(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 3 days ago by MK6PIN
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  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

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#21601 1 year ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

Why is it when this shit goes down with rotten companies it comes down to Lord of the Flies with fellow Pinsiders?

Because people are pissed off about being lied to and having lost money, the culprits usually run off, so that anger gets turned inwards towards members of the pinball community. Like I said, this is the 3rd (maybe 4th?) time this exact scenario has played out, so maybe in the future it'll be different. Let's have a little less cheerleading and a bit more critical thinking.

It's interesting to note that the whole 'transparent screen' debacle wasn't mentioned in that TWIP article. That was another example of multiple people, with a technological background, being paid by Andy to provide technical advice being completely ignored and money being flushed down the drain. Andy didn't like it if you said 'No' to him, even if you had very good reason to do so.

22
#21602 1 year ago
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:

Because people are pissed off about being lied to and having lost money, the culprits usually run off, so that anger gets turned inwards towards members of the pinball community.

And I think that's bullshit. You lose money you can blame yourself (if there were reasons to be sceptical) and you can blame the party that took it...but don't go hunting down 3rd parties just so you have someone to yell at...childish.

Do your own "due diligence" before putting your money on the line (if you care about your money).

I gamble from time to time...never in a casino...but in life. I knew I was gambling when I sent my money to Heighway. I'm gambling right now in crypto currencies. If Bitcoin tanks I'm not going after anyone and everyone who ever "pumped it". Do your own damn homework if you care about the outcome.

-1
#21603 1 year ago

You say that because you were one of the cheerleaders.

I'm amongst the 5 first Heighway game owners in the US and noticed you and your behaviour when you started to pop up in the threads.

#21604 1 year ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

You say that because you were one of the cheerleaders.

I think he says that because it's true.

It is beyond ridiculous to blame any random idiot on Pinside who stupidly, blindly, ridiculously cheered on HP. Completely ridiculous.

15
#21605 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

And I think that's bullshit. You lose money you can blame yourself

And the cycle continues.

Quoted from RTS:

It is beyond ridiculous to blame any random idiot on Pinside who stupidly, blindly, ridiculously cheered on HP.

For what it's worth, I agree with you. But when people are pointing out obvious issues they shouldn't be hounded and downvoted into oblivion because the cheerleaders didn't like to hear it.

#21606 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

And I think that's bullshit. You lose money you can blame yourself (if there were reasons to be sceptical) and you can blame the party that took it...but don't go hunting down 3rd parties just so you have someone to yell at...childish.
Do your own "due diligence" before putting your money on the line (if you care about your money).
I gamble from time to time...never in a casino...but in life. I knew I was gambling when I sent my money to Heighway. I'm gambling right now in crypto currencies. If Bitcoin tanks I'm not going after anyone and everyone who ever "pumped it". Do your own damn homework if you care about the outcome.

More money to be made in shorting it! But I agree with your sentiment. However, what we don’t have to put up with is folks who have clearly lied (like Andrew) who not only lied but took money under false pretences I.e. is a fraudster/thief etc.

#21607 1 year ago

You guys think a new thread should be created called "Heighway Pinball is Bankrupt" or the like since this thread is called "ALIEN PINBALL - Official Game Thread" ?

#21608 1 year ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

You guys think a new thread should be created called "Heighway Pinball is Bankrupt" or the like since this thread is called "ALIEN PINBALL - Official Game Thread" ?

How about "Alien Pinball , its officially over "

42
#21609 1 year ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

How about "Alien Pinball , its officially over "

Even better:

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over.

#21610 1 year ago

From the perspective of someone coming to pinside there isn’t really an indication that Heighway is out of business. We just happen to be discussing it in an Alien thread which we cant change the topic on.

#21611 1 year ago

For the $1,500 deposit, I could have bought a ticket to the Fyre Festival!

http://www.businessinsider.com/fyre-festival-expectations-vs-reality-2017-4

#21612 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

Even better:
ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over.

Good idea

#21613 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

Even better:
ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over.

That one is the best... there's also Alien Pinball - we're dogmeat man.

#21614 1 year ago
Quoted from DerGoetz:

You say that because you were one of the cheerleaders.

You clearly don't know me very well.

#21616 1 year ago

Well he did get one thing right ....

"[22:30:30] Andrew Heighway: It's a disgrace"

#21617 1 year ago

So reading some posts about not blaming pinsiders for pumping, being excited, etc.
I see that most agree with this stance based on the upvotes to those posts and people quoting in agreement.

But at the same time it seems to be so fashionable to pile on Hilton, calling him shillton, get away freely with breaking pinside rules, and digging up endless posts from the past to ridicule with.

Personally for me over the years during my alien ride, there are a few pinsiders who are kind of my “Hilton” but if I were to drag them through the mud right now I could surely expect massive downvote & moderation

Popularity contest?

#21618 1 year ago
Quoted from EalaDubhSidhe:

I have no idea what's going to happen yet in the future, what I can say for sure is that if Alien and Full Throttle are both canned just like that, it'll mean an utter waste of five years of my life under Andrew, right from the very start, for less than no benefit whatsoever and nothing to show for it, either personally, financially or productively. With what I had to spend to get here, I could have sat on my arse in Northern Ireland doing nothing and been around £20k better off in the long run than I am now, and from promises I was given to join in the first place, I'm out a potential six-figure sum, and I *wasn't* an investor. No salary, nothing ever made official, just vague assurances of 'royalties' that I refused point blank to ever agree to. I finally got a contract once he'd gone, but the one thing you can't put a price on is all that *time*.

We still have full throttle several years later running strong at our location. People really love it here and appreciate the design. We’ll keep it alive and running as long as we can here. Unfortunately we will never drop that alien kit in we payed in full for....

-Jim

#21619 1 year ago
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

We still have full throttle several years later running strong at our location. People really love it here and appreciate the design. We’ll keep it alive and running as long as we can here. Unfortunately we will never drop that alien kit in we payed in full for....
-Jim

I just read a post from Feb 2017 where Andrew told you that your kit would be ready in "2 weeks"! Man, what a complete load of BS. February 2017!!!

#21620 1 year ago
Quoted from Sonny_Jim:

For what it's worth, I agree with you. But when people are pointing out obvious issues they shouldn't be hounded and downvoted into oblivion because the cheerleaders didn't like to hear it.

I can agree with that.

#21621 1 year ago
Quoted from RyanStl:

Why is it when this shit goes down with rotten companies it comes down to Lord of the Flies with fellow Pinsiders?

Quoted from Astropin:

You lose money you can blame yourself (if there were reasons to be sceptical) and you can blame the party that took it...but don't go hunting down 3rd parties just so you have someone to yell at...childish.

Quoted from RTS:

It is beyond ridiculous to blame any random idiot on Pinside who stupidly, blindly, ridiculously cheered on HP. Completely ridiculous.

Anger is a very natural human reaction from people suffering a loss. Some people deal with losses better than others, but most people go through the same Five Stages of Grief [1]...

The Five Stages of Grief:

1. Denial
2. Anger <---
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

-- Swiss Psychiatrist Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, 1969

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model

-6
#21622 1 year ago

I think we're giving up too soon. The new investors may still pull this one out once they reorganize under their new name.

Edit: Guess I should have added a winky emoticon.

#21623 1 year ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

I think we're giving up too soon. The new investors may still pull this one out once they reorganize under their new name.

No, they will not be producing any more Aliens and estimates are 75 machines were made. Sounds like they are selling remaining 24 machines to EU. Their primary objective is to sell Queen pinball machines. Odds of success are between zero and a long shot (much closer to zero).

#21624 1 year ago
Quoted from Razorbak86:

Anger is a very natural human reaction from people suffering a loss. Some people deal with losses better than others, but most people go through the same Five Stages of Grief [1]...
The Five Stages of Grief:
1. Denial
2. Anger <---
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
-- Swiss Psychiatrist Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, 1969
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model

I think I tend to go straight to the last two.

34
#21625 1 year ago

riverinegypt (resized).png

#21626 1 year ago
Quoted from Fintan_Stack:

I just read a post from Feb 2017 where Andrew told you that your kit would be ready in "2 weeks"! Man, what a complete load of BS. February 2017!!!

Yup. Sucks but no sense getting pissed now. Move on. Plenty of great things in life.

42
#21627 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

No, they will not be producing any more Aliens and estimates are 75 machines were made. Sounds like they are selling remaining 24 machines to EU. Their primary objective is to sell Queen pinball machines. Odds of success are between zero and a long shot (much closer to zero).

The fact that they're selling those games to new buyers and NOT sending them to customers who have already paid has GOT to be illegal....if not, then a total douche move & should always be remembered & repeated when they start their new CONpany. I'll say it right here so it's preserved for Google (unless it gets moderated lol). NEVER BUY A PINBALL MACHINE from "The Pinball Brothers" or anyone who was involved in the fraudulent failure of a company from the liar windbag Andrew Heighway.

#21628 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

The fact that they're selling those games to new buyers and NOT sending them to customers who have already paid has GOT to be illegal....if not, then a total douche move & should always be remembered & repeated when they start their new CONpany. I'll say it right here so it's preserved for Google (unless it gets moderated lol). NEVER BUY A PINBALL MACHINE from "The Pinball Brothers" or anyone who was involved in the fraudulent failure of a company from the liar windbag Andrew Heighway.

I would have spelled it COmpaNy. I still recommended your post.

#21629 1 year ago

So, how many games were built? Seems like over 100.. can anyone definitively answer now that it's over?

#21630 1 year ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

So, how many games were built? Seems like over 100.. can anyone definitively answer now that it's over?

Someone said 75...I have no idea.

#21631 1 year ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

So, how many games were built? Seems like over 100.. can anyone definitively answer now that it's over?

Not enough.

#21633 1 year ago

if you want to see how despicable Andrew Heighway is, read this thread below. The man is a calculating (but stupid) abusive, thieving conman and should be doing jail time.

http://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/new-heighway-owner.36701/page-19

how he has the nerve to even consider speaking is just mental.

#21634 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

how he has the nerve to even consider speaking is just mental.

Everything Andrews says may be used against him for future litigation - these allegations are serious enough to warrant a serious investigation.

May be best for Dave to stop going public until he finds legal advice. I know he is broke and lawyers are not cheap. But I would be happy to contribute.
Hell, I am ready to match the cost of a first consultation myself!
Say up to $200?

#21635 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

if you want to see how despicable Andrew Heighway is, read this thread below. The man is a calculating (but stupid) abusive, thieving conman and should be doing jail time.
http://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/new-heighway-owner.36701/page-19
how he has the nerve to even consider speaking is just mental.

I am beyond astonished. That Andrew can live with himself after all the sneeky things he has done goes beyond my imagination. What a jerk.

If anybody starts a money raise for Dave, count me in. He should get out of this mess asap so he can move on with his life.

#21636 1 year ago
Quoted from jlm33:

Everything Andrews says may be used against him for future litigation - these allegations are serious enough to warrant a serious investigation.
May be best for Dave to stop going public until he finds legal advice. I know he is broke and lawyers are not cheap. But I would be happy to contribute.
Hell, I am ready to match the cost of a first consultation myself!
Say up to $200?

Good man

I think someone on pinballinfo is going to set up a gofund page or whatever it’s called. Will post link if no one else does. Dave sure deserves a little help at this time

#21637 1 year ago
Quoted from drinkduffbeers:

Good man
I think someone on pinballinfo is going to set up a gofund page or whatever it’s called.

If you have the link please post it in a separate thread here on Pinside. I hope many of us here are willing to get Dave out of this mess.

19
#21638 1 year ago

Daves Go Fund Me:

https://www.gofundme.com/dave-sanders-fund

Hopefully it will go past the £1000 mark and a lot further..

#21639 1 year ago
Quoted from Marv:

Daves Go Fund Me:
https://www.gofundme.com/dave-sanders-fund
Hopefully it will go past the £1000 mark and a lot further..

Donated.

Thanks for organizing this.

#21640 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

if you want to see how despicable Andrew Heighway is, read this thread below. The man is a calculating (but stupid) abusive, thieving conman and should be doing jail time.
http://www.pinballinfo.com/community/threads/new-heighway-owner.36701/page-19
how he has the nerve to even consider speaking is just mental.

The sad reality is that people like Andrew are unlikely to get their comeuppance. People who do this sort of thing are sharp (I'm reluctant to say "smart" or "clever") enough to know exactly what they can and can't get away with saying, or promising to people, without getting themselves into legal trouble. He will more than likely continue to prevail at the expense of other victims.

And what in reality can most people do about the whole Heighway situation? You can't practically take anyone to court because their business failed. The logistics of it make it difficult for most customers to achieve anything. Even UK-based customers are probably not going to see anything from the liquidation of Heighway Pinball, let alone international customers. And you can be certain that the directors have orchestrated all of this in a way that isolates them from any legal action. Sadly there are legal - if not ethical - avenues for companies to unburden themselves from the debt of unsecured creditors and keep operating. I don't doubt that we'll soon see "The Pinball Brothers" or whatever touting their services again.

Let's also be clear about this - Andrew made promises to people that he knew full well would never be honoured, but the new directors are no saints either. It wasn't so long ago that there was an email circulating inviting people to pay the balance of their order to "maybe" get a magical cancelled LE. And it's this new set of directors that have been hopeless with customer service, etc leading to Cointaker pulling out. That happened on their watch, not Andrews. With the exception of non-director level employees and others involved - the whole Heighway architecture has been rotten from the start.

#21641 1 year ago
Quoted from Marv:

Daves Go Fund Me:
https://www.gofundme.com/dave-sanders-fund
Hopefully it will go past the £1000 mark and a lot further..

Nice one for sorting. Donation sent.

Hopefully this will give Dave the little boost he deserves from the community

14
#21642 1 year ago

This is all of Andrew's making. Not the investors. They may have been foolish, as so many of us were, and lost a ridiculous amount of money on someone whose sole purpose was to bleed and leech others dry.

The main reason it was such a clusterfuck after they took over was cashflow. The picture Andrew painted, and their interpretation of it were nowhere even close to the truth.

The machine was a wreck that needed many months more revision and testing, to fix all the stuff that was wrong with it and test all the stuff that hadn't been. Overheads were higher. Financial encumberances and liabilities were much worse than presented.

Even if they were prepared to plough millions into the business in the long run, they could not or would not either justify or afford to so quickly.

They've done the same thing as the others who lost - trusted a cretinous loser, with predictable consequences. Expecting them to continue making everything better for the others, or not to say enough is enough at some point is ridiculous.

ALL the old money was gone when they took over, most of it was the moment it went in, when ever it was deposited. Anyone they made good in part or in whole after their take over, that came directly out of their pockets.

It's my view that they should have let the company fail, and then acquired the company from liquidators, or sued Andrew to wrest control, and not taken over any of the liabilities. Even if they did want to make things good for others, they could have done so at their own speed and therefore not suffered a cash crunch. It also wouldn't have granted him an escape route. He'd have either had to face the consequences, or flee - and from what one heard, his bags were packed until the deal went through.

I think that was their plan originally. But I suspect Andrew managed to give them a better impression of the game than it warranted, and then took an over-my-dead-body approach if they wouldn't pay him, and pay him right now.

I think they're very unwise to continue. They're likely going to end up wasting more of their lives and money in chasing an embarrassing mistake, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Andrew gets a great kick out of that.

#21643 1 year ago
Quoted from Marv:

Daves Go Fund Me:
https://www.gofundme.com/dave-sanders-fund
Hopefully it will go past the £1000 mark and a lot further..

I love when the community can rally like this. Props to everyone involved.

Dave, as a Full Throttle owner I have admired your work. You are very talented. There is something great waiting out there for you, even if that is not known to you at this time.

#21644 1 year ago

This is a useful article for anyone owed money by Highway Pinball
https://www.realbusinessrescue.co.uk/business-insolvency/trading-insolvent-director-responsibilities/can-directors-be-held-liable-for-company-debts-in-a-ltd-company

In particular:

Instances in Which a Director Could Be Held Liable For Company Debts:

Directors' personal liabilities for company debts can be proved if it can be shown that they performed any inappropriate actions:

Continuing to pay shareholders dividends whilst the company is insolvent

Using fraudulent methods to raise the funds needed to repay creditors (i.e. – obtaining financing using misleading or inaccurate information, or collecting payment for goods or services that could not be delivered)

Withdrawing and/or using company funds for non-business activity; this is an offence known as misfeasance

Entering into a personal guarantee and then breaching its terms

Disposing of the company's assets at undervalue or no value

#21645 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

This is all of Andrew's making. Not the investors. They may have been foolish, as so many of us were, and lost a ridiculous amount of money on someone whose sole purpose was to bleed and leech others dry.
The main reason it was such a clusterfuck after they took over was cashflow. The picture Andrew painted, and their interpretation of it were nowhere even close to the truth.
The machine was a wreck that needed many months more revision and testing, to fix all the stuff that was wrong with it and test all the stuff that hadn't been. Overheads were higher. Financial encumberances and liabilities were much worse than presented.
Even if they they were prepared to plough millions into the business in the long run, they could not or would not either justify or afford to so quickly.
They've done the same thing as the others who lost - trusted a cretinous loser, with predictable consequences. Expecting them to continue making everything better for the others, or not to say enough is enough at some point is ridiculous.
ALL the old money was gone when they took over, most of it was the moment it went in, when ever it was deposited. Anyone they made good in part or in whole after their take over, that came directly out of their pockets.
It's my view that they should have let the company fail, and then acquired the company from liquidators, or sued Andrew to wrest control, and not taken over any of the liabilities. Even if they did want to make things good for others, they could have done so at their own speed and therefore not suffered a cash crunch. It also wouldn't have granted him an escape route. He'd have either had to face the consequences, or flee - and from what one heard, his bags were packed until the deal went through.
I think that was their plan originally. But I suspect Andrew managed to give them a better impression of the game than it warranted, and then took an over-my-dead-body approach if they wouldn't pay him, and pay him right now.
I think they're very unwise to continue, however. They're likely going to end up wasting more of their lives and money in chasing an embarrassing mistake, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Andrew gets a great kick out of that.

All of that doesn't excuse their almost complete absence of customer service towards Cointaker or individuals who just wanted parts to fix their broken machines, or that email that they sent to however many people (several people on here got it) just recently offering the chance of a "cancelled LE with green trim" if people paid up in full. That went out after the point at which they must've known the company was terminal. Who knows how many people lost money on that...

#21646 1 year ago
Quoted from Durzel:

All of that doesn't excuse their almost complete absence of customer service towards Cointaker or individuals who just wanted parts to fix their broken machines, or that email that they sent to however many people (several people on here got it) just recently offering the chance of a "cancelled LE with green trim" if people paid up in full. That went out after the point at which they must've known the company was terminal. Who knows how many people lost money on that...

See my post above - anyone who recently paid money will have a very good case against the current Directors personally as well as against the company. "..collecting payment for goods or services that could not be delivered"

#21647 1 year ago
Quoted from AlanJ:

This is a useful article for anyone owed money by Highway Pinball
https://www.realbusinessrescue.co.uk/business-insolvency/trading-insolvent-director-responsibilities/can-directors-be-held-liable-for-company-debts-in-a-ltd-company
In particular:
Instances in Which a Director Could Be Held Liable For Company Debts:
Directors' personal liabilities for company debts can be proved if it can be shown that they performed any inappropriate actions:
Continuing to pay shareholders dividends whilst the company is insolvent
Using fraudulent methods to raise the funds needed to repay creditors (i.e. – obtaining financing using misleading or inaccurate information, or collecting payment for goods or services that could not be delivered)
Withdrawing and/or using company funds for non-business activity; this is an offence known as misfeasance
Entering into a personal guarantee and then breaching its terms
Disposing of the company's assets at undervalue or no value

Which of each of the above have:
A. Andrew done?
B. The New Ownership done?

#21648 1 year ago
Quoted from Durzel:

All of that doesn't excuse their almost complete absence of customer service towards Cointaker or individuals who just wanted parts to fix their broken machines, or that email that they sent to however many people (several people on here got it) just recently offering the chance of a "cancelled LE with green trim" if people paid up in full. That went out after the point at which they must've known the company was terminal. Who knows how many people lost money on that...

I don't know much about the latter (people do unwise things in desperate situations not of their own making), but the former stems from the cobbled together messes from earlier on, and indeed some of their own earlier models needing total refits with updated parts.

That was expensive, the cashflow problem remained, and parts still needed further revision.

Alien was completely unsustainable, and still is ... hence presumably why it's being scrapped, and why despite some calling for other manufacturers to take it on, it will never happen.

Aside from working environment, Andrew's fingers being in the till, and many of the more qualified staff leaving 6 months to longer than a year before the first single shit show machine shipped to much fanfare, he constantly interfered on technical and design issues. It probably would have taken less time and money to completely re-engineer parts of the game and electronics than to try to fix them into something reliable (still not there yet).

#21649 1 year ago
Quoted from Marv:

Daves Go Fund Me:
https://www.gofundme.com/dave-sanders-fund
Hopefully it will go past the £1000 mark and a lot further..

Thanks and donation sent.

#21650 1 year ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

I don't know much about the latter (but people do unwise things in desperate situations), but the former stems from the cobbled together messes from earlier on, and indeed some of their own earlier models needing total refits with updated parts.
That was expensive, the cashflow problem remained, and parts still needed further revision.
Alien was completely unsustainable, and still is ... hence presumably why it's being scrapped, and why despite some calling for other manufacturers to take it on, it will never happen.
Aside from working environment, Andrew's fingers being in the till, and many of the more qualified staff leaving 6 months to longer than a year before the first single shit show machine shipped to much fanfare, he constantly interfered on technical and design issues. It probably would have taken less time and money to completely re-engineer parts of the game and electronics than to try to fix them into something reliable (still not there yet).

They are the ones that got into bed with Andrew and they had to be either blind or stupid to not see many of the giant issues ahead of them. They also agreed to take over the company and get the games made. If they did not do a thorough enough review of things before moving forward with the purchase it is 100% their own fault. They also have a batch of games made that they seem to be using to fund their new company by selling to new buyers rather then fulfilling their obligation (which they knowingly took on) to the people that had already paid for their games. Andrew is a snake and the new management followed right in line behind him with lies and complete lack of communication and support.

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