(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over

By HeighwayPinball

5 years ago

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  • 1,030 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by ChipScott
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Linked Games

  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

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Topic index (key posts)

53 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

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Post #9151 Insight from Alien's programmer on tournament mode Posted by Ferret (3 years ago)

Post #9234 Update on distribution Posted by HeighwayPinball (3 years ago)

Post #9660 Here we show you a short clip from the 'Ambush Multiball' mode Posted by HeighwayPinball (3 years ago)

Post #10128 Photo of Alien at UK Trade Show Posted by unigroove (3 years ago)

Post #10230 game play video from EAG UK tradeshow Posted by Join_The_Cirqus (3 years ago)

Post #10231 game play video from EAG UK tradeshow Posted by Join_The_Cirqus (3 years ago)

Post #10914 Alien ships Posted by ZenTron (3 years ago)

Post #10916 Alien ships Posted by HeighwayPinball (3 years ago)

Post #11230 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by ezeltmann (3 years ago)

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#14858 2 years ago

I don't see a need to close this thread. it still remains the OFFICIAL GAME THREAD for ALIEN PINBALL. it is full of comments on art, theme, pf features, playability, programming, fixes, streams, etc. Hopefully future discussion will resume along these topic lines, especially once/if more games are delivered.

the circumstances surrounding the development/delivery of the game and the viability/restructuring of Heighway pinball during this time should remain as part of ALIEN's historical record.

1 month later
#15644 2 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Was the idea of flashers lighting the head, ever implemented?
If it hasn't been included yet, it may be worth delaying production, and completely reworking the pins to include this.

if Heighway were to delay production and rework this pin, I can think of better things to change/add than lighting the head.

1 week later
#15691 2 years ago

what incarnation is that PF posted above? the upper left section isn't the same as those on gameplay videos. is this a new change or an old image?

1 week later
#15851 2 years ago
Quoted from bemmett:

So it sounds like it is likely they aren't going to continue to do the fiber optic ramps in the LEs anymore(e-mail this morning stating that from Heighway). I think obviously some kind of add-on/replacement is due to those of us in on the LE. I would be happy if Roman's glass was included as the replacement for no extra cost. Not sure they are thinking a replacement is necessarily warranted but I think most of us that paid extra for the LE would agree that something definitely is and we might need to push the envelope to get that message across. Maybe reduced/half cost additional back box screen? Thoughts or other ideas?

My feelings would be this. [short answer]

While I sympathize with plight/saga all the preorder customers endured, just remember you were looking at a big FAT ZERO just a short time ago. Had there been more of a period of time between the announcement that Andrew was insolvent and a white knight was found, you would have really felt the anxiousness surrounding your potential loss. Instead the 'takeover' and 'bankruptcy' were announced simultaneously and everyone didn't get to endure that. You guys would have been praying for a savior [similar to what TBL guys are experiencing now]. Judging by some of the posts regarding refunds, a number of people clearly misunderstood the gravity of the situation and underappreciated the gift they were being handed. successful or not at a turnaround, those posters should have been kissing the ground the 'investors' walk on for at least being given a chance at recovery. Who else would have considered bailing out such a sunken ship?

they should be regarded as heroes to have voluntarily stepped up in the face of such adversity. these guys were already on the line for far more than you, along with countless others [distributors/employees/vendors] involved in the project, all victims of Andrew's relentless misrepresentations.

If it were me, i'd be ecstatic just to be getting anything [partital refund/refund/game] rather than the big ZERO. But, if you personally feel the need for further compensation, carry on.

#15856 2 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

It is not that black or white. It is all about finding consensus within the context of what is possible at the moment.

thanks for the response. I will adjust what I believed was the consensus understanding of the situation at takeover time by reading between the lines of your post.

#15938 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Many of the LE features were announced before a game existed, which never made sense.

you mean like some of those dream add-on features Nordman had outlined, that we don't have today??

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Why an LE is not allowed to follow suit (gameplay wise) is beyond me.

Nordman's LE concepts would have enhanced standard gameplay considerably. see below from post number 91.

Quoted from labnip:

i found this LE version drawing... must have accidentally been posted then quickly removed. can't find it again, but fortunately saved a copy just in time

It looks like it has some cool existing and new features:
17. TSPP-like ball saucer behind 3 drop-targets. Activates 10 unique LE game play modes.
18. Hidden ball-redirect, when active sends ball into subway*. Similar to TOM "Vanish".
19. Secret hole at top of playfield leading into subway*.
20 & 21. Subway-left and subway-right, with game-state related switch that redirects ball down 1 of those subways adding randomness to game. Also, allows for multiball capture & storage for LE.
22 & 23. Popup targets similar to MM or TH. However, instead of just 1 fixed toy that pops up to bash, there are 3 unique toys & 1 VUK ramp.
24 & 25. There are 2 under-playfield sliding tracks containing 4 options to popup in their 1 location. The 4 options slide left & right on a track under the playfield, so when the target popus up, the player has 1 of 3 surprises to bash or 1 VUK ramp to capture the ball or have already captured balls shout out of it down to the lower flippers. The 3 options on the slider are: (a) alien egg, (b) alien facehugger, (c) adult alien. The 4th item is the VUK. We believe this first-ever game design feature will elevate the market in game design and ensure our LE customers enjoy every penny.
26. Digital radar display for hunt & attack mode. This shows unique (random) locations of aliens starting at the far-back of the playfield and over time moving closer to the lower flippers. Player can kill this aliens by hitting targets represented by the digital radar blip locations on the display. Some aliens require more than 1 direct hit to kill. If aliens work their way down the playfield and make it directly on top of the player, the 2 lower flippers will begin to work inconsistently & weaker, representing damage taken by the player from direct alien attacks.

#16008 2 years ago
Quoted from HighProtein:

$10K by next ALIEN day...

10000-dollar-bill (resized).jpg

#16038 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

It's only an ROI if you can actually cash out for the difference.

Quoted from sed6:

Nah, not really. Had I not paid $8k then I'd pay $9k today, no sale needed.

i believe his implication is that your ROI on paper means little if you don't get delivery of a game.

#16092 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I suspect if it was shown for the first time today, it would blow people away, but the market is burned out on hearing about Alien for years now, so that severely compromises the marketing impact they can make.

Agree. VERY TRUE. and not just alien. both P3/lexi lightspeed and homepin/thunderbirds have taken something like 4 years from introduction to production. clearly a couple more instances of unanticipated/underestimated difficulties in producing pinballs. a lot of the initial anticipation for these titles is going to be lost when development languishes for so long. P3's failure to present a second game to the traditional pin community during that time didn't help maintain interest either. the majority of new companies appear to be having to reinvent the pinball machine from square one - starting with developing new hardware, then cabinets/modularity, then tooling their own parts/mechs and so on. that's going to take a lot more time than already having those things in place and just designing playfield layouts and writing code.

had they held off presenting anything until their projects were completed, they would have been new and fresh with potentially greater impact. finally reaching production today, while commendable, is 4 year old news because the cat was let out of the bag so long ago.

#16104 2 years ago
Quoted from sed6:

We're bashing a pin that has a great layout and great code/sound?

Code and sound work: appear to be top notch.
great layout? i beg to differ.

given time, people will come to understand there are aspects of alien's physical design that severely hamper overall playability. what are they? i guess you'll just have to wait. i can't see spending the energy on the subject unless the machines are actually produced.

#16118 2 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

ooooh. cryptic. I love a good cliffhanger.

Quoted from jonesjb:

I'm curious, can you divulge some hints?

Quoted from Whysnow:

seriously, WHAT are they? in your opinion of course...

i do focus on playfield design and game play ALOT. personally, i do not give the weight to theme, art, sound, lighting, toys, add-ons/modding that is reflected by the amount of discussion these lesser topics receive in NIB threads. it is hard for me to understand how game play/playfield design take such a backseat when they are so highly rated in the 'what's most important to you' thread. Same thing is happening in the TNA thread. There could be so much more discussion about that playfield layout, but nobody wants to talk about it.

2% DMD/LCD animations
6% Theme
6% Light show
6% Artwork
8% Toys
9% Sound package, callout, music, immersive atmosphere
15% Lastability, play again factor
24% Playfield layout, how it plays, how smooth and fun are shots
25% Gameplay, rules

back to alien.
many good things to say about this pin. kudos to those who perservered despite the turmoil. still, i saw a few things i didn't like in the gameplay right away. as of today, that opinion has not changed. while not earth shattering in its own right, the issues i see may have taken time for some people to realize/understand. by heightening awareness, i expect it will move that learning curve forward. it will be quite factual, with most of the info/evidence pulled from some of the 16K+ existing posts. in that respect, it will be organized more like a research paper.

Quoted from kklank:

I guess I'll have to wait. You can't spend the energy?

would you really put your effort into something you knew was moot?

the majority of work has been done. it will be posted. and yes, my hands are tired. its the work required to finish that would go to waste if nothing really mattered. the last few weeks have been a VERY slow time for this thread as it is. it will be nice to finally have a little something to talk about.

Hilton, or anyone else willing to send me audits from their machine, it will only help to make for a more comprehensive report.
see post #16071.

Quoted from ezeltmann:

[RE: buffalo NY game] On this particular example the playfield was very dark to the point where you could not see the upper flippers very well.

agreed. the darkness in appearance of the flippers is terrible. the upper right is completely in the shadows. and that game was supposedly lit from above. what happened to the white bats w/orange rubbers?

alienpf01 (2) (resized).jpg

#16123 2 years ago
Quoted from nephasth:

It's documented in this thread. Be sure to re-read it all.

Quoted from jonesjb:

So to clarify, the design flaw of which you speak which will hamper playability is poor/dark lighting?

Quoted from kklank:

Holy mackerel! That's the way I understood it as well. To each his own I guess.

Quoted from Wickerman2:

Boooooom goes the dynamite! The whitewood had different flipper bats.

yuk it up all you want. do you guys even discuss anything that is pseudo serious? i told you to look forward to a dissertation. simply agreeing with a post re: the visability of the flippers was completely unrelated.

need more help regarding the design issue?
if the lead software designer has acknowledged on multiple occasions having to compensate for it, i'd say it's a problem.

#16134 2 years ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

people will come to understand there are aspects of alien's physical design that severely hamper overall playability.

please don't read anymore into what i wrote or put words in my mouth. nowhere do i mention the word 'flaw'. use of the word 'physical' refers to the physical playfield, as opposed to a software design choice. use of the word 'playability' refers to 'pinball playability', not the machines ability to function properly. use of the word 'severely' may have been excessive, so if you want to discount that one, go ahead. use of the words 'overall playability' mean that when the game's pinball playability is examined in its totality, some part of it being hampered, not that every aspect of its playability is in question. in fact, i'm already on record as saying:

Quoted from greenhornet:

many good things to say about this pin. kudos to those who persevered despite the turmoil.

what i am going to discuss is simply a design 'choice' that is easily observed and clearly does limit the pinball playability of the game. i already told you it was not 'earth shattering'. it has been mentioned before [but not really discussed], and there is NO DOUBT it would have been brought up again and again as more games become available. so, its nothing new, and nothing players wouldn't discover on their own. either you will be able to overlook it and go on to enjoy the game as it is designed/laid out, or conclude differently.

Quoted from Whysnow:

It has more shots, more combos, more unique combos, more use of flipper technique (roll pass, tap pass, dead pass, nudge pass, drop catch, tip pass, back hands, diversions, etc...), more player interaction, and more physical risk v reward than almost any game when all combined.

Hilton, these are all good points, but none of them have anything to do with the specific aspect i'll be discussing. why not wait until you know what that is before trying to defend. are you going to help by posting your game audits? your machine can help serve as a benchmark for others. echovictor, audits?

i consider myself up to date on what going on in the handful of alien threads. i don't believe i'm missing much of anything. in the end, it will be up to each individual to determine whether they were 'missing' what i have to share. the 'shot map' will be a small part of it. if i felt 2 sentences was enough to do the issue justice, i certainly would have posted them. instead, i'm going into more depth than most and be as comprehensive as possible. it may be TLTR for most, but if you are interested in this title i would hope you take the time to read and comment. then you can tell me how far off base i am.

my point has nothing to do with lighting.
what happened to the white bats with orange rubbers? translates to >> can you see that upper right black bat with green rubbers hiding in the shadows despite be lit from above? nobody who has watched the buffalo stream can honestly answer yes to that question.

#16140 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

ummm.... why not just spit it out. You have spent more time writing now about your looming announcemnet of an announcement than anyone not debuting a new pinball machine should

i'm sure you don't want to read/rummage through a rough draft. i still require time to prepare a cohesive presentation. two weeks since the buffalo stream with little news. very quiet. people pretty much waiting. waiting to see what number of machines are going to be hitting stateside in the near term. brits have been discussing the price increases for some time. nobody's going anywhere. no need to rush. timing isn't going to make much of a difference.

Quoted from Whysnow:

What audits are you interested in particular?

Quoted from Whysnow:

if you guys want another audit dump, just LMK.

rather than list specifics, how about whatever you send joe. i had previously mentioned post number 16071 [youtube video of some audit stats] as an option for displaying info. would also like to see the easy/medium/hard settings used during game play. these were not displayed on the 16071 youtube video. a routed game, at ideal pitch, with significant plays - that info would be nice. i have no ulterior motive, just want to see if it strengthens or weakens my case. happy to use regardless of which direction it takes. whether or not you choose to send anything at this time, you will always be able to compare the metrics i present after the fact to confirm whether certain tendencies may exist for you.

#16145 2 years ago
Quoted from Fytr:

Indeed. But now I'm curious. greenhornet you might as stop posting until you can publish your paper and we all have something concrete to discuss, otherwise it's just unsubstantiated trash talking of the game.

i agree. not looking to turn things into a dog and pony show. i stated i had something to share and that it will take time to complete. i'm not instigating things at this point.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

This is ridiculous.....if you're not interested in the game, move on. If you want to inject speculative " fact based" drama, not interested.
You are not adding any value here, quite the opposite....not even opinion based ( more like a " know it all" approach).
The more I read of your posts, the more certain I am of who you are ( or connected to)...Im sure a certain podcast would appreciate your "higher knowledge" on this title, but not in this thread....thanks

i am a nobody, but do consider myself a pinball critic. someone who has played during five decades, knows what he likes, can see what doesn't look right, etc. you want to talk ridiculous, let's talk ridiculous. people are spending ridiculous amounts of money for these games. they should be as informed as possible to any and all circumstances surrounding the purchase of any $6K-9K machine [not just alien]. my observations are exactly that, a point worth considering when it comes to purchasing this title. even if people choose to dismiss it, at least they were aware of it and better prepared to make an informed decision.

while everybody has been discussing theme, art, sound, Andrew's promises, the survival of the company, pricing, it is not surprising that they may miss something in the game play. not everyone is breaking down videos, the history of the playfield's development, and subsequent/ongoing software updates to arrive at a conclusion. if i can point out something that i feel is worthwhile and a help to others in a logical, intelligent, factual manner - i'm going to do it. nobody who is associated with this game - nobody who is an advocate for this game - is going to tell you. who are you going to hear it from??

if you want to SEE who i am, i was among those getting games ready at the museum of pinball last sunday. does anybody in that crowd look they work with/for Kaneda?


#16153 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

sorry but I wont be providing you audit dumps. Your motives are clear and your inability to just plainly say the audits you are so interested in to try and prove some sort of imaginary fault which almost assuradly is more in your head than anything else tells us all what your angle is.

if my motives are clear, you have my permission to post them. be my guest. let all the world know. i believe i spelled them out quite eloquently in my last post.

i sincerely requested info from you and you are not responding in kind. if you believe i would alter figures, you are more than welcome to post your audits publicly on this thread or via youtube. the same concern exists on my end if i requested only specific metrics of you. the info is not overly important, or necessary. it would have helped. i told you good, bad, indifferent, i would have used it.

it is a design choice, and IMHO a poor one. you may call if a 'fault' or 'flaw', but it is hardly imaginary. everything else about the game is great, but i assure you, some number of people will view the game in a different light.

Quoted from Agent_Hero:

Audits from 1,000 plays by mostly inexperienced (at least with Alien, not necessarily their general pinball skill level) players isn't going to say anything conclusive. Ghostbusters was thought to be the hardest game OMG EVAR!!! in the first few months it was out. More experienced players get time on it in their own homes and the game starts to look much more approachable.

we are limited to what data is avail, given so few machines in the wild at this time. still, any backglass is better than no backglass. it is Hilton's contention that his route players are enjoying alien, the game plays well, and is dialed in at the optimum pitch. his data would have provided a cursory look. agree that audits of games owned by skilled players will reflect their level [like #636 ranked joe schober, for example], and their accomplishments will exceed recreational players. still, i don't feel that this is going to be looked upon as a skill issue.

ghostbusters. that game has only two flippers, right?

Quoted from Whysnow:

Reality is that the physical design of the game is VERY solid and the code compliments it VERY well.

hillton, i advised you not to try and defend what you don't know you are defending against. i wouldn't want people using your statements against you later. that's why we have miranda rights.

agree. code is terrific. i will be providing some constructive software suggestions myself that may improve game play. if they are considered, fine. this is not a witch hunt on my part.

Quoted from Wickerman2:

The game is finished.

when something is finished, that's the time to critique it. the machine is complete, what do you think? then again, maybe pinball has it right. criticize when it's a work in progress; then when its done, don't talk about it because nothing is gonna be changing.

#16159 2 years ago
Quoted from CobraClutch:

Yeah, if greenhornet can stop posting until his manifesto is complete (or even altogether) that would be greeeeat.

maybe the washington post will run it. you can christen me 'the unabomber'

#16167 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

(And why he even liked the posts against him).

should I down vote them and create more animosity? or reply to their sarcasm in the easiest way possible with an up vote?

1 week later
#16413 2 years ago
Quoted from Join_The_Cirqus:

As I know there was recent talk of the Upper Left Ramp being impossible to make, for your pleasure 3 shots in a row to that ramp without issue and Hypersleep Multiball

you are feeding the upper right flipper by hand in your video.
this is not a gameplay sample.

#16418 2 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Did we ever get to the bottom of this mystery? How is this coming? It's been almost two weeks. I wonder if the revelation will be shared?



2 weeks later
#16652 2 years ago
Quoted from chris_brim:

i think they will be lucky if they sell 10 in the uk
people seem to be under the illusion that pinball sells in the hundreds in the uk i can tell you this is not true i would suspect less than 50 for any new game

you may be right. reading the UK facing pinball forums, at least for now, people have grown disenchanted with Heighway. The price hikes were not well received. While limited, the posts over there do not indicate people are waiting for a prepaid games.

Quoted from delt31:

I have been in contact with CT as I just put down my deposit of 1k but I'm getting the standard edition. I've been told they arrive 9/10 and I plan on picking it up myself.

Quoted from delt31:

Well CT just told me they're waiting on an update from their broker but latest is pickup this Sunday.

Something i do find hard to comprehend is that delt31 [US customer] says he put down a SE deposit with CT only 10 days ago and talks as if he is expecting to pick up one of the 25 games from the forthcoming shipment. if true, that would be disconcerting for the actual number of presold SE Aliens here in the US. are there really only <25 people still in on a preordered SE?

#16722 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballs:

I think they've killed the company

Quoted from Wickerman2:

the company was dead prior to their arrival on the scene


1 week later
#16798 2 years ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

The travel across the pond is the most predictable part. The cool part is you get a shipping container number
and ship info and can GPS track it on a shipping website and know exactly where it is and the estimated arrival date.. My two cents is it hasn't shipped yet if they don't have the shipping container info..

Quoted from delt31:

hopefully we receive an update from Heighways facebook or Cointaker with some info.. CT did say they received "final" confirmation.

it is not going to sit well if CT tells people, yet again, that games are coming if they aren't. at this point i can't see them saying games are on their way without verified tracking/manifest info in hand. if CT is unable to post/provide that info, then hopefully someone else will. id rather see that info this time. especially if "final confirmation" turns out to be just two more meaningless words.

documented are the promises made most recently regarding the backward moving ship: from in route, to delayed at port, to back on the manufacturers floor. and dont forget this one from 5 months ago [shortly before Andrew stepped down] where games never shipped. on both occasions, CT told people games were coming without possessing verified shipping info.

Quoted from NPO:

All right, so I got in touch with Cointaker today. Being paid in full and hearing rumors lately, I wanted to touch base and see what was going on.
Here is what I confirmed:
10 SE Aliens are indeed headed this way NEXT week. The exact day is unknown at this time, but it is happening next week. They will be coming via airfreight. ..
And yes, one of them is mine; I definitely confirmed that.
So say the games ship next Friday-Saturday (13-14 April).. the instant that game arrives at my home, I will be taking pictures.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Are 10 standards still heading to CoinTaker this week? I asked them the other day how long to get a standard if I paid in full today and was told 30-40 days.

Quoted from NPO:

I'll confirm it. I'll also confirm the 7-10 day delay, and that now they're supposed to ship next week.

Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

As for the Cointaker shipment - there have been no delays at our end. Please direct any enquiries about the shipment to Cointaker. Their consignment is due to leave very soon in any case.

Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

Cointaker's games will ship by airfreight

#16805 2 years ago
Quoted from Agent_Hero:

Got that big Alien bombshell ready to drop on us yet?

Quoted from jonesjb:

Yes, thanks for reminding, @greenhornet when are you going to share your thoughts? I'm looking forward.

Quoted from Wickerman2:

aren't we past due for your documentation?

yes, sorry about the 'promise' earlier this month. really did believe i could wrap things up over that holiday weekend.

Quoted from greenhornet:


i am definitely monitoring progress re: if and when games reach the states. continued misrepresentations in delivery have afforded everyone more time, including myself. remember, i wasn't keen on spending the time if the point was moot.

Quoted from greenhornet:

i can't see spending the energy on the subject unless the machines are actually produced.

Quoted from greenhornet:

the work required to finish would go to waste if nothing really mattered.

pending shipping confirmation, ~21 people may be receiving games in the next 30 days. i am confident i will be sharing my message some time before then.

when HP said they were processing 'new ramps' and that current owners in the US were getting an entire 'new playfield', i was holding out/dreaming they may have redesigned some aspects of the playfield for the better. it would have been nice to see some gameplay on a newer production machine as well. all we got was a short video from austria, which did nothing to change my opinion/position.

some of you aren't going to like it. some may appreciate it. others perhaps meh. most everyone has been kind enough not to turn things into a clusterfk and id prefer to keep things amicable and objective.

as a good faith and humorous gesture, im posting a photo to show everyone im still hard at work and on top of this matter.

paul02 (resized).jpg

#16928 2 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

I don't get the desire to follow a ship. Am I missing something?

titanic03 (resized).jpg

#16951 2 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

Hang in there.

aliensripley07 (resized).jpg

#16968 2 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

How did Alien play at York? Was it live and error free all weekend?

found 6 comments in the York show thread:

Better than I remembered. Like the animations and call outs. Only got one game on it so I don't have a deep opinion but I would really like to see the production model.

Played it at Allentown and then again yesterday... Full Throttle brings me back game after game because of the flow and the shots. Alien, as amazing as it looks and sounds, doesn't have much of either. It might all click into place after a couple dozen games but FT had me hooked by this point.

I got there shortly after 9 on Saturday and didn't have to wait long to play Alien and Total Nuclear Annihilation. TNA is the better pin of the two.

Still meh. The shots just are not fun really.

I hate to say it but I also agree I was not enjoying aliens as much as I loved dialed in and total nuclear annihilation!

I had fun playing it, multiball was very good.

#16982 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Not sure why this is funny. Green Hornet is a tool with an agenda no doubt, with his secret dissertation on fatal flaws and all, but that's another topic all together.

you are reacting to greenhornet P-O-O-R-L-Y.
the comment pulled from his post -'TNA is the better game of the two' - was quoted out of context. it was not his personal opinion. it was someone else's - one of six comments made by other people who played Alien at the York show. In addition, he has never said Alien has 'fatal flaws'. that is Hilton talking. he has represented, but not yet presented, that the game has some poor design elements that affect is gameplay/playability.

Quoted from Cheeks:

I'm 100x more excited to get TNA than I am about Alien

would like a critical review on TNA?
i'm sure he's working on that as well.

#16990 2 years ago

Hilton, i don't mind seeing you on the record with these positions.

Quoted from Whysnow:

funny part is i went though the whole game last week and checked all sorts of audits. there is no fatal flaw in the shots of the game. I was actually amazed how evenly used many features appear to be.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I too value how a game shoots and playfield design highest of all... Alien is quite possibly one of the best laid out playfields of all time and definitely of recent history.

Quoted from Whysnow:

If anything the physical design, layout, and mechs have proven to be a highlight combined with the code.

Quoted from Whysnow:

Reality is that the physical design of the game is VERY solid and the code compliments it VERY well. Despite me not caring much for the theme, the game is a shooter dream. Many people have a tough time at first adjusting to the shots but once you fine them, the game is butter smooth and just plain F U N to shoot. Dave did a great job with the overall layout and geometry and Joe did a great job (along with the rest of the code team) to tie it all together.

Quoted from Whysnow:

The geometry on Heighway games is 2 for 2 so far as the best flowing games ever built.

Quoted from Whysnow:

There is really ONLY one audit that matters and that is the fun factor.

for reference, here's an example of what its like to 'eat crow'.


every time you attribute your 'fatal flaw' reference to me, i'm just keep reminding people that i never said that, and that you like putting words in other people's mouths.

#16993 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Alright Green Hornet... who is your normal account?

Britt Reid


#16994 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

are you talking about yourself in the 3rd person now...

whether intentional or not, if someone happens to quote one of my posts which makes a comment made by somebody else appear attributable to me, then it's only apropos that i explain it away in third person. And at the same time you guys get a chance to brush up on your French.

Added over 3 years ago:

#17020 2 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

They will come, they will come.....

aliensmostly (resized).jpg

#17022 2 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

It's very encouraging to see the game has progressed this far, and many things have been sorted BEFORE they started shipping in quantity.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

This story could have had quite a different ending.

very admirable of the investor group to step up with more money to both continue the project and complete it with the proper/necessary components, because here's a couple scenarios people may have missed:
1] if Andrew actually ended up paying off Sigourney Weaver [and any of the numerous other cast members who don't seem to appear among the video assets], he could have been out of business even sooner, and
2] if he had enough money to actually build games and used the originally intended parts, those games today would have been subject to:

totalrecall01 (resized).jpg

#17025 2 years ago
Quoted from nman:

How could they have possibly left the tri-boobed lady off of that?

at least there are human beings among the artwork.

#17079 2 years ago

Let's start off with a prophetic quote from Andrew:

Quoted from HeighwayPinball:

I know the spotlight is on us.

this issue of weak lighting and/or dark playfields is present on a couple other NIB - not just Alien. check out the Houdini prototype [dark bats there too]. And how about TNA. Matt Andrews puts black in the middle of that playfield, despite acknowledging players will have a difficult time seeing the ball against black.
houdini2 (resized).jpg

tna17 (resized).jpg

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Having control of overhead lighting hopefully gets me what I want to see

I have found exactly what you are going to need.


Quoted from frolic:

It's unfortunate that this happened again on Alien when it was clear it was a problem on Full Throttle that Andrew had publicly acknowledged.
Oh well, spots it is I guess.

Quoted from Hazoff:

Spots, thats the ticket.

Quoted from Wickerman2:

Lights schmites. I can add a spotlight or 2 if need be.

And everybody laughed at me when I made 'light' of this shortcoming. and remember the black bats only make matters worse. wait a minute, found some white ones.


#17101 2 years ago


#17109 2 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

None of this takes in to account pirates.

delt31 can confirm pirates season just ended.


#17113 2 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Now you let the cat out of the bag for the next JJP machine!

What if JJP could have done both POTC and Alien?


#17145 2 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

the whole kit/swap out playfield idea was a waste of time,.. The concept sounds neat but in the end a total waste of time. Stern could have started this program by now. Why haven't they?

so instead, Multimorphic did.
in the end, i expect they will understand why it isn't a good idea as well.

#17160 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

latest from CT is a mon or tues pickup.

Quoted from Astropin:

I sure hope you're not calling/emailing Cointaker everyday.

how many times have i told you..
next week youre getting one. i promise. now stop calling me.

melissa (resized).jpg
. . . . . . . . . sigourney weaver as gwen demarco in galaxy quest

#17193 2 years ago

alien's 'dark' history has already been documented with photographic evidence of before and after by pinstadium

Quoted from jwilson:

The Houdinis at Expo were some of the best lit games I've ever seen.

you are quoting me from a post that was made before updated Houdini's appeared at expo.

Houdini before = DARK, especially the lower playfield.

houdini2 (resized).jpg

houdini1 (resized).jpg

Houdini is better lit today because AP listened to people who told them it was too dark. it WAS an issue that was acknowledged by AP. they lightened the playfield colors and added spotlights since my post.

Quoted from jwilson:

Now you're just crazy. TNA is BLINDING. The lighting on it is crazy bright.

and i am not crazy.

JW, im going to assume you are talking about TNA's lightshow and GI. i was clearly talking about the pf art. they are two different things. IMHO, the addition of the pf art and 'mood lighting' made the game darker than some may have been expecting when they first saw all the neon pinks and purples. i dont think anybody was expecting BLACK. im not sure i would would categorize the photos below as 'crazy bright'. but im willing to listen. do you want to argue the playfield doesn't have darkness issues and that players [of all abilities] arent going to have more trouble picking up a silver ball racing against a BLACK background vs an alternative color scheme? or, do you still have no interest on commenting on the playfield art?

tna17 (resized).jpg

tna18 (resized).jpg

JW, i dont mind people who present counter arguments. but when they think/try to make it look like they made their point when when they failed, how am i supposed to answer other than to point out their flaws.

with Houdini, you failed because you used a quote of mine from an earlier point in time that is no longer relevant today [essentially quoting me out of context].

with TNA, you failed because you didn't argue my points [which you dubiously left off when you quoted me], which were the use of black in the center of the pf and Matt Andrews being on record that he didn't believe this to be a good idea, but went ahead and did it anyway. this is one of the games biggest negatives. did you find his quote by the way?

im very humble and will freely admit if/when im proven wrong.

Quoted from jwilson:

You seem to have a problem with reality.

but please, dont try to make me look bad unless you truly can.

Speaking of quotes, here is one from another professional artist commenting on the TNA art package in the Spooky production thread.

Quoted from jwilson:

there are *tons* of rules when it comes to art - colour matching, structure, focus, etc. There are some universal truths about what is pleasing to the eye and how you draw attention that doesn't ever change.
Anyway, I'd also like to stop talking about TNA art as it's complete and no amount of hot air is going to change it. Besides, it's perfectly great the way it is.

he starts off like he was really going critique it from the viewpoint of a professional artist. finally, an expert evaluation for everyone to read. all the art school buzz words started running through my head: line, color, shape, form, space, texture, value, contrast, balance, emphasis, rythym, proportion, harmony, unity, variety, pattern, interpretation.

but then what does he say?
"i don't want to talk about it."

his entire critique: "it's perfectly great".

which pretty much tells me - absolutely nothing. not one specific point on elements and/or principals. no interpretation. an unwillingness to even say i like/dont like this or that. whats going on here? is it a professional courtesy that the most qualified people to offer an opinion [professionals in the same field], dont critique/discuss another colleagues work?

why didn't you go ahead and offer your opinion? because the art was complete and nothing was going to change? well, to me that seems like to best time/reason to offer an art critique, when the work is finished and not subject to change.

#17194 2 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

for those of you following the shipment; OOCL Asia is now tracking on east coast AIS.

Quoted from delt31:

According to CT, it's already in and being delivered tomorrow or Tues. I'm waiting to hear if it's available for pickup tomorrow.

Quoted from CoinTaker:

Good news, container is in port and scheduled to be in our warehouse next week!

probably just another misunderstanding

#17201 2 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

when will you be able to share your thoughts that you were preparing us for? Are they complete? I look forward to reading.

sorry, not complete.
perhaps the following will help those who dont mind thinking a little.

here is something for you to ponder. a small part of the bigger picture. presented is a crude drawing of a hypothetical playfield. consider it an example of 'what could have been done differently'. compare with alien. see if you can find a particular design element that is missing from the current pf. i hope i didnt make it too obvious. ignore the purple one, thats just an extra shot off the back of the UR flipper.

its nothing mechanical. its not a software glitch. its a design choice. it is this missing element that impacts the games playbility, especially when it comes to accomplishing certain game objectives.

what is it that is lacking in the games current design?

how does that affect reaching certain objectives?

what game metrics indicate/confirm this is a problem?

what software adjustments have already been made to try and alleviate the problem?

are their existing geometry issues that [if uncorrected] only compound the problem?

did changes from Nordmans original concept improve or worsen the problem?

what can be done today [if anything] to 'fix' things?

thats a lot of questions to be discussed and answered [many unrelated to this image, so dont dwell on it too much]. Still, this never-to-be 'redesign' would have taken the pressure off all of them.

disclaimer1: software/sound truly top notch. if the game plays as it stands, i can see how owners might enjoy playing alien. but, when it comes to overall playability, its just not going to be as fun as it coulda/shoulda been due to design.

disclaimer2: all information required to determine, present, and answer most of the above questions can be found in this thread and by observing youtube videos of gameplay. anyone could have done it. dont make it out like im holding back a conclusion that nobody else could have reached. just a matter of time/effort to put it all together in a cause/effect analysis.


#17217 2 years ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

probably just another misunderstanding

Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

Here is the OOCL ASIA sailing into port just now.

looks like melissa may have been using the wrong vessel finder...

#17226 2 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

the ONLY way to get to an upper right flipper shot (aside from pops) is from the lower right flipper

you are omitting one additional feed to UR4.
it can also be fed from the lower left.
as ferret explains:

Quoted from Ferret:

There are two upper flippers.
The only way to feed the upper left flipper is to shoot the Vent 1 saucer, which ejects the ball so it drops past the upper left flipper. The upper right flipper can be fed by shooting the Chestburster lane from either the upper left flipper or (difficult but possible) the lower left flipper ... This lane will also be fed ~50% of the time when the ball exits the egg bumpers.

the entire crux of the issues facing overall gameplay lies right here.
extrapolate on this fact, paying close attention to its consequences.
refer to the questions posted earlier today and try to answer them.
ive given you a map, now you just need the compass.

Hilton, when i first mentioned i was going to share an issue, you tried to defend this game citing its terrific lower flipper play. you were way off.

Quoted from Whysnow:

Alien is quite possibly one of the best laid out playfields of all time and definitely of recent history. It has more shots, more combos, more unique combos, more use of flipper technique (roll pass, tap pass, dead pass, nudge pass, drop catch, tip pass, back hands, diversions, etc...),

it has nothing to do with the lower flippers.
in fact, if it will make you happy ill grade lower flipper play an 'A'.
it entirely revolves around upper flipper play, which is pretty close to an 'F'.

Quoted from Whysnow:

Just shoot the dead end chest burster from ANY of the lower three flippers

WOW, just wow. you've owned this game for six months and are going to tell me you can feed the CB lane from the lower right? that i cant wait to see. and i wouldn't mind watching video of your success rate of feeding UR4 from the lower left. i will admit, of all machines currently out there, yours was among the most forgiving when it came to this particular shot. still, pls dont make the shot sound easy. even ferret refers to it as "difficult, but possible".

Quoted from Whysnow:

IF you need an upper right flipper shot, then all you have to do is one shot...
Either left orbit or inner upper loop to pops for nudge to right upper

the feed through the pops is documented as an opportunity to feed UR4. your insistance that it is easy peasy, that it is one shot, is a bit convoluted. in order for the inner loop to feed itself, you have to have gotten to ball on UR4 in the first place, then after successfully shooting vent 3, you need to control a ball firing off of pops one inch from the lane entrance with a 'nudge'. and thats assuming the orbit diverter is closed to drop into the pops, which [i believe] is not always the case. from the outer orbit, almost the same thing. diverter must be such that it allows drop into pops [open orbit bypasses], then 'nudge' a ball firing off pops.

further, im sure these approaches to feed a flipper, are not the type rec players are hoping to find. wouldn't it have been better if the design actually provided for some reasonable feeds benefiting players of all skill levels?

Quoted from libtech:

Yes upper left is a tight shot but do-able, lower left is possible rolling, but very hard

people are finally starting to talk about gameplay.
very good observation on the need for a rolling ball off LL to hit the CB lane. that little momentum left to right helps masse the ball around UR4. from a dead stop - not a high percentage chance. more validation on the difficultly of the CB shot. from a pinball design standpoint, i dont believe we are looking for shots of 'doable' quality when simply attempting to feed an upper flipper.

now, what are the consequences when it comes to completing certain gameplay objectives given an inability/difficulty to feed this flipper?

#17232 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

or anyone that does not want to waste time reading the past three months of green hornets novel...

He thinks the upper right flipper needs a better feed.

#17234 2 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

I look forward to making the “ impossible” shot. Didn’t seem to discourage Tron owners when Gem is nearly impossible on a consistent basis..

here we have consequence number one.
the first of several.

be my guest. love your impossible shot.
Chestbuster [CB] is no 'gem' shot, but do you really want a 'gem' shot type of shot among an ABCD gameplay feature that was intended to be attainable in order to advance in gameplay? where 3 of the 4 are super 'easy' and the 4th is a 'gem' shot? and further, the 'gem' shot had to be made in sequential order? no credit for hitting the CB before A or B, credit only if hit after A and B have been collected.

that ABCD feature in alien is called a LIFECYCLE,
and players are not completing it at the rate developers expected.
if you dont believe me, check audits.
first of many metrics to watch: Lifecycles completed/total games played.

and what does completing lifecycles award you/progress you toward? and if they are more difficult to complete than programmers originally intended? what are the next consequences?

#17271 2 years ago

Hilton, reminding you AGAIN - i never said that.

#17276 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

severe = massively
hamper = flaw
same damn difference.

wow, just wow. do you even believe what you write?
are you saying its OK for you to put words in other peoples mouths as long as its a synonym for what someone actually said/wrote? got news for you, its not the same thing. there are different degrees of tact/severity built into various synonyms/anonyms. when it come to my choice of words i try to choose, but choose wisely. don't appreciate someone else doing it for me. no wonder you enjoy the reputation you do on these forums.

Quoted from Whysnow:

you claimed the physical design seriously hampered playability...

that's right, and you haven't even heard a cohesive explanation yet.

#17278 2 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

ferret , you're the man.

im sure Joe may be getting more opportunities. but keep in mind, unless he has had a change of heart, he is not going to address physical design issues with this game.

Quoted from Ferret:

I'm happy to talk about software issues,
but any physical / electromechanical questions I'll defer to heighwaypinball or ealadubhsidhe or whoever...

#17282 2 years ago
Quoted from zeddex:

“there are aspects of alien's physical design that severely hamper overall playability”
verb: flaw; 3rd person present: flaws; past tense: flawed; past participle: flawed; gerund or present participle: flawing
1 1. 
(of an imperfection) mar, weaken, or invalidate (something)."the computer game was flawed by poor programming"

im a pinball critic, not a scriptwriter !!

how about my failure to capitalize at the beginning of sentences?
how about my failure to use apostrophes?
how about my use of [] instead of parentheses?
its a writing style.

and if you notice, everyone of those improprieties requires fewer keystrokes than what is considered proper/correct. i consider it efficient.

oh, and dont forget about that use of the slashmark separating similar terms to better clarify a thought/point.

#17288 2 years ago

im a pinball critic.

Quoted from TimeBandit:

That's a thing now?

isnt everyone here.

#17296 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

So you are not even mad about the upper R flipper feed? You are just mad that the chestburster shot is difficult so people are not progressing the life cycles in order to achieve 1 multiball out of the 7?

Hilton, quit clowning around trying to make it sound like you know what im thinking. there are probably a good dozen points you'll have to address. and then you'll have to answer to how/why you missed all of them.

only 1 mulitball? would you like to keep guessing? care to check your audits and tell everyone which ones arent getting started?

also note, the version of code running is of little consequence.

the design issue is this: "LACK OF QUALITY FEEDS TO BOTH UPPER FLIPPERS". not just the upper right. but the upper left as well. the existing feeds are undeniably limited and of dubious quality.

dont think there are multiple ramifications/consequences brought on by the lack of quality feeds to the upper flippers. im sure ferret [primarily thru analyzing audit results], has an excellent grasp of where deficiencies lie. Hilton, you on the other hand, came in here claiming you reviewed your machines audits, and found NOTHING wrong or out of balance.

instead you kept posting that shot chart showing 6-7 shots off each upper flipper, "saying look at all the shots, what a great game." what you weren't looking at how they were being fed. even after 6 months of gameplay it never dawned on you just how few quality opportunities you were getting off the upper flippers? anyone who takes the time and reviews all the gameplay video may see that this game plays like a two flipper game, but has four flippers. there is no doubt that people who play this game will eventually realize, 1) that they dont get a fair opportunity to attempt those 6-7 upper flipper shots because their ability to feed them sucks, and 2) that the resulting lack of attempts at key upper flipper shots definitely limits their ability to progress thru/attain several of the games objectives.

my post of the mockup was so people might see what was missing from the current machine - and that was feeds to the upper flippers. it was not my intention to open discussion about redesigning the game, because it is not the actual issue here. it was in the appendix, an illustrative example of a design that would increase quality feeds to both upper flippers. 5 UL, and 3 UR versus the 3 UL [2 being dubious] and 1 UR we have today. and, if that costs you a CB combo shot to the HSR, then its more than a fair trade.

what may not be apparent in that photo is that the left ramp [which can be made from both flippers] would now also feed the UL3 flipper [in green]. the player would have the option to flip UL3 or let the ball pass down the left inlane as it already does. while you may not realize it, this difference is HUGE when it comes to the number of times UL3 is feed. and you know what? it was part of the original Nordman design, but REMOVED. in fact, as already pointed out by another poster, feeds to UL4 were also removed from Nordmans concept. anyone beginning to see how this is starting to come together?

dont get sidetracked on a redesign. the issue here is pointing out the games shortcomings, understanding they will not change, and that we are stuck with a game that has AWFUL UPPER flipper play in almost every respect. haven't even touched on geometry issues yet and whether they can/have been be corrected.

LOWER flipper play - orbits tougher than others but, looks like you can make every shot A-L-L D-A-Y L-O-N-G. forgiving in width, wide open in access. its no wonder advocates talk about shooting combo after combo. IMHO going to be a snoozefest low, frustration on the uppers.

like Tony Soprano says,
while your working over the safe,
"i think were getting close".

hilton, i know i cant stop you from rallying your classmates to jump the bully after schools out, but for all of you who keep piling on, you apparently do not understand just how important designed feeds may be to your games.

Quoted from Whysnow:

can we get this dude thread booted for broken record status if enough people report?


#17309 2 years ago

i already mentioned i wasnt interested in commenting on my redesign, but you wrote a lengthy critique, so here's a response. especially, since i had to address your concerns over the APC targets and vent2 being blocked.

Quoted from Ferret:

Moving the UR flipper to the outer right orbit guide wall isn't without downsides. One that catches my eye is that I suspect placing the flipper there would cause some physical interference with the APC drop targets,

actually, this is what i envisioned, but from a better angle.

alienposted04 (resized).jpg

not only was the current UR4 flipper moved to the orbit, but you may have missed about an inch of guide behind it is cut back to better expose the CB target. im pretty sure you are of the opinion that the 'lifecycle' aspect of the game isnt what was intended. the CB needs to be picked up at a higher rate.

the saucer behind it - thats where one could relocate MUTHUR. more people are going to shoot her straight up the pf, instead of being in the MB 'creature' position. in vent1 put the drop back [or whatever works] from the original concept, for an additional award.
if you really wanted to maintain the lifecycle sequencing, the CB target fronting the eject hole [if previously hit], would reset after egg, then facehugger were collected in order, allowing CB to be collected third. among my suggestions though, would be to drop the sequencing all together. any order of collecting all 4 stages constitutes a lifecycle. completing three per game is no longer unreasonable. which again, im sure you are aware as is a bit of a problem. at the very least consider making an operator option: sequencing on/off.

the weapon target from the right orbit was moved, now posted between the CB lane and right orbit.

re: blocking the APC targets and vent2

Quoted from Ferret:

Also, the Vent 2 shot in GH's diagram is completely blocked by the resting UR flipper...

in the photo below you can see not only is the no interference from the new UR4 position. not only is it nowhere near the APC target bank. the entire vent2 entrance remains clear. if the 'away team' shot down thru vent2 still exists that is only a plus. especially since there is no direct shot to vent2 other than a complete cross-courter from UL3 which currently has only one feed. [and in a prior post you advised not trying for vent2 off UL3 for fear of draining in the right outlane].

the new UR4 location may prevent it from shooting at a center target or two,
but those shots are available from both lower flippers free and clear. nobody is looking to load UR4 for those shots anyway. it exists as the exclusive flipper for the hypersleep ramp [HSR] and vent3 shots.

Quoted from Ferret:

In the current design, Chestburster -> {upper ramp or upper loop} is a fast, fun combo, that gets special treatment in the software:

sorry, but for me, im going to trade a couple combos that are rarely completed by most, for the expanded use of the new right flipper every time.

also, what may not been apparent when you first viewed that image was a desire to have the left ramp feed vent1 as per Nordmans original design [green line]. not too tough for a bunch of smart guys to figure out how to do. the player would have the option to flip UL3 or let the ball pass down the left inlane as it already does, recving credit for weyland. while you may not realize it, this difference is HUGE when it comes to the number of times UL3 is feed. ferret, what is your ratio? left ramp/vent1? a little less than 3?

Quoted from Ferret:

BTW: GH dug up something I wrote 8 months ago about the difficulty of the Chestburster shot. Since then I've obviously played the game lots more. There's no question that this is a harder shot than, say, an orbit or the Airlock. It's a tight lane.

your post i quoted was nearly 100% factual [what shots feed what flippers] and none of that has changed. the only opinion was that the CB was 'difficult'. and now, after a few months of play, you have downgraded it to 'hard'. i would expect that from a top 700 player. in the future, if i quote posts of yours where you said the CB shot is 'difficult', would you like a disclaimer that is has been downgraded to 'hard'? is the HSR shot still 'difficult', as previously posted, or something different now as well?

while you may not know me, understand im not looking to quote you out of context or unfairly. the fact of the matter is, you have been the only one to offer insight into the rules and software changes on this game, and thus, the sole source of information regarding these subjects.

Quoted from Ferret:

Also: a few months ago (after my post that GH quoted) I reduced the power on the Vent 1 eject.

was already aware of this fact.
you posted it 6 months ago.
was absolutely necessary, too.

Quoted from Ferret:

Yes, all three APC drop targets are shootable from the UL flipper... though it's not necessarily a good idea, could cause some wicked side-to-side motion.
BTW, a couple weeks ago I reduced the power on the saucer kickout... makes the ball come out a little slower and thus makes UL flipper shots a bit easier. IMHO nicer for the difficult Chestburster and Vent 2 shots.

aside from a stray ball finding their way into MUTHUR, the CB from UL3 still requires a two shot parlay: lower right to vent1 > UL3 to CB.

#17311 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

so now you guys want a full redesign of the game.

maybe they like what they see.
its just their opinion.

#17315 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

curious, what games have you designed and programmed greenbornet?
you sure are a pro at this and must have lots of experience.

a food critic may not be a master chef, but he eats.
a literary critic may not have written a bestseller, but he reads.
a movie critic may not have directed one, but knows what he sees.
a music critic may never have recorded an album, but he listens.
an art critic may never have produced a masterpiece, but knows when he is moved.

what is your point?
that someone who offers and opinion on a pinball machine is required to have designed or programmed one?

#17316 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

so, what Aliens game have you played/when?

i was just out of camera range you when you did this!! 1:09:36

#17324 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I think Joes estimate is low and once you try to hit it I bet he is successful 50% of the time.

this is a post on CB lane geometry.
i honestly hope these type of issues have been worked out/improved on the newest production models.

when you get so few quality attempts at this shot, then make what appears to be a good one, its got to be frustrating to see it miss and go unrewarded. some are quite brutal.

shot from lower left

those that reach the CB target, but whiff/miss the CB on the left.
1:04:54 / 1:57:58
those that get past UR4, but dont make the CB target because it is choked off in the lane
18:53 / 35:00 / 1:06:40 / 2:12:21 / 2:12:42 / 2:45:33
those that get past UR4 but are viciously rejected
1:20:36 [2 in rapid succession] 2:46:40 / 2:52:37 / 2:56:24

and thats only attempts from the lower left.
now from the upper left.

whiffs by target
1:56:56 / 3:01:55 / 3:07:00 [super whiff]
choked short of target
2:11:20 / 2:55:45 / 2:56:39 / 3:11:16

Hilton, i guess it was the old codes fault. i heard you changed the pitch after this vid was shot and this all went away. perhaps there is a best pitch for smoothing the lane out, but gameplay vids on different machines show the same things happening.

#17325 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am guessing that Greenhornet does not realize there is a proximity sensor in the chestburter lane to register a hit also (assuming this is still in current code/builds) so even if you dont hit a clean shot you will still get credit for making the lane.

bad guess.
ferret disclosed it months ago.
in modern pinball, should we need software assistance that gives one credit for hitting a shot that you dont actually hit? why was this necessary? after toying around with options in the CB lane, they ended up with a design featuring bad geometry. you can see it at work if you watch the video at the timestamps indicated in my previous post.

Hilton, end of your last sentence should read 'upper part of the lane' because:

Quoted from Ferret:

there is no longer a LOWER inductive switch in that lane... remnants of the original Chestburster design.

So Hilton, is your CB lane set to easy or hard?
is your hypersleep MB requirement set to 2 or 3?
how many lifecycles for save newt MB, 2 or 3?
how often is save newt MB getting started? 1 in 50 games?
how often is hypersleep MB getting started? 1 in 20 games?

#17341 2 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

I think it’s important to acknowledge that lifecycle doesn’t need to have shots completed in direct sequence, so can be completed organically as modes are completed, or intentionally.

i believe you will find the LC still requires sequential collection. not sure how you came to believe differently. as such, completing a LC isnt as easy as it would be if one were allowed to pick up all 4 stages at random. while i expect better from players who know what they are shooting for, stats and observations from rec player play show it taking nearly 3 GAMES to complete a SINGLE LC. the factory default to start save newt MB is 3 complete LC in a SINGLE GAME. the audits [over 1350 plays] from a decidedly average player [who probably didnt know how to progress the LC], started save newt MB only ONCE every 60 games. same machine started hypersleep MB only ONCE every 23 games. ambush and sentry guns MB both started ONCE every 4 games. that is a considerable difference. what do you think is causing such a disparity?

in working over the LC, players will quite often get 'stuck' at the CB stage. expect to see your lcd screen showing the egg and facehugger collected, as the player now needs to collect the more 'difficult' CB shot. watch the streams, you will see this screen status active a high percentage of time. also notice the yellow curved arrow between the egg and facehugger images. this indicates to the player the sequential nature of the objective as these arrows point the way to the next stage in the sequence.

alienpf04 (2) (resized).jpg

Quoted from jonesjb:

All multiballs don’t need to be equally accessible, it makes revealing some of the rarer ones more fun.

how rare do you actually want them to be? how difficult is acceptable in order to attain/complete those objectives? 'all out war' is predicated on obtaining both SNMB and HSMB. if individually SNMB/HSMB are overly difficult, together they will be even harder. consequently, reaching 'all out war' becomes more difficult than envisioned.

the points discussed in this post are additional consequences of the 'lack of quality feeds to the upper flippers' problem.

#17359 2 years ago
Quoted from ezeltmann:

And a MUTHA award can help you along.

Quoted from Ferret:

I also recently made Mother more likely to award "Advance Lifecycle" when the Chestburster is lit to help with this.

as the development team realized the CB and LC completion were coming in less than expected, compensatory software adjustments were necessary to help alleviate this issue. the consequences of too few ops to shoot at the CB [due to lack of feeds] and the fact that the CB target was getting missed too often [due to the geometry of the CB lane], were becoming evident. this should have been apparent in the audits [LC completed, SNMB started], and by observing streams.

nice adjustment, and in the right direction, but compensatory nevertheless.

#17363 2 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

It's amazing the lengths some will go to in order to spread venom. I have a strong suspicion as to what the drive is and who is involved ( as Im sure most on here have the same vibe).

mark, in many of your posts in this thread your extrapolated guess work abounds, and the conclusions you reach/speculate on are often dead wrong. that style is pretty worthless to readers. 600+ posts and your true contributions are minimal.

your kid in the candy store posts over this game since the start of this thread are overwhelming and mostly

Quoted from MK6PIN:

just expressing enthusiasm...


your unrelenting support and perception of HP and Andy were incorrect

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Also did research on Heighway a bit first, and in no way does this Company resemble some of the insanity going on elsewhere on Pinside. Andrew is not a startup, by any stretch...

Quoted from MK6PIN:

I can't think of a title that appeals to me more...had to go for it, once I knew that Andrew and Company were legit....

Quoted from MK6PIN:

I pm w Andrew about bi weekly, and from what I can tell, he more than has his Sh..t together. Assembly line already getting ready to roll for FT....and Alien WILL be coming!!! This guy MAKES GAMES!!!

Quoted from MK6PIN:

this company in no way/ shape/form resembles anything close to the other criminal, preorder fiascos.....easy for me to see this early on.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Heighways business model and whatever you want to call the JPop fiasco couldn't be further apart on infinite levels...

Quoted from MK6PIN:

I suspect Alien is much further along than we think... We may all be surprised how quickly things move after that. They are definitely implementing some impressive manufacturing techniques already... No one wants this title more than me.

took a long time for you to finally change your tune

Quoted from MK6PIN:

I'm very grateful this ship didn't tank when it could very well have.......

i am spreading facts, not venom. if anyone hurt the alien cause it was you by presenting unsubstantiated information and opinions. based on your comments, others might have been making some very poor decisions regarding this game and company.

and still you continue to speculate. this is the latest pot shot youve taken at me without having any idea who i am - but still you take a guess [or even worse, portend to make one] - in that MK6PIN style.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

You are not adding any value here, quite the opposite....not even opinion based ( more like a " know it all" approach).
The more I read of your posts, the more certain I am of who you are ( or connected to)...Im sure a certain podcast would appreciate your "higher knowledge" on this title, but not in this thread

cant help it if you are a guess/speculate guy and im a logical/facts guy. perhaps i come across as i a "know it all" because i present facts, which are inherently known to be true and not up for debate.

#17388 2 years ago

Quoted from Hazoff:He's certainly Kanedish.

and youre certainly Canada-ish. .

mapleleaf02 (resized).jpg

#17391 2 years ago

But Johnny didn't care,
He was an outlaw by the time that he was ten years old,
He didn't want to do what he was told
Just a prankster, juvenile gangster.

It's not his fault that he can't behave
Society's made him go astray
Perhaps if we're nice, he'll go away
Perhaps he'll go away
He'll go away

onlyalad (resized).jpg

#17392 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

what is his name?

told you once, its Britt.
is that really going to help?
being able to refer to me by a first name?

#17393 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

No, what you are posting is opinion...not facts. And a very skewed opinion at that. How the game is laid out is a fact; that the layout sucks is your opinion.

Quoted from greenhornet:

software/sound truly top notch.

Quoted from greenhornet:

it has nothing to do with the lower flippers.
in fact, ... ill grade lower flipper play an 'A'.
it entirely revolves around upper flipper play, which is pretty close to an 'F'.

lets recap. thats sound, software, lower flipper play about as positive as you can get. upper flipper play about as negative as you can get. its skewed alright, 3 to the positive. :roll

Quoted from Astropin:

How the game is laid out is a fact.

thanks for telling everyone that the layout is a fact.
my PREMISE is based on that FACT.
the game, as it is laid out, "LACKS QUALITY FEEDS TO THE UPPER FLIPPERS". if you want to consider that an opinion rather than an observable fact. be my guest. but have a look first.

alienpf01 (3)_LI (resized).jpg

theres all your flipper feeds to the uppers. ONE feed from each of the lowest 3 flippers. how much lower can we go? if we take away one feed from any single flipper we have ZERO feeds from that flipper. ONE is as low as you can go and still have something. gotta believe the best position to take is we are lacking or limited in feeds here. in addition, it is my contention the LL to CB is low percentage, and the purple crosscourter [UL3 to CB] often requires two shots - the first which is off LR to the MUTHUR saucer, which most rec players arent even bothering with because they have an op to shoot the 1] right ramp, 2] xeno head, 3] airlock, 4] left ramp with LL before it reaches the tip of LR to even shoot MUTHUR.

Quoted from Astropin:

the layout sucks is your opinion.

did i say that the layout sucks.?
please produce.
dont infer.
i'll admit if im wrong.

i did run across one post where i said the ability to feed the upper flippers 'sucks'.

Quoted from greenhornet:

1) that [players] dont get a fair opportunity to attempt those 6-7 upper flipper shots because their ability to feed them sucks

so, ability: the possession of the means or skill to do something. layout: the way in which the parts of something are arranged or laid out. two different things.

i told you exactly why i posted that image and its purpose.

Quoted from greenhornet:

a crude drawing of a hypothetical playfield. consider it an example of 'what could have been done differently'. compare with alien. see if you can find a particular design element that is missing

it was solely for people to discover/realize that aliens upper flippers were
lacking feeds. nothing more. it was labelled as 'hypothetical' and 'what could have been'. it was put out there to say, "here is an example of a game with more feeds". in retrospect, i should have used the YT video of Keith Elwins archer, as it was also among my examples on how to feed upper flippers. 6 shots/flips feed the UR here, 2 the UL [2"]. he manages to do this on a standard, no less. alien is 6" wider.

it was others who took my image in a different direction, considering it to be a redesign suggestion. i never asked HP to redo the game. my contention lies with the game as it stands today. in FACT, i made a effort to quash the redesign talk immediately.

Quoted from greenhornet:

questions to be discussed and answered [many unrelated to this image, so dont dwell on it too much].

Quoted from greenhornet:

dont get sidetracked on a redesign. the issue here is pointing out the games shortcomings, understanding they will not change,

Quoted from greenhornet:

i already mentioned i wasnt interested in commenting on my redesign, but you wrote a lengthy critique, so..

#17396 2 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

his passive aggressive BS

poker player, eh? that definition i understand.

Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

attacks on other pinsiders, just to stir the pot. And calling out Mark for his years of optimism? Way over the line.

understand this. the first time he clearly insinuated i was Kaneda, i gave him a COMPLETE PASS.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

This is ridiculous.....if you're not interested in the game, move on. If you want to inject speculative " fact based" drama, not interested.
You are not adding any value here, quite the opposite....not even opinion based ( more like a " know it all" approach).
The more I read of your posts, the more certain I am of who you are ( or connected to)...Im sure a certain podcast would appreciate your "higher knowledge" on this title, but not in this thread....thanks

at the time, i responded to him respectfully with a detailed explanation of my motivations, which havent changed much and will be repeated for @spxfted.

the second time, he didnt get a pass. and if you dont consider the manner in which i handled it as tactful and reserved; then to each his own.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Then for the record, he can state who he is, and his relationship with him.

i have listened to perhaps 3 of his podcasts and watched his MG YT vids.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

There is only a single person that Im aware creating a calculated, venomous effort to undermine the game....Kanada...period.

sounds like you seem to him a lot better than i do

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Doubt we will get a fact filled, detailed answer here.

youre kidding right?
greenhornet does not give fact filled, detailed answers?

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Nothing factually about anything you have posted

you need to do some rereading.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

A fanboy, Im not.

im going to be nice and only post 4. if people want to go look up the rest, they can knock themselves out.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

there hasn't been anything like Alien....the time period in my life, the impact that flick had from a Sci-Fi/ Horror standpoint...for me, it's game over!!!... this license w this designer screams win/ win,...come on man ALIEN LE !!!!

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Alien is simply the only title that really, really does it for me. I just can't imagine it being anything less than a drool machine, so had to do it..

Quoted from MK6PIN:

I keep watching Alien movies on occasion, and look at the spot where it's going to sit in my gameroom....when this thing shows, it's going to be deadly!!!!

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Was able to get the # I wanted, and assured of getting an LE, which for this Title, is a must, for me. $1500.00 refundable deposit until my game is made ( from a real manufacturer) was a no brainer...

#17397 2 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

Perhaps a summary short and sweet to share
would allow more understanding.

regarding my motivations, this was posted about 2 months ago and remains true today. the only difference now is that some people dont like what they are hearing.

Quoted from greenhornet:

i am a nobody, but do consider myself a pinball critic. someone who has played during five decades, knows what he likes, can see what doesn't look right, etc. you want to talk ridiculous, let's talk ridiculous. people are spending ridiculous amounts of money for these games. they should be as informed as possible to any and all circumstances surrounding the purchase of any $6K-9K machine [not just alien]. my observations are exactly that, a point worth considering when it comes to purchasing this title. even if people choose to dismiss it, at least they were aware of it and better prepared to make an informed decision.
while everybody has been discussing theme, art, sound, Andrew's promises, the survival of the company, pricing, it is not surprising that they may miss something in the game play. not everyone is breaking down videos, the history of the playfield's development, and subsequent/ongoing software updates to arrive at a conclusion. if i can point out something that i feel is worthwhile and a help to others in a logical, intelligent, factual manner - i'm going to do it. nobody who is associated with this game - nobody who is an advocate for this game - is going to tell you. who are you going to hear it from??

#17643 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

if you have not realized by now, nobody is bothered by his opinon. It is the 3 month build up, the fact that he has not even played a single game on Alien (all his analysis from wathcing streams of production games with players that are learning the game), and his posturing as some sort of pro on design when he obviously has very little clue to the reality of what has gone into making the produciton machine.

how many times have you parroted this viewpoint over and over?
pinside definition of broken record:
Repeating the same viewpoint over and over is annoying and does not add to the discussion. Please stop it, we've heard you the first time.

Quoted from Whysnow:

xeno work?
all lights work?

piece of work?

#17644 2 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

His purpose is agenda driven, period (coming from an adult who is very in tune to this type of activity) and not appreciated on my behalf.

MK6PIN appeared to be ready to give us a lesson on questionable behavior but stopped short, settling for the buzz words [agenda driven]. not a single thought of any substance - even though it appears he is quite certain. for those hoping to learn something about questionable behavior, the above is an example of insinuation. and the following, an example of hypocrisy.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Greenhornet's comments are all based on his observations and perceived "truths" about gameplay... and yes his statements are OPINION.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

This is ridiculous.....if you're not interested in the game, move on. If you want to inject speculative " fact based" drama, not interested.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

the purpose of your posting is to bring what to this thread? I speculate venom. Now go away.


Quoted from MK6PIN:

Never worry about posting your opinion...that's what pinside is about, and someone will always have a different one. it's healthy.



a few days ago, i gave you two large paragraphs detailing my motivations. still, you speculate that i have some 'agenda' different than what i laid out for you. im sure a few people would love to hear it.

1 week later
#18202 2 years ago

halloween01 (2).jpgghosts01 (2).jpg

#18205 2 years ago
Quoted from Indypin:

I hate hearing about pinsiders waiting for refunds and no communication and I blame the Predator fiasco for this.

the only reason people are waiting for refunds and/or communication is because the new investors are still there. if Andrew had closed shop, nobody would be waiting for anything today. but to blame HP's poor customer service on Predator?? now that's a stretch.

#18268 2 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Oh boy, the dreaded word 'try' which usually means ( meta-language ) someone is telling you in advance they are going to fail.
Just say 'will' instead.

do or do not, there is no try.

#18289 2 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

The guy absconded after taking money for something he never provided. He didn't declare insolvency or sell his crap to pay people back or even apologize as far as I have seen. Stop defending the loser.

didnt stop the collective here from making Andrew Heighway the all time thumbs up percentage leader in the history of pinside.

267 posts in this thread.

5781 thumbs up
12 thumbs down......... 99.8%.

#18301 2 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

At least let the Andrew thing go. That's done. It's over Johnny.

i understand Andrews legacy may be a difficult topic for you. after sifting through your 650+ predominately wisecracking posts, one would find that you were one of Andrews biggest backers, even in the face of damning evidence. it took you a long time to finally stop giving him the benefit of the doubt and lay low on the subject, apparently shamed when he finally stepped down by taking a full month off from posting in this thread.

how much goodwill did Andrew buy just because he hand delivered a FT to you at a trade show? quite a bit, i gather, by how adamant you were that he and his company could do little wrong based solely on the fact that he had made/delivered only a small number of physical games.

Quoted from Wickerman2:

Met Andrew at RMPS. He was nice enough to deliver my Full Throttle to me since he was coming to show(he actually held on to it for a few months until I was able to take delivery which was cool as well). We assembled the game and he walked me through all of it/double checked it was all working and then broke it down and even helped me load it in my vehicle.

Quoted from Wickerman2:

I've ordered and received a pinball machine. My information is based on that experience.

in the end, like so many others, your support for Andrew was proven wrong. and yet today, you still watch over him by asking others to take their displeasure elsewhere. sorry he fell short of your expectations.

when responding to legitimate concerns, especially shortly before Andrew stepped down, you told people 'dont worry. all is well', but with an attitude that was often both flippant and nonchalant. today, we know that position was tenuous.

March 2017 2v 16^

Quoted from Wickerman2:

Nobody is getting scammed by Heighway... The game's late but does exist obviously. They were a bit disorganized with a few refunds but that's getting sorted out... The head of the company actually visits the forum and talks to you...

We are still talking about buying a big toy essentially right? That's supposed to be fun. I think the company has been verified enough to relax slightly. It's really not that serious, all things considered planetarily speaking these days.

Quoted from Wickerman2:

your overall tone STRONGLY suggests that people be worried/afraid/cautious/terror level orange at least. I'm probably way off and you can post another head in the sand pic...which, logically would come across as there is "something" to have my head in the sand about (which there is not). See what I mean?
It's not a big deal either way...

June 2017

Quoted from Wickerman2:

Dear Heighway,
Please hold my hand and tell me it's OK daily via this thread or I will will freak out even though you are shipping games.

Quoted from Wickerman2:

You'll either get your refund back or you won't. People will get their games or they won't.

2 weeks later
#18559 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

You don't have a machine do you?

if you don't know whether Kneissl has a machine or not, youre not following this thread close enough.

#18620 2 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Come'on guys, where are the gameplay videos?!

20 standards delivered to North America and a number to Europe around a month ago and still next to nothing?

Quoted from TimeBandit:

if anyone has to bail out the manufacturing they will get it for a song and make a boatload of cash out of it.

if bally/williams couldnt continue as a going concern in the pinball biz selling several thousand copies of multiple titles per year, what makes you think selling a few hundred of a single title every year or so from a foreign location is going to 'make a boatload of cash'?

Quoted from Lame33:

Maybe this is the real turning point for Heighway.

Quoted from spfxted:

The turning point for Heighway is when they issue all the requested refunds, get people the service and parts they were promised and communicate better.

a real turning point will be when they can produce and sell enough machines to turn a profit. they appear to be far from that. selling several hundred machines a year isnt going to turn things around any time soon.

Quoted from Whysnow:

They need to show they can support the customer base as promised. Once they can do that then people will gain the confidence to buy in droves.

whatever 'droves' they had sold, they have refunded quite a number of them; many who are so upset that they will not be back to purchase even if the game is made in numbers. and if you are paying attention, another circumstance that appears to be taking place is that a few more LE buyers/depositors are requesting refunds quite recently. whether that is from impatience, lack/omission of extras on the LE model, uncertainty regarding QC/communication/support, alternative choices in the NIB market, or something they read/saw in the gameplay; i dont know why they are changing their minds.

#18623 2 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Is that what happened? I thought the story was that B/W was still turning at least some profit on pinball until the end, but read the writing on the wall on the prospects of arcades in the 2000s and saw better returns to be made making gambling machines, so shifted their attentions in that direction.

my statement didnt say they were unprofitable. it said they 'couldnt continue as a going concern in the pinball biz'; which you are confirming.

#18625 2 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Maybe they were finally convinced about that gameplay issue you discovered plaguing playability potential?

do not make light of the lack of feeds to the upper flippers issue. safe to say i am far ahead of the curve on this, and the majority are way behind. i could/can see the future regarding the dysfunctional upper flipper/playfield play while others were in complete denial [confirmation bias], instead choosing to focus on whether a freighter could negotiate the atlantic and whether CT was blowing smoke [ship had already arrived]. the dribs and drabs i presented of my argument were designed to encourage people to 'think' through my points. i didnt work. some people apparently need to be spoon fed. in the end, its not going to be pretty. if you revisit my original quote it was prefaced by the words 'given time' as in:

Quoted from greenhornet:

given time, people will come to understand there are aspects of alien's physical design that severely hamper overall playability.

i didnt expect it to be so soon, but those receiving production games are already commenting on elements of the various issues. most of them do not yet realize how serious they really are. lets take a look at some from the game reviews of alien provided from posters who garner more respect than myself.

from T-800 :
My biggest issue(s) with the game is that the upper right flipper does not have a consistent shot to feed it, and that flipper is critical for the extra ball and super jackpots and other shots during the game. you have to get lucky in getting a shot to feed the flipper properly (even a combo of right lower flipper to the mid left flipper to the upper right flipper is not 100% as the ball often will bounce into the pops and out instead of hitting the target and then coming back down to the upper right flipper).

from kneissl :
The hardest single shot is the chestburster (up the lane just left of the right flipper) it's doable from the lower left flipper, but we're talking Tron gem shot, I doubt anyone can rely on hitting it this way. Fortunately this is easier (but not easy) to hit from the upper left flipper... Hypersleep multiball is started from shooting the apc drop targets then hitting the upper left ramp 3 times. I've only gotten it started a few times... Save Newt multiball is started by doing 3 lifecycles, which involves shooting all over the playfield including the chestburster. So far this seems very hard to start. I've only really played this once so far.

from jlm33 :
Cons : Odd layout (feeding the upper flipper is not easy)...dark GI.

from Boat :
The layout wasn't really working for me. The extra flippers didn't do much for adding value to the gameplay.

From Yoski :
The upper left flipper is of marginal usage... The game is way too dark which makes it difficult to follow the ball... [the bottom flippers] up angle is very minimal which makes it challenging to cradle the ball.

understand that sprinkled throughout this thread are contrasting comments from the design team implying/indicating that aliens gameplay was not intended to be overly difficult - certainly not so difficult to elicit the type of comments we are, and will be seeing.

and here is a post from one of my detractors describing how he set a personal best score by making all the LOWER pf shots over and over.

Quoted from Astropin:

New personal best this evening...I was just rippin on "Sentry Guns"...outer lanes, outer lanes, outer lanes, center shot, hole shot...repeat.

on a disappointing note, the lack of gameplay video from the recent shipment of production machines doesnt provide new opportunities to point out how all the points i have already made still/do exist. but here some footage from a month ago posted oct 15, 2017.

every quality attempt at the CB target is a choke short in the lane or a whiff due to the poor lane geometry. he connects once on a ricochet from the pops at 8:34 and goes on to complete ONE lifecycle. zero CB hits from LL or UL3.

shot from the lower left, chokes at 5:58, 6:35, 6:56, 8:39.
whiff by target into pops at 9:35.
and a vicious reject at 6:56.

2 successful HSR shots with no locks at 2:17 and 6:00.

summary: no SNMB, no HS MB, no HS locks, no EB, no direct CB hits, one LC.

and i still cant forget some of you laughing at me when i told you early on the game was too dark, which just about everyone is on board with now. so here is another lighting suggestion.


#18636 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

at this point he spent months of build up on a dissertation to claim that the fatal flaw of the game was he cant get the ball to the upper right flipper.

that dissertation? im willing to create a thread of its own for everyone to read/address. i feel its too important to get lost/buried in this one. im confident a number of people will look back 6 months/a year from now and have reassessed their opinions on this particular aspect of the game. perhaps they will be saying 'see look at all the software adjustments ferret had to make to make this game more playable'. perhaps they will be saying 'look how nobody bought the game due to this or that', 'look how many are for sale for this or that reason'. perhaps they will be saying 'look at all the unfavorable comments buyers/owners/players have made over the last year that stem from the assertions greenhornet presented 12 months ago'. im not certain what they will be saying, but they will be saying something.

have it your way Hilton. its a shame you still dont understand all the fallout/ramifications of this design choice. they are many. perhaps you will be hearing from Dave Sanders personally due to your unyielding stubornness.

#18649 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Care to make a wager Mr.Hornet? Regardless if Heighway makes a lot more or only a small number, the value will rise over time because it's such a fun game. That's my call.

did i make a prediction on future valuation somewhere?

what are you suggesting we bet on?
that price will rise/drop over time?
and i my only option is to take the downside?

here is one of my calls.
if you believe the game is FUN as it sits now,
the game woulda/coulda/shoulda been A LOT FUNNER.

so far none of the reviewers has stepped up and praised the upper flipper play on this machine. if anything, the comments reflect the opposite. what they are raving about are the sound, code, and immersion; the first two i have always agreed with, the third wouldnt matter much to me.

#18652 2 years ago
Quoted from kklank:

Let me get this straight. Your call is the "game woulda/coulda/shoulda been A LOT funner." Are you serious?

Let me get this straight.

you didnt read what i wrote.
this is ONE of my calls.
and i only phrased that way in response to astropin, matching his use of 'thats my call'.

it was not THE call.
you must not be following the thread close enough if you are unaware of what THE call is.

glad you are enjoying your game.
i gather youve had it a least a month, if not more.
finally reached SNMB for the first time.
how many games did that take?

#18681 2 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

Nice downvote?

Quoted from Ferret:

Broke my 100%

for those who keep score of such things,
andrew was 1519 - 0 before getting his first downvote.

#18692 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

because ... everyone knows what you're referring to


British Columiba
Boston College
Bank of Canada
birth control
be careful
breast cancer
birth certificate
before Christ
boot camp
business card
board certified
book club
bar code
Baja California
Bill Clinton
British Commonwealth
Boston Celtics
blue cheese
body count
Betty Crocker
beauty contest
basket case
big cheese
booty call
Black Crows
bacon cheeseburger


1 week later
#18823 2 years ago
Quoted from SunKing:

all this talk about the 'major design flaw' of how there is no reliable clean feed to the upper right flipper and hence, hard to complete lifecycle or get Hypersleep MB. That's BS. I just played about 10 games, and I got Lifecycle multiball twice.

glad to hear that after 8 months of ownership you are getting something accomplished. 8 months, and you can finally admit to completing a certain primary objective in 2 out of 10 games? thats not very reassuring. especially when you apparently have your MB thresholds set to easy.

Quoted from SunKing:

BTW, I have all my multi-balls set to 'easy'... with that setting, it's only takes two life-cycles to start Save Newt, and only two captured balls to start Hpersleep ..

and the talk is about hampered playability due to design choices, and remains quite evident. current game reviews express frustration with the upper flipper play and are not BS. why do you think you adjusted your SNMB and HSMB thresholds down? why do you think there have been no gameplay videos posted by all these new owners over the last month?

Quoted from Ferret:

After 12X (4+2+6) bonus multiplier is lit, the next completion of the L-V lanes will light extra ball. (An additional path to EB has been added in pending code.)

Quoted from Join_The_Cirqus:

will light The extra ball on the Hypersleep Ramp

a necessary software adjustment because 1] advancing the bonus multiplier is difficult because balls don't drop into pops inlanes often enough [even worse due to up posts currently malfunctioning] and 2] the lit EB is on the HSR and we already know objectives requiring HSR shots are coming up short.

the original EB programming was clearly too unreasonable to complete. 7 completions of the A-B lanes and then a HSR shot? really? GL with that. nice to see more ways to obtain an EB. expect to see more. an early prototype audit on youtube recorded only 7 EBs in 1350 plays.

Quoted from Whysnow:

anyone that says that is a complete dummy (or troll; or both)

perhaps i am just simpleminded.

Hilton, don't take your anger out on me because you currently own a $7000 paperweight. further, i wasnt among those who flagged your TNA review. any mod/admin has my permission to confirm this fact for you.

Quoted from kklank:

I almost never hit the chestburster shot with the lower left flipper. I hit it with the upper .. flipper or kick from the pops.

Quoted from kklank:

I've taken off the glass and have just repeatedly tried to hit that from a trapped position and it's a bear.

in addition, ive had at least one owner tell me they don't even count the LL to CB as a feed because it is so hard.

Hilton and ferret disagree.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I can set up the upper right flipper anytime I have the ball on the lower left flipper. It is a clean shoot to the dead end and a nice return to upper right.

Quoted from Ferret:

the CB shot. It's a tight lane. But I'd guess that I can make this shot from a trapped ball on the LL flipper about 1/3 of the time. (Sometime when I'm bored, I'll try it 100 times and record stats...)

Quoted from Whysnow:

I agree that the chestburster shot is more difficult than others but if you are going for it then it is totally makeable. I think Joes estimate is low and once you try to hit it I bet he is successful 50% of the time.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I will make it a point to stop over some time this week to play some Alien and track my success % for the CB shot.

neither reported back to the board with their results.

while it doesn't make any sense, perhaps this shot is more difficult on production machines than the prototypes. at least it appears so, based on feedback and posted pinside reviews of the game. 'whys now' is it that people are disagreeing with Hiltons position that the shot is easy peasy ?

because 'given time, people will come to understand...'

#18835 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

-Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.-

that 'simpleminded' reference?
i was having fun at someone elses expense.
i expected it to go right over your head, which it did.
for the rest of you:


#18843 2 years ago
Quoted from Ferret:

Ummmm... the obvious YouTube search gives:

obvious search reveals nothing.

the virgin 10:00 of play from someone who doesn't know what they are shooting for that is shot from the side of the machine is nothing to write home about.

what I am hoping for, at least time and experience wise, is something like the 3+ hours dead flip streamed with Hilton from Alt Brew, the cumulative 2+ hours that flippin podcast has posted, or the 2+ hours provided by buffalo pinball. these were from over 6 months ago on prototype machines. they were all shot with cameras directly over the pf. the experience levels of the players in them is above average and in the case of 'flippin', he knows what he is trying to accomplish.

with only a handful of prototypes in the wild 6+ months ago, those game provided nearly 10 hours of coverage from experienced players. today, with dozens of actual production machines worldwide, we have but a couple disappointing <10:00 snippets.

of the five links joe posted [had seen them all before]:

the first shows only 8:00 of gameplay [most time spent on unboxing] if you view it they complain about setting up the upper right flipper and being able to see the flippers on the pfs dark art.

the second doesn't display anything other than the top of the back box for 7:00 on both IE and chrome browsers.

the third shows approx. 10:00 of gameplay, with no noticeable upper flipper usage/CB lane activity probably due to inexperience with the game.

the fourth is only 2:00 long
same guy took down/removed a 10:00+ one that was a brickfest.

the fifth is also quite limited in time, but the best of the lot. I had already broken it down days ago in post number 18625. nobody cared to refute any of the observations made in that video. but I gave them a window to make fun of my grammar, which apparently was more important.

joe, the links you've provided are nothing worthy. perhaps you should at least scan/view those vids to see if they provide any worthwhile content before posting them like they might be meaningful.

waiting for the SDTM update.

1 week later
#18954 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Can anyone tell me if that massive wall off text actually said anything coherent?

something I took away from @nethawk86s post was that as far as CT and delivery of Heighway games goes, this latest shipment is, once again, right on schedule.

#18956 2 years ago
Quoted from VividPsychosis:

Latest shipment is released and will arrive to CT on Tuesday....I don’t know who all is getting one from that shipment aside from me.

if all machines are not spoken for, it would be sacrilegious if whysnows replacement isnt among them.

2 weeks later
#19255 2 years ago

perhaps i missed something.
what became of brian allens original backglass work?

#19312 2 years ago

good decision.
blue is my favorite color.
but im only going to say it once.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

This one will be blue.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

I'm getting the blue f**k it....have too many green and black games.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

I just keep hoping in a dim room, the blue somehow reflects off the blue EL blades. Green is out..have enough great green ones

Quoted from MK6PIN:

If the blue truly looks like ass in a playing environment, Ill just change it.....but gotta give it a whirl..

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Im going blue or unfinished if they let me....I know what black looks like.....

Quoted from MK6PIN:

swear I like the blue the more I look at it.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

The black they are offering is identical to the standards, so blue it is...

Quoted from MK6PIN:

just wanting a blue LE game now.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

When they send me an invoice and ship date, I may waffle to black, but blue for now

#19344 2 years ago
Quoted from Frli002:

LE#85 with black trims

does not appear you got a free upgrade to PDI/roman/magic glass.
so trim, a plaque, and a couple beacons.
how was your backbox LCD screen accounted for?

#19373 2 years ago
Quoted from robotron:

where are the le's. enough is enough!!

in the interim, perhaps this will suffice:

powdercoat01 (resized).jpg
a plaque
plaque01 (resized).jpg
two bee-cons
beecon01 (resized).jpg
shaker motor
shakermotor01 (resized).jpg
side blades
sideblades02 (resized).jpg
a screen in the back
screenedin01 (resized).jpg
limited edition art
LEart02 (resized).jpg
and no magic glass
magicgirl02 (resized).jpg

#19383 2 years ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

(btw, greenhornet, I switched to black w PDI...may want to capture that).....

copy that rouge leader..

nearly a dozen posts in a couple days time drooling over blue, and a week later youve vacillated back to black. point: you've claimed, on occasion, that my posts add nothing the discussion. what exactly did repeating your color choice so many times during your 'blue' period add to the discussion? and now that you are [at least temporarily] no longer going with blue, that makes all those redundant posts even more of a waste of the readerships time.

did you switch because I told you blue was my favorite color?

1 week later
#19596 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

I noticed that sometimes when I try to hit the chestbuster shot (to get life cycle credit) from the mid left flipper the ball goes so fast and is guided by that metal wall right up and spills out to the left right into pops. It actually will not even go over the switch or hit the target b/c that wall seems to guide it away from both and up left.
My point is if you hit that area with the mid left flipper properly it's not a given that you're going to hit that chestburster switch or target. Was this intentional?

some people were noting issues like this months ago,
just from viewing gameplay videos.
they tried to let you know what to expect,
but nobody seemed to care.

#19645 2 years ago
Quoted from Makakka:

that stoner from California

can fix anything

1 week later
#19760 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

All these fanboys claiming "best quality machine ever" can't see straight through their Alien glasses.


#19769 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Play this game every night and it's still impressing me. It is truly something special. Just love the attention to detail in the sound and video package. The effects are so incredible and as an owner of stern, JJP as well, I love the way the game feels. It def has it's own unique feel to it and it just feels great. What a game. Hopefully some new owners will be heading in soon. They can't produce this game fast enough.

out of respect for those still awaiting delivery or in possession of currently dysfunctional games you had been asked to temper your excitement when it comes to having received and being able to play a functional game. you kinda said you would honor that request; but with posts like this one, youre kinda not.

Quoted from delt31:

They can't produce this game fast enough.

I believe everyone is already aware of that fact.

#19881 2 years ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I think the time is ripe... People are edgy and it's understandable how doubt and negativity can creep into a vacuum. Continued silence with minimal action will only incite more of that.

the latest word out of Wales ...

wales02 (resized).jpg

1 week later
#20081 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

we have decided that all early pre-orders will receive an exclusive (X?) that will be included with your game and only those pre-ordered games will get (X?).

perhaps HP can send them one of these.
does anybody know anything about this?

alienvault (resized).jpg

comingsoon06 (resized).jpg

#20085 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

come on... you cant just make wild accusations and then not have any proof... that would make you a hypocrite.

does this assessment of deeproot qualify?

Quoted from Whysnow:

so it is all a scam to TRY and get people already duped to give you more deposit money and pot in to another JPOP scam

#20112 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I think you forgot something on that quote you intentionally altered...


Quoted from Whysnow:

so it is all a scam to TRY and get people already duped to give you more deposit money and pot in to another JPOP scam ???

sorry, i didnt interpret it as a question.

IS IT a scam??? would be a question.

IT IS a scam.. reads as definitive... with the question marks indicating the cloud of wonderment hanging over your head as you contemplate whether you really believe what you just wrote.

if i ask someone if they are simpleminded or a know-it-all, am i garnering sufficient protection against repercussions simply because i phrased that thought in the form of a question ??? if so, please dont turn me in if/when i use ???

1) is bullwinkle mr. know-it-all ???
2) bullwinkle is mr. know-it-all.
3) bullwinkle is mr. know-it-all ???

1) how you should have worded it.
2) how you came across.
and 3)
hmmm... perhaps your are right.
is see what you did there. number 3.
here are your question marks.


you win the grammar contest.
on the other hand, do you really think 3 questions marks at the end of your statement takes away from whatever you were trying to convey with that deeproot post ??? hardly, it only serves to further your reputation while at the same time skirting the ideals you try to hold others to.

the more significant point to be made is that the deeproot matters you alluded to were uninformed, unjustified, and without proof. you clearly didnt take the time to read the terms of the offer [deeproot was not asking for additional 'deposit money'] and ignored any/all evidence that the company is moving forward as opposed to becoming 'another JPOP scam'.

#20148 2 years ago

the magnet action is readily apparent throughout the 3+ hour dead flip stream of Hiltons prototype. lots of shots taken at the xeno. below is a timestamp featuring ben heck and two reactions in about 30 seconds, the second of which sends the ball into the pops.

also working on Join the Cirqus' machine, another prototype:

unfortunately, some gameplay video of more recent machines exhibit little to NO effect at all, which has now been confirmed by owners of newer production machines. hopefully, it can be remedied through software settings.

1 month later
#20484 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

The key to your situation like west coast to UK is to have someone on the east coast competent enough to be a middle man with actual authority and brains to be able to represent either side to each other.

that would have been melissa/cointaker, right?

#20486 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Why would you suggest a reseller be part of the internal managememt?

i know you are sharp enough to read between the lines of my comment.

2 weeks later
#20669 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

When I was being f—ed over, and I was watching other people get screwed it was pretty damn frustrating to contractually bound to not be able to say a thing. I couldn't even criticize Heighway in any way, language was written into what I signed.

sounds like you missed an opportunity
to step up and become pinballs Edward Snowden.

#20853 2 years ago

here is a recent two week old [April 9, 2018] stream of Alien from London.
perhaps one of the newer production models delivered to Europe.

Quoted from Rensh:

Playing Alien tonight and for the second time in 2 weeks the 50VAC 6.3AT fuse blew with no apparent reason.

Quoted from NeilMcRae:

the one we have in London its doing that. put lower fuses in the other slots in the hope one of those blows so fault can be traced.

#20874 2 years ago

whos responsibility was it to get a manual out?

the game designer has been there the entire time.
is he continuing to work over one of Barry Ourslers designs for HP#3,
or has he been relegated to assembling alien machines?

#20927 2 years ago

aliensassedkicked (resized).jpg

#20942 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Will I get a game? ... Who knows... I've pretty much let it go.

Quoted from Aurich:

To be totally honest I have no idea what I'd even do with it should it show up... Right now I'd be happy for one more pre-order buyer to have the game instead. Like you!

Quoted from Aurich:

I am talking with an import broker about my machine, so in theory if nothing else I'll get my game out of all this ...

#20957 2 years ago
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:

Imagine the good will if he were to donate it to some type of good cause like that Pinball raffle thing...

could also save the freight if he donated it to a cause over there.

#20971 2 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Play until it breaks and then ...

part it out for a net profit.

#21042 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'd like it if people got a chance to play it at shows.

reportedly there will be one at the Golden State Pinball Festival in Lodi, CA.
in not 2, but 3 weeks. May 18-20, 2018.

Quoted from drypaint:

The Flipper Room will have a booth at the show with a host of pinball art, framing, TFR merch, and... our Alien pinball machine for y'all to enjoy.

#21360 2 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

Now let’s see if the two biggest HP cheerleaders who downvoted and reported any post remotely questioning Andrews status and HP as a whole come out of the woodwork.....

as of today, whose side are you on?

iron maiden or wickerman2.

ironmaiden01 (resized).jpg

#21364 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

still not yours...

why in the world would I want you on my side?

some of us are curious. how much of a reward are you offering for someone to go to Wales and locate a few playfields and a box of parts?

#21368 2 years ago
Quoted from hansj66:

Status update:
Like I posted earlier, we have paid in full for an Alien SE back in 2016.
We actually recevied a call from Roger Svanevik today. Basically to tell us that we where fucked and that our money was lost.
But,... it turns out that the CT container was for real. When the CT-deal fell through, these machines were sold elsewhere.
It also turns out that Umbrella Corporation has Alien LEs for sale. Free-Play.se also has Alien LEs for sale (Both these distributors are owned by people who are owners / have representation in the board of directors at both Heighway Pinball and Pinball Brothers.)
Roger Svanevik then offered to sell us an Alien Pinball. This time an LE.
This is the same guy who assured us that Heighway would ship our game by the end of 2017.

c'mon man, April fools day was 26 days ago.

#21729 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Where are the "compromises"?

apparently you received the real 'limited edition',
one of the few uncompromised examples.

#21883 2 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

I cannot justify that price tag for what is, in essence, an "exotic" in pinball. It just needs too much attention - at least the one I played on. Some will say "I did one adjustment and mine has been fine since". Trust me, I speak from experience, they are NOT all that way.

Quoted from Whysnow:

Honestly have never seen anyone drag on and on and on so ambiguously to try and claim he has uncovered some fatal flaw in the game...

Quoted from Whysnow:

you claimed the physical design seriously hampered playability...

Hilton, it was pretty clear you weren't going to be satisfied with my 'fatal flaw' analysis nothing short of something that was going to blow the game up. aren't you glad that, in the end, there weren't any under the hood issues to worry about.

#21898 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

The reality is companies need enough capital to expect to run in the red for several cycles of the business because everything will be operating in the red until you get established... You need massive capital up front, and savvy spending to ensure you don't run out of runway.

then why weren't people questioning/investigating Andrew as to whether he had sufficient funding to finance such an operation instead of assuming he had the situation covered? he wasn't going to be able to convert his thousands of up votes into pounds sometime in the future.

#21904 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Are you the same IRL or just on Pinside?

that was a legit question.
why, for years, did people anoint Andrew as the second coming instead of verifying whether he had the millions of dollars required to see things through. wouldn't it be interesting to know the total amount of investment that went into HPs operation. between all the numerous active and silent investors, the country of wales, prepaid deposits, possible unrecovered monies forwarded by cointaker, any out of pocket contributions by Andrew and HP employees, et al, I'm sure it was substantial. imagine what a team with prior pinball experience under proper management could have done with that money.

Quoted from Astropin:

You're a very cantankerous person.

you may very well been one yourself, but were fortunate enough to take delivery of a game.

how people react to my posts is out of my control.
I cant help it if some of the community have problems with my 'delivery'.

quisenberry (resized).jpg

#21920 2 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Are you the same IRL..?


billofrights (resized).jpg

#21957 2 years ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

the gentlemen who currently own/run the company are probably all 6 figure players. Melissa may not tell you if she is/was one, but it has already been mentioned on pinside.

Quoted from MK6PIN:

Ask CT? You're comments are much more naive than originally thought. I'd call Melissa or Chris anytime I like, but that's none of my business. I know them quite well. The "six figure players"? who the f**k are they? I'm sure we'd all like to know... What is your actual agenda in regard to your information provided to us? I'm quite tired of you attempting to "school" me (all of us, actually).

I'm sure everybody has a pretty good idea who the 6 figure players are now.
I have no agenda and am not trying to school anybody.
in fact, schools out for summer.

ac02 (2) (resized).jpg

#22030 2 years ago

queen is undoubtedly among the greatest bands of all time.
anyone who has studied their music,
might conclude that Freddy Mercury was a musical genius.
Brian May [lead guitar], John Deacon [bass], and Roger Taylor [drums].

'days of our lives' provides an outstanding documentary on the group.

and here is an excellent acapella version of 'bohemian rhapsody'

1 month later
#22338 1 year ago

maybe the 'museum of pinball' would buy it to add to their collection.
after all, they recently purchased a zidware 'magic girl'.
they have enough volunteer techs to help try and maintain it.
you could even 'visit' it 3-4 times a year.

#22359 1 year ago

sell, and let the money work for you in a more positive manner.

oc01 (resized).png
1 month later
#22756 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Yup, and then toss them in the trash where they belong!

you must choose... but choose wisely.

mb04 (resized).jpg

2 weeks later
#22940 1 year ago
Quoted from calprog:

How did Andrew ever get the license anyway?

sounds like roger sharpe took care of that for him.


Before granting a licence, the holder will want to know that the company is real and legitimate, and having someone such as himself involved can be vital in securing a deal, Sharpe says. As an example, he says that he helped Heighway Pinball get the Alien licence, despite the company having no product yet on the market. “I knew the people responsible for the Alien licence, and if wasn’t for my involvement, I don’t believe that Andrew would have been able to secure the licence and definitely at the rates I was able to negotiate,” he says.

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