(Topic ID: 62611)

All three pop bumpers are out.. Help?

By Choggard

10 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 130 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by dsuperbee
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Linked Games

  • Taxi Williams, 1988

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There are 130 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 10 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

That's correct. You need to make sure they are not staying locked on when the game runs. Staying on is bad news for the coil and driver circuitry, these are not designed to stay on for more than a moment. Flippers are different, there is special circuitry...a low power hold winding on the coil that takes over to keep the coil energized. Pops/slings and other coils don't work the same way as flippers.

Yeah I know, only one of the pop bumpers is freezing up like that.. I ordered that 7402 chip and figured I'd replace it.. All I have is a DMM to test with..

#102 10 years ago
Quoted from vectordreams:

If you replaced the 2N4401 at Q76 and Q77 then I would check the 7402 at U50. You will need a logic probe to check the pins. Unplug 1J19 as this will allow you to turn on the game without the coil locking on. If pin 1 is high as well as 2 and 3 then the chip is bad. If 2 or 3 are low then you have an issues further up in the logic.
Mouser Electronics has the chip and just search for SN7402.

Just replaced the 7402 chip and the coil is still locking up.. Damn.. Any thoughts? Thanks..

#103 10 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Remove the balls, turn on the game, and run switch edge test to make sure no switches are on. Manually activate the pop switches and see if they register in the test.
Now check Q77 output against adjacent Q69 (that's for one of the slings) If it is different, Q77 is stuck on. Check predriver Q76. Always good to replace these in pairs.
If still stuck on, backup to U50 test with a logic probe as mentioned before. You need to determine if the CPU is telling the pop to fire all the time or something else. Measure U50 pins 1 & 4 and compare to U45 pins 1 & 4. They should be the same. If different the problem is either U50 or something further upstream. If the same, there may be a passive failed in the transistor circuit, such as R102.

Did you verify your new transistors are still good?

Did you do the test around U50 above and look further into the transistor circuit as suggested above; e.g. R102?

#104 10 years ago
Quoted from vectordreams:

Which coil is locking on? I had the same issue with my Taxi a couple of weeks ago and it was the 7402 chip was causing the transistor to lock on.

Lower jet bumper number 21 according to manual..

#106 10 years ago

It could be the PIA 6821 chip up line. Without a logic probe it is hard to say where the problem is.

#107 10 years ago
Quoted from Choggard:

Just replaced the 7402 chip and the coil is still locking up.. Damn.. Any thoughts? Thanks..

This is the hazard of "shotgunning" repairs. It's a roll of the dice that more often than not is losing and costly. You might need to get someones experienced eyes on it.

#108 10 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

This is the hazard of "shotgunning" repairs. It's a roll of the dice that more often than not is losing and costly. You might need to get someones experienced eyes on it.

Chips and transistors are cheap...

#109 10 years ago
Quoted from Choggard:

Chips and transistors are cheap...

For some folks, boards are cheap too - that would save you time.

You've got options. You could order the next two or three parts upstream that you think might be bad, but what if the problem isn't a bad part at all? What if there is an open or short you cannot see visually? What if the problem is downstream? Might as well order those parts there too.

Best option: Use the money you would be ordering needless parts to get a logic probe (or a oscilloscope) Learn how to use electronics tools of the trade.

#110 10 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

For some folks, boards are cheap too - that would save you time.
You've got options. You could order the next two or three parts upstream that you think might be bad, but what if the problem isn't a bad part at all? What if there is an open or short you cannot see visually? What if the problem is downstream? Might as well order those parts there too.
Best option: Use the money you would be ordering needless parts to get a logic probe (or a oscilloscope) Learn how to use electronics tools of the trade.

As I said I will be purchasing a logic probe very soon and will hopefully learn how to use it. As you can tell I am learning how to fix machines. We all have to start somewhere.. Thanks for your help I really appreciate it..

#111 10 years ago
Quoted from vectordreams:

It could be the PIA 6821 chip up line. Without a logic probe it is hard to say where the problem is.

What PIA chip is running 7402 chip there are two 6821 chips.. U9 and U10..

#112 10 years ago

Maybe this will help:

SSx: 6821 PIA 7407 7402 2N4401 TIP122
---------------------------------------------------
SSa: U38 (pin 39) to U49 to U45 to Q74 to Q75
SSb: U41 (pin 39) to U49 to U45 to Q70 to Q71
SSc: U41 (pin 19) to U49 to U45 to Q72 to Q73
SSd: U38 (pin 19) to U49 to U45 to Q68 to Q69
SSe: U54 (pin 19) to U49 to U50 to Q76 to Q77 <---
SSf: U54 (pin 39) to U49 to U50 to Q78 to Q79

#113 10 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Maybe this will help:
SSx: 6821 PIA 7407 7402 2N4401 TIP122
---------------------------------------------------
SSa: U38 (pin 39) to U49 to U45 to Q74 to Q75
SSb: U41 (pin 39) to U49 to U45 to Q70 to Q71
SSc: U41 (pin 19) to U49 to U45 to Q72 to Q73
SSd: U38 (pin 19) to U49 to U45 to Q68 to Q69
SSe: U54 (pin 19) to U49 to U50 to Q76 to Q77 <---
SSf: U54 (pin 39) to U49 to U50 to Q78 to Q79

Which 6821PIA chip is this?

#114 10 years ago
Quoted from Choggard:

Which 6821PIA chip is this?

U54:

SSe: U54 (pin 19) to U49 to U50 to Q76 to Q77 <---

#115 10 years ago

Check your TIP36 transistors on the aux power board. I had a very similar issue happen with my earthshaker. I replaced the TIP102 and pre-driver on the CPU board with no change. Went upstream with the 7402 and 6821 chips..no luck. It end up being a TIP36 transistor on my aux power board. While you're at it, you might as well check the diodes on the aux power board at the same time.

#116 10 years ago
Quoted from IceCreamMan:

Check your TIP36 transistors on the aux power board. I had a very similar issue happen with my earthshaker. I replaced the TIP102 and pre-driver on the CPU board with no change. Went upstream with the 7402 and 6821 chips..no luck. It end up being a TIP36 transistor on my aux power board. While you're at it, you might as well check the diodes on the aux power board at the same time.

Thanks.. I'll check those tonight..

#117 10 years ago
Quoted from IceCreamMan:

Check your TIP36 transistors on the aux power board. I had a very similar issue happen with my earthshaker. I replaced the TIP102 and pre-driver on the CPU board with no change. Went upstream with the 7402 and 6821 chips..no luck. It end up being a TIP36 transistor on my aux power board. While you're at it, you might as well check the diodes on the aux power board at the same time.

Thanks.. I'll check those tonight..

#118 10 years ago
Quoted from IceCreamMan:

Check your TIP36 transistors on the aux power board. I had a very similar issue happen with my earthshaker. I replaced the TIP102 and pre-driver on the CPU board with no change. Went upstream with the 7402 and 6821 chips..no luck. It end up being a TIP36 transistor on my aux power board. While you're at it, you might as well check the diodes on the aux power board at the same time.

I don't think there is a TIP36 to control special solenoid SSe on the aux power driver. If SSe is considered special solenoid number 5, I don't see a transistor for it on the aux power driver schematics. Not at my game now to check for certain.

#119 10 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

I don't think there is a TIP36 to control special solenoid SSe on the aux power driver. If SSe is considered special solenoid number 5, I don't see a transistor for it on the aux power driver schematics. Not at my game now to check for certain.

Yeah I don't see that either on power supply..

#120 10 years ago

Alright finally got it fixed today. Transistor blew again because on the leaf switch the capacitor and diode were touching plus the switch needed to be adjusted. One thing is I put a 23-900 coil in the game and during switch test I get an error, but during coil test and during game play everything works fine.. Not sure why that happens.. The original coil was 23-800..

Thanks everyone for all your help..

#121 10 years ago

I just read through this thread for the learning experience. I don't understand what you mean when you say that you get errors during the switch test. Switches either work properly, are stuck off, or are stuck on, right? Which one?

#122 10 years ago
Quoted from Choggard:

Alright finally got it fixed today. Transistor blew again because on the leaf switch the capacitor and diode were touching plus the switch needed to be adjusted. One thing is I put a 23-900 coil in the game and during switch test I get an error, but during coil test and during game play everything works fine.. Not sure why that happens.. The original coil was 23-800..
Thanks everyone for all your help..

That error has nothing to do with what coil is in the game, FYI. The game cannot tell the difference between a 23-900, 23-800, etc...

#123 10 years ago

...and you're not going to notice a difference in a coil with 100 turns difference (900 vs 800).

#124 10 years ago
Quoted from dsuperbee:

That error has nothing to do with what coil is in the game, FYI. The game cannot tell the difference between a 23-900, 23-800, etc...

So what do you think would cause the error?

#125 10 years ago
Quoted from Choggard:

So what do you think would cause the error?

Exactly what error are you getting? What does it say exactly?

#126 10 years ago
Quoted from dsuperbee:

Exactly what error are you getting? What does it say exactly?

During a switch test I get error 21 on pop bumper but during coil test it works and during game play..

#127 10 years ago
Quoted from Choggard:

During a switch test I get error 21 on pop bumper but during coil test it works and during game play..

There is a distinct difference between getting this error in switch LEVEL or switch EDGE test. If the error happens in switch level, the switch is shorted/stuck closed or being reported as shorted. If the error is reported in switch edge test (switch name and number constantly on the display) you can be fairly certain that the problem is likely not the switch. (this is per the manual)

The switch plays no part in the coil test, so I don't understand how you are saying "it" works. The coils are instructed by the CPU to fire during coil test, totally bypassing playfield switch circuits.

#128 10 years ago

What switch is it that is getting the error? Is it the switch that activates the coil, or the scoring switch?

#129 10 years ago
Quoted from dsuperbee:

What switch is it that is getting the error? Is it the switch that activates the coil, or the scoring switch?

The arrangement you are talking about (early sys 11 prior to big guns) only the scoring switch can possibly report back to the CPU. The coil firing switch activates the coils transistor.

Taxi has the special solenoids under CPU control, only one switch is used which tells the CPU to fire the coil and score the points.

#130 10 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

The arrangement you are talking about (early sys 11 prior to Big Guns) only the scoring switch can possibly report back to the CPU. The coil firing switch activates the coils transistor.
Taxi has the special solenoids under CPU control, only one switch is used which tells the CPU to fire the coil and score the points.

Ahh. Did not know that! I was still assuming it had 2 like my HS.

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