Alien Poker - Locked on Solenoid during tests.

(Topic ID: 228651)

Alien Poker - Locked on Solenoid during tests.


By drocelot

15 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 40 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by frunch
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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Williams_System-6-7_Driver-Board_schematic.pdf (PDF preview)
Williams_System-6-7_Driver-Board_layout.pdf (PDF preview)

#1 15 days ago

Hi All, I recently picked up a Alien Poker, I've changed the capacitors and updated the power diodes. Its now firing up nicelsy. However Fuse 2 will blow, this is associated with the Left Kicker Solenoid it will stay hard on when turning on. (This has now been resolved with replacing the 7402).

Now when I run the solennoid tests the left kicker will fire up and stay hard on and burn the fuse at F2.

I've changed the diode, the pre driver the driver, the 7404 and the 7408.

#2 15 days ago

Does it lock on at power up or when you start a game? If the former, it could be the pre driver or an ic controlling that. If the latter, check the switch.

#3 15 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Does it lock on at power up or when you start a game? If the former, it could be the pre driver or an ic controlling that. If the latter, check the switch.

Hi it locks as the game turns on, so within 2 seconds of starting the machine.

#4 15 days ago

Bad transistor on the driver board. Change out the pre-driver while you're there.
-Mike

#5 15 days ago
Quoted from Grizlyrig:

Bad transistor on the driver board. Change out the pre-driver while you're there.
-Mike

I went down and got some replaced the predriver and the driver transistor. Unfortunately its still happening....

#6 15 days ago
Quoted from drocelot:

I went down and got some replaced the predriver and the driver transistor. Unfortunately its still happening....

Replace the IC attached to the pre driver, and maybe the one attached to that one too

#7 15 days ago

Check your pop bumper switch to see if it is stuck closed.

#8 15 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Replace the IC attached to the pre driver, and maybe the one attached to that one too

I'm beginning to suspect that, do you know what the model number is ?

#9 14 days ago

Check the switch first.
Next you can try replacing U8.
This is a 7402 chip.
I'll attach some schematics for System 6 driver board.
Look for solenoid 19, driven by Q6.

Also I would recommend putting in a Special Solenoid Saver Board, which fuses each Special Solenoid.
https://nvram.weebly.com/repair--conversion-kits.html

And a Bridge Board which can prevent your game from catching fire when a short occurs in one of the rectifiers in the backbox.
http://www.inkochnito.nl (click on the Bridge Board image).
Available at RTBB https://www.rtbb.com.au/product/williams-data-east-bridge-board/

Peter
http://www.inkochnito.nl

Williams_System-6-7_Driver-Board_layout.pdfWilliams_System-6-7_Driver-Board_schematic.pdf
#10 14 days ago

Hi Inkochinto, awesome post !

The left kicker is driven by Q12 which I've replaced, would it be U6 that requires the change ?

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#11 13 days ago

Are you sure you are looking at the right Special Solenoid?
In the first post you say "Left Bumper", so I assumed it was the Left Pop Bumper (Solenoid 19, Q6).
If you are talking about the Left Slingshot (Solenoid 22, Q12), then you should try and replace U9.
If things still does not work, U7 is next in line.

AlienPoker (resized).jpg
#12 13 days ago
Quoted from drocelot:

I went down and got some replaced the predriver and the driver transistor. Unfortunately its still happening....

If you are shotgunning, randomly replacing things you are just gambling with guesses. The best way to repair the failure is to check signals, troubleshoot to locate the problem. Easiest to do this with an oscilloscope or logic probe, but I can do it with a DMM as well just looking at voltages. You have identical circuits driving each solenoid output that helps with comparing each section.

Don't forget that if you are talking about the special solenoids (pops and slings) these can be activated directly by a playfield switch. In Inkochnitos diagram above, you'd need to check the state of the switch solenoid 6 trigger and make sure IC7 pin 9 isn't seeing a stuck closed switch (active low)

#13 12 days ago

Hi this is the offending Soleniod

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#14 11 days ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

If you are talking about the Left Slingshot (Solenoid 22, Q12), then you should try and replace U9.
If things still does not work, U7 is next in line.

#15 11 days ago

....

You are talking about the Left Slingshot (Solenoid 22, Q12), then you should try and replace U9.
If things still does not work, U7 is next in line.

#16 11 days ago

some times its the diode on the pop bumper switch. you can cut it it and se if that works

#17 11 days ago
Quoted from oldmanpinball:

some times its the diode on the pop bumper switch. you can cut it it and se if that works

You cannot cut a diode off in a switch matrix. You will confuse the switch matrix and a lot if bad things will happen.

#18 11 days ago
Quoted from oldmanpinball:

some times its the diode on the pop bumper switch. you can cut it it and se if that works

I've done that but thanks for replying !

#19 10 days ago

sorry i meant the Capacitor

#20 10 days ago
Quoted from oldmanpinball:

sorry i meant the Capacitor

Figured that was what you meant after the post. It's all good.

#21 10 days ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Figured that was what you meant after the post. It's all good.

Which cap is that the one on the switch

#22 9 days ago

Ok I replaced U9 and the soleniod doesn't stay latched on.. I did the tests the left slingshot fire then the fuse blew.

Also no the displays do not work except for an orange dot in player 1

#23 9 days ago

Check if the slingshot coil is connected correctly.
Red wire on the banded side of the diode....

#24 8 days ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

Check if the slingshot coil is connected correctly.
Red wire on the banded side of the diode....

Hi yes it is, I have also replaced it

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#25 8 days ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

Check if the slingshot coil is connected correctly.
Red wire on the banded side of the diode....

yes it is

#26 8 days ago

So i have traced the wires and replaced all these components. When I run through the tests the Left Kicker will stay on and blow the fuse. Before it just did it at boot.

I've checked the switches, I guess the next is to replace the 7408 which is IC7

Thoughts ?

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#27 8 days ago
Quoted from drocelot:

So i have traced the wires and replaced all these components. When I run through the tests the Left Kicker will stay on and blow the fuse. Before it just did it at boot.
I've checked the switches, I guess the next is to replace the 7408 which is IC7
Thoughts ?[quoted image]

Try it with 2j13 removed, see if it still locks on in test.

#28 8 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Try it with 2j13 removed, see if it still locks on in test.

I just did that and ran the test and it still locked on.

#29 8 days ago
Quoted from drocelot:

I just did that and ran the test and it still locked on.

IC7 next then

#30 7 days ago

Many technicians are taught to approach triage situations using the “shotgun” method—replace all major components that usually are the source of machine problems. This is the most expensive way to repair a machine, and it doesn’t always work. Troubleshooting by testing signals with a DMM, oscilloscope, or lohic probe and understanding the function of these components and how the machine is supposed to work will get you there faster and more efficiently.

#31 7 days ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Many technicians are taught to approach triage situations using the “shotgun” method—replace all major components that usually are the source of machine problems. This is the most expensive way to repair a machine, and it doesn’t always work. Troubleshooting by testing signals with a DMM, oscilloscope, or lohic probe and understanding the function of these components and how the machine is supposed to work will get you there faster and more efficiently.

Yep I agree I just don't have those tools.

#32 7 days ago
Quoted from drocelot:

Yep I agree I just don't have those tools.

Theres only so much you can do without the tools or skills. Good luck.

#33 7 days ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Theres only so much you can do without the tools or skills. Good luck.

I have tools such as a DMM . I have worked in electronics (I've designed various equipment sold worldwide). I have very little knowledge of 1980's electronics, I'm simply reaching out to advice on historic.

#34 6 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

IC7 next then

Right that has been replaced, unfortunately the solenoid is still locking on with the tests.

So far I have replaced these items alongside the diode across the solenoid. Now im wondering if the PIA chip at IC5. Frustrating as I have been able to get the parts readily.

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#35 6 days ago
Quoted from drocelot:

I have tools such as a DMM . I have worked in electronics (I've designed various equipment sold worldwide). I have very little knowledge of 1980's electronics, I'm simply reaching out to advice on historic.

Perfect...then use the DMM to check the pulse train instead of shotgunning. I don't own a logic probe and use the o'scope little in pinball except for audio troubles. I'd rather not drag out a lot of stuff, so mostly I use my DMM to see what is going on. Put the game in solenoid test, put the DMM in DC volts, and look for a positive or negative stuck signal or a pulse jump negative or positive. Works pretty well. Then start somewhere in the middle of the drive circuit looking for that pulse, comparing to an adjacent drive circuit for reference. Saves a lot of time and money.

I'd start at the 7408 comparing input pins 9 & 10 of the problem channel to a working adjacent channel, such as pins 12 & 13, and the output pin of the problem channel pin 8 to output pin of the working channel pin 11. This would give me an idea of what is going on and which direction to look to next.
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#36 4 days ago

I think its looking like the PIA chip..

#37 3 days ago
Quoted from drocelot:

I think its looking like the PIA chip..

Quite possible...did you get there by test or by guess? Another thing is to use your sense of touch, is the PIA significantly warmer than it should be? Sometimes they get discolored when overheated for a time, like a big hazy circle on top.

#38 2 days ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Quite possible...did you get there by test or by guess? Another thing is to use your sense of touch, is the PIA significantly warmer than it should be? Sometimes they get discolored when overheated for a time, like a big hazy circle on top.

Yes its getting warm, I've noticed now the credit knocker is toast it burnt. I've decided to take the advise and redo the interboard connector.

Can anyone advise me the part numbers for these? Also part numbers in general for Alien Poker ?

#39 1 day ago

One other thing to check is the ohms on the coil. If you replace the board components but the coil is out of spec you will keep frying components.

#40 1 day ago
Quoted from drocelot:

I've decided to take the advise and redo the interboard connector.

Can anyone advise me the part numbers for these?

From great plains electronics site:
Receptacle/female pins - 09-48-2106
Male pins - 2420-10-2260

You'll need to buy 4 of each.

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