(Topic ID: 159407)

Allentown Pinfest harassment - never again

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7 years ago


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  • Latest reply 7 years ago by TigerLaw
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    #68 7 years ago

    When we have a show we consider the needs of all that participate in a show. There are so many reasons but it boils down to those that 1) wish to contribute and benefit from the show, 2} get the things that they’d like or need, 3) enjoy the games that any show has to offer based on the generous contributions by those that participate. I’m pretty sure that no show can take in to consideration those that have self-serving agendas. I certainly can’t. I’m sure he exercised his right to get in to the show at no cost (freeplay machine on the floor) but felt he could leave when convenient without regard for anything else. Yes, I get the “some time on the floor is better than no time”. It’s the stampede effect we are trying to avoid. When one starts, than all seem to have happy feet for the door. The penalty clause is in place to discourage the practice. We really don’t want the money. The games on the floor have a much higher value. What of the people that paid to play? What about the vendors that make shows possible? Crowds support the vendors that have spent much much more to attend the show. If there are no crowds because there are no games than vendors aren’t successful. And soon after we have no show. So! Do you decide what’s best for you or consider those rules set forth by any promoter that are actually in place for the greater good. We are a community with many needs that must be protected. Personal needs can be accommodated with proper preparation.

    So please let me bore you with my method for attending a show (I do actually support other local shows here in the northeast}. It really is quite easy. I take the time to understand the rules set forth by the promoters. If I’m confused I take the time to ask the questions regarding my concerns. Once clear, I can choose to set aside the appropriate time for the show or make the necessary investment that fulfills my personal needs. Everybody is happy and no drama! A promoters dream! It would make my job 10 times easier. If I decide that I’m going to be a vendor than my machines are free to go at any time provided its okay with the venue. I still allocate the appropriate time because its not typically okay to leave when I feel like it. If unsure I would ask and obeyed by their rules. I consider it an honor or privilege to participate in a show. I always have and always will. I’ve been doing this a long time. Never once have I tried to figure out away around things for my own needs. Either I agree with the policies and obeyed by them or I don’t participate. Does it really need to be anything else???? A frustration I deal with too many times a day due to those with selfish needs.

    Many seem to think that its okay to leave your game on the floor for the next day. Its safe there for the night, you get in the next day for free and you can leave when its best for you. That’s great for you but causes problems for the show. I’d rather you’d pull your machine off the floor Friday night as per the rules. Of course its not very convenient for you and your game so you’d rather abuse the rules and justify your actions or complain about the penalty clause. If its on the floor its considered a contribution for the day. If you can’t do it, make arrangements. There are no unreasonable people here. We understand personal needs. We accommodate any that ask as long as its within the guide lines. If you don’t like the rules, don’t participate. I’ll quote one of my vendors “90% of my problems come from 10% of the customers”. Don’t be that guy. The show is hard enough. I’d like to enjoy some of it . I heard it was a great show! I missed it as I spent my time servicing the meme’s..

    But we as promoters have this to deal with. Attitudes like yours and far too many others. You assume you understand rules based on your logic or you take the time to understand the rules and figure out how to work around them. You ask to be the exception to the rule or just disregard them all together because it all about you! This is a self-serving agenda that doesn’t take in to consideration anything else. This is the real disgust! Your disgust is confusion at best. Of course you’d like to benefit from what the show has to offer with minimal investment. Once fulfilled, you should be free to go, I agree. So buy a ticket, enjoy the show and go home.

    At this point, if you’re somewhat reasonable you might agree. If you only knew what it takes to put on a show you would have a different attitude. I’m certain it would be if you did.

    Somehow, I suspect all of this will escape some of you and be nothing more than a waste of my time. I do want to thank you for encouraging me to right this. I normally wouldn’t. It’s my hope that this would encourage more so than discourage.

    Respectfully,

    Ivan

    #69 7 years ago

    This was not written directly to the op. It was written to address many on both threads. My apologies for any confusion

    #75 7 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    I know Ivan & his crew are really getting discouraged with machines being pulled out early. They know this is what kills a show and have been trying very had to keep growing the show - not kill the show. But I also understand the frustration of both buyers & sellers in the freeplay area.
    What kind of bugged me this year was the indoor flea market. Somehow the Fairground booked that side of the hall to another vendor until 5 PM Thursday. So indoor flea market vendors couldn't set up till after 5 PM. Ivan & the crew knew about this ahead of time but no one contacted any of us to let us know. I arrived at the show at 11:45 AM thinking I would grab lunch and start setting up instead we had to sit and wait almost 6 hours before we could start setting up? I talked to some people who got their as early as 9 AM Thursday and were waiting all day to be able to set up. Kind of sad no one took the time to let us indoor sellers know!
    Worse yet was I know that cost me at least $1500 to $2000 in sales. Set up day is my 2nd busiest day. Typically I sell about 25% of what I bring Thursday, 50% on Friday, and 10% on Saturday. Anyone that does shows knows set up day is a great selling day so this year we basically lost one day of a 3 day show. Ivan got a refund from the fairgrounds because of the mix up but never offered indoor flea market vendors anything? If I was running the show I would have at lest walked around personally and told each vendor I was sorry for the mix up and hand them $20 to go buy lunch or something.
    Overall Allentown is still one of the best shows in the country and it is close to home for me but things could be done better for sure. One change I would make is the hours. If I was running the show I would have "early buyers" Thursday 5 PM till 9 PM letting anyone willing to pay to get in a chance to shop Thursday after 5 PM. Then I would add an hour to Friday starting the show at 11 AM instead of noon. And lastly I would close the show at 5 or 6 PM Sunday letting people start pulling machines at 4 PM instead of 6 PM. Everyone has had enough by 4 PM and most of us just want to get loaded and be on the way home.
    Overall Ivan & his crew do a great job but with a few tweaks Allentown could be a MUCH better show.

    Come on Skip, really!!!!! Am I really suppose to believe that you couldn’t sell items after 5pm that you would have otherwise if you got in at 12 noon. For the record, most all knew about the late entry. You’re the only one I’m aware of that had a problem with it. Sorry you weren’t notified. It’s a setup day so I didn’t think it was that big of a deal. And why the comments about discounted space and suggested rebates.

    For the record, the cost of the Annex section actually exceeds the revenue it generates. We packed as many as we could in there this year so everybody could be successful despite the weather. You could have all been out in the rain. Instead of complaining a simple thanks would do. It was a really shitty weekend

    #76 7 years ago
    Quoted from Dayhuff:

    We'll said Ivan and even though I've not attended the show in a few years (stupid long distance thing) I feel your frustration in trying to make everyone happy by setting some guide lines for all to follow but there are still those people that want to take advantage of others at someone else's expense. Keep up the good work and try not to let it get you or the show down.
    John P. Dayhuff
    Battle Creek, Mi.
    269-979-3836

    Thank you John, looking forward to having you back some day.

    #78 7 years ago
    Quoted from Trekkie1978:

    Here's a couple ideas for the show next year.
    1 - Make the removal fee $150 to really help discourage people leaving with pins early.
    2 - Hand out a rules flyer to everyone when they get the wristband put on.
    3 - Change it that only staff can move games in and out of the floor during show hours. Maybe extra security is needed for this.
    Lastly, if adding these to the rules causes the prices to go from $17 up to $20 or even $25, I can't imagine that having any impact on attendance. I can only speak for myself when I say this, but if the fee to get in were $50, I'd still pay it...but I wouldn't go on Friday and Saturday, like I did this year.

    Its clear that a more aggressive stance or excessive deterrent is in order. Things have gotten way out of hand. I’ve known this for a few years now. We will continue to adjust and plans are in the works.

    #82 7 years ago
    Quoted from Trekkie1978:

    The way I see it, there's no other place I can go to, to play that many games for a $17 daily fee. Just doesn't exist.
    Figure Stern has gotten stricter with their rules to distributors, no reason why you shouldn't with the show.
    Also, whatever you did to have those vendors have that many new games on the floor, all I can say is THANK YOU!!!!!!!

    The vendors totally outdid themselves this year. I thank them all for participating. They took the show to whole new level. Thank the vendors. They've been very successful here.

    -8
    #91 7 years ago
    Quoted from mikepin:

    At pinball expo in Chicago ANd at OHIO show if a game is sold it can leave anytime the buyer wants or just turned off. It was pointed out to me by a seller years ago What happens if game goes up in smoke or a plastic breaks AFTER the game is sold.. Is the SHOW now responsible for this ?? Very good point no?? GAme sold eguals new owner may do what he wishes PERIOD Moral of story come early to play the most games early bird gets worm . GEE at car shows lets try to stop buyers from removing cars if they buy .. WRONG.. And yes I still thinks the most fun at ALLENTOWN was the outside flea market and I am still banned from coming due to my comments about this issue.. MIKE PACAK

    Hows that working out for you? I'd love to explain things to you and address your points. You wouldn't get it anyway so I won't waste are time. This show continues to grow, how about yours?

    #92 7 years ago
    Quoted from Ivan1496:

    Hows that working out for you? I'd love to explain things to you and address your points. You wouldn't get it anyway so I won't waste are time. This show continues to grow, how about yours?

    Opps our time

    #94 7 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    Ivan,
    If you check back on this post I just want to clarify things. First off I try my best to work with everyone and since we were way up in the back of the building I wanted to get their as early as possible so I could get in and out quickly before others started setting up. So I got up around 6 AM to finish loading then drove over two hours just to sit and wait 5 hours to get into the show. I know it wasn't your fault and I really wasn't all that upset by it. I know you are very busy the weeks before the show and I know everything doesn't always go as planned. But bottom line is it was frustrating to not be able to get in and set up early - especially when set up was suppose to be at 1 PM and we couldn't get in till after 5 PM.
    I always make a second trip for Friday with more stuff and with the delay in getting set up it made that second trip tough. I got home after midnight and loaded till about 2 AM. Then had to be back on the road by about 7 AM to get things ready for Friday.
    My point with my post here is everyone keeps crying about the $25 to get a machine out early when that is clearly in your agreement and paperwork for everyone to read & understand before bringing a machine is nothing to cry about compared to being delayed over 5 hours when setting up.
    Again - I know it wasn't your fault but I just wish you would have walked around and said something to the 8 or 10 of us in the back of that building over the weekend. Maybe you did talk to some of the other guys but I didn't get a chance to talk to you all weekend.
    As far as "lost sales" - I have 8 guys that were suppose to stop by and see me about 10 different machines Thursday afternoon before they set up (or what ever) and only two actually found me since I had most scheduled for earlier in the day. Not seeing those guys Thursday limited what I could bring back Friday because I didn't want to have more machines once show was over than I could get into the van & trailer coming home Saturday and you never know what will sell for sure. So I know that 5 hours cost me a bunch of sales but such is life.
    Thanks for doing an overall great job with the show! I know it isn't an easy task and I also know dealing with 100's of people with different ideas how you should do things can be tough. Please consider "early buyers" Thursday evening (maybe 5 PM to 9 PM with $25 entrance fee) - that would be more gate money and might help sales some for vendors. Also maybe a $50 three day pass idea?
    Also please consider 6 PM closing Saturday with people being able to start pulling out by 4 PM. I hate to suggest shorter hours but it might help with guys that have a long drive home.
    With everything that I have said and everyone else has said I want to thank you again for putting on a GREAT show and growing the show as much as you have since you took it over. It is hard to believe 8 years ago the flea market side was the entire show! GREAT JOB OVERALL!
    Thanks,
    Skip
    PS - And you have a great crew of guys working with you. Dealing with the general public is no fun so I don't blame any of them for getting a little frustrated at times. GREAT JOB EVERYONE! Life isn't perfect and we all need to accept that and consider all sides of the story. I know I would want to be in any of your boots!

    Thanks Skip, to too many snafus this year. We'll do better next year I hope. The early bird thing can't happen. I have enough problems. Thursday is for setup so we assist the vendors and those that need help with free play. Oh, sure we could make a killing with early entry. That's not my goal. I already have too many just hanging out and getting in the way.

    #96 7 years ago
    Quoted from Colehvac1:

    This thread should be closed by the mods, this is the type of crap that needs to end here on pinside. There is nothing productive that can come of this thread . Ivan hope to see you at pintastic, drinks are on me. Thanks for the great show, I will be there next year, already counting the days, and tuning the machines.
    Yours truly,
    The Pitbull

    I'll be there. Can't wait! had a great time last year.

    #110 7 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    And enjoy your empty game hall. Who in their right mind would bring a game with that sword of damocles hanging over their head??

    So your plan is more stick, less carrot? Good luck with that.

    Don’t read too much into it. Our current plans/thoughts have technical challenges. Anything else is just a bit of spitballing. Surely you must see the conundrum in all this. I do nothing and show suffers the same fate as some others.

    #121 7 years ago

    So I’ve spent the better part of my day reading and responding. I’ve done a lot of thinking about this issue and so many others. I think the best solution is for me to hire security to deal with all this. A lot of it! The battered looks on faces of my crew are something I never want to see again. These guys aren’t just help they’re my friends. I’d like to keep it that way. They and I had a particularly tuff time this year. I think its best that Pinfest staff stay out of it altogether. We really don’t want to deal with it anyway. We wish to maintain the reputation for being a courteous and helpful staff.

    This won’t be cheap and I’m not paying for it, the community is. You can expect admission, early withdraw, vendor and flea market fees to increase to cover the costs of security. You should expect that security to be there on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. You deal with them. We will do our part to make sure everyone understands the rules. There should be no more excuses. Its my hope that the increases will be modest as I’m burdening everyone with the cost. For most of you it won’t be a problem. For some, it might, I apologize.

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