(Topic ID: 322873)

All feature lights out on Bally Star Trek

By Pinslot

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Pinslot
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    There are 59 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 1 year ago

    Hi
    All PF feature lights are out. Everything else works.

    Voltages on BR board at test points 2 - 4 are within spec.

    I set the DMM to 20 V DC and get only 0.7 V at test point 1.

    Is this an issue with a BR on the rectifier board?

    Where should I test next?

    Thx in advance.

    Stefan

    #2 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinslot:

    Where should I test next?

    Check the feature lamp 10 amp fast blow fuse at F1 on the rectifier board.

    #3 1 year ago

    Thx. Done. It works. All fuses on the rectifier board work.

    #4 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinslot:

    Thx. Done. It works. All fuses work.

    If you measure about 7.8V AC across the "AC" pins of bridge BR1 and 0.7V DC across the "+/-" pins of BR1 then the BR1 bridge rectifier is faulty.

    #5 1 year ago

    Thx. Will check that later.

    #6 1 year ago

    I bought a new DIM and have 5v DC at Test Point 1, too.

    The test point on the light driver board also says 5V DC.

    Does this mean I can rule out the rectifier board as the reason the feature lights are all out?

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinslot:

    The test point on the light driver board also says 5V DC.

    That is 5V logic power for the decoder chips on the lamp driver board, it's not related to power for the feature lamps.

    Quoted from Pinslot:

    I bought a new DIM and have 5v DC at Test Point 1, too.

    How much voltage do you measure on the braid wire that connects to the base of every feature lamp socket? it should be around 6V DC.

    #8 1 year ago

    Thx, will do

    #9 1 year ago

    4.2 V DC.

    #10 1 year ago

    4.2V sounds unusual. Where are you connecting the black multi-meter to ground? Connect it to the ground braid strap running across the lower left side of the cabinet when measuring the feature lamp socket voltage.

    What happens if you connect ground to the tip lug of a feature lamp socket? Does the lamp illuminate?

    Lamp_Socket_Controlled.pngLamp_Socket_Controlled.png

    #11 1 year ago

    Thanks so much for your help. Yes, I was testing with the black probe in the ground braid strap on the left side with the DMM set to DC. The reading was between 3.9 and 4.2 V DC. The feature lights didn’t come on when I touched tip lug.

    I have a replacement MPU and tried it out on a whim, but no change. Game works perfectly except all feature lamps.

    Do you have any further ideas?

    #12 1 year ago

    I recently had this exact same problem on my Eight Ball. And of course, it happened during a tournament.
    After much schematics research and testing, here's what I did to fix it:

    Check for cold solder connection break on BR1.
    Reflow J1-1 and J1-8 on rectifier board.
    Repin connectors J1-1, J1-2 and J1-8 on the rectifier board.

    My tilt was not registering, and the credit light button was not working, also. For that:
    Repin J3-12(tilt) and J3-14(credit button) on the MPU.

    It's been working like a champ since.
    My poor connections on J1 at the rectifier board (and wiggling of that connector) had ended up causing a BR1 connection to come apart.
    So, verify that your BR1 is solid. Then your problem, I'd be willing to bet, is due to these connectors.

    Chears
    Enaud

    #13 1 year ago

    Thx! Now I have a plan

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinslot:

    The feature lights didn’t come on when I touched tip lug.

    The lights you tested this on are 100% working lamps and not blown?

    Quoted from Pinslot:

    Do you have any further ideas?

    The low feature lamp voltage suggests a possible rectifier board J1 connection issue as Enaud suggested.
    Post some clear pictures of the rectifier board J1 connector - let's see if it has suffered heat stress.
    BTW are the backglass feature lamps working?

    #15 1 year ago

    The BG Feature lamps are not working either.

    I probed several feature bulbs to rule out dud bulbs.

    #16 1 year ago

    The rectifier board is a repro from Pinled. When I bought it, It had a cold solder joint on the top left leg of BR 1, but I de- and resoldered it and it worked fine for 2 years.

    The connectors look pretty good. I hope you can see them from the pics.

    I almost certainly replaced the contacts on J1, as I nearly always do that when I buy a Bally EE.

    Is there a way to measure voltage from individual pins on a connector in order to identify where I‘m losing voltage?

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    #17 1 year ago

    You have 9 pins in your j1 connector and 8 pins on your board. The leftmost wire isn't connected to anything.
    At least that's how it looks in the one pic. I'd double check that, and get rid of the 9th 'rib' on the connector so it doesn't cause confusion.

    Make sure all the pins are going into the correct circuits.

    #18 1 year ago

    Well spotted, but that was just momentarily like that. They were definitely correctly placed before I turned it in.

    Quoted from Enaud:

    Check for cold solder connection break on BR1.
    Reflow J1-1 and J1-8 on rectifier board.
    Repin connectors J1-1, J1-2 and J1-8 on the rectifier board.

    As the rectifier board is only 3 years old the pins at J1 - J3 are still shiny so they are probably good.

    I found my old notes from the last time I repaired this game. I replaced J1 7.

    Question: is the next logical step to redo J1-1, J1-2 and J1-8 on the connector side OR should I suspect the rectifier board pins at those locations?

    Or something completely different?

    #19 1 year ago

    Pinslot - You asked about how to measure voltage at the pins - my method is this: Black lead to ground - use alligator clips on probe and ground braid to ensure a good connection. Put one end of another alligator clip on red probe, and the other end attach a leg of any resistor you have lying around. Insert the same leg into the back of the connector at the pin you want to measure. that way you are reading the voltage that the pin is getting.

    #20 1 year ago

    What exactly were you working on the game right before the problem occurred?
    Are you using LEDs or old incandescent lamps?
    When you wiggle the blue wire at J1-7 do the feature lamps come on?

    You need to measure the voltage going into the BR1 bridge and the voltage coming out.
    The problem is the big heatsink covering the bridges makes this difficult.

    You can try and measure the feature lamp AC voltage at the transformer if you are comfortable doing so. Set your multi-meter to AC voltage. Put one meter probe on transformer lug "13" the other meter probe on transformer lug "14". What is the reading?

    For everyone else's reference below, is a picture of the PinLED rectifier board per their website.

    RectifierBoard_PinLED.jpgRectifierBoard_PinLED.jpg

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    What exactly were you working on the game right before the problem occurred?

    I bought the game in 2019. It worked, but the slightest touch to the rectifier board caused multiple lights to go off or other major failures. As it was seriously toasty and had been repaired previously in a slapdash fashion, I replaced it with a brand new Pinled Board. I also redid J1 and probably the other connections on the molex connectors.

    The game, which was at my church till last month, worked perfectly until all feature lights stopped working. Since then I have done no repairs.

    #22 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinslot:

    The game, which was at my church till last month, worked perfectly until all feature lights stopped working. Since then I have done no repairs.

    Ok, just checking

    How about the other question: is it running LEDs or incandescents?

    From memory test point TP1 should measure around 6 volts. You measured 5 volts which is a little low considering no load and 4.2 volts on the playfield. Even if the playfield feature lamps had 4.2 volts, the feature lamps should still illuminate though they will be dimmer.

    You mentioned BR1 had a cold solder joint when you bought the rectifier board. Have you reinspected the soldering on the bridge incase other joints have since failed?

    BTW didn't I send you a ROM update a few years ago that speeds up the bonus countdown?

    #23 1 year ago

    The game is running normal incandescent lamps. You did indeed sent me the ROMs and I got them burned, but I must admit I have been too wary to jumper the MPU board (I’d probably kill it) so it’s still running the original ROMs for now.

    It’s difficult to make an optical check of the BR, but I found my notes from the time I initially installed the board and will check voltages at BR1 again.

    #24 1 year ago

    Thanks! Before I blow up the house, I want to check I really understand what you mean. Does my drawing correctly depict what you mean?

    Quoted from Billc479:

    Pinslot - You asked about how to measure voltage at the pins

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    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from Quench:When you wiggle the blue wire at J1-7 do the feature lamps come on?

    No. Wiggling does nothing.

    I measured AC from Lug 13 to 14. The reading is 8.3 V.

    When I was trying to find the fault when the board was new, I measured from Lug 13 to E10. I just did this now and it reads 8,3. Lug 14 to E9 also.

    #26 1 year ago

    This is the view of the back of the rectifier board. I know where the legs of BR1 are, but I don‘t know where to put the DMM probe to measure voltage going in and out.

    And should I be measuring AC or DC?

    I apologize for my extreme lack of knowledge, but I am keeping a record of this advice in case it Happens again.

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    #27 1 year ago

    Pinslot - put the probe on the other side of the resistor - you are just using the wire lead of the resistor as something to touch the back of the pin so you can read the voltage with the connector attached to the board.

    Also, it looks like a few of the wires attached to your rectifier board have poor solder joints - for example, the third one on the top has loose wire strands - this limits current (At a minimum).

    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from Billc479:

    Also, it looks like a few of the wires attached to your rectifier board have poor solder joints - for example, the third one on the top has loose wire strands - this limits current (At a minimum).

    I get that. I have a replacement cable harness, which I will install when I have a better soldering iron, but as it worked for 2 years like that, I feel a component has failed somewhere or a solder joint has cracked. I fear I don’t have the skills to find that fault.

    #29 1 year ago

    I did some online research and hope I did the measurements on BR1 correctly.

    + terminal to ground = 6,15 V dc
    - terminal to ground = 0

    Top left leg to lug 14 = 0
    Bottom right leg to lug 13 = 8,3 V DC

    Is BR 1 probably defective or is it more likely a solder joint at one of the legs of the BR is bad?

    Btw I did the resistor hack to measure voltage at the blue wire to n J.This was ca 2 V DC

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    #30 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinslot:

    I did some online research and hope I did the measurements on BR1 correctly.

    You didn't. Your DC + output is correct. The two AC terminals need to be measured with your meter on AC and the leads one on each of those terminals.

    The output being correct tells me that your input is OK. Your loss of voltage is farther down , a trace, connector, or some other wiring.

    #31 1 year ago

    I'm not sure if it's artifacts on your picture but the soldering on the lower yellow circled BR1 AC terminal doesn't look right. It kind of looks like the joint is cracked but hard to tell.

    Following on from what others have said, to test the bridge, set your multi-meter to AC voltage mode.
    Put one meter probe (doesn't matter which one) on either AC bridge BR1 terminal and the other meter probe on the other AC bridge BR1 terminal. You should measure 7.8VAC to 8.3VAC

    Next change the multi-meter to DC voltage mode.
    Put the black meter probe on the Neg "-" terminal of the bridge (which is connected to ground) and put the red meter probe on the Pos "+" terminal of the bridge. You should measure around 5.6VDC to 6.2VDC.

    The Pos "+" terminal of the BR1 bridge goes to connector J1 pin 7. You should also measure 5.6VDC to 6.2VDC at that pin. J1 pin 7 is where the playfield gets power for the feature lamps.

    Where you have soldered the Pos terminal of the bridge, I suspect maybe the board trace on the other side that goes to the connectors is not making contact with the bridge pin and could be where the connection is being lost. Just a guess.

    Be very careful with the rectifier board being dismounted that is does not short to the transformer or anything else.

    RectifierBoard_PinLED_rear.jpgRectifierBoard_PinLED_rear.jpg

    #32 1 year ago

    Thanks so much. This is really useful. Also to Slochar and Billc479.

    I followed your instructions and:

    I measured 7v AC across the AC legs

    I measured 5.99 V DC between the + and - legs.

    Between BR1 + leg and connector J1 pin 7, I measured 5.99 V DC

    What do you recommend as the next step?

    #33 1 year ago

    What quench said some of the connections look like they need to be resoldered.

    #34 1 year ago

    Ok, thx

    #35 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinslot:

    Between BR1 + leg and connector J1 pin 7, I measured 5.99 V DC

    Can you clarify exactly where you had the meter probes for this test?

    Since BR1 Pos "+" leg is a direct connection to J1 pin 7, the measurement *between* these two pins should be zero volts.

    So black meter probe on the Neg "-" BR1 leg and red meter probe on J1 pin 7 should measure 5.99V DC, same reading as when the red meter probe was on the Pos "+" leg.

    #36 1 year ago

    I did the reading exactly as you said this time and the reading was 0.6 V DC.

    (The last time I had the red probe on BR + and black on J1-7, which led to a reading of 6 V DC.)

    #37 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinslot:

    I did the reading exactly as you said this time and the reading was 0.6 V DC.

    (The last time I had the red probe on BR + and black on J1-7, which led to a reading of 6 V DC.)

    So this time with the black meter probe on the Neg "-" leg of BR1 and the red meter probe on J1 pin 7 you get 0.6V DC? If yes, then both of these quoted readings tell me you have an open circuit from the Pos "+" leg of BR1 to J1 pin 7.

    My guess is the open circuit is on the other (front) side of the circuit board where you soldered the Pos "+" leg. There is a trace from there to J1 pin 7 then down to J3 pin 6. Repairing this might be a challenge if you're not comfortable soldering or don't have the right desoldering equipment.

    If I may be perfectly honest, that trace is too narrow for the current draw of the feature lamp circuit. Next time you need a rectifier board consider buying from elsewhere. That trace might be ok for LEDs but not incandescents.

    RectifierBoard_PinLED_FeatureLampTrace1.pngRectifierBoard_PinLED_FeatureLampTrace1.png

    #38 1 year ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    My guess is the open circuit is on the other (front) side of the circuit board where you soldered the Pos "+" leg. There is a trace from there to J1 pin 7 then down to J3 pin 6

    To test that theory, could I “jumper” the leg of BR1 Pos + leg to J1-7 on the front of the board?

    #39 1 year ago
    Quoted from Quench:If I may be perfectly honest, that trace is too narrow for the current draw of the feature lamp circuit

    I agree. Do you think it is better to buy a refurbished original or a repro?

    Are there any repro boards you would recommend?

    #40 1 year ago

    Usually I say go for original boards, but in this case, almost all the repros are better. I use the nvram.weebly one, since I can get it as a kit. Might be expensive for you to get there so maybe go with one made in the EU?

    #41 1 year ago

    Alltek

    #42 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinslot:

    To test that theory, could I “jumper” the leg of BR1 Pos + leg to J1-7 on the front of the board?

    Yes, try it. Make sure not to strip the jumper wire ends too much to prevent bare wires touching things they shouldn't and try to make solid solder joints.

    #43 1 year ago

    Ok, thx.

    Alltek is widely available in Europe. Will it take the load of incandescent bulbs?

    #44 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinslot:

    Ok, thx.
    Alltek is widely available in Europe. Will it take the load of incandescent bulbs?

    I have Alltec boards in my Star Trek and have had no issues using 47 bulbs

    #45 1 year ago

    Great, thx

    3 weeks later
    #46 1 year ago

    Hi,

    I have bought an aftermarket rectifier board and wanted to install it today. I have a Third Coast Pinball rectifier board wiring harness so I wanted to use that, too as some of the original wires have been snipped very short.

    I noticed this: on my game the thick yellow wire is connected to E2 and Lug 12.

    Third Coast’s manual states it should go from terminal E2 to Lug 5 or 9.

    That is a tad disconcerting. (Everything else matches 100%)

    Which lug connects to E2?

    #47 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinslot:

    Which lug connects to E2?

    You must follow how your game is wired because you're operating on 220V mains supply (being in Gernamy?)

    Third Coasts recommendation is for the US who operate on 115/120V mains supply. Don't wire it this way.

    Follow the schematics. Thick Red wire to lug 1 on the transformer. Thick yellow wire to lug 12 of the transformer. Transformer lug 3 should be connected (jumpered) to lug 5.

    Transformer_220V.pngTransformer_220V.png

    #48 1 year ago

    Thanks! I am indeed in Germany.

    Where did you find that wiring diagram?

    I used google, but got so many irrelevant hits I gave up and posted here.

    #49 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pinslot:

    Where did you find that wiring diagram?

    Heh, it's in all the Bally manuals of that time. But for some strange reason that page is missing from the Star Trek manual on IPDB.
    It's on page 1 titled "INSTALLATION". For example you can see it in Playboy, Supersonic and other manuals of that era.

    #50 1 year ago

    Pull each wire out of the female housings and verify it isn't broken. You cannot tell if a terminal is broken by inspecting the outside. They may look fine like they are hooked in place on the housing, but may not be and even hooked may be busted on the inside making either no or flaky contact. I've been bitten by this.

    There are 59 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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