I don't know, the playfield looks a little bare, the art needs some work and the sling shots seem weak.

This is Pinside, someone had to say it.

Interesting and different layout. Really looking forward to seeing how it all comes together and playing it when it comes out.

One concern I have when I see any manufacturer that is so far off in their release estimates is the unexpected hit on their resources.

If they really expected to release FTH at the beginning of 2013, then it must be tough to absorb the extra 2 years of salaries and other expenses needed to keep the business running.

When they announced Alien would be released in April 2015 at the October 2014 Expo (only 7 months) I just shook my head in bewilderment as they hadn't even shipped FTH yet. It wasn't their first game so shouldn't they know better?

Still, they are getting FTH out and that is a huge accomplishment as the other boutique failures have shown us.

As long as a company is not out to scam us, I trust that they are working hard to produce the game they promised. Communication may help us feel better about our pre-order, but in the end, the proof is in the final product.

Are you saying you don't want to draw the zombie hoard away from its current distraction?

All great points Aurich and sounds so similar to the old Stern vs Woz comparisons. However, the "Bill of Materials" argument fails for a large contingent of buyers who place theme, flow and fun above content. I think it's easier to make simple games like Iron Man have that fast, in your face action that many people enjoy, which fits well with Stern's lower BOM, popular themed machines.

Let me add that I think it takes great passion on the part of the designers to make a pinball machine that excels in every category (rules, art, sound and gameplay). As such, I'm really looking forward to you guys knocking Alien out of the park!

I think once you get away from the typical fan layout you're going to have a "different" kind of game by today's standards. I prefer a game that's loaded with stuff so I'm excited by your description of Alien.

The Ritchie type flow fest is very popular today and I like the smooth feel of hitting shots on the fly and the sheer joy of comboing ramps that type of game provides. I also enjoy the more cerebral Lawlor stop and go style in games like TZ that seems to have fallen out of favor.

To me WOZ is more on the Lawlor side but I wouldn't classify it as a "modern EM" (and I own and enjoy EM's). An EM evokes images of slow floaty gameplay, underpowered flippers, overly random and simple rules. WOZ is not like this.

I guess my point is Alien's layout is different enough that people will need to see it in action.

From what I've seen so far:

Theme - Nailed
Art - Very hopeful with you working on it (I have your Shadow kit)
Playfield layout - very interesting
Sound - ?
Rules - ?

The more I look at the playfield, the more I like it. Aurich, is the right shot below the upper flipper labeled "N" an orbit that goes all the way around to the left orbit labeled "C"?

I was a little underwhelmed when I saw the first images from the presentation, but the detail in the border on the later images really adds to the overall look. Well done! All it needs is a little bevel and emboss on the logo and it will be perfect.

Makes sense to me. I would expect there to be enough separation between the LE and the Standard (other than art), otherwise people could just switch over and buy the pieces individually.

Looking forward to seeing this populated. It's a different look for playfield art. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but without the usual bold black outlines (keylines?) the playfield has a somewhat muted look to me. Will be interesting to see how the LCD ties things together.

Really like all the inserts to track progress instead of leaving it up to the LCD. Also like the detailed insert graphics.

As others have mentioned, the flame trail style and having it extend through the planet seems out of place. The top of the playfield (above the green alien) looks empty, most notably around the pop bumpers. Is this visible when the playfield is populated?

I don't have a problem with the various objects floating above the space/planet background.

All in all, a good effort.

One thing that sticks out in the playfield art/layout mock-up is the empty black about mid LCD down to the scanner. Sure seems like that area could be used for something interesting even if not too close to the screen.

I think it's possible to judge the artwork as it sits (according to personal preferences) without having any preconceived expectations.

Does anyone know what the image at the top of the playfield is and how it fits in with the blood splatter around the pop bumper holes?

I also like the inclusion of fan elements like the patches but think they don't fit with the playfield art and would be better placed elsewhere, like on the plastics or apron.

To those who say it's a done deal, Aurich has repeatedly said he has to make changes so why not give him suggestions? It's easy to get lost in the details of a project. I think it's helpful to get inputs from people who are not uber fans and who are not so close to the project.

If I remember correctly, he also said FOX approved the playfield on the first pass, so it doesn't sound like there has been a lot of back-and-forth to deal with at this point.

I have a hard time understanding the desire some have to cut corners just to get something quickly. For a great theme like Alien and at a price of $6k to $8k, why not make another pass if it greatly improves the look of the game? What's a little delay versus looking at elements on the playfield that are a bit of an eyesore IMO for the next 20 years?

I expect there are other aspects of the game that will require more time anyway if the tweaks to the artwork require going through the approval process one more time. Is it likely FOX will have a problem if all Aurich does is remove the cartoony elements and patches as voodle demonstrated?

I would expect them to make layout and art changes after their first prototype.

This is what I love about opinions. Aurich can take them all in, incorporate the ones he likes (if any) and disregard the rest. I don't see a down side to this process and it could lead to a better machine.

I take this to mean he is not going to go into an entirely new direction but can make changes.

Aurich, I listened to Nates podcast and better understand your vision. If you lighten the black area around the LCD, will the underlying rocks show up? I would not have noticed the view looking out onto the horizon if you hadn't told me.

I think having the LCD in the middle of the playfield makes the artwork focus different than on other machines. Since the LCD can show characters and clips, maybe having the playfield artwork act as a more generic backdrop is more appropriate.

If this stuff isn't locked down yet, I'm adjusting my expectations to the LCD and sound implementation not being built around movie clips like the Hobbit, as I think that would need to be known early in the design process before you could move forward with storylines, scripting, etc.. As someone else mentioned, the result may be a more generic space game set in the Alien(s) universe (similar to TWD).

If that is the case, they may lose some of the most ardent fans of the movie but the game could still be excellent. With Aurich and Andrew being such huge Alien(s) fans, I expect they'll do the best they can with what they have.

Aurich or Andrew, please correct me if my speculations are way off base here.

Edit:

Thanks for the clarification.

Aurich, one basic thing I don't understand. If you have license to a film but not the likenesses of it's actors, does that mean you can't use footage from the film that contains said actor without the actor's permission?

Aurich, since we're getting a glimpse into "how the sausage is made", can you share some of the ways you've been able to proceed with the design without knowing all the assets you will get?

What Aurich says:

"The honest answer is the actors are a separate negotiation, that's just the way the license game works. You're getting the behind the scenes story, which is that we're still in negotiations."

What some of us hear:

Negotiations = nothing finalized = possibility of no actors in the game. Commence sky falling.

I would expect the more powerful weapons to kill the aliens faster, even more so if they were the right weapon for the right mode. If so there would be incentive to collect the correct weapon before or during a specific mode.

I always liked the arcade games that had "power ups" to collect.

You're not supposed to ask these probing questions. Just watch the pretty (or not so pretty) pictures and enjoy the show.

I think the violet up top looks much better than what was there before. I also like that it looks like the blood splatters were removed from around the pop bumpers.

Still don't care for the band of black extending across the playfield above the scanner. All in all, a very dark playfield thus far but perhaps it will provide good contrast to the inserts, the LCD and the rest of the stuff on top.

Looking forward to seeing the final version populated.

Aurich, I think you said previously that the view looking at the planets was intended to be a horizon shot looking through the surrounding rocks.

If the photos convey the way the playfield actually looks, there doesn't appear to be enough definition in the surrounding rocks to see this intent. Perhaps enhancing the lighting transition from the black above the scanner to the edge of the rocks below the horizon, to make the rocks show up more, would better serve your purpose.

What fun is that?

Hmmm....I wonder if they got the proper licensing?

I know this is the Alien thread but thought the chromed out FT looks so nice, just imagine something similar on Alien.

I didn't like the look of the old bezel but think the chromed one actually adds cosmetic value.

FT_LE_(resized).jpeg

It's a purely psychological thing but I like being invested in these long running projects. It makes all the reveals more exciting to me and I don't have a problem if the games take longer than the company anticipates (I expect it).

Since I can get a refund if I don't like the way the game is progressing or ends up, I don't see much risk unless the company goes belly up.

If you want an LE like GB with Stern's model, there's such a frenzy that you have to commit to purchase solely based on the way the game looks. I can't help but remember a similar frenzy with Hulk LE and Wolverine LE. But then there's BIBLE and TRONLE. It's a roll of the dice.

At least with Alien we will have time to take more of the game in before sending final payment.

I don't necessarily need to play it but I need to at least see gameplay videos, hear what it sounds like and have an idea of the rules (unless it's a programmer I consistently like). These days, it can take years for code to make a mediocre game good, so if my initial impressions are marginal, I can always get a refund and wait to see if the game develops enough to purchase.

I'm thinking might as well pre-order the LE. If you don't think they differentiate it enough to make it worthwhile, you can always downgrade to whatever model looks to be the better value and pocket the difference.

And now you've just contributed to duping the next guy........and so have I.

Time for someone to take one of these new fangled pinball control systems and make an El Dorado 2.0.

Edit: Just biding time until the next Alien information. (to sort of bring it back on topic )

This topic is going to be on fire pretty soon.

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I agree that an achievements system could add fun to a game. You might not even need to track per-user.

Just list all the achievements gained at the end of the game. I see people taking cell phone pictures all the time of their final score. They could likewise keep track of their achievements.

Or, similar to JJP, a QR code could also be provided to track your results.

The difference between a leaderboard and an achievement list is that you don't have to be one of the "best" to get an achievement.

One problem I see with newer players is they have no idea what to do and often get disheartened when they see their score compared to the scores on the leaderboard.

Maybe achievement awards would help them feel more successful and alert them that there are things to try for in a game. They might not know how they got the achievement the first time but knowing it exists may make them actually try for it the next time. I think having specific goals are essential to long term pinball fun.

Agreed. Would it be very difficult from a programming standpoint to keep track of specific goals achieved then perhaps display a cool icon and description of each achievement at the end of the game? More complicated would be to display the awards as they were gained with maybe a voice telling the player what they got.

Sounds good.

Something like the "After Action Report" above could also be tied into giving the player a rank at the end of the game. For example, you could work your way up the ladder of characters in the order in which they were killed base on the number of achievements you got.

It looks like there is going to be a lot in the game so I'm sure it's not needed but since we're just throwing around ideas, I think it could be fun to have another way to approach the game other than score and story based game progression.

I used to play "fruit ninja" and there were all kinds of fun side objectives (like hit only apples, or avoid all pears etc...) that were fun to attempt when you felt like a break from going for the high score.

One thing in David's presentation that raised a flag for me was his comment about how they're still working on getting sound and video assets from Fox.

Seems like it would be difficult to plan a cohesive audio and visual package when you don't know what you're going to have to work with.

Any comment on how you guys are dealing with this Aurich?

Thanks.

Looking forward to seeing the game Andrew and like your optimism but somehow I don't think all of those things are going to come together by next week. Best of Luck though.

Because I said I thought it was doubtful all those things would come together in a single week?

I fully support Andrew and am in on an LE. I guess it's just my way of lowering expectations so there is less grumbling when timelines are missed.

I think a black nickel option would look great on an Aliens LE and be more compatible with Full Throttle and future games.

Black-Nickel-Rings.jpg

I am a little concerned that the lighting on FullT is daisy chained like WOZ so if an LED or board fails, everything downstream goes dark. For those with FullT, how robust has the lighting been? Can a bad LED or board be jumped to keep the game mostly operational?

They changed the whole lighting system in the Hobbit to get away from daisy chaining the lights (like on a Christmas tree). Maybe it was just too much wiring to connect all the GI in parallel too.

Also, light failures on WOZ were usually due to driver IC and connector failures rather than LEDs going bad.

I will never pay those ridiculous prices for a machine......oh wait, their making Blade Runner? That's different.

Given the large pinball population there always seems to be enough fans (with deep pockets) of any good theme to sell out of LE's, super LE's, etc... Doesn't seem to matter much what's in the game or the price.

Things always seem to take much longer than expected so I don't get too disappointed when stated timelines aren't met. In the end I just hope for a killer product.

Me too, accept in rare cases like my above downvote to Wickerman's post above which just struck me as a humorous appropriate response.

That being said, a downvote is supposed to mean "disagreement" so I try not to take offense when people downvote my posts.

I'm thinking the issue may be that down the road new FT machines will have the updated cpu so if those buyers get an Alien kit they won't need a new cpu.

Raises hand. The perfect place to put pinball related stuff. I also have an RFM and keep the Episode 1 playfield stored underneath it.

Whatever you say Kaneda.

I really like the way the game is shaping up. Great Job team Heighway!

One thing I miss is a shot that consistently sets up the upper right flipper like in High Speed. This is especially important with the significance of the lock ramp. The upper left flipper sort of does this since the pop bumpers aren't very active. That might not be the case if the pop bumpers are more sensitive.

Perhaps disabling the pops when the ball comes out of the Mystery shot for a few seconds will allow the upper left flipper to feed the upper right flipper.

Edit: Could even make it so the pop bumpers are only deactivated while the left flipper button is held after the mystery shot, so the player can choose to feed the upper flipper or go for the pops.

I'm not into motosports at all but think they work okay for a theme.

For me, Heighway's misstep was announcing Aliens with such an aggressive production date before Full Throttle was even shipping. With their modular system it made more sense to buy Aliens first then add the less desirable Full Throttle kit after. As the Aliens date kept getting pushed out, so did the FT kit purchase.

Not to mention, they expected Aliens to start production in April 2015 when it was first announced!

I think one of the biggest problems with an unlicensed theme for a new company is that people have to play the game and the game has to be good before it sells. People will also be reluctant to buy from an unproven company, so the company has to be able to self finance and withstand this delay until money starts coming in.

From what I've seen, one exception to this is limited games which people may pre-purchase due to perceived collectibility or fear of missing out.

IMO Aliens still looks like a bargain compared to a Stern premium. They just need to get them production worthy.

Locking in the price is the only clear benefit of pre-ordering to me.

JJP started WOZ at $6500 for the ECLE with planned increases in the first year to $7000 and $7500, finally topping out at $9000 towards the end of availability.

That price break came with a bunch of ups and downs and delays and risk.

I really hope Heighway can weather this storm for both the buyers and the people who devoted so much time to getting it to this point. The game looks great.

Except these guys have supposedly been involved with the project for quite some time. It's possible they have a good understanding of the current state of the project and how to move it forward without Andrew's help or interference.

Yep, that's my problem. The manufacturers just aren't raising their prices high enough to continue impressing my friends.

Was really disappointed there wasn't a $15k Star Wars SLE.

I always figured I'd wait to see what the LE looked like once all the features were solidified. If I didn't think it was worth the extra money I could roll back to an SE.

Sounds like some of the LE features are still in flux. Perhaps Heighway could give pre-order buyers the option to keep their LE or go to an SE with select options at the original prices and refund the difference.

Remember when JJP was getting the factory ready for WOZ? A lot goes into setting up a production line for pinball machines.

fw_jersey_jacks_pinball_fortune_0185 (resized).jpg
fw_jersey_jacks_pinball_fortune_0365 (resized).jpg
fw_jersey_jacks_pinball_fortune_0644 (resized).jpg

Not too long ago buyers were anticipating getting no machine and having to scramble to recover any of their deposits.

How times have changed. I know people want to get what was promised but what if the new owners said they can't discount the preorder LEs a significant amount and still stay in business?

Features haven't been 100% finalized yet on the LE.

I think the features on the Standard haven't changed from what was listed.

I'm one of the earlier buyers who got his deposit refunded from Heighway shortly before Andrew left.

At the time I was disappointed more than upset, and relieved to have gotten my money back.

The game is looking good, but it's that feeling of dodging a bullet that keeps me from jumping back in (especially at the higher price point). I will wait until both the game and the company have shown themselves to be reliable.

Still, I realize the company won't succeed if everyone is "waiting", so I appreciate those who are willing to take the chance now.

I wish everyone the best in getting their games, parts or refunds. I'll see where things are in a couple of years and reevaluate.

I hear this sentiment a lot but doubt that it's true.

I suspect that if Heighway (and other struggling manufacturers) were truly transparent and communicated more, people would run for the hills.

From the manufacturer's point of view it's probably better to let people fill in the blanks with their own imagination rather than lie, string them along or confirm their fears. Communication can wait until there is something positive to share.

The original flyer for the Standard said "Game Subject to Change by Production". My expectation was that specifications were even less set in stone for the LE when I preordered.

I figured if I didn't think the final LE features were worth the extra cost, I could drop back to a Standard. Having experienced pricing increases with JJP throughout the long development time of WOZ, I expected price/value would likely be in flux for the Alien LE vs Standard and that the pre-order price for the LE might still be better than a future price of a Standard, even if it ended up without all the listed features.

For HW, it's balancing the risk of losing customers by not giving the expected value vs making enough money to stay in business.

I don't think many of us thought the lighted ramps warranted a $800 upcharge on the Standard. My pre-order was dropped during the turmoil with Andrew but I would have been happy with the 27" monitor upgrade in their stead.

When SkitB announced EOD I saw it as a positive sign, even though it meant they were diverting some resources away from Predator.

Announcing and showing progress on a second title told me they were looking to stay in business past Predator. Didn't really want to buy a machine from a one and done manufacturer, due to lack of future support.

I agree with a previous poster that a viable manufacturer has to be working on the next game while producing the current game due to the long development cycles.

No more pre-orders for me though. I think in the current climate, if they are relying on pre-orders for the next game to stay in business, they are done.

Maybe announcing the next game could be an attempt to attract investors.

I would rather "sell" it for the most money I can get. Which would be to someone who hasn't given me anything yet and is paying the current top price.

I don't think it's bad karma in this case. If the company is barely treading water, new money in may be the only thing that keeps them afloat and helps them get to a point where they can fulfill older orders.

Caveat emptor though. No guarantee money directly to Heighway will result in a game so use a credit card and make sure you're covered.

In that case, ask for COD.

It's probably a fuse.

(sorry for your troubles, just couldn't resist)

I thought there were a lot of people who have already paid in full with Heighway.

I'm sure Heighway would be happy to take your money on a game that hasn't been fully paid for yet. You'll get your game on Tuesday.

That brings up a good question. For those people who have money with Cointaker, would you prefer a refund or a game, on the condition that Cointaker is not responsible for any warranty work?

I think it's a very good thought Ted! If this really is the death knell for Heighway, I expect people will be lining up to snag one of the existing games. And rightly so, by all accounts it's an excellent game and the rarity will make it very valuable. People will figure out how to keep them running. This is no box of lights like Magic Girl.

Cointaker is in weird predicament. They could probably buy the container full and sell them as is at a nice profit if Heighway goes under. However, they're smart not to take shipment on the games if they have to support them in the normal way as a distributor.

Great idea, I'm going to try that on my wife.

"I'd love to tell you why I didn't come home last night but I can't because of an NDA."

I think this supports Forceflow's assertion that factual information from a known pinsider is allowed (regardless of negativivity), since you weren't moderated and your post wasn't deleted.

I appreciated your post back then. I had a deposit down and it was a piece of real information to consider versus all the speculation.

I agree, we should. However, from a forum perspective, if Pinside allows shill accounts to slander a company the potential negative impact is much greater (ie. the company folding) versus Pinside not restraining fanboyism where maybe someone is influenced to pre-order a machine.

With hindsight it's easy to determine what was or wasn't real. In my opinion it's up to each of us to wade through all the information, speculation, opinions, etc.. , and make up our own minds. Caveat Emptor.

I think we're giving up too soon. The new investors may still pull this one out once they reorganize under their new name.

Edit: Guess I should have added a winky emoticon.

The new/old investors had poor communication and some questionable tactics towards the end. Still, don't know if they deserve to be tarred and feathered.

Not sure if all the original buyers who wanted refunds got them, but certainly far more people got refunds or a game than if the new/old investors hadn't taken over and poured more money in.

Is there anyone who stayed in or jumped on board post Andrew without eyes wide open?

Sorry for your loss.

I wonder if she would be offended if she came across the machine and discovered she wasn't in it.

Little chance of that happening now.

Money grows on trees?

People were questioning plenty. Sorry, I wasn't willing to hire a private investigator or forensic accountant in the UK to protect my $1500 deposit.

BTW my deposit was eventually refunded.

Couldn't name a single Iron Maiden song before the pin came out. Was never into heavy metal but listened to the the games entire playlist to see if I could tolerate their music. Sorry, couldn't, sounded like noise to me. Those who do enjoy IM are fortunate because they can get what looks to be an awesome pin.

Of course, as you point out, I did grow up in the Michael Jackson era so that could explain it . Not sure if I qualify as an "old geezer" yet.

Edit: Did the same thing when the Metallica pin came out and could live with those songs.

The artwork on the translite and side panels is different but I like the artwork on the Standard better anyway. I think the reality is an Alien pinball in any form is a limited edition.

#228 LE blue has landed from Australia. No noticeable rough treatment in shipping.

Some blemishes on the glass frame powdercoat in the traditional lock bar area. LE # plastic mounted off center.

Had to bend targets below xeno head forward to prevent jaw from rubbing.

Revive and Scream lights were out, reseating connector fixed problem.

Perhaps the plastic gear is no longer glued to the shaft?

Maybe it's just me, but due to those who have lost money on this game, I cringe a little when I see people raving about the game, discussing mods and looking for repair information in this thread.

Would it be better to ask for repair advice in the thread below? It would help keep the information in one place too.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/heighway-pinball-support-full-throttle-and-alien/page/12#post-4500519

I think there are review threads too that could be added to.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

That's a good point too Aurich. Hmm....

Is moving the excitement of game ownership out of this thread and into others the same as pretending it doesn't exist?

You may be right, if other threads quickly fall off the front page and are lost.

Sorry to hear of your loss. Don't know about recourse and haven't heard of any active lawsuits. Estimate is between 120 and 200 games produced. Last I checked, Wayne (Ballypinball) in Australia has Standards for sale at $9k US in the marketplace.

So far the game has been working and reliable, but not a lot of games on it yet so too soon to know long term.

I haven't heard of anything other than acrylic for the plastics.

Has anyone tried putting mylar on the underside of the plastics?

If it doesn't help prevent breaking, wouldn't it keep the pieces together at least?

I was able to put plastic fender washers below the right slingshot plastic by using a technique Clay H. mentioned of inserting them between the star post and the post stud. I also added them to the inlane guide posts to keep the level constant. Perhaps the protectors can mount the same way.

Major question is which edges need to be protected? Take for example the pop bumper plastic below the right side of the Alien head. Since the acrylic is so brittle, which of the following is better?

1) The typical protector that extends beyond the plastic. This protects against edge strikes but creates a shelf that can be hit from below.
2) No protector. Edge is exposed but doesn't extend beyond the post.

Alien_Pop_Plasitc (resized).png

Curious to see if you think the subwoofer adds much. As it is, I can feel the floor vibrate with the stock speakers on some of the low notes.