(Topic ID: 159407)

Allentown Pinfest harassment - never again


By Pinterest

3 years ago



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  • 167 posts
  • 80 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by TigerLaw
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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    There are 167 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
    #151 3 years ago

    I liked the show, don't change a thing

    #152 3 years ago

    Ideally a show is intended to be a way to show off your best games and play others' best games; a social event more so than a swap meet. As such it's a definite interruption to have someone take down a game in the middle of the show, stop the flow of an entire aisle for 30 minutes, then leave a big gap for the rest of the show. I understand and appreciate the rule that requires games to stay and be playable for the duration, regardless of whether it is sold or not, even if it means a few less games will be there. The games are built to be on location for years, the assumption that they will be significantly damaged in a day or two of play, and with hoards of people watching out for abuse, is truly laughable.

    The problem with allowing games for sale is that you are guaranteed to run into issues every show where a buyer wants their newly acquired game to either leave right away, or be turned off, and that's why this thread exists. Yes, the games are the property of the owners, and it's impossible for an organizer to disallow sales during a show due to the nature of it all, but can you imagine a show with every single game for sale? Ugh.. I might suggest putting for sale games in their own corner of a show close to a back exit, and remaining steadfast that they need to stay for the duration of the show, that way if one needs to leave it won't be as big of a deal.

    #153 3 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    Ideally a show is intended to be a way to show off your best games and play others' best games; a social event more so than a swap meet. As such it's a definite interruption to have someone take down a game in the middle of the show, stop the flow of an entire aisle for 30 minutes, then leave a big gap for the rest of the show. I understand and appreciate the rule that requires games to stay and be playable for the duration, regardless of whether it is sold or not, even if it means a few less games will be there. The games are built to be on location for years, the assumption that they will be significantly damaged in a day or two of play, and with hoards of people watching out for abuse, is truly laughable.
    The problem with allowing games for sale is that you are guaranteed to run into issues every show where a buyer wants their newly acquired game to either leave right away, or be turned off, and that's why this thread exists. Yes, the games are the property of the owners, and it's impossible for an organizer to disallow sales during a show due to the nature of it all, but can you imagine a show with every single game for sale? Ugh.. I might suggest putting for sale games in their own corner of a show close to a back exit, and remaining steadfast that they need to stay for the duration of the show, that way if one needs to leave it won't be as big of a deal.

    I think it's safe to say that most of the pins at the Allentown show are for sale.

    #154 3 years ago

    Clearly the solution is for Ivan to purchase every game as they come through the door, and have a silent auction for each running the duration of the show.

    -2
    #155 3 years ago
    Quoted from luch:

    $25 on a $1000 pin purchase , why would anyone leave a machine they just bought , If they are truly interested in making people leave the games till close make the penalty $100 or more

    I won't even bring a game to a show with a penalty. If I buy a game and want to take it right away I won't pay a penalty even if there is one. As the buyer I never agreede to bring my game and leave it. The seller made that commitment, its not incumbant on the buyer to pay anything more than the selling price. If I was stopped I would get the police involved if need be. MGC does it well, you get an incentive to leave it, rather than a penalty for removal.
    Once a game is sold though the free admission for the original owner should be revoked and transferred to the buyer if they leave the game.

    #156 3 years ago

    I rarely post but here's my two cents. Great show. I'd like to thank Ivan for running and expanding Pinfest and I can't wait for next year.

    About me: I bring 10+ games from my own collection (TX Sector, Cosmic Gunfight, Earthshaker, etc) each year. My games are rarely for sale but I bring them because I like seeing people enjoy games which would otherwise sit in my basement getting very few plays. I also know the event rules. If I do sell the buyer can discuss paying the leave early fee with Ivan's people so but I strongly discourage it. If I buy a game it goes on freeplay for the remainder of the event. I should also point out that I'm always one of the last people to shut off/break down games at the end of the event. People paid money to play, I agreed to bring games for them to play, I stay until closing. Each show costs me about 100hrs of my time to prep/repair/load and at least several hundred dollars in gas, tolls, parts, etc., not to mention the truck and trailer to get it there, so I believe I've earned the right to speak up here.

    About this thread - Ivan's people: They are just that... people. They have good days and bad days. They get stressed when dealing with others who may be d-bags or who may be stressed themselves for any number of reasons. Does this excuse less than optimal behavior from either party? No, but how about a little understanding and forgiveness? I myself received a less than cordial phone call about a machine which had broken down but as soon as I mentioned that I was still working on the repair the 'issue' was resolved. The person on the phone, and I know who it was, could have had better communication skills (I believe this contributed to complaints by others) but it really wasn't anything to make a big stink about.

    About this thread - Event rules: The rules are posted. The rules exist for many reasons. The rules are probably intentionally simple but some people abuse them, or have unrealistic expectations, forcing Ivan to consider taking draconian counter measures. There will ALWAYS be exceptions no matter what the rules are and that's why we have adult conversations. For the most part though I don't care what show you go to or what the rules are, they're posted in advance and you agree to them when you sign up to bring a game and should be explained to the buyer when making a sale. If something's not clear to you then ask questions up front. Open a dialog with event management if you feel an exception to a rule is needed but you shouldn't feel slighted if they don't agree. If you can't comply with any of the rules then consider being a normal patron and leave your game home next year.

    About this thread - Games leaving early: I find it EXTREMELY aggravating that a machine, which could sit on the floor all weekend with no ill effects, gets turned off once purchased by certain people. What's so magical about you now owning the machine that you can't let others enjoy it for a few more hours? I'm talking about games which I've seen go into the parking lot and sit there on a trailer for the rest of the weekend, or simply left in place turned off. Hey, selfish person, how about throwing a bit of support back into the show since that's how we have a show in the first place! It's an expensive/rare game you say? Then perhaps it shouldn't have been brought in for freeplay in the first place. But it was, so leave it. Might something happen? Sure. I take that risk x10 each year but nothing significant has ever happened. Moving the game is riskier than leaving it in place being played for a few more hours. You still don't like the leave early rule but still want to bring games for sale? Simple, buy a vendor spot.

    About this thread - Expectations: Perhaps everyone chiming in on this thread should first consider what it takes to run a show, deal with all types of people, understand that there are always exceptions and unanticipated issues, and take a big breath before slamming anyone in a public forum (ha!). Send your comments and suggestions to Ivan privately, do all you can do to help the show be a success, and maybe consider that your view of what the show is supposed to be or should be might not be the same as others. Hot heads = bad decisions. Let it all soak in, put your thoughts and perspective into an email, discuss it in a month or two. Beers cold.

    The bottom line? It's Ivan's show, I thinks he's doing the best that he can, I'm grateful for his teams efforts, he's always trying to improve the show, I try to do my part for the sake of the hobby. We are extremely fortunate to have two quality pinball shows in this area and I look forward to bringing games to each of them for as long as I can.

    One last comment - I thought many more games were level / balanced this year than previous years. Thanks to everyone who brought games and took the time to set them up properly!

    Thanks for playing!
    Steve

    #157 3 years ago

    It's a shame that this thread came to be. I understand all sides of the discussion. I'm just glad I'm not in the middle of it. All I can hope is that one of the best days of the year for me will continue into the future. I really love the show and hope it only gets better. A huge thank you to all involved in putting on the show including the promoters, all who bring games for free play and to sell, all who run the tournaments, and all of the great vendors. I can't wait for Pinfest 2017.

    #158 3 years ago
    Quoted from pin64:

    I rarely post but here's my two cents. Great show. I'd like to thank Ivan for running and expanding Pinfest and I can't wait for next year.
    About me: I bring 10+ games from my own collection (TX Sector, Cosmic Gunfight, Earthshaker, etc) each year. My games are rarely for sale but I bring them because I like seeing people enjoy games which would otherwise sit in my basement getting very few plays. I also know the event rules. If I do sell the buyer can discuss paying the leave early fee with Ivan's people so but I strongly discourage it. If I buy a game it goes on freeplay for the remainder of the event. I should also point out that I'm always one of the last people to shut off/break down games at the end of the event. People paid money to play, I agreed to bring games for them to play, I stay until closing. Each show costs me about 100hrs of my time to prep/repair/load and at least several hundred dollars in gas, tolls, parts, etc., not to mention the truck and trailer to get it there, so I believe I've earned the right to speak up here.
    About this thread - Ivan's people: They are just that... people. They have good days and bad days. They get stressed when dealing with others who may be d-bags or who may be stressed themselves for any number of reasons. Does this excuse less than optimal behavior from either party? No, but how about a little understanding and forgiveness? I myself received a less than cordial phone call about a machine which had broken down but as soon as I mentioned that I was still working on the repair the 'issue' was resolved. The person on the phone, and I know who it was, could have had better communication skills (I believe this contributed to complaints by others) but it really wasn't anything to make a big stink about.
    About this thread - Event rules: The rules are posted. The rules exist for many reasons. The rules are probably intentionally simple but some people abuse them, or have unrealistic expectations, forcing Ivan to consider taking draconian counter measures. There will ALWAYS be exceptions no matter what the rules are and that's why we have adult conversations. For the most part though I don't care what show you go to or what the rules are, they're posted in advance and you agree to them when you sign up to bring a game and should be explained to the buyer when making a sale. If something's not clear to you then ask questions up front. Open a dialog with event management if you feel an exception to a rule is needed but you shouldn't feel slighted if they don't agree. If you can't comply with any of the rules then consider being a normal patron and leave your game home next year.
    About this thread - Games leaving early: I find it EXTREMELY aggravating that a machine, which could sit on the floor all weekend with no ill effects, gets turned off once purchased by certain people. What's so magical about you now owning the machine that you can't let others enjoy it for a few more hours? I'm talking about games which I've seen go into the parking lot and sit there on a trailer for the rest of the weekend, or simply left in place turned off. Hey, selfish person, how about throwing a bit of support back into the show since that's how we have a show in the first place! It's an expensive/rare game you say? Then perhaps it shouldn't have been brought in for freeplay in the first place. But it was, so leave it. Might something happen? Sure. I take that risk x10 each year but nothing significant has ever happened. Moving the game is riskier than leaving it in place being played for a few more hours. You still don't like the leave early rule but still want to bring games for sale? Simple, buy a vendor spot.
    About this thread - Expectations: Perhaps everyone chiming in on this thread should first consider what it takes to run a show, deal with all types of people, understand that there are always exceptions and unanticipated issues, and take a big breath before slamming anyone in a public forum (ha!). Send your comments and suggestions to Ivan privately, do all you can do to help the show be a success, and maybe consider that your view of what the show is supposed to be or should be might not be the same as others. Hot heads = bad decisions. Let it all soak in, put your thoughts and perspective into an email, discuss it in a month or two. Beers cold.
    The bottom line? It's Ivan's show, I thinks he's doing the best that he can, I'm grateful for his teams efforts, he's always trying to improve the show, I try to do my part for the sake of the hobby. We are extremely fortunate to have two quality pinball shows in this area and I look forward to bringing games to each of them for as long as I can.
    One last comment - I thought many more games were level / balanced this year than previous years. Thanks to everyone who brought games and took the time to set them up properly!
    Thanks for playing!
    Steve

    Well Said! Like I said in an earlier post - "I wouldn't want to be in Ivan's shoes". THANKS FOR ANOTHER GREAT SHOW!

    If you don't like the rules don't bring a machine to the show. It is really that simple. But if Ivan & his crew were not doing something right the size of the show would not have doubled in the past 5 or 6 years. I miss shopping the big outdoor flea market but as an indoor flea market vendor I must say if it was still outside only I would not be setting up. I hate seeing machines out in the weather when it isn't necessary!

    THANKS AGAIN to Ivan and all his guys for doing a great job overall!

    #159 3 years ago

    To the OP, sorry that you had a bad experience with he PinFest staffers. Try and think of them as people. People who have been working their asses of for days PRIOR to the event, as well as having to work post event.

    The Allentown show has always been one of the best shows. I hope that it continues on this path. I don't think that Ivan's idea of hiring armed thugs will help to make the show more enjoyable. Will the "security" keep people from selling items in the parking lot too? Because I can see many more people pre selling on PS because of it. Not a viable solution in my mind.

    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Please. Nobody 's game has EVER been damaged by a player at a pinball show. It just doesn't happen. and nobody says you need to bring the pride of the fleet, just a half-decent working game.
    Bringing a game to a show is a mild pain in the ass but it's pretty much what we do half the weekends of a year - move pinball machines around. I think most of us can do this without "breaking our backs."
    I haven't seen more drama queening or hyperbole in a thread in a while. And this is pinside we are talking about here.

    HA! Nice to know that your games have never been f-ed with.
    Still can't figure out who the hell would do something like this?(cost me almost $150);

    IMG_0172.JPG

    #160 3 years ago

    Things were a lot less tense 20 years ago when games didn't sell in the five figures. There is too much cash involved now to be really casual about a show.

    What it seems like is that the hobby has changed but the show runners haven't - they want people to bring their $5,000+ toys, leave them for three days to get the snot beat out of them, and want to fine them if they leave early.

    How about, instead of punishing the people that make your show possible, you make it *attractive* to bring your games? Prizes - real ones, not $20 throwaway garbage. Real incentives to stay the whole day/weekend.

    Remember, people who bring games are doing YOU a favour. Act like it.

    #161 3 years ago

    That's why Chicago Expo 2014 was great. The promoters paid a handsome amount for all of those quality EM's to be delivered & set up. Only hitch was that the guy who owned them wanted them out by Sunday morning which they certainly were.

    Quite a bit more than free admission or $20 per game. Nor "$20 throwaway garbage". Heh, I like that one.

    #162 3 years ago

    Moderators:

    Please close this thread - I received an apology and learned that Jim had taken two days of abuse from people for doing nothing more than asking them to pay the $25 early withdraw fee everyone knew would be owed to remove a pin early.

    As I said before - I can't blame Jim - I would likely not have the best attitude or believe people saying they intended to pay the fee either after hearing about the abuse he was subjected to.

    Jim - even though I didn't appreciate it at the time -- after exchanging PMs with you I want to say publicly how much I appreciate your volunteering time to help make the show successful for everyone. I know how hard the volunteers work supporting the show and that they do not get to enjoy it nearly as much as the attendees. Thank you for writing to me - I do appreciate it and hope to shake your hand, say thank you, and buy you a drink at Pinfest.

    Ivan - I know you care about the show or you wouldn't spend so much time, energy, and effort to put it on every year. It is important to note that this one incident did NOT ruin the show experience for me or my family we had a great time and the show was AWESOME!

    Thank you!

    #163 3 years ago

    Time to get rid of the early removed fee and just charge a $25 sellers fee for people selling there game in the free play area. Problem solved. You still get in free.

    #164 3 years ago

    What about like a deposit that you get back if you games stays until one of the designated removal times?

    #165 3 years ago

    Maybe change the thread title before closing this too?

    #166 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinterest:

    Moderators:
    Please close this thread - I received an apology and learned that Jim had taken two days of abuse from people for doing nothing more than asking them to pay the $25 early withdraw fee everyone knew would be owed to remove a pin early.
    As I said before - I can't blame Jim - I would likely not have the best attitude or believe people saying they intended to pay the fee either after hearing about the abuse he was subjected to.
    Jim - even though I didn't appreciate it at the time -- after exchanging PMs with you I want to say publicly how much I appreciate your volunteering time to help make the show successful for everyone. I know how hard the volunteers work supporting the show and that they do not get to enjoy it nearly as much as the attendees. Thank you for writing to me - I do appreciate it and hope to shake your hand, say thank you, and buy you a drink at Pinfest.
    Ivan - I know you care about the show or you wouldn't spend so much time, energy, and effort to put it on every year. It is important to note that this one incident did NOT ruin the show experience for me or my family we had a great time and the show was AWESOME!
    Thank you!

    See? I told you they're both great guys and would hug it out. Well done, gentlemen!!!

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