ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over

I'm going to go with Dennis Nordman over "I think that flipper is in the wrong place" personally.

Also, I reeeeaaally hope then consider making the screen hole more interesting. That's honestly my biggest complaint about Full Throttle. The rectangular hole showing the screen looks really afterthought-y. Real turn off for me personally.

Find a way to shape the opening for the screen in a more interesting fashion. A decal under the plexi maybe. But make it feel like an organic part of the game, with a UI that matches. Would elevate the game so much more.

Or what if the screen hole was just cut into a rounded 4:3 rectangle, like an old CRT tube (what the Alien movie monitors were) and the monitor was mounted down a little below the playfield, at a slight angle towards the player, with the inside frame and edges of the playfield painted black? Maybe even use a lightly smoked piece of plexi for the window, so it was basically black when it was off.

Would be pretty cool to see the score and images almost floating in space below the playfield, pointed right up at your eyes.

That wasn't me, but I did think about the motion tracker idea. I rejected it (like actually making the window half round) because you're right, too restrictive.

I'd just love to see you find a creative way to hide the "rectangle hole with screen in it" look. But in a way that doesn't overly restrict you, 100% hear that. Like a slightly rounded border, like an old school CRT, with a bezel graphic. Would only take up a small percentage of the very edge of the screen, could still do anything with it, but would fit the theme.

But I haven't seen your playfield art, and can't wait to, so I'll try and hold back my enthusiasm for suggesting stuff!

AC/DC looks like hammered shit. It might be a great game, but it's an ugly motherf-er, no question. It doesn't really matter, but no one buys it for the looks.

If Lebowski didn't have the great hand drawn art I'd be out. That's what sold me first, it's what I've been waiting for pinball to go back to for so long now. These high priced pins need to work on every level for me.

Alien sounds super exciting, and it could really go with a lot of different approaches to the art and work, so I'll just wait and see what they reveal. But I hope they really nail it.

Honestly I can't see the LE coming close to selling out before the art is revealed. I think you're totally safe until then. So wait, and look at it. If you like it then get in then. It's still a pre-order, but at least you know what you'll be getting.

6 feet, 6 ¾ inches.

6 feet, 10 ⅔ inches to 7 feet, 2 ⅔ inches.

It was a joke. Look at it more closely and you'll see that someone was making stuff up.

You guys are some crazy mother-fers and I salute you. I'm in on TBL, and I thought I'd never pre-order a game (let alone pay that much for a damn pin), but at least I've played it and seen it and chilled with Dutch Pinball. Alien sounds absolutely bad ass, I love the theme to death, but you haven't even seen the art yet and you're pre-ordering?!

Looking forward to the reveal, and I love me some Dennis Nordman, but I gotta see the art before I even think about it.

This ++++

Seriously, posting even little tidbits often will really help you right now, people are gunshy with all the pre-order stuff going somewhat sour, so keeping people feeling connected will do a lot to ease fears.

People like to feel involved, and know things are moving. Even minor updates or photos are appreciated. IMHO you should be doing that already with Full Throttle.

Honestly, forget that. I'm not putting money down on a product just to find out more about it.

We're a huge customer pool, you can either cater to us or not. But I'm not reading the PPS forum to see what Rick is doing, I'm not giving money to someone for access, be it Heighway or Jpop, you either tell me what's up in the hopes that I'm interested or you don't.

I think that's fair, but I need to at least see the art at the very, very least. This is a game that could look incredible, or end up really disappointing. It's hard when you pick a theme that comes with great expectations.

The word was expect photorealistic art. That could mean a lot of things, so definitely curious to see how that goes down.

How about after the pin is actually revealed to start?

This is the downside to showing in progress stuff. I'm sure it's frustrating to not be able to reveal more, and the news of Nordman leaving is probably not helping, but I personally make it a rule to not do public reveals of unfinished things. People can't help but fill in the blanks with their own imaginations, and it's incredibly difficult to live up to the expectations that people create inside their heads.

Super curious to see this! Art is going to be a real make or break for me on this one, there's just so much awesome potential.

I'm expecting Photoshop personally. I believe it's already been stated it won't be hand drawn. Won't judge until the art is revealed, just have my expectations dialed down is all.

I noticed it myself, but I'm so used to them now I didn't really think it was that remarkable.

TBL definitely had orange "rubber" but I can't remember now if they were Superbands or not. I assume with that color orang that they were.

I watched Josh Sharpe play it at Expo for what felt like 20 minutes. He had no problem rocking it.

Yeah those were nice, but I wasn't tempted because I already have my favorite Mondo Alien print framed behind me:

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This is why I'm sad there's no possibility of hand drawn art, but let's see how the final results look, could still be awesome.

It's not that simple unfortunately. Greg Freres works for Stern now for instance. He's the artist behind some of the most beloved games out there. Think about how many people love the art on Fathom or Elvira ATPM and Scared Stiff.

But when you get in bed with a license your hands can often be tied. I believe there are creative solutions that Stern doesn't want to take the time and effort to pursue, and smart licenses can lead to more creative packages (see Metallica) but that's just the reality of so much of the photoshopped PR collages.

I would be really surprised if Greg was freelancing for other people. Remember what happened to David Thiel, he did music for JJP and Stern cut him off.

Just for fun, here are the modern Alien arcade games, you can see how they handled the art for these. May or may not be relevant! ( they even have toppers )

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Only side I've heard! I'd love for it to not be true, because it made Stern sound very petty.

Awesome, love seeing the flipping whitewood. Obviously still early, but that's okay, it's cool to see the early stages. Looking forward to seeing the second one too, and very much to the art when you have approval to show it.

Haha, no shit, we're so easy to please now. Just say you'll do something, and then actually do it, and we're blown away!

Notice there's no "we can't show you the whitewood because we're too busy filing 37 patents for our game" or any other nonsense. Yes, I want to see the art. But the important thing is first, a ball being flipped around!

Reasonable prices, new ideas, good communication, I think all the things that should be in place for people to support are there.

Full Throttle doesn't interest me, as a theme first and foremost. And I'm not pre-ordering anything. But Alien I could be excited about, it's a killer theme. But I need to see the art, hear the sounds, etc. I love the theme so much that I couldn't do it if it wasn't right, if that makes sense!

Easy answer? So that the playfields are exchangeable between games. I'm not a big widebody fan myself, but I'd have to see how it plays, Full Throttle was flowing and fast for sure.

I got sucked into watching Alien 3 last night. I know it's got problems, but I have to admit, I enjoy it still.

Yeah, I've watched all the behind the scenes footage and interviews. It's actually amazing it came out as well as it did.

Production starting on their first game is a huge milestone! I know they did the Bacardi thing, and it was a great test of their ability to Get Shit Done™, but doing a real pin is a big step up from that.

Love the business model here. 50% before production, 50% with a pic of your game. Sounds super reasonable to me!

Can we please leave other game's dramas at the door? Take it to PM if you must. Heighway has been super great on the communication, they're about to start rolling the line on their first game, and we'll quickly see how legit they are or aren't. No reason to stir up dirt here, they don't deserve it.

Making licensed games when you have to do them properly instead of calling the number on the back of the DVD case is hard!

I've never done a pinball game, but I definitely know what it's like to work with clients that have multiple approval departments, and people have to figure out who can approve what, and requests and assets get kicked around, and you have to just cool your heels while the wheels and gears grind.

I have to think anything I've experienced has got to be way worse with a giant movie studio.

The difference with Heighway is they're offering the pre-order if you want model, not you must pre-order model.

If you want an LE you can buy one after they come out, but you do run the risk of them selling out. But that's your call, not something artificial.

Really I think everyone will probably breathe a little easier not just when Alien news is able to be released, but when Full Throttle games start arriving in people's houses. That's the real acid test, to use an apt for the topic metaphor.

I think one thing you have to remember is that Full Throttle is an unlicensed pin. Destiny was firmly in Heighway's hands for making it. No one else to answer to. And you have to respect that there were features planned for it that just didn't hold up in testing, so they were scrapped to make sure the game was as good as it could be.

Alien is the first licensed title. I don't doubt that were things fully in Heighway's control that we'd see more results already. But you're a bit of a slave to the licensor's schedule when it comes to approvals, and it's not the kind of thing you can show in-progress work on when you're waiting for that response. So I would think we're just seeing a little of the reality of that side of the game appearing. Big corporations aren't exactly known for moving fast.

No reason to doubt what they're doing, the first game is about to hit the line, let them keep learning their lessons, listening to the fan base, and do what's needed to make a great game. Alien is a killer license.

My two cents: Beacons and lit ramps aren't exactly "gameplay" features, but they interact with the ball (I assume, no idea how the ramp lights work). I'd prefer personally that anything that is actually tied to the gameplay be available to anyone. Have a Full Throttle and want to convert it to an Alien? Pay extra and get all the features.

Let the LE be limited to more cool stuff that's not really gameplay related. Special powdercoat sure, but maybe an exclusive art package that only the LE can have. That keeps it limited, but not at the expense of people getting the full game.

That just seems to fit with the "modular" idea. You don't want to feel like you can't get a full game upgrade. But it still makes the LE special for people who love the theme and want a really dedicated cabinet for it that shows that they got the special version.

I guess I just would prefer things to be player first, collector second, in terms of priority, while still be sensitive to the concerns of both sides, since they both matter.

A little bird chirped a tune outside my window that sounded suspiciously like "Alien updates are coming tonight" just now.

Pics or it hasn't happened Robert!!

It's funny how far a little communication and honesty goes, right? Things are delayed, but here's why. Here's what we're working on, here's what we hope to show soon, here are some rough timelines that we're aiming for.

And if you say you're gonna show something in a month, and you can't, because the real world is complicated? Hey, just update like you promised, and say whatever you're allowed to about what's going on again, and give your best estimate for when you can try again.

I truly believe that pinball people are very patient, if you just make them feel informed and part of the process. Almost everyone would rather wait a little longer for a better game, they just want to know why they're waiting, and maybe a little other information to tide them over.

The trouble and drama appear when there's an information vacuum.

Ice, this isn't a Jpop thread, relax man. I know John's got you worked up, but Andrew is the polar opposite. Let's list some differences between the two and their current stable of titles:

Is communicating regularly directly with people: Andrew [x] | John [ ]

Is being up front and honest about progress and issues: Andrew [x] | John [ ]

Has shown a flipping game: Andrew [x] | John [ ]

Has a factory: Andrew [x] | John [ ]

Is actually building a game, right now: Andrew [x] | John [ ]

Took 4 years to still not finish anything: Andrew [ ] | John [x]

Is charging $17,000 for games: Andrew [ ] | John [x]

I could go on, but I think we all get the point. Let's not try and create drama based on other people's issues. This thread is the communication and honesty we deserve, from everyone.

Let's just leave everyone else's drama at the door and keep it positive, it's almost Easter.

Easter Bunny hugs!

Heh. I think Heighway is way beyond "Kevin status" already, just having a factory building their first game alone does that. But I hear you, show and prove, sounds fair enough to me.

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Here's my take on the state of things with these "startup" pinball companies. Whatever size they might be.

I think it's totally fair for us, as consumers, to have expectations when it comes to communication. Show and prove. People have been burned before, it's a reasonable and smart approach. We should have done it from the beginning, but it's not too late to learn. And frankly it's not a lot to ask for.

The other side of that coin is I feel like we should support the businesses who do the right things.

Spooky and Heighway both have done original themes, something we've asked for. Now they're both moving into the world of licensed themes, because it turns out that what we actually want.

There are going to be delays. It's just the nature of the beast. Licensing can get pretty complicated. You have to work with the movie studio, and then work with the rights holders for the music, work with the reps for actors. Wait for this guy to return your call with permission to contact that other guy who will promise to get back to you. In two weeks. Rinse and repeat.

As long as you don't go all dark and silent and keep us in the loop I can be patient.

I've already told Chuck and Ben that if there's a way I can help them that I'm there, I want to see Spooky thrive.

I'm throwing my hat into the Heighway ring now too. Let's get behind these companies that are making drama free games.

I think waiting to see artwork is totally sane. I hope you're not disappointed.

Agreed, that's the sane model. It's fun to be in on the process as a community, but ultimately it just creates more frustration and drama than it's worth. Sometimes you don't need to see the sausage being made.

I really meant it!

And I meant what I've said before too, about waiting to see the art. I think it's totally fair to say "game sounds great, but I need to see what it looks like before I even think about ordering". It's on me to try and sell you.

Probably needs some guy to crap out a translite first.

I'm really looking forward to working with Harry myself.

Andrew covered this earlier, they're going to revolve the way they should.

Other than that I don't know how they're being designed specifically. I imagine all anyone needs is them going nuts at the right times though.

I don't really want to speak for Andrew, but he has been really busy lately, even I haven't talked to him a ton the past couple days, and we're in pretty close contact. So just saying that you might not get any immediate response in this thread from him like you're used to.

Andrew is insanely busy right now, just juggling a lot. I don't want to speak for him, just noting that he hasn't had much time lately, because he's working on so much. I imagine as soon as he can free himself he'll post an update on Full Throttle.

I'm not comfortable giving any kind of update, that's really Andrew's role, but there's lots of work being done.

In house system. No idea if it has a fancy pants name.

I'm doing the standard backglass and sideart, though the initial rough concepts for it were already done before I came on board, so my role there is to flesh them out and finish them.

I'm doing the playfield. Some things were in place there too, but probably a lot less will be kept, concept-wise, that's what I'm working through now.

I'm doing the LE backglass and sideart.

I'm working on designs for the LCD screen, though we have an animator, as well as people at Heighway who've done concepts and animations.

Working with the license is a process, and that's the main reason we haven't been ready to show anything yet. I'm used to working with big brands, but on much tighter/faster time schedules, it's definitely a learning experience to go through this all. When you do an ad campaign for Microsoft or Lexus you're working with their agency, and while there's always a style guide and legal requirements you never had to submit work through such a formal and intense process that comes with the world of film.

I love them both. But I might have to give the edge to Aliens if I had to pick, only in that it's the one I can just rewatch again more easily.

We're at a stage where it's not really up to us. But I happen to agree that it's probably best to let Full Throttle have a little spotlight time. The early reports on it from Pintastic were really positive, give people a little time to get to know what Heighway is doing. First customer games should be showing up soon I think. I haven't even played it myself, and I'd like to.

I'll say this: The extra time for Alien is really a good thing, it's allowed for some space to iterate and improve the playfield. I think people are going to really dig the next reveal of the design, whenever that is, because there are more shots now, better flow, more toys, more interaction, etc. The design has been refined. I just got the latest CAD file yesterday, and I'm loving the tweaks from even the last version I had.

Both Andrew and I are huge fans of the movies. More than anything we want to get it right.

The art process is taking longer than anyone would like. It's slower than I would like. But I think we all know by now that pinball can be like that, especially with a license. There's no drama, it's just the process playing out.

I'm probably getting into speaking for Andrew territory here, so I'll stop, but hang in there guys, we're going to do our best to make a great game.

I mean, sure, I'd love to say this game I'm working on already has the LEs sold out, but to be honest in a funny way I'm glad they're not. No one has really seen the game yet. I'd like to think that we earn the orders from the work, not just picking the theme, if that makes sense.

Give Full Throttle a little time to get going, and then I'm sure we'll have some kind of updates for Alien. I know Andrew teased some things at Pintastic and showed a video of the beacons, did that video make it to Pinside yet? Can't remember.

People don't want original themes. That's really obvious. They pretend they do, but every single "dream theme" thread is full of movies and bands and TV shows etc. And there's nothing really wrong with that. Alien is an awesome theme, I'm excited for the ideas we have for the modes, it's going to feel great. Really good theme for a pin.

It's just extremely difficult to push an original game now. Without a known theme helping sell it everyone is extra skeptical and critical of everything. I feel like Full Throttle is going to be a slow burn, but I do think it will build some momentum once people are unboxing and reviewing it, because everyone who's played it seems to really like it. At the end of the day we're not talking posters or action figures, these are games, and they're about being fun to play.

I'll say this: as someone who just likes to work on these things as a hobby, definitely not looking to quit my day job, this might be the last licensed title I work on like this. We'll see, I may never do another pin, or a theme might convince me, but the restrictions of a license are a little bit too much like my regular client work, as opposed to the creative freedom that makes this hobby stuff an escape for me.

So I personally feel it's a shame that non-licensed pins are such a tough sell. Is what it is.

I'm not a big fan of the pre-order model myself. But in a funny way I'm in on this deeper than anyone else. I don't see any compensation for my work until the games ship. I'll get my own personal LE, and my payments are all royalty based. No game, nothing for me but a ton of my time spent!

So honestly I'm "gambling" more than anyone who's put money down on this. And I'm perfectly comfortable with it. IMHO the "worst case scenario" is simply that the games take longer to ship than people would like. Alien was probably announced a little early. So it goes, that's pinball. Heighway is a legit company, with a real factory, a real plan, and real ambitions. And they've got real funding.

You can add the beacons and fiber optic lights to a Standard. So if you decide to wait and the LEs are sold out at least you won't miss out on anything cool in that sense. But the LE should be a bad ass package. I won't lie, my goal is to make it cooler than the Standard.

I haven't even started on the LE art yet, it's just not as high a priority vs getting the rest of the game together. Looking forward to it since it's the version of the game I'll personally own though!

So I'm really not trying to push anyone into ordering right now, honest. Do what you're comfortable with. But I'm in with everyone who has and will, and feeling frosty.

Well beyond the fact that there's a hell of a lot of other stuff to do with the playfield and the LCD screen, we haven't shown the standard art yet because it isn't approved (though it has been submitted). I'd feel way more comfortable doing the LE art once the Standard has the green light. Then if there are any issues with the licensor they can be addressed before starting another package.

We're getting into territory where I don't want to speak for Andrew, so I won't address the specific questions. But yeah, pinball takes a while. And with a license you have all sort of delays you can't anticipate, it's definitely slower than I expected. I have a lot of experience working with big brands, but nothing like this. Maybe it's a film industry thing, I dunno.

As I said earlier in this thread, the delays have been a good thing for the gameplay, I'm way more excited to shoot the playfield design now compared to what was first shown. I'm sure there will be an update at some point.

Edit: I'm a huge Dennis Nordman fan, so whatever happened with him, my point above isn't a diss at him, to be clear. The design has just evolved in good ways since he left is all.

Yeah, I'm on the list for Rob Zombie, and if I stay committed I have no issue with the $1000 deposit. But I'm not paying to develop a game, or paying for the thing in full years before it eventually ships. Big difference between crowd funding a game, and putting down a "yes I'm serious" deposit.

I thought Andrew showed the pop caps at Pintastic? I should really find the video of that and see what he showed.

Heh, I was born in '77, so splitting the difference here I guess. I honestly couldn't care less what my LE # is, whatever Andrew sends over is fine by me.

Well I'm not a fan of pre-ordering, I wouldn't want to try and talk anyone else into doing it.

But that said, I'm in on Spoooky's Rob Zombie, and it's basically the same model as Heighway is using. So I guess I'm down to endorse the "put down deposit to hold spot and show you're serious, pay the rest when game is ready" model. It feels like a reasonable compromise.

The important thing to me is you a) don't pay in full without the game being done, and b) you're not funding development of the game. Both lead to too much heartache.

Heighway isn't asking for the rest of the money until your game is ready to be built, and they have independent financing, they aren't using pre-order money to fund making a game, and then not having any cash when it's time to build or something. So they pass that test.

Those sentry guns are clever, but they just look like a massive headache as far as getting broken from ball strikes.

Well, like I said earlier, just speaking for myself, I'm happy to earn people's purchases, not just ride the theme. I have no doubt that Andrew will be showing more when he's able to, he's not the kind of guy that likes to hold back updates, if you hadn't noticed.

I haven't a clue how many of the LEs have "sold" already, I haven't asked. I won't say I don't care, because sure I do, and I really appreciate the notes people have sent me as they've gone in, you guys are great. But I'm just not focused on it. If we do our job right selling out the LE games isn't going to be an issue.

Will it happen overnight, and if you don't get in now you risk missing one? Beats me man. But at least I know that if you miss out on the LE you're still going to have the same gameplay. We're not taking out the spinner and the drop targets for the Standard, or gimping the RGB LEDs, or removing one of the toys. And if you want the extra beacon lights or fiber optics you can add them.

Find your comfort level, follow along, and do what feels right.

My biggest problem is how to fit Alien and Rob Zombie if I end up with both.

Helllllll no!

Flash Gordon is going nowhere, one of my favorite pins. So great. Really under appreciated IMHO. I can't think of a single ball pin I like more. I really love the early 80s Ballys, have Flash Gordon and Mystic, and a Fathom on loan. I have space for 10 pins but I only list 9 since I don't own the Fathom. If I can find a Medusa I'll sell my Abra Ca Dabra to fit it next to Mystic in my office.

I wouldn't worry about that flipper.

I'm sure a new layout will be shown as soon as possible, but that's Andrew's department.

I'm always hesitant to speak on things, it's really not my department. But the old whitewood and CAD drawing are definitely out of date, and the changes since then are IMHO real improvements. Same spirit, but refined. And the issues people (rightly) brought up with the upper right flipper have been addressed. Still 4 flippers to be clear, and they all have real shots that matter.

That's all I feel like I can say until we show an update!

Also, as long as I'm revealing "secret" things here that might make Andrew raise his eyebrows at me ( ) I should note that he hasn't been around much recently because the guy just got married! It's all over his Facebook, so hopefully it's not a secret he's gonna be mad at be for blowing up.

He's getting back to work now, but I'm sure he was trying to not think too much about pinball for at least a couple days!

Are you kidding? It should be a totally popular opinion!

I hate this model. If it were up to me Alien wouldn't even have been announced yet. Blow people away with a surprise and watch the mouths drop, that's how to do it. Building pins is slow, and even when you think you've got dates covered there's a million things that can happen to slow it down that you couldn't possibly have controlled. Even the most drama-free projects don't tick along like clockwork.

I don't like to announce my personal projects ahead of time either really. I've tried it, and it can work, but better to feel like you can throw away all your work and start over without worrying about what people think. The end result is more important than sharing progress.

I don't think Andrew likes it either. But I can understand why he did it. Frankly the climate when Alien was announced in pinball was pretty different. It felt like if you didn't throw your card into the ring people were going to commit all their pinball funds to other pre-orders. It was announce or risk being left out of the game. For a new company trying to build support that's death. And no disrespect to Full Throttle, but as Spooky has learned original themes are a lot harder to sell fast. You need to build them up, you can't count on support from the name alone.

Is what it is, and the game is progressing either way, we're just in this awkward period where there isn't much to talk about publicly. That will change, just going to require some patience.

I'll admit that I do kind of enjoy teasing you guys a little bit. But honestly if I was free to just share anything and everything I would. Once you've let the cat out of the bag I don't like the games and secrets. But it's not my call, and in some ways it's not even Andrew's. We've all seen the drama that can come with showing licensed stuff before approval has happened (see Philgate). Much more important to do things right and have a good end product.

Trust me, the soul of the game is still there, it's just been improved. Every flipper has cool shots. Every flipper has interesting setups. And frankly more shots and more setups than before, with more flow. I'm much happier with it now, as someone who's going to own an LE.

I know, but thanks for saying it. I don't think "pinball is hard" is the right saying. Pinball takes time. Pinball is complicated. It's hard when you don't know what you're doing. It's hard to predict. But Heighway has a great team and a great factory. In the end that's what will matter when it comes to building everyone a rad game. And Alien will be game 2, all the lessons learned from doing Full Throttle means they're a little bit wiser now!

Exactly. That's a dead on description.

The stuff with Jpop and Kevin really sucks. But their implosions really were rather small in the grand scheme of things. I'm hoping some sanity has returned with the bubble being pricked, not torn wide open. Maybe the hobby will be healthier for it. A real medieval bleeding. I know some of that blood was yours man, and that sucks. BTW I haven't forgotten about my PM to you.

Tell you what man, I love pinball in so many ways. The 1980 Bally games make my heart beat faster. Just seeing them makes me happy. They're just right, the art, the sounds, the rules, the gameplay: just a real raw simplicity that's still extra challenging to actually master, and keeps you coming back. I keep my games on 5 ball, and the games still fly by in a 4 player match. Especially on my Flash Gordon!

But I also love what modern tech is giving us. Andrew, I'm gonna just spit a little hype out here, I'm not giving anything away, just talking about what we *could* do with the tech your company is letting me play with!

(The following is just a hypothetical for the moment, making it up on the spot, the team can steal it if they want, but not saying it will be in the game.)

We have a playfield where every single light both on top of and below it is a fully addressable RGB light (plus if you upgrade or have the LE there's fiberoptic ramp lighting, same color changing abilities). There's a high rez LCD screen right in the middle of that.

We kill all the GI and the inserts and the LCD. Game goes dark.

A rumbling explosion builds on the sound system, and the LCD lights up with a fireball. The screen goes red. A "shockwave" of red travels outwards from the screen as the inserts and GI all bloom into red in sequence as it moves away from the center. The beacons start spinning. The flashers start going off, red of course.

Man, I dunno what Andrew is gonna do here, but the man says he's going to offer an optional game-activated smoke machine. If you have one it would let out a big puff of smoke, right as the screen animates.

The game is bathed in red, the inserts fade out and flashers go off, so just the red GI remains, keep the beacons going though, and then we ... who knows? Launch a 4 ball multiball. Light up all the major shot arrows red. Every time you hit one it goes orange (and all the flashers orange). Then yellow. Then you extinguish it. Put out all the shots to light the super jackpots.

I dunno, I'm making this up right now, and the rules are all covered by Bálint and team. Just an example for the kinds of thinking I hope we bring to the game. But I'm working with the game designers and programmers to figure out stuff like that. It's this enormously cool playground. I'm honestly just as excited about art directing the LCD screens and the lighting as I am about the cabinet/playfield art.

So my point is, I love Flash Gordon and Mystic, but I love the new level of immersive-ness we're going to be able to bring to a game that's begging to have the atmospheres of the films. It's awesome that at a fundamental level they're both just games to bat the ball around. And yet they're real generations apart.

Flash Gordon is balls out hard, a drain monster with wild balls even when you hit the shot you were trying to (#^¢%ing inline drops). You're just lighting up the spinners and multipliers, that's the whole game for the most part. It's super basic. But it's so damn fun.
Alien will have multiple modes and multiballs and outside of mode things, full screen animations, all this insane lighting (though they'll both have interactive backbox lighting!). Just a totally different experience.
I've got secrets about the lighting that I won't even share, you'll have to see it in person and hopefully the ideas work!

Sorry man. Sort of just piled on there a little bit.

Damnit, quoted instead of editing. I write too much, I know, sorry.

I work from home. My wife is at work, my kids are at camp. Or, my kids and wife are asleep and I'm sitting here working, I'm a night owl. Either way I'm used to talking to people all day through the keyboard. Email, the Ars IRC channels, various IM and texting, etc.

Pinside is my non-work water cooler, where I don't have to think about doing a native Porsche piece, or working on a pitch to Microsoft. Don't get me wrong, the big clients are great, it's fun to work on a campaign for a brand that's looking for original thinking and willing to do what it takes to execute it. But look how fast I'm slipping into talking like I'm back at work.

So yeah, I need a place to chat with people that's a mental break from that. Pinball is a great outlet, because the community is awesome – warts and all, I love it – but also because playing pinball is how I relax.

I think the BOM and currency conversions and everything else have just led to some adjustments to make sure making the games is a sustainable thing. I dunno, I'm not in the middle of that stuff, Andrew and I have only briefly even talked about it. Considering what they're cramming into the games as far as features and the competitive landscape I feel like the price is reasonable. But obviously everyone has to make their own call on that stuff.

Limited Variant #426

I was actually talking about the Standards. For any company's LE I think the value proposition is rarely there from a straight numbers perspective, it's more of an emotional thing. Only LE I own is Metallica, and I paid extra for it just because I really wanted the intangibles on that one. Not because it was really "worth it" otherwise.

But the Heighway Standard is priced right with the Stern Premium. But at least with Stern's current Spike offerings you getting a ton more. The obvious differences being a high rez full color LCD screen and complete RGB lighting. Plus widebody I guess. And as Full Throttle has shown that doesn't mean slow and no flow.

My bad, I missed that we were specifically talking about the LE I guess. Honestly I have no insights nor am I qualified to speak on the pricing, so I'll just stay out of it.

Now that Andrew has addressed that, maybe I can talk about the value and features of Heighway pins a little more. Rob and I were having a parallel conversation in the Hobbit thread, and it got pretty off topic. Rob suggested bringing it here, so this quote is from that thread:

The answer to that is no, you don't. Stern has never released a game with full RGB lighting. The closest they've come is Star Trek Prem/LE, which had true RGB lighting for the inserts. The Pro had a weaker style of RGB (could only do 6 colors) on a few inserts. None of the flashers and GI were RGB on either game.

Walking Dead has two different colors of GI bulbs, it's white and red right? So they can run both, or one or the other. Red GI, white GI, or white with red accents. Which inserts are RGB? Honestly not sure, only really played the Pro. But I know it's not every single one like Star Trek. On Alien every single lamp in the game will be able to be one of 16 million colors. Obviously in practice it will be less than that, but you get the point. Smooth transitions, any shade we want, fade on and off, etc.

So that's what allows effects like the one I posted earlier, with my explosion idea. Stern pins, as of right now at least, cannot do that.

Star Trek is a great example though, if you've played it with the most recent code, and you get a medal, it does that cool insert light show in the color of the medal. We can take things like that, and bring them up to the next level since we can integrate the GI, flashers, and LCD screen into the effect.

So when I say that Heighway is offering more value at the Stern Premium price point that's what I mean, they have more advanced tech. I'm not sure what Hobbit has. I think it's white GI and full RGB inserts, more like Star Trek Prem? Anyone know for sure? Or are they full RGB too?

Point taken, but I think that it's part of the gameplay too. Meaning that too many showy effects that detract from the gameplay can suck, but doing things where you're purposefully messing with the player are fair game. Like Fade to Black on Metallica. I love that the lights keep getting darker. It's part of the mode. Lyman really milked a lot of value out of just red, white, and blue GI lights. If he had the Heighway system of fully RGB GI I imagine he would have taken things even further.

Anyways, in my pretend explosion example above, that's clearly something you'd do while holding the ball. Make a saucer shot, then kill the lights, run the animation, and launch the multiball. Just like Star Trek does for Klingon Multiball. You can't expect the player to play through stuff like that, it's to build up momentum for the upcoming multiball or mode.

I don't want to post more examples, because we already have plans for the actual game that it's too early to talk about. But I hear your point for sure.

Hey, it's all good, you have legit questions. Andrew answered the first part, so there's a dialogue straight with the owner of the company here. Within hours too. That's great.

Apparently WOZ prices just went up $500 out of the blue? https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/woz-500-price-increase

Stern raises prices between games. Alien is just caught with probably being announced a little early, but we already talked about why that happened, so no point in beating it to death.

I appreciate everyone who pre-orders, it's a real show of support, and I love you for it. But personally I think anyone who wants to wait it out and see what happens is no lesser in any way. Definitely isn't drama in my book to be cautious, or have questions.

Our job is to make a kick ass game, and whenever you buy it I'll appreciate it. And if you don't that's all good too, can't sell one to everyone. Though if that happened I wouldn't be mad.

I think having systems built from scratch to handle LEDs, with smooth fading, no flickering, ghosting etc helps. A lot of the hate for LEDs comes from retrofitting them in games where they just don't work right.

I know that I love Herg's LED OCD board. My Tron looks so much nicer now with it.

Eh, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that then. For me it's a big deal. The more interactive lighting is the main reason I bought my Metallica LE (used with the "real" code) over a Pro. It's definitely the reason I bought my Star Trek Premium over a Pro.

I didn't get a Tron Pro until Eli's ramp kit existed. I needed it to make the game feel complete.

Obviously theme and gameplay come first. But if you're contemplating Alien vs Jurassic World or whatever, and Stern's game is same old LEDs and a DMD and Alien has bad ass lighting effects and an LCD screen I think we have the edge.

Game of Thrones is going to change that though is my guess, so we'll just have to see where the cards fall.

I'm saying that I paid more for the better lighting models. Star Trek Premium was worth extra to me for full RGB lighting. That's the main reason I got it over the Pro. The gameplay was really almost identical otherwise. So to me more advanced lighting is worth extra money, that's my point. To me it's more value.

I have literally zero to do with Full Throttle. I haven't even played it! Saw it at Expo '14 and that's it. I don't know how they use the RGB lights. All I know is that Alien is going to be filled with atmosphere, and the lighting is definitely going to be a part of that, and I think it will be a compelling package. And I think relative to the Stern Premium, which is the direct price comparison, it will represent a good value. Only you can judge what matters of course. And if the game isn't fun no lights will help that, we have to get everything else right too.

Edit: I started a new thread here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-does-twd-premle-use-its-rgb-inserts because I'm curious to learn more about TWD lighting, and don't want to drag this off topic. Sorry for the Stern derail, was just trying to explain a value point. Removed my paragraph about Star Trek.

lol no, it wasn't me. I haven't requested a number or anything. I honestly don't care, I couldn't even tell you what # my METLE is, only LE game I own. Andrew can send me whatever.

ALIEN_KEYART16.jpg

Haha yeah, and that's one of the better ones. I have a whole stack of old poster ideas in the assets Fox gave me.

Check out this bad boy:

ALIEN_KEYART15.jpg

I guess they were trying to be clever and combine the acid burn look with the whole "hey something just came out of a hole in this guy's chest" deal.

But considering that no one had seen the film yet as these were teasers it probably just confused the heck out of anyone who saw it.

Just goes to show, even when the end image is totally simple and iconic (the egg) there's often a ton of stuff left on the cutting room floor before you get there.

You mean this one? (This is the highest quality I have, no high rez versions of these old images.)

ALIEN_KEYART09.jpg

Ah, I must have been counting from a different reference point, I think you're talking about this one:

ALIEN_KEYART05.jpg

Okay, this is me speaking, not an official Heighway response, just to be clear.

But video modes as a general rule suck ass. Just saying. If a Heighway game never has a video mode I won't cry a single tear.

I think the only video mode game I have is the Shadow now, and I actually don't mind that one. But it's an exception.

And yes, I know Flippy Ghost on AMH is my fault.

Damnit, don't quote me before I fix my typos!

Also, I might be mixing tequila and red wine, so excuse my typing.

The dirty secret is if I'm posting after say 9pm Pacific on any given night there's a good chance there's at least onr substance or another flowing through my bloodstream. California living man.

Had a good talk with Andrew tonight. He was much more relaxed, I'm going to say at least so far being married is agreeing with him!

We both agreed that we need to show some more updates to people. Give us some time to get things together and we'll find something to share.

I am very capable of screwing around on Pinside and working at the same time!

Yeah, these are all legit ideas from inside Fox. The actual stories behind them I don't know. I'm not leaking anything secret, they're out there already, I just happen to have them all in a folder of JPEGs in the asset library Fox provided.

I think they're very cool, but in a "deleted scene that didn't need to make the movie" kind of way. Gives you some cool insight, but not as good as what was "real".

As I've said before, I'm a huge fan of the Alien "egg". It's just so iconic still, after all these years. They really touched a nerve with it.