(Topic ID: 159407)

Allentown Pinfest harassment - never again


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3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by TigerLaw
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    There are 167 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
    #101 3 years ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    I can't stand when people start breaking down and taking games early from a show. It's not safe in a crowd of people and it's a buzz kill while the show is still going on. I brings free play games to almost every show I go to and I stay until it ends no matter how tired I am. That is the rule and the rule is the rule for a reason. If someone was to want to buy a game of mine, they need to leave it at the show until the very end or don't buy it.

    Well Said!

    People need to understand ---- GREAT SHOW needs games to stay. Otherwise it is just a free for all that will be gone in a few years. Ivan has things right and his guys are just doing their job. Try stepping into their shoes and dealing with all the BS and see if you are wearing a happy face at the end of the day!

    #102 3 years ago
    Quoted from too-many-pins:

    Well Said!
    People need to understand ---- GREAT SHOW needs games to stay. Otherwise it is just a free for all that will be gone in a few years. Ivan has things right and his guys are just doing their job. Try stepping into their shoes and dealing with all the BS and see if you are wearing a happy face at the end of the day!

    I could do it in a heart beat.
    This isn't the end of the world... It's entertainment, it's pinball...

    No need for someone working a show to be a jerk to someone who brought pins.
    Seek to understand...

    13
    #103 3 years ago
    Quoted from Trekkie1978:

    1 - Make the removal fee $150 to really help discourage people leaving with pins early.

    And enjoy your empty game hall. Who in their right mind would bring a game with that sword of damocles hanging over their head??

    Quoted from Ivan1496:

    Its clear that a more aggressive stance or excessive deterrent is in order. Things have gotten way out of hand. I’ve known this for a few years now. We will continue to adjust and plans are in the works.

    So your plan is more stick, less carrot? Good luck with that.

    #104 3 years ago

    Maybe there's just no honest solution.

    How about just "no removal before XX:XX PM" without listing a fee? I think this sounds a lot more stern than "leave your machine or pay this small fee", sure, some people will really need to go and will bring it up to the staff but I feel like the ones who really don't have to go will stay. The current thing almost sounds like an open invitation in a way, just as long as you pay. Isn't this what the York show does, just straight out "no removal machines until XX:XX PM" without listing any kind of penalty? Seems to work great.

    "Let's just get this machine loaded in my car early, might as well just pay the $25 on this game I paid $3500 for, why not?"

    vs.

    "I can't load this machine up yet, it's not allowed"

    #105 3 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    So your plan is more stick, less carrot? Good luck with that.

    Yeah, more carrots would probably be more effective for keeping game out on the floor. Maybe a raffle of some sort at the end of each day?

    #106 3 years ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    I can't stand when people start breaking down and taking games early from a show. It's not safe in a crowd of people and it's a buzz kill while the show is still going on. I brings free play games to almost every show I go to and I stay until it ends no matter how tired I am.

    Your dedication is admirable, but sometimes it's not just simple tiredness that forces people to leave a show early. Some simply can't stay to the very end, and some of those people may want to bring games. Would you rather have a game available for play at a show for 90% of the show's duration, or would you rather have that game available for 0% of the show's duration? Stupidly draconian removal rules will result in fewer games in the long run.

    #107 3 years ago

    Clearly carrots work best. Having a long patron after party on one of the nights of the show that is bracelet specific would work wonders I think, dramatically increasing the value of the free pass to an exclusive event.

    #108 3 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Your dedication is admirable, but sometimes it's not just simple tiredness that forces people to leave a show early.

    This is a good point. Lots of people, for example, are caring for their elderly parents and need the ability to leave early in an emergency. Having to pay $150 would mean these people would just not risk bringing a game.

    #109 3 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:Maybe there's just no honest solution.
    How about just "no removal before XX:XX PM" without listing a fee? I think this sounds a lot more stern than "leave your machine or pay this small fee", sure, some people will really need to go and will bring it up to the staff but I feel like the ones who really don't have to go will stay. The current thing almost sounds like an open invitation in a way, just as long as you pay. Isn't this what the York show does, just straight out "no removal machines until XX:XX PM" without listing any kind of penalty? Seems to work great.
    "Let's just get this machine loaded in my car early, might as well just pay the $25 on this game I paid $3500 for, why not?"
    vs.
    "I can't load this machine up yet, it's not allowed"

    I'm sure every average Joe consumer that just spent $3500. on a toy is going to want to see it trashed around by everyone that walks though. Nope, notta happaning. What happens if the board smokes??? Who's going to pay for that? A lot of buyers don't know diddly about repair. I think the big issue is a lot of free play games were brought with only intention of selling. There needs to more games brought by people that are not selling there games.

    #110 3 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    And enjoy your empty game hall. Who in their right mind would bring a game with that sword of damocles hanging over their head??

    So your plan is more stick, less carrot? Good luck with that.

    Don’t read too much into it. Our current plans/thoughts have technical challenges. Anything else is just a bit of spitballing. Surely you must see the conundrum in all this. I do nothing and show suffers the same fate as some others.

    #111 3 years ago
    Quoted from metallik:

    Your dedication is admirable, but sometimes it's not just simple tiredness that forces people to leave a show early. Some simply can't stay to the very end, and some of those people may want to bring games. Would you rather have a game available for play at a show for 90% of the show's duration, or would you rather have that game available for 0% of the show's duration? Stupidly draconian removal rules will result in fewer games in the long run.

    Those are the show rules. We know that going in. There is no taking games from the show early in the shows down here. To me it makes sense. You should not be moving pinball machines in a crowd. What if someone got hurt? Someone's kid got hurt? The show runners could get sued for all they are worth. In an extreme situation, sure let the game go. Other than that the rules are known up front. Can't stay the whole show? Don't bring a game. That simple.

    10
    #112 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Settle down beavis.
    I know who you are talking about. The curly haired guy. Yes he was a little intense but he has a job to do. And you started off on the wrong foot by wheeling your shit out before paying the fee or telling anybody.

    You have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. I did NOT wheel anything out - I just started taking the machine down.

    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Yes you are very offended at the "harassment" and your honor has been impugned but let's be real...if you had got that game out of there with nobody noticing would you REALLY have then sauntered over to the desk and volunteered the 25 clams? Come on man.

    I make my living managing multi-million dollar projects. A $25 fee is not a big deal to me. Questioning my integrity is. The real issue here is that the show management did not have appropriate coverage on the doors to protect the security of Pins on the floor AND to help discourage people from "sneaking out" - - which was never going to happen in my case. Finally - had the show communicated at any time the expectation one should go somewhere and pay the fee before starting to take a game down I would have done so - and indeed DID do so when curly came over and asked me to -- but because there was no plan on dealing with this (such as giving me a receipt or sticker indicating I had paid - I continued to be harassed.

    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    So anyway, you pissed the guy off. The was the time of the day where people were wheeling stuff out early left and right so his antenna was already up.
    This situation could have been diffused at any moment. When curly came over to you with Ivan you easily could have laughed it off and said "hey relax guys I paid let's go over to the desk and talk the guy I paid" and this all would have worked itself out. Instead you got defensive and things escalated.

    Again - you have NO IDEA what you are talking about - what you describe is EXACTLY what I did - but curly still believed I was lying to him.

    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Shit happens sometimes. Yes I know your precious honor was offended but is all this really necessary? The same thing happened to me. I sold a game, tried turning it off, had a little situation with curly but we worked It out. Not everything needs to be escalated and then brought here for the jury to consider. Seems like you were just looking for reasons to get pissed off and not bring a game next year. Re-read your original post and tell me you don't look like a screaming drama queen. It's too much man.

    Whatever - I don't need to justify anything to you or anyone else. The fact is that I paid to ship a machine to support the show. It was certainly not to save a $14 entry fee and I did not do so to have my integrity questioned by you or the pin gestapo.

    #113 3 years ago

    From a buyers standpoint. I can see where some first time buyers may be a little leery leaving the games on for free play, with the fear that the game may become damaged before bringing it home. BUT Most of these games have been played, nudged, etc. for more than a day by the time you purchase one on a Saturday afternoon for example. A few more hours for the sake of the show won't kill it. I like the idea of early removal fee being worked into the price though in case there are extenuating circumstances.

    SIDEBAR

    This was my first time at the Allentown Show and I really enjoyed it. Wish I would of went for 2 days. Especially when purchasing a machine. One day should be dedicated to business, finding/buying and working a deal out for the machine. The other to enjoy the show! I will be sticking to that plan next year.

    #114 3 years ago

    Heh, Pinfest Gestapo, I like that one...

    10
    #115 3 years ago
    Quoted from Gritty:

    I also had a run in with the curly haired guy. I traveled to the show with my 12 year old son to setup a game in the free play area. When I registered the game they gave me a wrist band for free admission and when I asked to pay for my sons attendance he told me my son would have to wait outside for a ticket until the show started. This was at 10am Friday and the show started at 12. When I told him I wasn’t going to send my son outside he got very abrasive and told me security was going to escort him out. I can understand they have strict policies around admittance but they should be able to pre admit/sell tickets to family members or helpers that come along to setup games. Friday was a nasty weather day and to make people wait outside for tickets that helped setup the show is stupid.
    All in all I thought this was the best Allentown show I have attended. One jackass is not going to deter me from attending or bringing a game again next year.

    Anybody saying my son would have to wait outside for 2 hours in shitty weather along with a nasty attitude would have me right in his face especially if he is brought along to help set up.

    I luckily (for him) didn't have a run in with curly. I have zero patience for power tripping people. We're all there to expand and enjoy the hobby.

    #116 3 years ago

    Clearly some discussion needs to happen between carrot & stick. Ivan brings us a great show & it gets better every year and these are some of the growing pains I guess. Hopefully some CONSTRUCTIVE community input is welcomed at that discussion.

    Personally I would like to see some incentives to keep the machines on the floor also. I would love to see a preview night type of thing for those who bring machines like other shows do, and/or a giveaway for machines that stay the duration.

    I would also like to say that I know Jim and he is a nice guy with a passion for pinball & I know he took some abuse also. These guys are putting in their own time off to make the show go. I'm sure they didn't get to play any pinball either!

    #117 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    You need to learn how to edit man.
    Congrats on the domino cool game.
    And I'm sure curly was doing just what he was asked to do - strictly enforce the rules. He was dealing with a machine trying to wheel itself out the door every 10 minutes by lunchtime so it's no surprise he was getting grumpy.
    I'll bring a game again, I didn't feel like the experience was a pain at all.

    You can enforce without being a d!ckbag. There are polite ways to explain the rules to people. Everyone are adults. He's been called out 15 times already on this thread and you are the only one really defending him. His behavior was inexcusable.

    #118 3 years ago

    As a vendor I will do about 5 to 7 shows this year. I can tell you from experience that Ivan runs a class act. Can Ivan and/or some of his helpers be a little friendlier? Perhaps, but most of us have no idea what it takes to put on a show like this. Not to mention the stress involved even before the doors open.

    Everyone should just take a deep breath and relax.

    #119 3 years ago
    Quoted from Daniml:

    Oh, and I forgot ... please provide suggestions for retaining pins till the end of a show!!!

    Have the swap meet and pinball fire sale on Thursday night (early friday morning till 1 hour before opening). Sell a buyers pass if need be for those not bringing a game but want in on setup hours to buy games. If you buy a game and don't intend for it to be at the show on free play you must have it out before open on Friday. Friday open till 8pm and Saturday open till 6 pm are a show. If you have a game in the free play area it has to be on and on free play and no for sale signage will be allowed. If you are bringing a game and it is in the free play area it is to share with others on free play. If you want to sell games to the masses during the show by a vendor booth. If you want to try and appease both crowds then machines must be on and on free play from Open till 8pm Friday, 6pm Saturday. After this time you can post a for sale sign on your game and or start breaking your game down for removal for the day. Have this clearly stated on the site and to anyone wanting to bring a game. And at check in (give everyone a rules flyer at game check in). If you can't/don't want to comply with it then don't bring a game. Save your 8 bucks and come and go each day as you please and make your dealings on your own dime out in the parking lot.

    #120 3 years ago
    Quoted from jGraffix:

    ...
    Everyone should just take a deep breath and relax.

    Too bad you weren't there to tell curly that.

    #121 3 years ago

    So I’ve spent the better part of my day reading and responding. I’ve done a lot of thinking about this issue and so many others. I think the best solution is for me to hire security to deal with all this. A lot of it! The battered looks on faces of my crew are something I never want to see again. These guys aren’t just help they’re my friends. I’d like to keep it that way. They and I had a particularly tuff time this year. I think its best that Pinfest staff stay out of it altogether. We really don’t want to deal with it anyway. We wish to maintain the reputation for being a courteous and helpful staff.

    This won’t be cheap and I’m not paying for it, the community is. You can expect admission, early withdraw, vendor and flea market fees to increase to cover the costs of security. You should expect that security to be there on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. You deal with them. We will do our part to make sure everyone understands the rules. There should be no more excuses. Its my hope that the increases will be modest as I’m burdening everyone with the cost. For most of you it won’t be a problem. For some, it might, I apologize.

    #122 3 years ago
    Quoted from Colehvac1:

    This thread should be closed by the mods, this is the type of crap that needs to end here on pinside. There is nothing productive that can come of this thread . Ivan hope to see you at pintastic, drinks are on me. Thanks for the great show, I will be there next year, already counting the days, and tuning the machines.
    Yours truly,
    The Pitbull

    While I agree that the thread has certainly gotten off course -- I completely disagree with YOUR call to the ops to close this thread because "nothing productive that can come of it".

    There IS something positive that can and HAS come from this discussion.

    Ivan (who I do not know personally) was made aware of this situation. It has sparked discussions on improving the organization, management, and security of pins in the freeplay area of the show next year.

    It should not have been necessary for Cougtv to act in the capacity as the "pin gestapo" - this situation can be easily avoided in the future with a few simple changes to managing expectations and rules of operations.

    Specifically -- Communicate the expectations in writing on sign up that:

    1. Machine serial numbers should be recorded on all show signups & paperwork for positive identification.
    2. Machines are not to be shut down in free play until the fee is paid.
    3. No Pins may leave the show at any time without a Neon colored sticker/receipt/whatever identifying the owner, title, and serial number.
    4. Show security should be placed at ALL doors to ensure that people leaving with pins are authorized to do so.
    5. Using a receipt/sticker/whatever will also improve the security of pins leaving the show.
    6. Dealers also need to provide the Neon sticker/receipt/whatever with serials to the persons who have purchased pins from them to allow them to leave.

    Cougtv apologized about how he came off and I appreciated hearing about his show experience from HIS perspective. I genuinely hope that he does not quit generously volunteering his time to the community as a result of how he was treated by many of the free play participants. Having also volunteered my time at pin events, I appreciate the generosity of those involved in making the show a success. As Beezle mentioned earlier - cougtv is a good guy - it sounds like he was just put in an impossible situation and I just happened to be the last person he dealt with on Saturday after a LONG couple of days of people abusing him, telling him to F-Off, and being generally rude to him.

    I am changing the title of the post and leaving it up to Ivan whether he believes the thread should be closed or if further discussion is beneficial.

    #123 3 years ago
    Quoted from John_I:

    Those are the show rules. We know that going in. There is no taking games from the show early in the shows down here. To me it makes sense. You should not be moving pinball machines in a crowd. What if someone got hurt? Someone's kid got hurt? The show runners could get sued for all they are worth. In an extreme situation, sure let the game go. Other than that the rules are known up front. Can't stay the whole show? Don't bring a game. That simple.

    John-

    You make some excellent points. Although I was EXTREMELY careful when moving that pin out of the event - I was still really concerned that someone could step back into the machine or a child could run in front of me while I was wheeling it out of the event. I purposely took the long way around to avoid missing as much of the crowd as possible. I didn't like doing it at all for the same reasons you mentioned.

    I realize I may get thumbed down for saying so, however, I would go as far as to say I lean toward not allowing pins to leave at all before the close of business to the public each day just for safety reasons. I have attended many other trade shows where moving items on the show floor was not allowed for safety reasons.

    For the record, I never had any issues with the rules or the fees - just how they were enforced. I still believe that some simple changes to managing bringing pins in and out of shows would go a long way to averting the need to increase security costs.

    15
    #124 3 years ago
    Quoted from Ivan1496:

    So I’ve spent the better part of my day reading and responding. I’ve done a lot of thinking about this issue and so many others. I think the best solution is for me to hire security to deal with all this. A lot of it! The battered looks on faces of my crew are something I never want to see again. These guys aren’t just help they’re my friends. I’d like to keep it that way. They and I had a particularly tuff time this year. I think its best that Pinfest staff stay out of it altogether. We really don’t want to deal with it anyway. We wish to maintain the reputation for being a courteous and helpful staff.
    This won’t be cheap and I’m not paying for it, the community is. You can expect admission, early withdraw, vendor and flea market fees to increase to cover the costs of security. You should expect that security to be there on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. You deal with them. We will do our part to make sure everyone understands the rules. There should be no more excuses. Its my hope that the increases will be modest as I’m burdening everyone with the cost. For most of you it won’t be a problem. For some, it might, I apologize.

    So, since the stick didn't work (ie, early removal fees), you're thinking about getting a bigger stick?

    Honestly, to me, this sounds like the wrong direction to go.

    If you want people to stay, come up with reasons for them to want to stay longer, and not put the place into lockdown in order to keep people from leaving if they want to.

    The reason why people are leaving is that there are no incentives to stay. They play a few pins, they do their buying and selling, they catch up with fellow hobbyists, and then they're done for the day and are ready to go off and do something else.

    Add perks, incentives, and other side activities, and they will likely want to stick around longer. It would probably be less expensive in the long run than hiring a whole crew of security guards who won't add anything to the show experience. I can only imagine the complaints that would roll in if there was suddenly a big security presence there and not much else about the show changed.

    #125 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinterest:

    I still believe that some simple changes to managing bringing pins in and out of shows would go a long way to averting the need to increase security costs.

    Maybe have a clearly marked staging area marked off with red tape and/or signage for breaking down or setting up pins?

    [edit]: then again, this might not work since a lot of folks use a hand truck to move pins. You can't really use a hand truck to move a pin around after it has been set up. So, maybe a few pin carts?

    #126 3 years ago

    Insisting that people keep games out until the very end of the show just reduces the pool of people willing to bring games. I really think you should go the other way. Have a best-of contest with a number of good prizes, game must be present at end to be considered. Maybe try a system where folks get no discount this year, but get free tickets for next year when their game stays til the end. Repeat each show and people who bring games will always get in for free, but only if they stick around each year.

    There's just too many reasons someone may have to bail early to make early removal completely verboten.

    #127 3 years ago

    with all of this nonsense, maybe i wont go next year. easier to stay home and play my pins

    #128 3 years ago

    Doesn't TPF have a NIB raffle for those who leave their pin setup in the free play area for the entire show? Other than the obvious high cost of implementing it seems like it would be a great incentive. I'd stick around for that.

    #129 3 years ago
    Quoted from Ivan1496:

    So I’ve spent the better part of my day reading and responding. I’ve done a lot of thinking about this issue and so many others. I think the best solution is for me to hire security to deal with all this. A lot of it! The battered looks on faces of my crew are something I never want to see again. These guys aren’t just help they’re my friends. I’d like to keep it that way. They and I had a particularly tuff time this year. I think its best that Pinfest staff stay out of it altogether. We really don’t want to deal with it anyway. We wish to maintain the reputation for being a courteous and helpful staff.
    This won’t be cheap and I’m not paying for it, the community is. You can expect admission, early withdraw, vendor and flea market fees to increase to cover the costs of security. You should expect that security to be there on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. You deal with them. We will do our part to make sure everyone understands the rules. There should be no more excuses. Its my hope that the increases will be modest as I’m burdening everyone with the cost. For most of you it won’t be a problem. For some, it might, I apologize.

    This is the opposite of a proper response. The right response would have been, I will speak with my guys about their demeanor and ensure that everyone is treated with respect. You are going to hire "security" for a pinball show? Lol. You are getting candid feedback as to the attitude of your staff and your first idea isn't to say "I will speak with them to ensure people are treated respectfully so everyone can have a good time", it's "I'm going to hire security to maintain order"

    Way to miss the boat entirely on that one.

    This show isn't long for this world.

    -3
    #130 3 years ago

    Threads like this aren't productive, if you wanted to complain about something that upset you just pm Ivan and let him know. Bashing the show and the volunteers in a public forum is not productive. I will be at the show again next year to support Ivan and the show. I will also continue to go to the Pinfest website, read the rules and follow them, this year I was unsure of a rule of the show, I went to the website, called the number listed. Ivan picked up the phone, answered my question, it was really that easy.

    #131 3 years ago

    Pintastic 2016 is having a "Thank-You" Raffle for all machines still on Free Play (and good working order) at 8:00p on Sat. The prize is a $4500 VPCab!

    #132 3 years ago

    Hiring extra security and raising fees is about the most ridiculous way to respond to a few minor issues created by a few selfish assholes. Way to ruin a show for everyone. I didn't think there were too many problems. You want to see more games? Get there earlier. People can't be expected to leave an expensive machine on the floor after they purchased it, if they haven't already decided to be generous enough to bring a game for free play in the first place. Pay the damn $25 and get it out. What's the big deal? Maybe cut the admission fee in half after the day is 1/2 over. Give those who bring the games more incentive. I thought this was already figured out, now it sounds like we'll be entering a maximum security prison next year with zero tolerance for having fun and a bunch of power tripping pigs chasing everyone around.

    #133 3 years ago
    Quoted from Ivan1496:

    This won’t be cheap and I’m not paying for it, the community is. You can expect admission, early withdraw, vendor and flea market fees to increase to cover the costs of security. You should expect that security to be there on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. You deal with them.

    That's definitely the way I would handle things. Higher costs and more police. Works for the government.

    Sounds like the fun is going to go right out the window.

    Quoted from Ivan1496:

    We really don’t want to deal with it anyway.

    If you can't or don't want to deal with the pressure, throw in the towel. I'm sure someone would like to step in and pocket the cash generated by the show. Admission fees, vendor fees, early withdraw fees.....It's obviously generating revenue for you.

    Don't get me wrong, I had a great time at the show, but your response was extremely crass and very standoffish.

    #134 3 years ago

    How to keep them on the floor? Offer a real incentive to bring good, clean working machines. Pay people $100.00 (or something along that line) per machine . Machine must be up & running at least 80% of the time. Record info when brought in and when game leaves, assuming it is there for the agreed on time; pay the owner upon their exit with the machine(s).

    Hire the goons you wanted for security to monitor status of them working. They can call/text the owner with malfunction updates. Heck, hire a hot model in a cute outfit to do it. That way the attendees will clamor to report problems to her. Might even increase attendance as half never get the chance to or have the balls to talk to a hottie, except at gentlemen's clubs and cat houses.

    #135 3 years ago

    It was really the pure lack of respect for those who hauled some really nice games to the show in the pouring rain. You just don't talk to people that way. this show has been going on for years so you can't tell me that anything new happened this year than last.. I was approached by Curley twice and on both occasions his demeanor towards me was disrespectful and one of those times was at 10 am in the morning and I was still setting up my games!

    I look forward to the show every year and have been bringing at least one game each year. Stricter rules won't discourage my attendance but it will impact the quantity and QUALITY of game I bring in the future.

    All in all I was more upset that Bada Bing ran out of food !!! WTF!

    #136 3 years ago

    incentives always work better than sticks, esp when your sticks are silly. Like anyone is really EVER going to stop someone form removing their own machine from any show at any time.

    Good way to sink a show completely if you start having some beefy security roidboy yelling at people that they cant remove machines; machines they own and brought to your show so you could then make money off the show. LOL, what the hell is it with some show organizers...

    #137 3 years ago

    I had an appointment with a seller of some parts I needed a few hours north of the show Saturday afternoon and had to leave with a pin I bought from the freeplay area around 2:30 to make that appointment.
    I borrowed a pin cart to safely wheel the fully assembled game out to a wide open area in front of the garage doors to safely break it down there. Paid my $25 fee and no issues.

    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Maybe have a clearly marked staging area marked off with red tape and/or signage for breaking down or setting up pins?
    [edit]: then again, this might not work since a lot of folks use a hand truck to move pins. You can't really use a hand truck to move a pin around after it has been set up. So, maybe a few pin carts?

    #138 3 years ago

    I fear the same thing. We already have a creeping burgeoning police state out in the world around us, why bring it into a pinball show which is supposed to be fun?

    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    That's definitely the way I would handle things. Higher costs and more police. Works for the government.
    Sounds like the fun is going to go right out the window.

    If you can't or don't want to deal with the pressure, throw in the towel. I'm sure someone would like to step in and pocket the cash generated by the show. Admission fees, vendor fees, early withdraw fees.....It's obviously generating revenue for you.
    Don't get me wrong, I had a great time at the show, but your response was extremely crass and very standoffish.

    -14
    #139 3 years ago
    Quoted from Pinterest:

    You have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. I did NOT wheel anything out - I just started taking the machine down.

    I make my living managing multi-million dollar projects. A $25 fee is not a big deal to me. Questioning my integrity is. The real issue here is that the show management did not have appropriate coverage on the doors to protect the security of Pins on the floor AND to help discourage people from "sneaking out" - - which was never going to happen in my case. Finally - had the show communicated at any time the expectation one should go somewhere and pay the fee before starting to take a game down I would have done so - and indeed DID do so when curly came over and asked me to -- but because there was no plan on dealing with this (such as giving me a receipt or sticker indicating I had paid - I continued to be harassed.

    Again - you have NO IDEA what you are talking about - what you describe is EXACTLY what I did - but curly still believed I was lying to him.

    Whatever - I don't need to justify anything to you or anyone else. The fact is that I paid to ship a machine to support the show. It was certainly not to save a $14 entry fee and I did not do so to have my integrity questioned by you or the pin gestapo.

    You manage multimillion dollar projects yet you can't manage a simple social interaction with a stressed out guy trying to keep games on the floor and enforce the rules. And you tried to skip out on a $25 fee.

    Boom! Integrity questioned and honor impugned!

    #140 3 years ago
    Quoted from Trekkie1978:

    Here's a couple ideas for the show next year.
    1 - Make the removal fee $150 to really help discourage people leaving with pins early.
    2 - Hand out a rules flyer to everyone when they get the wristband put on.
    3 - Change it that only staff can move games in and out of the floor during show hours. Maybe extra security is needed for this.
    Lastly, if adding these to the rules causes the prices to go from $17 up to $20 or even $25, I can't imagine that having any impact on attendance. I can only speak for myself when I say this, but if the fee to get in were $50, I'd still pay it...but I wouldn't go on Friday and Saturday, like I did this year.

    I have to agree with others that these are all terrible ideas.

    I'm not bringing any games to the show if I'm not the one handling them and nobody else will either.

    #141 3 years ago

    I would not bring a game of mine to any show. There is no way to keep it from getting damaged between transporting it both ways and with people playing them, especially some people that get downright brutal with the machine. I don't understand why you would want to break your back and risk damage just to get a free pass into the show. If you have a nice machine and want to sell it Pinside is a great place to do so.

    #142 3 years ago

    I was thinking that prizes would be cheaper than security. With an estimated 3000 people coming to the show, I would want to maximize the time that games are there. Incentives do that. Penalties make you want to not bring your machines.

    http://www.mcall.com/entertainment/goguidestreet/mc-pinfest-allentown-fairgrounds-20160505-story.html

    #143 3 years ago
    Quoted from glasairpilot:

    I would not bring a game of mine to any show. There is no way to keep it from getting damaged between transporting it both ways and with people playing them, especially some people that get downright brutal with the machine. I don't understand why you would want to break your back and risk damage just to get a free pass into the show. If you have a nice machine and want to sell it Pinside is a great place to do so.

    Please. Nobody 's game has EVER been damaged by a player at a pinball show. It just doesn't happen. and nobody says you need to bring the pride of the fleet, just a half-decent working game.

    Bringing a game to a show is a mild pain in the ass but it's pretty much what we do half the weekends of a year - move pinball machines around. I think most of us can do this without "breaking our backs."

    I haven't seen more drama queening or hyperbole in a thread in a while. And this is pinside we are talking about here.

    #144 3 years ago
    Quoted from glasairpilot:

    I don't understand why you would want to break your back and risk damage just to get a free pass into the show.

    The concept is not to bring a game to get a "free pass", it's to bring games so there can be a show. I can understand why people would not want to bring games but if everybody felt the same way there would be no show, period. The ONLY way to guarantee a show year after year is to be able to provide a venue similar to the Ann Arbor Pinball Museum (VFW) that Clay runs. He owns every machine (200-300?) and has no need to depend on the generosity of others, even though he does allow it. But to be honest, this would be a pipe dream for most.

    #145 3 years ago

    Maybe if you plan on selling a machine, there should be a specific "discounted" vendor space bought. These spaces should be grouped together. And the machine should be on free play for attendees. But in this vendor area, the machine are free to come & go as pleased.

    The rest of the free play spaces should be for machines that are not for sale & need to stay for the entire show. Or if you want to make them available for sale, they still must stay the entire show.
    My 2 cents & suggestions.

    #146 3 years ago
    Quoted from Slogan1111:

    Maybe if you plan on selling a machine, there should be a specific "discounted" vendor space bought. These spaces should be grouped together. And the machine should be on free play for attendees. But in this vendor area, the machine are free to come & go as pleased.
    The rest of the free play spaces should be for machines that are not for sale & need to stay for the entire show. Or if you want to make them available for sale, they still must stay the entire show.
    My 2 cents & suggestions.

    I like this idea.

    #147 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Please. Nobody 's game has EVER been damaged by a player at a pinball show. It just doesn't happen.

    There's always a chance, but you rarely hear of it happening (and this is Pinside, so you KNOW we'd be hearing about it if it's happening). I've brought a total of 16 games to shows over the last 2 years. The only play-related casualty was a broken shooter knob on Congo.

    #148 3 years ago
    Quoted from Slogan1111:

    Maybe if you plan on selling a machine, there should be a specific "discounted" vendor space bought. These spaces should be grouped together. And the machine should be on free play for attendees. But in this vendor area, the machine are free to come & go as pleased.
    The rest of the free play spaces should be for machines that are not for sale & need to stay for the entire show. Or if you want to make them available for sale, they still must stay the entire show.
    My 2 cents & suggestions.

    I agree , it is a pinball show, NOT a garage sale.

    #149 3 years ago
    Quoted from Ivan1496:

    Thanks Skip, to too many snafus this year. We'll do better next year I hope. The early bird thing can't happen. I have enough problems. Thursday is for setup so we assist the vendors and those that need help with free play. Oh, sure we could make a killing with early entry. That's not my goal. I already have too many just hanging out and getting in the way.

    No offense intended or taken, but I would not necessarily say those people are "just hanging out and getting in the way". Most of them are there to pay your show participants and vendors hard cash for their pinballs. Without sales, vendors will not attend the show, period. Vendors are not museum curators. They are business people looking to make a buck to support themselves or their hobby. I know the show somewhat caters to the free play attendees, and possibly that's where your bread is buttered so to speak. But in my experience, without people who come and buy stuff, vendors won't continue to come and set up. And without vendors bringing lots of stuff to see and play, there is no show. So if people want to come early Thursday night or Friday morning and get first crack at what's being offered, what's wrong with that? You should encourage them. The more the better!

    Again, no offense intended or taken. The show was fun as always and generally well managed. But people have to make allowances for ALL of the participants. Those hobbyists who come Thurs afternoon, get hotel rooms, hang out all day and half the night - but also those collectors who can attend for maybe one day only, or maybe a few hours both days. Who are there to buy or sell a game or two, maybe some parts, but who have other priorities that have to be balanced and can't hang out all day. If you punish them with $150 early removal fees, they are just going to leave their games home and pay their $17 to get in. But I think that would be a very bad thing in the long run.

    #150 3 years ago

    I love Thursday set up, I bring games just for that in itself, interacting with the other collectors, talking pinball c'mon guys, for most of us this is a hobby, it's suppose to be fun. Ivan and the volunteers break their asses for the show. I'm not going to say the vendors don't make any money, but it's not enough to warrant coming to a show, the exposure the show gives is the real reason most vendor are there. Let's face it online sales are where the money is at for vendors, not brick and mortar shows. Think about the cost for a vendor to do a show, you have to get your booth, product, people all to the show from long distance, then there's the cost of food, lodging etc etc for most there's a small profit or break even only. This is probably why Ivan charges such a low cost for a spot in the vendor area.

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