(Topic ID: 190650)

ALIEN REFUND? - From patient supporter to angry ex-customer - Poll


By PACMAN

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 790 posts
  • 136 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by MrBally
  • Topic is favorited by 16 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

Topic poll

“Will i get my money back from Highway Pinball?”

  • Yes - the hero investment club will make everything all better. 100 votes
    26%
  • Maybe - if they haven't spent it all already. 82 votes
    21%
  • No way - the sham has been exposed and the investor announcemnt is just to buy more time. 202 votes
    53%

(384 votes)

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There are 790 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 16.
#151 2 years ago

Please understand the present holistic state of the industry for the protection of personal interests.

This explanation excerpt example was posted later after I had already written the article elsewhere at the end of 2016 to assist others.
The danger signs were more than apparent, they were already existing.

Names can be easily identified to each of the described manufacturers below, including the one in question.
The decision to not provide direct names was purposeful, and make people think clearly, not an attempt to cloak something in clairvoyance.
Another company was completely omitted at the time of the information due to lack of viable planning for manufacturing, and remains somewhat nebulous at that moment due to lack of a construction contract.
Yet another company was omitted due to lack of reliable information on progress, so it could not be mentioned at all.
The term "manufacturer" applies to a company that has actually built something in the past and is still active, not wishful thinking.

I do not individually attack businesses or people, only try to provide information that assists other in making logical decisions.

Attempts to discredit other's historical experience out of fear or anger is another form of consumer denial, petty, and quite disturbing from the standpoint of the industry which resulted in this case many people losing thousands of dollars in less than a decade alone, and that is only considering the last seven years. I don't think it is fun to advocate people to make bad decisions. This is a time period when most on this forum where just beginning to enter the hobby, but it happened anyway.

Every time a person's decides to attack a long time pinball collector and historian, and there are only a small number of resources, they potentially lose a source of valuable knowledge.
Although sometimes pinball enthusiasts have short memories, the real danger is consumer acceptance that "everything is ok", and they fall into the lines of previous false beliefs, which is already occurring yet again.
Market sales is not the same as industry health, although the two are intertwined.
People need to understand the differences.

I have great disappointment that some will only learn the mistakes of the past from a single means, but people should still be aware and informed to make their own decisions.

#152 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

The number of personal attacks on people on this forum astound me... so much fricken drama!

Yes, isn't it awesome?? Was about time that this place lights up again, it got sort of boring lately

#153 2 years ago

I had a bad feeling about HW all along, FTH having sold in putrid numbers, and yet (people) were claiming it sold well.

I realize Pinside owners do not represent all the games in existence but they should represent some portion.

Full Throttle (owners) 39
Rob Zombie (owners) 153
WoZ (owners) 902

To me this company was always on shaky ground and took a chance on Aliens as a theme to try to grab extra pre-order money.

I wish everyone well, but I can not see the company surviving much longer.

a) have not delivered any number of pins yet (no proof of life beyond pre-order or bail out money)
b) have a pool of people who have been screwed over and want their money back
c) have a pool of people (that have not been screwed yet) but who can buy SW/AFM for the same money or DI for a bit more.
d) see above do not have a killer app meaning they have nothing that is proven better than SW, AFM, DI etc.
e) their ace int he hole (swap ability) no one in America really cares about.

#154 2 years ago
Quoted from KozMckPinball:

Maybe there's some value in the interchangeable playfield patent. I could see them licensing that technology but pinball is not a big enough ops business for that to be very valuable. I hope they make good on their promises, even could use Stern's manufacturing for hire to get them done.

Maybe in the rest of the world people don't have a lot of room (like they sell washer+dryer in one combo to save space) but in America with people having room, I know a guy with 50+ pins. So they don't want to pay 1.6x the price of a pin so they can have one set up at a time, they'd rather pay 2x the price and have two pins.

#155 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Maybe in the rest of the world (ROW) but in America with people having room, I know a guy with 50+ pins. So they don't want to pay 1.6x the price of a pin so they can have one set up at a time, they'd rather pay 2x the price and have two pins.

I live in America and virtually all the collectors I know are out of room, doesn't matter if they have 5 or 100 machines. They all buy to capacity or over. I was looking forward to paying much less for a second game without the cabinet that could be stored under the main game.

#156 2 years ago

I was going to buy Alien when it was shipping and in stock (not as a pre-order). Getting less likely now.

TBH I don't know how viable it is for these rich Euro dudes to manage a factory from overseas. Will they relocate? Also, they won't be injecting millions of pounds, so it won't be enough IMO. If they out-source the manufacturing to Stern or somesuch that might be viable, but little if any profit. Pains to say it, but the smart move would be to liquidate.

#157 2 years ago

I think the swapability is a neat concept, but one i doubt i would actually use. You still have to store a large box somewhere with the other playfield. I would never store that underneath as that would look terrible.

I honestly thought their cabinets looked like shit anyways.... sure it's great to try new things, but pinball has been around a LONG ASS time and the cabinet shape/design would potentially have changed if there was a good reason to.

i DID appreciate the full rails on the playfield, i like that very much.

Swappable flippers, who cares. Just sounds more expensive to me.

#158 2 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I live in America and virtually all the collectors I know are out of room.

I really find that hard to believe. I know a bunch of collectors and they all could fit more. Maybe California is different than the rest of America.

Also, how can someone with 5 pins be out of room? (where I live we have basements with basically 1000+ SQ feet that most people use for pins). I do have a second house in Florida (no basement) so I understand that no basements makes it harder, but when I do move to Florida, will upgrade to a house with a basement or a dedicated game room.

#159 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

I was going to buy Alien when it was shipping and in stock (not as a pre-order). Getting less likely now.
TBH I don't know how viable it is for these rich Euro dudes to manage a factory from overseas. Will they relocate? Also, they won't be injecting millions of pounds, so it won't be enough IMO. If they out-source the manufacturing to Stern or somesuch that might be viable, but little if any profit. Pains to say it, but the smart move would be to liquidate.

Sure but stern or whomever is going to build some different weird design. It would have to be re-designed to a more standard layout/format for manufacturing. They aren't going to retool everything.

#160 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Also, how can someone with 5 pins be out of room? That tidbit is suspicious.

Cuz my wife says i can't have more...

#161 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

Cuz my wife says i can't have more...

out of room (resized).jpg

#162 2 years ago

wearing-the-pants (resized).jpg

#163 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

Also, they won't be injecting millions of pounds, so it won't be enough IMO.

None of us have any idea how much they are willing to inject. The game is 97% done (according to insiders). Cash and it gets built and shipped. It's not rocket science at this stage of the game. Again...we've seen this work at JJP.

Quoted from rai:

do not have a killer app meaning they have nothing that is proven better than SW, AFM, DI etc.

Proven? No. But everything points to it potentially being a better game than AFM or SW. How are we even comparing SW here? We have not even seen gameplay footage yet...talk about unproven.

#164 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Proven? No. But everything points to it potentially being a better game than AFM or SW. How are we even comparing SW here? We have not even seen gameplay footage yet...talk about unproven.

Stern has likely sold more SW pins in the last 10 days than HW has sold in the last 4 years.

(I made that figure up, but bet it's correct). SW is probably going to sell at *least* as well as ST.

#165 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I really find that hard to believe. I know a bunch of collectors and they all could fit more. Maybe California is different than the rest of America.
Also, how can someone with 5 pins be out of room? (where I live we have basements with basically 1000+ SQ feet that most people use for pins). I do have a second house in Florida (no basement) so I understand that no basements makes it harder, but when I do move to Florida, will upgrade to a house with a basement or a dedicated game room.

Seldom see basements in the Bay Area where I live. People use their garages, living rooms, etc...

I have a game room that fits 5 machines and can fit 4 in my living room. Sure there is more space in the house but I think my wife is being generous as it is.

I have 20 more games soldiered in the garage and 10 more scattered at friends homes. Yes, I have a sickness.

A friend has over 100 games. He built a large structure to house them and is out of room.

Again, most of the collectors I know have reached the one out for one in phase, either due to physical limitations or "must get along with wife".

#167 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Stern has likely sold more SW pins in the last 10 days than HW has sold in the last 4 years.
(I made that figure up, but bet it's correct). SW is probably going to sell at *least* as well as ST.

Sure...I can agree with that. Doesn't mean it's a better game or that Heighway can't eventually sell a lot of Aliens.

#168 2 years ago

There is significant value in the game as it is now - basically done minus a few fixes and code bits. There is also value in the Heighway Pinball system, although the finished Alien game is the biggest prize. JJP has sold over 2K WOZ's, so it's not too farfetched to think there is a market for 2K Alien games. If they could produce these games at an average $1500 profit each (conservative guess: 5000 to make, 6500 to sell), that is $3 million on Alien alone.

The fact the game is basically DONE really helps the chance that the company can be saved.

#169 2 years ago

I think it's very far fetched - did the game even sell out of le's before the crap hit the fan?

#170 2 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

Seldom see basements in the Bay Area where I live. People use their garages, living rooms, etc...
I have a game room that fits 5 machines and can fit 4 in my living room. Sure there is more space in the house but I think my wife is being generous as it is.
I have 20 more games soldiered in the garage and 10 more scattered at friends homes. Yes, I have a sickness.
A friend has over 100 games. He built a large structure to house them and is out of room.
Again, most of the collectors I know have reached the one out for one in phase, either due to physical limitations or "must get along with wife".

(Sorry I am reacting to the same post the quoted response was reacting to )

Does Florida do basements? I don't think you'll find too many there. Luckily land is pretty affordable.

I live in DC where space is a premium. We have 4 pins. I would like a 5th (yeh and 6th, 7th, etc) but the space is unusable and I refuse to put a pin on my main floor. We are also art collectors and .. well as awesome as Zombie Yeti is, that side art can clash with the Ziegler.

#171 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Does Florida do basements?

It all depends on the water tables and if you can elevate the structure so you don't dog and get water. Also, sewage system levels/height has to be considered.

#172 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

(Sorry I am reacting to the same post the quoted response was reacting to )
Does Florida do basements? I don't think you'll find too many there. Luckily land is pretty affordable.
I live in DC where space is a premium. We have 4 pins. I would like a 5th (yeh and 6th, 7th, etc) but the space is unusable and I refuse to put a pin on my main floor. We are also art collectors and .. well as awesome as Zombie Yeti is, that side art can clash with the Ziegler.

Same no pins anywhere but the basement bar room..

We collect Peter Lik's...

#173 2 years ago

I've found a few houses in Florida with basements. When I do make my final retirement house move to FL, I'll either have a basement or a guesthouse for pins and my home theater.

#174 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I've found a few houses in Florida with basements. When I do make my final retirement house move to FL, I'll either have a basement or a guesthouse for pins and my home theater.

They don't do basements in Florida since the ground is basically saturated.. the whole state is a sponge, at sea level. Lookup Florida cave diving where people just scuba dive random freshwater springs.

#175 2 years ago

Very Rare for basements here....but with home choices still in the $75 + per sq ft, plenty of space.....for the money

#176 2 years ago

Florida homes only have a basement if you're over a sink hole. Never a good thing.

#177 2 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Please understand the present holistic state of the industry for the protection of personal interests.
This explanation excerpt example was posted later after I had already written the article elsewhere at the end of 2016 to assist others.
The danger signs were more than apparent, they were already existing.
Names can be easily identified to each of the described manufacturers below, including the one in question.
The decision to not provide direct names was purposeful, and make people think clearly, not an attempt to cloak something in clairvoyance.
Another company was completely omitted at the time of the information due to lack of viable planning for manufacturing, and remains somewhat nebulous at that moment due to lack of a construction contract.
Yet another company was omitted due to lack of reliable information on progress, so it could not be mentioned at all.
The term "manufacturer" applies to a company that has actually built something in the past and is still active, not wishful thinking.
I do not individually attack businesses or people, only try to provide information that assists other in making logical decisions.
Attempts to discredit other's historical experience out of fear or anger is another form of consumer denial, petty, and quite disturbing from the standpoint of the industry which resulted in this case many people losing thousands of dollars in less than a decade alone, and that is only considering the last seven years. I don't think it is fun to advocate people to make bad decisions. This is a time period when most on this forum where just beginning to enter the hobby, but it happened anyway.
Every time a person's decides to attack a long time pinball collector and historian, and there are only a small number of resources, they potentially lose a source of valuable knowledge.
Although sometimes pinball enthusiasts have short memories, the real danger is consumer acceptance that "everything is ok", and they fall into the lines of previous false beliefs, which is already occurring yet again.
Market sales is not the same as industry health, although the two are intertwined.
People need to understand the differences.
I have great disappointment that some will only learn the mistakes of the past from a single means, but people should still be aware and informed to make their own decisions.

Did you really just quote yourself? Awesome! Lol

#178 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

final retirement house move to FL

me thinkin Hawaii...adopting the Pono lifestyle where less is more

Utopian pipe dreamish I know...but this consumerism way of life isn't healty

#179 2 years ago

I'm so jealous of the basement talk. In the UK land is at far more of a premium. In London it's insane. A cheap small 2 bed flat can now be around $400-$600k depending on location in the capital (and we're not talking about the posh areas but bog standard places) so anything that saves space is an attractive idea. As such space for pins is an issue. Theme and game play are still king but the idea of a modular system has it's attractions. If I'd gone down the Alien route I almost certainly would have added a TF playfield, not because I really like the game but because of the space saving (and lower initial costs). 5-6 modular titles available would 100% of caused me to buy in and probably pick up all the available titles. Presumably this is a similar issue in the bigger US cities.

I suspect it would of also seen me site a game. Slinging a playfield and panels into the back of a small car is doable. Lugging a whole game about isn't attractive.

#180 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

I've found a few houses in Florida with basements. When I do make my final retirement house move to FL, I'll either have a basement or a guesthouse for pins and my home theater.

Any pics, I'd love to see what a Florida home with a basement looks like.

#181 2 years ago
Quoted from PinBallMagician:

Florida homes only have a basement if you're over a sink hole. Never a good thing.

Haha... I can read the real estate listing now: "surprise Hidden basement"

#182 2 years ago
Quoted from johngravenews:

I'm so jealous of the basement talk. In the UK land is at far more of a premium. In London it's insane. A cheap small 2 bed flat can now be around $400-$600k depending on location in the capital (and we're not talking about the posh areas but bog standard places) so anything that saves space is an attractive idea. As such space for pins is an issue. Theme and game play are still king but the idea of a modular system has it's attractions. If I'd gone down the Alien route I almost certainly would have added a TF playfield, not because I really like the game but because of the space saving (and lower initial costs). 5-6 modular titles available would 100% of caused me to buy in and probably pick up all the available titles. Presumably this is a similar issue in the bigger US cities.
I suspect it would of also seen me site a game. Slinging a playfield and panels into the back of a small car is doable. Lugging a whole game about isn't attractive.

That's comparable to here in washington. There are crazy people here who are paying like you said - 4-600,000$ for a 2-bedroom condominium. That's barely 1500 square feet, 2 bedrooms, very nicely furnished "fresh and modern" and NO LAND whatsoever! It's like buying air! I don't understand that. Imagine how much a house costs though and for most people that's not an option; we are very very fortunate

#183 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

Same no pins anywhere but the basement bar room..
We collect Peter Lik's...

I wasn't familiar with the name, but I just realised I toured a gallery showing of his stuff in Sonoma a couple years ago, stunning photos - at the time wondered how far he has to get away from civilisation to capture those

#184 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Haha... I can read the real estate listing now: "surprise Hidden basement"

Its called the swimming pool.

#185 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Any pics, I'd love to see what a Florida home with a basement looks like.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/146-Mileham-Dr-Orlando-FL-32835/82108390_zpid

IMG_3137 (resized).PNG

#186 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I wasn't familiar with the name, but I just realised I toured a gallery showing of his stuff in Sonoma a couple years ago, stunning photos - at the time wondered how far he has to get away from civilisation to capture those

Most people have seen his stuff, but might not know the name. The shots are just stunning. We have a 1.5 meter one in the living room, it's a gorgeous attention piece when properly lit.

#187 2 years ago

Wow that place is gorgeous... that screen room/whatever is fricken amazing! probably need it to enjoy the outdoors in a swamp

#188 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

Wow that place is gorgeous... that screen room/whatever is fricken amazing! probably need it to enjoy the outdoors in a swamp

Keeps the gators out.

#189 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Keeps the gators out.

LOL, but yet probably true..

#190 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

Same no pins anywhere but the basement bar room..
We collect Peter Lik's...

Did you buy this $6.5M photo?

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/4546292607/peter-lik-s-phantom-photograph-breaks-world-record-with-6-p-5-million-sale

#191 2 years ago

Small world lol, this is a house my wife just showed me the other day to go look at during our house hunting adventures in Florida.

#192 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

Most people have seen his stuff, but might not know the name. The shots are just stunning. We have a 1.5M one in the living room, it's a gorgeous attention piece when properly lit.

Good lord, I bet! It's nuts to spend that kind of money (investment or not) and then not set it up for proper viewing

#193 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

LOL, but yet probably true..

Look at this

Also

IMG_3138 (resized).JPGIMG_3139 (resized).JPG

#194 2 years ago
Quoted from Potatoloco:

Small world lol, this is a house my wife just showed me the other day to go look at during our house hunting adventures in Florida.

Orlando has some really nice houses - one of my friends runs the Observer family of newspapers there and he lives in this amazing neighborhood. Really beautiful architecture. Who knew!

#195 2 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Look at this
» YouTube video
Also

can you blame the guy? Look at that meticulously kept green!

#196 2 years ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

Most people have seen his stuff, but might not know the name. The shots are just stunning. We have a 1.5M one in the living room, it's a gorgeous attention piece when properly lit.

!!!!?????

Wait a second... You have a 1.5million dollar photo in your house and you live in a house with only room for 5 pins?

I think we have to revoke your pinball club membership

Let's see a pic of this 1.5M photo!

11
#197 2 years ago

How does this relate to the thread topic?! WTF are you guys talking about?

#198 2 years ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Orlando has some really nice houses - one of my friends runs the Observer family of newspapers there and he lives in this amazing neighborhood. Really beautiful architecture. Who knew!

I bought last year didn't see anything with basement, this would be out of our budget as a second house but when we retire sell our primary house that would be what we're looking for.

Nice house but I didn't see the neighborhood.

#199 2 years ago

Back to pinball
IMG_3140 (resized).JPG

#200 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

!!!!?????
Wait a second... You have a 1.5million dollar photo in your house and you live in a house with only room for 5 pins?
I think we have to revoke your pinball club membership
Let's see a pic of this 1.5M photo!

LOL, the ones i have are not 1.5M One is worth about $30k now though.

The one my wife really liked was 100k, i declined to purchase that one...

I have plenty of room for more pinball machines, but i don't want to pack them all in and my wife wouldn't appreciate it. I refuse to have them anywhere but the basement, i don't care for putting them in the main living space like some people do. Sure I'd like more, but it's gotta balance with the space.

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