Thanks for sharing.
ANOTHER dissatisfied customer....
Well done Ivan.
Maybe the organizer of Expo will chime in on how he has been treated by the Pinfest staff.

Thanks for having a bringing/having a working machine. I played another JM and the glove was not working. I only remembered it was yours now because of your avatar picture being on the for sale sheet. Now I understand more why Shacklersrevenge was saying he'd rather just buy a vendor spot to not be hassled trying to sell freeplay machines.

I got nicked for the 25 bucks at 5:15 on Saturday. I had a 6 hr drive ahead of me and just wanted to get on the road. By the letter I owed the money but the process does need to be more clearly explained when you check in. It would help avoid situations like you had and would have made my experience a little more pleasant.

there is a complaint thread after every show every year going back to the RGP gulag days.

Expo,Allentown,doesn't matter.

I didn't even go this year.I am tired of the dingy building they use for the show. And the farmers market I could do without. Ready for the thumbs down.

Scott, I guess you are doing nothing today like myself?

I read this somewhere else this morning too. Maybe it's a matter of getting rid of the A-Hole that feels the need to ASSert himself on some type of Napoleonic power trip and replace him with someone that isn't a D-Bag.

I agree with you 100%, the fee is a necessary evil, the lack of common courtesy isn't.

Thanks for bringing a game! I wouldn't let one idiot keep you from bringing one next year though.

I ran into this same sort of treatment. And it was due to a pin I bought from Ivan, the shows promoter last year. (granted Ivan wasn't involved)

I am from about 5 hours away and purchased a pin from Ivan on Friday with the known intentions of coming back Saturday morning to only pick it up and head back the 5 hours to my home. I paid in full Friday. Ivan knew I was picking it up the next morning, not staying the day, but driving home.

Well, upon getting to the show, I pulled my truck up to the back door. Tried to call ivan and no answer. No big deal.. he's busy. I knocked on the back door and one of Ivan's asshole henchmen greeted me in a really shitty way. I explained I was picking up a pin WHICH I BOUGHT FROM IVAN and I just wanted to load and go. I wasn't allowed in. This guy was the epitome of an asshole.

Finally, after getting ahold of Ivan, the asshole henchmen allowed me to get in to grab my already paid-for pin and leave. He wasn't nice. In fact, he went out of his way to be rude and power-trippy.

Left a REALLY sour taste in my mouth.

To be fair (because you mention TPF). TPF does not allow you to take your game until the show is over. If you do you are charged your admittance fee (think it's $60 now).

I'm not sure why you feel as you were harassed, maybe it was the tone of the conversation, but what you describe sounds like 2 people trying to do their job and enforce the rules of the show.

It is very much appreciated for anyone that brings a game to a show. I'm of the side that games should stay for the whole show for those that have paid to participate in the show. Those are the ones that get penalized and is why I support the shows stance on games leaving early. It's not much fun to pay to go to a show and before it's over see a lot of games being taken offline and out the door. Not putting blame on you (or anyone) but that's the reason they were doing what they were doing (IMHO).

***edit - sounds like some attitude adjustments are due based off others feedback too. That's a shame as their is a way to enforce the rules but still be respectful.

Allentown is an amazing show! I will keep supporting Ivan any way I can. With out people bringing games for free play their would be no show. So please don't let one bad experience ruin it forever. No show takes place with out having issues. I am sure that Ivan will look into what happened and find a happy medium for everyone. Last years Pintastic show we made all kinds of mistakes, with out Ivan's help and guidance it would have been a lot worse. For what it's worth I think Ivan's over all staff is a bunch of awesome people and I am friends with many of them.

Sorry that happened to you.
It's a shame when people exert so much energy to associate negativity with the pinball/arcade community.

We're such a small group to begin with.
Sounds like they are staffed by some real douchebags. Both those people probably have very little "control" over anything or any decisions in their own lives, and given these "roles" they were put in, had the opportunity to feel empowered to finally experience "control" over something/someone, and you were just the unlucky recipient of their pettiness & douchebaggery.

Just know, it's not like this everywhere.
Hope you keep supporting events and consider coming to other shows. Vote with your time & wallet. It's the only way things change.

Cheers amigo

25 dollar removal fee is ridiculous when admission is only 17.

It's a decent incentive to make sure people don't bother bringing games.

coming soon:Bitchfest!!!!

Harassment? EXTREMELY? Offensive? Deplorable? "Complied with his demands"?

Holy first world troubles Batman...

Just encourages the parking lot deals to not have to deal with it.

Many if not most free play games are brought to the show to sell, and to provide a way for the owner to get into the show Thursday night and Friday /Sat mornings before the "official" show opening. Most people I know do not stay until show closing each day.
Why not let free play games get sold and moved after maybe 3PM instead of closing? Most show attendees will have had a reasonable chance to see and play any sold games by then and owners can get on the road a bit earlier, or make dinner with the wife Fri or Sat night. Also, if there are more lenient rules on breaking down games, more people might bring a game to set up. I can't tell you how many people I talk to who say they won't bring a game because they don't want to be prevented from leaving before closing and just can't accept paying an early breakdown fee.

Additionally, why doesn't Ivan institute an "Early Buyer's Pass" or whatever the Chicagoland show calls it? Instead of paying $14 each day to get in, the Early Buyers Pass costs maybe $50 for all three days, and allows the holder to enter the show anytime.

I know I might rather pay a higher fee for early entrance than drag a freeplay game up to the show in the rain. As it was, I attended all three days, paid nothing for my attendance, brought one freeplay game, and sold it to a vendor who left it in place so no $25 fee was ultimately paid. I was happy with this arrangement and thoroughly enjoyed the show. But wouldn't it have been better for the show's promoters if I had paid the $50? Ivan makes more money instead of zero and I still may or may not have brought a game for free play depending on weather and various other circumstances.

Either way, the show is fun and a must go for me each year. But it seems to me that with a few tweaks, everyone could make out a little better and be more happy.

Settle down beavis.

I know who you are talking about. The curly haired guy. Yes he was a little intense but he has a job to do. And you started off on the wrong foot by wheeling your shit out before paying the fee or telling anybody.

Yes you are very offended at the "harassment" and your honor has been impugned but let's be real...if you had got that game out of there with nobody noticing would you REALLY have then sauntered over to the desk and volunteered the 25 clams? Come on man.

So anyway, you pissed the guy off. The was the time of the day where people were wheeling stuff out early left and right so his antenna was already up.

This situation could have been diffused at any moment. When curly came over to you with Ivan you easily could have laughed it off and said "hey relax guys I paid let's go over to the desk and talk the guy I paid" and this all would have worked itself out. Instead you got defensive and things escalated.

Shit happens sometimes. Yes I know your precious honor was offended but is all this really necessary?

The same thing happened to me. I sold a game, tried turning it off, had a little situation with curly but we worked It out. Not everything needs to be escalated and then brought here for the jury to consider. Seems like you were just looking for reasons to get pissed off and not bring a game next year. Re-read your original post and tell me you don't look like a screaming drama queen. It's too much man.

Because show attendees come based on the promise of many free play games. If you want to grow interest in pinball by holding a show, you need games at the show. Fewer games available for attendees means a worse experience for attendees.

I'm just a guest/vendor at the show like most of you... But the show is a Buisness and its there to make money...not everyone will be happy and not everyone will get along...if you feel you were treated wrong or talked to with disrespect those things can be addressed with Ivan just pick up your phone... But there's plenty of people there to take advantage of the show like sneaking in Thursday night trying to buy games before the show, and the people working there end up being the bad guys... There's a great group of people working to keep the show there for us to enjoy...Big Thanks to the crew at pinfest ..

I know Ivan & his crew are really getting discouraged with machines being pulled out early. They know this is what kills a show and have been trying very had to keep growing the show - not kill the show. But I also understand the frustration of both buyers & sellers in the freeplay area.

What kind of bugged me this year was the indoor flea market. Somehow the Fairground booked that side of the hall to another vendor until 5 PM Thursday. So indoor flea market vendors couldn't set up till after 5 PM. Ivan & the crew knew about this ahead of time but no one contacted any of us to let us know. I arrived at the show at 11:45 AM thinking I would grab lunch and start setting up instead we had to sit and wait almost 6 hours before we could start setting up? I talked to some people who got their as early as 9 AM Thursday and were waiting all day to be able to set up. Kind of sad no one took the time to let us indoor sellers know!

Worse yet was I know that cost me at least $1500 to $2000 in sales. Set up day is my 2nd busiest day. Typically I sell about 25% of what I bring Thursday, 50% on Friday, and 10% on Saturday. Anyone that does shows knows set up day is a great selling day so this year we basically lost one day of a 3 day show. Ivan got a refund from the fairgrounds because of the mix up but never offered indoor flea market vendors anything? If I was running the show I would have at lest walked around personally and told each vendor I was sorry for the mix up and hand them $20 to go buy lunch or something.

Overall Allentown is still one of the best shows in the country and it is close to home for me but things could be done better for sure. One change I would make is the hours. If I was running the show I would have "early buyers" Thursday 5 PM till 9 PM letting anyone willing to pay to get in a chance to shop Thursday after 5 PM. Then I would add an hour to Friday starting the show at 11 AM instead of noon. And lastly I would close the show at 5 or 6 PM Sunday letting people start pulling machines at 4 PM instead of 6 PM. Everyone has had enough by 4 PM and most of us just want to get loaded and be on the way home.

Overall Ivan & his crew do a great job but with a few tweaks Allentown could be a MUCH better show.

Posted about this in my other thread,

Brought an Austin Powers for free play, (damn good playing one too) Set it up Thursday, and it was there until Saturday, 3pm when a buyer bought it. I told him he needed to pay the $25 fee for early removal, and he did, done deal. That game was played close to 300 games.

Now on Friday evening, I had bought a nice Breakshot across from my Austin Powers. I was going to take it out that night (which would have been free) but figured eh, what the hell, leave it and people can play it and I can take it whenever because I have my Austin Powers here still. Breakshot was played straight for 5+ hours the next day and people loved it. The last person to play it before I broke it down told me how much she loved the game, that it played so good. I felt bad more couldn't play it, but I was tired and needed to get home. None of that play would have happened at all, if I had taken it the night before. (and It wasn't a registered pin)

As I broke it down, a curly haired dude came over to me, very rude and demanding, walking me to the registration table like I needed assistance, or like I was a bad dog. I explained to the guy at the table, ( who was really nice) and Ivan was standing right there. After I explained the situation to shrugging shoulders, not to cause waves, I said F it. Paid the $25 and loaded my game.

I really enjoy Allentown, and appreciate what goes into the show. However, a little respect and understanding goes a long way. If more and more people get treated like this, more and more people won't want to be bothered. I know Eric Bundy was slammed for not bringing games, but think of how many he has in the past? Dozens. Friday was as packed a show I've seen, so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, or what good it does to make someone feel bad.
All I know is I gave $25 for NOTHING. I know I'm right, the policy is wrong, and sometimes knowing you're right is all that matters.

I also had a run in with the curly haired guy. I traveled to the show with my 12 year old son to setup a game in the free play area. When I registered the game they gave me a wrist band for free admission and when I asked to pay for my sons attendance he told me my son would have to wait outside for a ticket until the show started. This was at 10am Friday and the show started at 12. When I told him I wasn’t going to send my son outside he got very abrasive and told me security was going to escort him out. I can understand they have strict policies around admittance but they should be able to pre admit/sell tickets to family members or helpers that come along to setup games. Friday was a nasty weather day and to make people wait outside for tickets that helped setup the show is stupid.
All in all I thought this was the best Allentown show I have attended. One jackass is not going to deter me from attending or bringing a game again next year.

I agree with the OP, the guy with the curly hair and Marco shirt on Friday was as straight up a$$hole. The guy didn't know how to talk to people at all. Just a rude dude and he is lucky someone didn't punch him.

I will say that a TON of games grew wheels on Saturday afternoon. I'm sure that once the organizers realized it they started freaking out and clamping down. I brought a Congo and left it running the entire show. I think it got roughly a million plays. I left around 6:30pm and it was one of the few DMD games that wasn't brought by a vendor still standing. It sounds like the OP and a few other people were the recipients of some heavy-handed treatment. Yes, there's ways to handle things and ways to not handle things.

A suggestion for game removals: guys working the doors (who are always super cordial, at least to me) don't let a game out unless it has a dated "removal tag" attached to it signed by Ivan or Curly or Moe. Get the frickin neon green tags that you can see from space. You want a tag? Go to the desk and pay the $25. Worked something out in advance? Get the tag in advance. No brainer IMHO.

I had a great time, too bad the weather sucked.

As others have said, it seems that the system just needs to be changed, and it would benefit everyone involved. They wouldn't have to "police" as much, and the attendees would be more aware. It just sounds like most people didn't know the "policy" that payment needs to be made prior to turning off a machine, much less a receipt provided as proof. If they want to address this in the future, make sure all vendors get a nice bright neon paper when they walk in stating this, and perhaps put a few signs up. Implement a tag system where you get a tag to tie to your machine when the $25 is paid. And again, most importantly, make sure everyone is 100% aware of the procedure. It sounds like poor communication more than anything else, especially if organizers are demanding to see a receipt and the people working don't even realize they need to give a receipt.

It sounds like the people who are running the show need to show a bit more respect and mindfulness when speaking to it's guests.

I'm just not going to ever bring a game again. It's not worth the hassle. I'm not paying $25 bucks to remove my game that I brought to share. That's just fk'd. It just stinks they're penalizing people trying to contribute to the show by making it cost them more money than to not even bring a game.

Curly sounds like a real sonofabitch. :l)

My wife and I really had a blast and thought it was the best show we've attended - having only been to Allentown and York shows.

We brought a pin, was planning to bring two but didn't have enough room with the touch game systems I also brought. I sold my one game Thursday evening and lucky for me the buyer kept it on freeplay all weekend with his other pin he brought.

Everyone I met who was involved with running the show - I don't know any names - was really nice in my dealings. I was able to come and go from all different doors all day long without anyone even asking to see my wristband. Maybe they were looking and saw mine and just didn't even ask, but everyone I dealt with was cool.

I also had a slight run in with this curly haired character. I asked him a question regarding the length of the show and he snapped back, didn't you read the flyer? Then he just turned his back on me and said something under his breath. He seemed like he was in a bad mood.

I understand your frustration, you were just trying to accommodate someone buying your machine and you get interrupted.

But my problem is with all the games being sold and wheeled away before most people even get a chance to see them. I waited inline at 12 on Friday to get in. Before I got in there were sold signs and games off already. I didnt get the chance to make a full round of the fest until probably around 5. And i know I didnt play the vast majority of the games available. And there were tons of games I really wanted to play but they were sold and off.

I dont know why you wouldnt want to spend the entire day. It closes at 9, thats not late.

And i get it, you buy a game do you really want to let 100s of strangers now play it and possibly have something go wrong with the machine before you get it home? But chances are your gonna have to adjust something when you get it home anyway, so stop being a spoiled sport and let the rest of us suckers who arent going to get to bring it home have a chance to experience the game.

So I am all for the early withdraw fee. And these guys probably had to deal with quite a few people trying to avoid the fees.

Overall, I was extremely pleased with this years Pinfest. I thought it was far superior to last years. Very happy there were a few Ghostbusters so the lines werent long, and yes i will be there next year, I may even bring a game to try to sell.

I heard of one incident where one player got angry and damaged the coin door on a game.

I was surprised to hear about that since significant and intentional damage is rare. However, I understand completely if a new owner wants to pull the game to avoid any technical (or attendee) issues.

Honestly, at the very least, I would pull a new purchase off the floor for at least a short time so I could thoroughly inspect it for issues, address any problem areas on the spot if I could, and put some wax down. If a game is not bullet-proofed to my standards, I would remove entirely, rather than risk a board going up in smoke. Unfortunately, I heard of a couple incidents of BBQed boards.

I find the withdraw fee perfectly reasonable. It helps keep games on the floor longer by providing a small deterrent, but the fee isn't so ridiculous where people who need to leave or want to remove new purchases can do so without hurting the wallet too badly.

Obviously, there are some issues with the way the show rules are (or aren't) enforced, just like any other show. I'm sure next year will be better as a result of the feedback from this year's show.

(Read to the end)

I bought a machine from Ivan after throwing him a very serious offer Saturday of all of the money I even had to spend (literally), having it get laughed at in my face, then offering $25 more (borrowed from a buddy) and it got accepted as long as the machine stays until the end of the day and it was stated many times, as he wanted to make sure, I suppose. However, I always do this anyways. I do it at the York show and at Pinfests. Any machine I buy and or bring stays on the floor for play until the last second. My Domino was one of the absolute last games plugged in this year and I had to plug it in like 3 more times at the end because people were collecting power strips and whatnot. I can see why people might want to turn the games off or pull them out early, but for me it's all about sharing and it's one of my favorite parts of the hobby which is why I leave them, because I can easily load them up alone anyways later on.

I get immense joy just watching other people enjoy them even if I just bought it and want to protect it. I don't even bring machines to sell, I bring not-for-sale games that I have worked on for hours for the purpose, and just let people enjoy them. I look forward to the shows not only to play and hang out but also to do this.

I was a little upset and put off by Ivan's actions towards the sale, but only towards the part not related to the "it needs to stay thing" (so it's irrelevant to this discussion), as I was planning to do that anyways and I think it was very fair in that regard and obviously am okay with, because I always do it anyways. I tried to explain that in addition to saying "okay, sure" but I guess it didn't go across as intended, didn't really matter anyways. Regardless, I do see why they try hard to get the machines to stay because it does get rather barren Friday night let alone Saturday afternoon. I felt a bit better after talking to other collectors about it and showing them my new purchase which they thought was great and I ended up feeling really good about it. I have no ill feelings towards Ivan and would do business with him again, hopefully this post doesn't seem rude. Gave him a wave and got one back as I left pretty late at night Saturday after taking down my machines, some of the last ones left. It was cool of him to bring so many games, including wedgeheads for our row.

I think we both ended up with a very good, fair deal and I was happy to spend the extra $25. I was also happy to leave the machine there as requested and load up/take down myself of course, as I was already planning to do anyways and even told a seller I bought a machine from at York to leave it there after he offered to load it up for me for free. It's really fun to see people enjoy these for the rest of the day while doing little tweaks and upgrades (like this year I bought coin entry plates it was missing from Mayfair and popped them in, also tweaked pop bumpers which were working incorrectly, switched to 5-ball, etc.) and seeing how it performs. The show is also a great place for this as you literally have a giant asset of parts, if you would need any, like my coin plates which I bought from Mayfair. As stated previously, I would do business with Ivan again.

It must be a stressful job to run this and I commend the staff on that. I do think this curly-headed character (not Ivan, I would assume, his hair isn't even close to curly) should be investigated though if he's being rude about things like a question of when the show ends let alone the rest.

You need to learn how to edit man.

Congrats on the domino cool game.

And I'm sure curly was doing just what he was asked to do - strictly enforce the rules. He was dealing with a machine trying to wheel itself out the door every 10 minutes by lunchtime so it's no surprise he was getting grumpy.

I'll bring a game again, I didn't feel like the experience was a pain at all.

Huh?

And I also bought a Spin-A-Card, I brought the Domino from home. Put a lot of hours into it before the show!

Sorry...I got a little lost wading through your epic post.

I played that spin a card, wasn't it right next to a hearts and spades?

I had 3 pins on freeplay, sold 2, played by the rules and both sellers waited until it was legal time, I encouraged them to let them on freeplay and I would maintain them, told one couple to run over to the market and have dinner. worked out great for them. Ivan doesn't want the $25, he wants games on the floor. My whole spin on this is if you want the good deals bring a pin on Thursday and have at it. I had more fun hanging with people than playing. And the bar at the Comfort was even better!!

Next stop PINTASTIC can't wait

That was a different one, this one was in the first row next to Out Of Sight and Trail Drive. (All brought by Ivan)

This one might have been a little bit dirtier but will clean up even nicer! Still can't believe how nice the cabinet and playfield are, besides little issues on these two dare I say "perfect"... Can't wait to clean all of the grime off of it and get it looking even nicer.

EDIT: Might as well include pictures http://imgur.com/a/mqUgj

As someone that attends the show, I'd say that the fee needs to be enough to serve as dis-incentive to prevent games from leaving in droves early. As it is, vendors and pins seem to disappear quickly at times both Friday and Saturday. I'm sure there are some that try to avoid paying the fee, hence the potentially rude behavior to collect the fee. Not an excuse to be rude, but I'm just considering the reality that some people will sneak out if they think they can.

Do other shows handle this in a similar fashion? What do they do to help ensure the show has games remain onsite for the duration as much as possible?

Take your ADHD meds.

That "is" the million dollar question! If I were a first time attendee, not knowing what to expect, having just driven two hours with my family to attend a show in which the flyer states 200+ games on free play for the price of admission and there were close to half that by the time I arrived I would be extremely disappointed and probably wouldn't make the effort of ever attending again. (phew!) That would be the downfall of all pinball shows. People fail to realize that this is a first time for many to come play a machine they may not have seen since childhood, not just a place to sell and buy machines amongst collectors. Also, non-pinball collectors bringing their children to see a pinball machine for the very first time. Not everyone has the convenience of taking a Friday off to come out before all the machines are sold and often plan their weekend around a Saturday night at the hotel. As much as it's appreciated that people bring their pins to share, if people continue to remove them before the scheduled dates and times that vendors spend several months promoting, there will be no future shows.

Oh, and I forgot ... please provide suggestions for retaining pins till the end of a show!!!

At the end of the day, everyone's going to look at it from their own perspective. Ivan's got to look at from the perspective of running a show, and getting vendors to the show.

If I was a vendor, I'd want the show to be going with all the 'donated' pins on the floor until close, as it means more hours for people to shop. When pins start leaving the floor in the middle of the afternoon, it creates the feeling that the show's over and people are packing up, yet I paid for floor space for a certain amount of time. Having a large amount of vendors there is imperative to the show, so they have to get value.

Perhaps the solution is for their to be an agreement that people bringing pins for free play are essentially 'renting' the pin to the show for the entirety of the show. The $25 early withdrawal fee is just a token fee that many will just pay to get out of there and doesn't have the deterrent effect desired.

It's a fine line... for the show to happen, you need people to bring pins and for them to stay, yet at the same time, you don't want to be too draconian about the rules, or people won't bring them. I don't envy Ivan having to deal with this.

I used to run a similar style show/swap meet for a different item for 3 years. As a show promoter there is nothing worse then seeing people pack up and leaving in the middle of the day. It ruins it for the spectators also. However being a swap meet with items for sale. I can understand the general public that bought a game wanting to take the game right then and there. These people know nothing about the rules or are part of it. You pay for something and you take it and leave. I couldn't see any reputable seller telling a buyer that he has to pay to take the game he just bought out of the show. This should be included in price. Also show promoters should realize the general public doesn't want to hang out all day.or take a chance of game getting ruined. My only thought would be for the people running the shows to bring more of there own games that won't leave the show period.

$25 on a $1000 pin purchase , why would anyone leave a machine they just bought , If they are truly interested in making people leave the games till close make the penalty $100 or more

When you register a free play machine at Pinfest is it "per day" or are they looking for full 2 day commits? This was my first Pinfest and I'm looking forward to bringing my IJ for free play next year; hopefully with headphones so everyone can enjoy the PinSound re-orchestration. Ideally I'd have it there till closing Friday night; just not crazy about keeping it there all day Saturday and then having a long drive home Saturday night.