(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

4 years ago



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  • 24,837 posts
  • 989 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 hours ago by jwilson
  • Topic is favorited by 268 Pinsiders

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  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

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There are 24837 posts in this topic. You are on page 83 of 497.
#4101 3 years ago

I like the pf art. Great job!
-
The pf has a lot of stuff on it, so a lot of the areas have art that are not gonna be seen. That and the tons of inserts makes it very hard to do art for this pf. The way the artist solved this "problem" was very clever: using small pieces of art from the movie to compose small areas that are seen. Rather than making a huge drawing connecting a big piece of the pf. This connection will be made with art - screw - insert - art - insert - ramp - etc etc. This composition will make it all blend together beautifully.
In the end with all the stuff on top of the pf it will look very very good. Can't wait to see it.

17
#4102 3 years ago
Quoted from zeddex:

The pinside design-by-committee pitchfork mob has fully ramped up again. Just like with Every. Other. Release. The Hobbit set a terrible precident in that it empowered the foot stomping handful of people here that they can affect change (it also did some good in that case, but the fallout is this). Now, when every new pin is announced this same exact dance happens. The foot stompers rush to lock in on some detail and start whipping themselves into a frenzy that it *has* to be changed. This seems to be driven - consciously or subconsciously - by the desire to insert themselves into the design process and nothing more. Pinsiders confused that the reality is their knee jerk reaction to art is not some universal truth....just their opinion. I also have to say it was disheartening to watch Aurich lead the charge in the for RZ as he is normally a calm voice of reason here.....because the same reaction to Alien was also inevitable. I am a lifelong fan of Alien and can think of 50 totally different directions the play field could have gone in.....of course, those seem more interesting to me but I am not making the pinball. I didn't start with a blank page and create something that needed to adhere to and accommodate more people than just me. The play field is just fine and will work great with the rest of the game....plastics, you'd, video, lighting. I am focusing on how awesome pinball is right now because of companies and pins like this....relish in being on a forum where you see things first and interact directly with pinball companies. If you want to design a pinball, the go do that too! Seriously, that would be a much better and positive use of energy. Also - you will pry that Nostromo patch element from my cold, dead hands. It is what it is people.....deal.

yeah i get where you are coming from, and agree that Pinside Mob Mentality should absolutely not rule when it comes to designing pins. Committees are rarely an asset to creative or artistic endeavors, especially committees with fleeting knowledge of important contextual details such as license requirements, game rules, other features and playfield elements, etc. (and of course being an enthusiastic pinball collector does not necessarily translate to being a good pinball designer).

However, I think there are several factors that complicate the issue:

1. JJP's Hobbit playfield was significantly improved as a result of Pinside's input. i agree it sets a bad precedent, but the short term effect did end up being positive for that game, both artistically and from a PR standpoint. keep that in mind.

2. Game of Thrones playfield really is objectively awful from a design perspective. The outcry was entirely justified there. Also, Stern didn't noticeably change the art for that game. They probably couldn't have even if they'd wanted to -- they were no doubt much further along in the process than JJP was. Anyway, hopefully, the criticism does have an impact and lead to better efforts in the future from Stern. (not hating on Stern - i think they build fantastic pinball machines)

3. I think there is an element of "revenge" going on here from a couple of posters (not all of course!). There's a poster or two who couldn't wait to give Aurich a taste of what they feel he's been dishing out. (personally i've always thought Aurich's design critiques were on point and well-intentioned, but that is not a universal opinion).

So anyway, we have reached a point now where every art reveal is accompanied by an avalanche of criticism, which has an undercurrent now of expectation that their criticisms will be acted upon in the final product. I don't know how you backtrack from that precedent, unless you start doing things the Stern way, and not revealing artwork until everything is nearly ready to go out the door. Unfortunately, I think Stern is the only company that can afford to do things that way, so the status quo is probably something the smaller game makers are just going to have to navigate as best they can.

21
#4103 3 years ago
Quoted from S0RRY:

Not sure if anyone pointed it out yet, but I think "insure" here should be "ensure":

I appreciate the thought, but that text is directly taken from the film.

Alien-Cap00023_(resized).png

#4104 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I appreciate the thought, but that text is directly taken from the film.

We're down to grammar now...

Let's see a fully assembled prototype!

24
#4105 3 years ago

Also, for the record, my feeling is discussion forums are for discussing. I don't mind any of the conversation going on. Happy to answer questions, and I'm reading everything even if I don't respond.

You can't make everyone happy. A part someone doesn't care for it someone else's favorite, it happens. I don't take any of it personally. A few comments have been maybe mean spirited, but whatever, I have thick skin, I won't lose any sleep over it.

My philosophy has always been that people should speak their mind, and that as a community we can benefit from "the wisdom of crowds". I don't see how it changes because we're commenting on my design instead of Stern or Spooky or anyone else.

#4106 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I appreciate the thought, but that text is directly taken from the film.
Alien-Cap00023_(resized).png

Thankfully the text is pretty tiny, else I could never un-see the "misspelling".

#4107 3 years ago
Quoted from pezpunk:

JJP's Hobbit playfield was significantly improved as a result of Pinside's input.

Don't forget that JJP had a year to sit on and improve their playfield design because I believe they didn't have any money to manufacture the game i.e. appeared they were in financial straits.

Quoted from pezpunk:

Also, Stern didn't noticeably change the art for that game. They probably couldn't have even if they'd wanted to..

No question about it. Stern had GOT playfields built, cabinets built, accessories sourced, built and received when the game was announced.

#4108 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Last PF art that I didn't hear a negative peep about was Metallica.

Yes it was universally embraced as great from the get-go. Which begs the question, If Stern can produce a playfield with such pleasing art, why follow it with TWD (ok) and GOT (less than average)? It implies Stern doesn't what good playfield art should look like and that they leave it up to the individual artist. With MET, Dirty Donny hit one out of the park, but since there is no design sense, it wasn't captured for prosperity. What followed MET design was a resumption of this practive and mediocre work ensued.

edit* - I forgot about KISS, it is really nicely done and received much praise as a result. But Stern has been on quite a dry spell until MET & KISS and quality art direction appears to be total hit or miss.

#4109 3 years ago

I've learned from GOT not to put too much stock in PF art. The GOT playfield looks like crap (although it grows on you), but the game is amazing. If you don't like Aurich's work, will it really matter if Alien is an amazing game as well?

Aurich - Nice work! I couldn't do it, so I shut my mouth about it.

#4110 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

I've learned from GOT not to put too much stock in PF art. The GOT playfield looks like crap (although it grows on you), but the game is amazing. If you don't like Aurich's work, will it really matter if Alien is an amazing game as well?

The true weak spot of GOT is the red dots. Alien has that covered, plus all the extra goodies like the light show. I have many "bad art" pins (I'm looking at you ac/dc), so I know the entire package is how things should be looked at.

#4111 3 years ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

With MET, Stern accidentally hit one out of the park, and followed that with a resumption of mediocre work or business as usual.

Poor Kiss. Already forgotten.

I dont mind the Alien play field art at all. I didn't mind GoT either. Art is subjective.

Though, if Stern released this play field art work, I believe the thread would look much different. IMHO.

#4112 3 years ago
Quoted from smokedog:

Poor Kiss. Already forgotten.
I dont mind the Alien play field art at all. I didn't mind GoT either. Art is subjective.
Though, if Stern released this play field art work, I believe the thread would look much different. IMHO.

in which way?

#4113 3 years ago
Quoted from voodle:

Ok, I'll be bold.
I've add my own interpretation to the artwork and photoshopped the original by deleting the 'cartoon' elements and non-core element like the badges, flames, text and some color splatter around the space ships.
You can click on it to get a larger view.
Mine is on the left, the original on the right.
Personally I think it looks cleaner and they need make sure the planet art doesn't cut into the LCD screen.

sideBysideAlien_(resized).jpg

This does look immensely better. The original looks very crowded and with little if any artistic cohesion in the areas to the upper left and upper right of the LCD. Without that mess drawing the beholder's eye, the whole playfield works and no one area stands out (like.a sore thumb). It all flows ... hopefully like the gameplay will.

Maybe some of the removed elements can be reused elsewhere, but in less obtrusive fashion.

Really hope the PF is revised in this direction. I wasn't a fan of those elements before, but now they remind me of Red Dwarf - not in a good way ..... the deliberately hilarious tin cans floating in space shots, with ultra crude special effects. Can't unsee.

#4114 3 years ago

Playfield art is complete. Revising, means sending all of it back to Fox and saying "we know you approved this but we thought we'd change a bunch of stuff...can you look at it all again?". Doubt that will happen (it won't). Game might be ready to show in March!

PS this is a stripped playfield. You typically have things called plastics, pop bumpers, slingshots, ramps, ball guides, LCD(!) that will go on it and drastically change the look.

#4115 3 years ago

It seems like the display on the playfield could play off the art work. Like maybe replace the planet with a helmet and have the visor reflection present scenes of whatever mode you are in:

helmet_(resized).PNG

#4116 3 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Playfield art is complete. Revising, means sending all of it back to Fox and saying "we know you approved this but we thought we'd change a bunch of stuff...can you look at it all again?". Doubt that will happen (it won't). Game might be ready to show in March!
PS this is a stripped playfield. You typically have things called plastics, pop bumpers, slingshots, ramps, ball guides, LCD(!) that will go on it and drastically change the look.

I don't know why you keep saying this. It's untrue on several levels.

getting those removed would absolutely not prove a problem.

the playfield is not finalised, nor is the shot and structure map completely tuned.

even if the above were true and finalised, the design hasn't been sent off to the printers for either initial or mass production. nor will it be. they do it all in house.

the literature from Heighway even says in big letters "Artwork subject to change".

I get that you don't want it changed, but stop spreading fud.

#4117 3 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

the literature from Heighway even say in big letters "PLAYFIELD ART SUBJECT TO CHANGE".

The guy that made the art that represents heighway says the exact opposite.

-1
#4118 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'm sure some things will change as we build the second white wood, but probably just little things. Going through a whole new round of Fox approvals seems pretty unlikely to me, who knows how much it would delay things. So I'd say this is final for the most part.

this

PS I'm not saying I don't want it changed...it looks fine to me and I think it will look much different when assembled. I am just stating the REALITY of what was already stated here.

PSS I don't know what "spreading fud" means but it sounds like it should be moderated

#4119 3 years ago

Guys, no need to argue.

You're never going to please everyone, and I wouldn't even try to. I'm always open to suggestions, I don't think I'm always right. I'm sure we'll adjust some things.

My suggestion? Wait for the game to be populated, because that's what I'm doing. I haven't seen the playfield with all the ramps and mechs etc myself. If something needs adjusting then I'll take care of it, within whatever constraints the license has on us.

In the meantime people are free to have opinions.

#4120 3 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

the literature from Heighway even say in big letters "Artwork subject to change".

This is probably because they had the literature printing well before the artwork was finalized, which I believe was only last week! If you have a trade show in a week, you're printing literature well in advance.

#4121 3 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

The guy that made the art that represents heighway says the exact opposite.

No he doesn't. He's also subcontracted rather than Heighway personnel. Removing minor elements of an existing design is not a redesign.

Also I'm assuming you contend that the sales pamphlet which was handed to me by a Heighway employee was counterfeit. What about the banner on their stand with the same "Artwork subject to change" printed on it, was it the work of the same devious scallywag?

#4122 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Also, for the record, my feeling is discussion forums are for discussing. I don't mind any of the conversation going on. Happy to answer questions, and I'm reading everything even if I don't respond.
You can't make everyone happy. A part someone doesn't care for it someone else's favorite, it happens. I don't take any of it personally. A few comments have been maybe mean spirited, but whatever, I have thick skin, I won't lose any sleep over it.
My philosophy has always been that people should speak their mind, and that as a community we can benefit from "the wisdom of crowds". I don't see how it changes because we're commenting on my design instead of Stern or Spooky or anyone else.

It was good to hear you on nates podcast to explain the game. I'm looking forward to see all togather before I buy. But sounds like its going to be awesome and after looking over art its pretty kool.

#4123 3 years ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

This is probably because they had the literature printing well before the artwork was finalized, which I believe was only last week! If you have a trade show in a week, you're printing literature well in advance.

As I posted yesterday, literature = pf image with that on it.

#4124 3 years ago

The artwork is subject to change. Look at the CAD image I posted earlier. I have to move the upper right flipper down, the Weyland Yutani inserts up, the lower right Special insert down, there are new post positions, new ball guide positions, and I don't know what else yet.

Don't read too much into it.

#4125 3 years ago

With bright ramp stickers like this, the contrast of the Alien playfield wil pop out.
You have to see the complete playfield in your head with lighter bright colors on the plastics.
Then it wil look great i think.
Lets wait and see.

danger_sign_(resized).jpg

#4126 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Last PF art that I didn't hear a negative peep about was Metallica.

I don't remember much criticism about Kiss artwork? (maybe the three Pro/Pre/LE cabinets being too similar?)
You have to admit it was a nice hommage to the Bally version.

#4127 3 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

I don't remember much criticism about Kiss artwork? (maybe the three Pro/Pre/LE cabinets being too similar?)
You have to admit it was a nice hommage to the Bally version.

Well it didn't look as pretty as Popadiuk's cabinet and playfield art .. which he somehow thought would be viable to show a year after it leaked that Stern had the license. Stern KISS looks fine though. GoT on the other hand makes me nervous about all their future games.

#4128 3 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

I don't remember much criticism about Kiss artwork? (maybe the three Pro/Pre/LE cabinets being too similar?)
You have to admit it was a nice hommage to the Bally version.

Oh, that was goo too. I keep forgetting Kiss because I've yet to see or play one.

#4129 3 years ago

I also like the inclusion of fan elements like the patches but think they don't fit with the playfield art and would be better placed elsewhere, like on the plastics or apron.

To those who say it's a done deal, Aurich has repeatedly said he has to make changes so why not give him suggestions? It's easy to get lost in the details of a project. I think it's helpful to get inputs from people who are not uber fans and who are not so close to the project.

If I remember correctly, he also said FOX approved the playfield on the first pass, so it doesn't sound like there has been a lot of back-and-forth to deal with at this point.

I have a hard time understanding the desire some have to cut corners just to get something quickly. For a great theme like Alien and at a price of $6k to $8k, why not make another pass if it greatly improves the look of the game? What's a little delay versus looking at elements on the playfield that are a bit of an eyesore IMO for the next 20 years?

I expect there are other aspects of the game that will require more time anyway if the tweaks to the artwork require going through the approval process one more time. Is it likely FOX will have a problem if all Aurich does is remove the cartoony elements and patches as voodle demonstrated?

#4130 3 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Guys, no need to argue.
You're never going to please everyone, and I wouldn't even try to. I'm always open to suggestions, I don't think I'm always right. I'm sure we'll adjust some things.
My suggestion? Wait for the game to be populated, because that's what I'm doing. I haven't seen the playfield with all the ramps and mechs etc myself. If something needs adjusting then I'll take care of it, within whatever constraints the license has on us.
In the meantime people are free to have opinions.

You haven't seen a populated game with toys?? Shouldn't art be last to integrate smoothly with the layout and toys?

#4131 3 years ago

All this art needs is a rug to bring it all together. (am I late to the game with that? I haven't been monitoring the thread.)

But seriously, as someone who saw Alien in the theater when it first came out and who has been a die hard fan of the franchise I like it and I think I'll like it more once we see a populated play field.

#4132 3 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

To those who say it's a done deal, Aurich has repeatedly said he has to make changes so why not give him suggestions? It's easy to get lost in the details of a project. I think it's helpful to get inputs from people who are not uber fans and who are not so close to the project.

Maybe he should clear this up. "this is final for the most part." vs. "The artwork is subject to change."

Then we will know whether it's just fun speculation to change things around or an actual give and take where there is a real chance major items can be altered and sent back for approval...all before March when there was a tentative possibility of a complete prototype.

#4133 3 years ago

Make two layouts and do a poll.

#4134 3 years ago

I'd imagine artwork isn't that easy with the limited space to work with given the amount of real estate on the playfield taken by the screen/ramps etc..

#4135 3 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

Maybe he should clear this up. "this is final for the most part." vs. "The artwork is subject to change."
Then we will know whether it's just fun speculation to change things around or an actual give and take where there is a real chance major items can be altered and sent back for approval...all before March when there was a tentative possibility of a complete prototype.

He already did clear it up. 8 or so posts above yours.

Quoted from Aurich:

I'm always open to suggestions, I don't think I'm always right. I'm sure we'll adjust some things.

Quoted from Aurich:

The artwork is subject to change.

#4136 3 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

...all before March when there was a tentative possibility of a complete prototype.

I would expect them to make layout and art changes after their first prototype.

-1
#4137 3 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

To those who say it's a done deal, Aurich has repeatedly said he has to make changes so why not give him suggestions?

Okay. Here is my suggestion: Don't change a thing! Playfield is perfect, as is!

#4138 3 years ago

All these suggestions of removing accompanying insert graphics are foolish IMO. You will want and need this context when the game is complete. I actually think it would be better if these graphics could be larger and truly surround and integrate with the insert, but the source artwork was too low-res for that, I understand.

Without these graphics you end up with bland and, frankly, pointless and unhelpful inserts like those on AFM that merely use plain text to explain each one. Visual cues are much better and the added fan service is awesome.

#4139 3 years ago

Bright ramp stickers +1000

#4140 3 years ago
Quoted from Nelly:

He already did clear it up. 8 or so posts above yours.

yet also, "this is final for the most part."

#4141 3 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

yet also, "this is final for the most part."

Which is basically also saying that things could still change. Nothing is final until they start building games to be boxed up.

#4142 3 years ago
Quoted from accidental:

All these suggestions of removing accompanying insert graphics are foolish IMO.

This is what I love about opinions. Aurich can take them all in, incorporate the ones he likes (if any) and disregard the rest. I don't see a down side to this process and it could lead to a better machine.

#4143 3 years ago
Quoted from Wickerman2:

yet also, "this is final for the most part."

I take this to mean he is not going to go into an entirely new direction but can make changes.

#4144 3 years ago
Quoted from Nelly:

Which is basically also saying that things could still change. Nothing is final until they start building games to be boxed up.

ok...it's almost like we need some clarification on that

#4145 3 years ago

I'm with the pitchfork and torches mob that doesn't like the cartoony stuff. Also I'm still not loving the wrinkly shrinkwrap vagina thing at the top.

Otherwise I stand by my 8/10 review. Without the cartoony stuff I'd go 9/10.

#4146 3 years ago

Lots to like about the art and lots not to like. Overall I find a lack of consistency in the style of the art, seems like three of four different styles combined and that just seems off to me. I think TBL has a little bit of this mixed style as well, but to a far lesser degree, since it seems, based on memory, to be just the characters that were of a different style than the rest.

There other aspects that don't sit right, but really hard to really judge until it is populated. I don't get the closed in feeling of the movies, that added to the intensity.

I like the movies, but I'm not a die hard fan, so this was not a must have theme for me, but one I was open to. However, I will say from what I see right now, this does not make me want to go grab my credit card. I'll hold off on final judgement until I can see the whole package of art, plastics and playfield components.

I have to think Aurich now has a better appreciation for what other artists have done, and the challenges associated with doing art for a pinball machine, especially when a licensed theme is involved. Hard to make everyone happy even when you don't have those types of constraints, and in this case, I don't think he also had the designer putting in his two cents, although I am sure there were plenty of opinions from folks at heighway.

#4147 3 years ago

Looks like you guys are officially on IPDB. Just logged on and saw ALIEN in the top right machine feature square. YOUVE MADE IT!

#4148 3 years ago

Looks good to me, but until all together, just whistles in a windstorm.

I want to see glossy cab, chromed trim, lit up with large lcd, small lcd screen options, with this populated playfield installed. hoping its on its way now.

#4149 3 years ago

I consider the movie as more of a haunted ship movie, this is more Star Trekie outer space motif.

#4150 3 years ago

I can't decide if i actually like it not. It gets the job done i guess, but so do washing machines. There's not really any "art", just photoshop design and layout. It looks very similar to website design, a set background with strategically placed buttons and icons. Nothing really cohesive (comic book alien and movie alien should never show up in the same place). Plus there's nothing that draws your eye in like a killer looking alien dead center. I do like the inserts and decals/logos/patches though but the rest is kinda blurred together.

undecided_(resized).jpg

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