trying to be rude at all, but for more than a decade they were probably on for 10+ hours a day; on a light day. Plus, ever seen the polls on pinside aboot people that turn their machines on everyday whether they play them or not? Until we get a little more in the future with the whole "home game market," they're built to last. They are machines made to serve man...what could go wrong?
That's what they are made for. Now, roll "The Pin" in there and i might start to get worried.

True but most games don't get played nonstop like they do at shows. Not many games on route get 150-200 plays a day on location. If they did, there would be a lot more games on location.

#25 7 years ago

rookies....just wear depends and you never have to stop playing!!

#26 7 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

Speaking of toilet did anyone else find the bathroom attendant a little creepy?

Absolutely! The guy was asleep every time I went by him to empty my beer fill bladder. I gave him a buffalo nickel and a jumping high five after the third time I was in there and he woke up.

#27 7 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

True but most games don't get played nonstop like they do at shows. Not many games on route get 150-200 plays a day on location. If they did, there would be a lot more games on location.

This.

My Fire! got over 300 plays before it was sold. Diner had over 370 plays in 2 days. Aside from a ramp issue which I corrected, it played pretty well (I think).

This was my 13th show, and my 9th bringing machines. When you have that many machines, power draw can affect the flippers. It is FAR better in this location than it was in Merchant's Square, but it still happens. It seems to affect the older machines more though.

While I did not experience the abuse that NJGecko did, I have seen it happen. Not often, but there were some issues with someone on my Black Knight 2000 many years ago. It haooens, unfortunately. People sometimes suck.

These are mechanical, and have more plays in 2 days than most see in years. I think that most people do a great job, and do what they can to insure things keep running 100%.

Chris

#28 7 years ago

Thanks for bringing your TOTAN, I appreciated my son having a chance to play it. Glad you were able to move it and get your WOZ. Man WOZ is a work of art.

Jason

#29 7 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

Give "the pin" ten minutes on the floor there...it would be a pile of firewood!

I find it insulting that someone expects a tip for providing the basic convenience of permitting me to pee. That guy did NOTHING.

Oh wait - he did pick his face up halfway off the floor and pointed to the mop when I needed one to clean up the GeckoMess of Dr. Pepper or whatever it was that you sprayed all over the place.

The traffic report this morning said the NJ Turnpike is backed up due to 3 tractor trailers having run over a ToTAN - but I have not had my coffee yet so I might have imagined that.

#30 7 years ago
Quoted from hollywood:

That's the problem...people lack respect. I applaud you for bringing your games (I don't think I could ever consciously do it)! It is people like you that keep this hobby going and help introduce it to people who may be unaware about the beauty of pinball.
I am constantly in horror about how my machines are treated when I bring them to my restaurant - kids driving their dinky cars up and down the glass, beers set on them, greasy fingers.... When I confront them, they are more than sheepish at their ignorance.
Perhaps all games should come with a body-guard! LOL!

just wondering?? are there any signs up 'recommending' how these games should be treated? of course any 'pinsider' knows that people are bringing some of their home games but perhaps many non pinsiders feel its like playing a game on a route (not that they should be abused either but...) . maybe a few signs about that fact would help remedy that situation.

#31 7 years ago

i was there fri and sat and i as well seeen alot of abuse ,i even walked up to a guy smacking the side of a head because the dmd was flickering. I told him if that was my machine i would have hit you in the head like that, he just walked away!!!!!
i do some shows and see the abuse as well. @ MGC i had people with drinks setting on the glass!!!!
JT

#32 7 years ago

I brought my Party Zone to the show, I was across from Micky treat. I brought my game for free play because I wanted to support ivan and the show,it was not for sale and the right ramp is now cracked, I don't mind. When you bring a game to the show you get the benefit of being in the show early, you meet lots of other collectors just doing it for the love of collecting, you get free admission. If only sellers brought games to the show it wouldn't be much of a show.
To all that are reading these replies please don't let it discourage you from bringing a game or supporting the show if your thinking about it. Can't wait for next year and I will bring a game again.
BTW, you should be much more appreciative of the show, you were trying to sell that game for at least a month that I know of, CL,PINSIDE,KLOV.It did not sell till you brought it to the show, consider it a benefit that your game broke before a buyer paid you and it broke later at his home.
You got free admission to the show, and didn't have to pay a fee to sell it,you got cash to buy another game you wanted,to me this is a perfect scenario.

#33 7 years ago

Bill...you're a funny guy! But it's outta my gameroom, so if someone made road art out of it...well, you know!

Oh, and thanks for mopping up my exploding soda...I thought that was going to be a bad omen for the rest of the show.

#34 7 years ago

Thanks for bringing your Party Zone, Colehvac1.

A buddy of mine is looking to buy one, so I played a few games on it. Never played one before.

Cool pin!

I now have it loaded on my WIP virtual pincab, along with Dr. Dude of course.

#35 7 years ago

The games are made for that. Shaking, smacking, etc is nothing.

Now kicking the legs to where they bend or bust the cabinet. Kicking the coin door to where it bends, slamming the game into the wall or another game... That's abuse.

People are just used to coddling their pretty games and forget what they really are

#36 7 years ago

I don't agree with the lifting of the front of the game and dropping in the case of a stuck ball. The reason is simple - it's disrespectful to an expensive piece of equipment that isn't yours. And to that end, if the cabinet has sticker'ed type side and front artwork, doing this WILL damage it. And people wonder why the artwork gets crinkled around the legs. Now you know why. And in my experience, the proper nudging of a game accomplishes the same thing but with far less abuse.

And Rob if i see you doing that to any of my games, you'll be out of the building immediately.

#37 7 years ago

I can definitely see both sides of this one. Yes, the games are made for some "lively" play. But this isn't an arcade and the games mostly aren't owned by ops. These are people's personal property.

Same "car" analogy I threw out before. If you go to a car show and some cars are there to be driven, do you take someone's Shelby Cobra and whip it around, dump the clutch, power slide it...? Yea, the car was made for it, but that was years ago before it became an expensive personal piece of property.

#38 7 years ago

Funny you should mention that. I was passed by a blue and white Shelby on the drive back from Allentown. That wasn't you, was it?

#39 7 years ago

Definitely wasn't me...although that would have been an impressive trick if I could manage to fit ToTAN in that on the drive out!

#40 7 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

I can definitely see both sides of this one. Yes, the games are made for some "lively" play. But this isn't an arcade and the games mostly aren't owned by ops. These are people's personal property.

And the game that was sold to you.. was built the same as the game sold to the op. The games are built to be shook, banged, even even survive drops pretty good.

Quoted from NJGecko:

Same "car" analogy I threw out before. If you go to a car show and some cars are there to be driven, do you take someone's Shelby Cobra and whip it around, dump the clutch, power slide it...? Yea, the car was made for it, but that was years ago before it became an expensive personal piece of property.

Yeah, but the shelby owner doesn't park his car at the race track with the keys in the ignition either with a sign in it saying 'have a go!'. If you want to show off your showpiece as a piece of art - you don't put it in the free play area of a pinball show.

I'm not saying 'abuse away!' - but the problem is people have coddled things so much and don't play enough they forget what play is and think it will hurt the game.. forgotten the things were designed to tolerate it from the start.

Games are meant to be played! 150 games over a show? I know it's totan so the games are long.. but that's not much at all. At our league parties (a single afternoon+evening) games get that much play.

For giggles.. here is an email from 2008 from one of the party hosts..

First, looking at the overall summary:

League and Non-league guests attending: 49
Total Games Played: 2,311
Games Played Per Hour (10 Hours): 231
Games Played Per Guest: 47.2

And here's the information looking at # of games per machine:

Wheel of Fortune - 161
Whirlwind - 147
Flash Gordon - 147
Funhouse - 136
Getaway - 136
Indy 500 - 131
Joker Poker - 131
Attack from Mars - 129
Taxi - 125
Black Knight - 121
Pinbot - 120
World Cup Soccer - 115
Jungle Queen - 113 (1)
Space Odyssey - 109
Eight Ball Champ - 106 (1)
Fireball Classic - 100
Cosmic Gunfight - 100
Safe Cracker - 87
Twilight Zone - 69 (2)
Indiana Jones - 28 (2)

(1) Game was down for a short period of time (less than one hour) then returned to action
(2) Game was down and out of action for several hours

#41 7 years ago
Quoted from NJGecko:

I can definitely see both sides of this one. Yes, the games are made for some "lively" play. But this isn't an arcade and the games mostly aren't owned by ops. These are people's personal property.
Same "car" analogy I threw out before. If you go to a car show and some cars are there to be driven, do you take someone's Shelby Cobra and whip it around, dump the clutch, power slide it...? Yea, the car was made for it, but that was years ago before it became an expensive personal piece of property.

What is good for all pins is also bad for all pins. I realize this seems to be a common perception, but just because a game is in an arcade or owned by an operator doesn't mean it is okay to abuse it. I have games on location and if I saw someone pick one up and drop it, there would be a problem. New Stern legs bend and crack fairly easy--I know this because I have replaced legs that were damaged on location.

#42 7 years ago

Yeah, I don't think I could ever bring a machine to the show and have anyone play/abuse it. If I was selling, only a potential buyer would be playing. Just me.

#43 7 years ago

Shows and tourneys only work when we all contribute to make them happen. Pinball is not healthy enough to be purely self-sustaining.

Take a game to a show... they are only filled with great games when your peers do the same
Play in a tourney... even if you don't think you can win.. the action helps you and the event
volunteer at an event... they take bodies to run and can't afford to hire out. Do your part.

I sent 4 games to the FPO - and I don't regret any second of it even tho I didn't get to enjoy the event myself.

#44 7 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Yeah, I don't think I could ever bring a machine to the show and have anyone play/abuse it. If I was selling, only a potential buyer would be playing. Just me.

I said the same thing about the TPF. I took 4 pins there to try and sell, one of them being AFM, and it was a nightmare for me keeping them going. The abuse that some people give to the machines are rediculous. Whether or not people's playing styles vary, it is still not your machine and the $15 at the door does not entitle you to do as you wish.

-1
#45 7 years ago

When I'm home I don't even nudge my own machines!

#46 7 years ago

Ok, was that really a bathroom attendant? I didn't use it but my son did. He came back at one point and said "there is a bum in the bathroom". Sounds like he may have been right!

#47 7 years ago

Maybe each pin needs to come with a "trunk monkey." We could call it a cabinet monkey. You drop or smack a pin and thats it.

#48 7 years ago
Quoted from mrpostman:

Ok, was that really a bathroom attendant? I didn't use it but my son did. He came back at one point and said "there is a bum in the bathroom". Sounds like he may have been right!

You guys shouldn't judge this man, no matter what your opinion is this man is just trying to survive
He should be comended , should he collect welfare? He was very polite and thankful the whole time he was mopping up and cleaning your piss and shit. And let's complain about giving the man a dollar(the cost of 2 led lightbulb s) my greatgrandma was a bathroom attendant and owned a house and put food on the table 7 days a week.hes cleaning a bathroom all day as a job, should he come to work in a suit and tie. You guys really need to be more humble.

#49 7 years ago

^^^ well said.

#50 7 years ago

I agree, I gave him a few dollars on Saturday, felt bad this is what he was lead to do in his life.

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