(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 24,672 posts
  • 986 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by TomDK
  • Topic is favorited by 261 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

Topic Gallery

There have been 2,842 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

image (resized).jpg
DSCN6780 (resized).JPG
IMG_3414 (resized).JPG
IMG_3415 (resized).JPG
IMG_0215 (resized).JPG
7558E0DA-70D4-4AEA-8699-7E8E506CE582 (resized).jpeg
7B5B82F0-6FB6-4B76-BE21-4A56537885BD (resized).jpeg
8714E3FD-D526-496C-B18A-E775776E9AF1 (resized).jpeg
Alien Rulesheet.pdf (PDF preview)
02205183-C289-4CFF-A7A3-097DA7882E83 (resized).png
F404241E-FFAA-4989-BB1A-73FAF80696F1 (resized).jpeg
20180621_003705 (resized).jpg
13 (resized).JPG
bf871ec7-c9e4-4525-9f84-c8fc1562d683 (resized).jpg
IMG_0198 (resized).JPG
IMG_0206 (resized).JPG

Topic index (key posts)

52 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 24672 posts in this topic. You are on page 425 of 494.
#21201 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

The pinball news article seems to suggest, allegedly, that Pinball Brothers may now own, Alien licence, Queen license, Playboy license, equipment and however many games were waiting to ship.

Typical licenses-to-produce are only transferred with the permission of the real holder of the Intellectual Property.

Licenses are not an 'asset'. They are an agreement to use the protected IP, under many constraints and approvals.

Alleging that Pinball Brothers has received licenses, smells like the same deception the Predator saga perpetuated.

Is it time for someone to call the above IP holder, and find the truth?

#21202 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

You may want to reconsider your taste in subject matter experts... in playfield analysis and podcasters.

Nope, I'll read and listen everything and draw my own conclusions. But these fellas were right all along.

#21203 1 year ago

I hope it's true. If someone reliable can deliver this game with proper support you're talking runaway success

#21204 1 year ago

Wow sad news for sure, and of course on alien day, this game is cursed

#21205 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

If someone reliable can deliver this game with proper support you're talking runaway success

Not if those someone are the ones who currently own Heighway Pinball Ltd. Too much baggage from this fiasco to get going in this small and fickle industry, I suspect.

#21206 1 year ago
Quoted from scott_freeman:

Typical licenses-to-produce are only transferred with the permission of the real holder of the Intellectual Property.
Licenses are not an 'asset'. They are an agreement to use the protected IP, under many constraints and approvals.
Alleging that Pinball Brothers has received licenses, smells like the same deception the Predator saga perpetuated.
Is it time for someone to call the above IP holder, and find the truth?

Well, read full article here - no one knows for sure yet.

https://www.pinballnews.com/site/2018/04/26/heighway-pinball-faces-liquidation/

#21207 1 year ago

How long until a *certain* Predator / Heighway cheerleader shows back up and starts telling everyone to support Pinball Brothers?

#21208 1 year ago

The only way Pinball Brothers could possibly survive, would be if they as first priority made whole on all promises given to customers and other creditors by Heighway Pinball. In which case the transfer to the new company is nothing more than a name change. Which, truth be told, is not a bad idea on its own...

#21209 1 year ago
Quoted from BD_Designs:

it needs to be looked into rather than Pinside deciding that the account is fake and therefore the info must be automatically deleted.

We do look at it. When it's determined it is an anonymous drive-by account, it is deleted. Anonymous submissions are impossible to validate and don't have anyone who can be held accountable after they set off a firecracker and run. Once in a while, those posts have something interesting, but more often than not, it's just something inflammatory that someone is upset about and can't be substantiated.

In general, we don't check information for validity. We don't have the time, resources, or special magic powers in order to do that. We just enforce the forum rules to ensure the site runs (reasonably) smoothly.

Quoted from BD_Designs:

How many more people sent in money Andrew and never saw his failed business history? Everyone needs to be a responsible, informed buyer for sure, but if information is deemed relevant to the trustworthiness of a company selling their product here, then it needs to be kept available.

It's not complicated--if someone has information to bring forth, it just needs to be posted from a legitimate/established account.

Quoted from BD_Designs:

My point is that perhaps there needs to be some honest, raw negativity

There is. And quite a bit of it. The problem is that some people put blinders on and only read or remember things they agree with and ignore the rest.

#21210 1 year ago
Quoted from oyvindmo:

The only way Pinball Brothers could possibly survive, would be if they as first priority made whole on all promises given to customers and other creditors by Heighway Pinball. In which case the transfer to the new company is nothing more than a name change. Which, truth be told, is not a bad idea on its own...

The idea of going through liquidation and "selling" the assets to another company is likely a method to shed all the old debts & promises. If that's what's going on, the "new" company buying the assets has no reason to honor the debts of the "old" company. The debts stay with the "old" company and the liquidation where assets are sold is the way in which the company going under pays as much as the owed debts as possible. The "new" company simply gets the assets they paid for.

#21211 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

no reason to honor

I disagree, but the reason would not be legal obligations, but to gain enough goodwill among potential customers to actually have a chance in hell of surviving as a company.

#21212 1 year ago
Quoted from oyvindmo:

The only way Pinball Brothers could possibly survive, would be if they as first priority made whole on all promises given to customers and other creditors by Heighway Pinball. In which case the transfer to the new company is nothing more than a name change. Which, truth be told, is not a bad idea on its own...

Even if their intentions end up being honorable....if not done in an entirely ethical manor... who in their right mind would give this "new" group a single penny? What supplier would supply them anything without full payment up front?

#21213 1 year ago
Quoted from BD_Designs:

This is true and I believe that when potentially damaging info is brought forth, it needs to be looked into rather than Pinside deciding that the account is fake and therefore the info must be automatically deleted

I think what you would find is that it's not 'automatically deleted' but that when in doubt, you must err to the safe side to protect yourself. Pinside is also not a detective agency - they can't go and prove and cross reference a ton on their own... they can't force people to answer them, or threaten legal ramifications if they don't. So they are limited to what they can cross-reference publicly and from sources who are willing to cooperate. They can't spend 3 days flushing that out while the city burns around them so you have to err to 'hide it first, reopen later'.

People need to put themselves in the owner's shoes sometimes... it's real easy to play cowboy with someone else's life and resources.

#21214 1 year ago
Quoted from PoMC:

Nope, I'll read and listen everything and draw my own conclusions. But these fellas were right all along.

Someone predicted a pinball startup would fail? Holy shit, they *gotta be* clairvoyant!

Make sure he gives you stock tips too...

and greenhornet was proven to be full of it too by the game's own designer that pointed out how GH's ideas were amateur because they didn't even account for the practicalities of mechanics and where stuff goes under the PF. AKA he didn't know wtf he was talking about.

#21215 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

In general, we don't check information for validity. We don't have the time, resources, or special magic powers in order to do that. We just enforce the forum rules to ensure the site runs (reasonably) smoothly.

It's not complicated--if someone has information to bring forth, it just needs to be posted from a legitimate/established account.

There is. And quite a bit of it. The problem is that some people put blinders on and only read or remember things they agree with and ignore the rest.

I won't beat a dead horse any longer and will say that I honestly don't disagree with what you're saying. I think you guys do a fine job keeping the peace here and I have a lot of respect for all the mods. The guys I know personally are great friends that I am very glad to know.

I realize it's hard to police all of the drama that goes on here and don't expect you guys to be private investigators when it comes to looking into info brought forth about the manufacturers. But, shill accounts or not, I feel like the lesson learned is that even if it sounds like someone is trying to sink a manufacturer or slander them, don't completely write them or their info off. We have seen people with real accounts and real concerns still get burned at the stake by the sycophants only for people to later see that they were right. And when that happens, where are those cheerleaders? Oh right...certain infamous ones are nowhere to be found in this thread right now. They disappear without any repercussions just like Andrew has.

If we automatically always take the cheerleaders' or manufacturer's side as gospel, we've seen there's a good chance people are being blatantly lied to in order to keep their money in order to continue fueling bad business decisions.

#21216 1 year ago
Quoted from oyvindmo:

I disagree, but the reason would not be legal obligations, but to gain enough goodwill among potential customers to actually have a chance in hell of surviving as a company.

Right, but if they were going to do that what's the point of going through liquidation? It's nice to imagine a benevolent rich guy stepping in to cover all of Andrew's bad debts. But it seems pretty unlikely at this point.

11
#21217 1 year ago
Quoted from BD_Designs:

We have seen people with real accounts and real concerns still get burned at the stake by the sycophants only for people to later see that they were right

Had the right PREDICTIONS or right FACTS?

Don't let the revisionists distort that difference.

#21218 1 year ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Right, but if they were going to do that what's the point of going through liquidation? It's nice to imagine a benevolent rich guy stepping in to cover all of Andrew's bad debts. But it seems pretty unlikely at this point.

Because, there is not insignificant amounts of money that was put in by minority shareholders and likely various sums owed to other non essential creditors like i said earlier.

So if you could lose those and own 100% of the new company without minor shareholders having any claim, and without various other debts owed it immediately becomes a more feasible business proposition and you might be inclined to invest more money in it as the potential returns far greater. Rather than the current model of 'throwing good money after bad'.

Now i have literally no idea how someone could hypothetically have legally achieved all this, and i am less than happy about the idea of it, but viewed coldly as a business move i do completely get it in principal, hypothetically

There were definately some rather large porkies told along the way, and some very quiet / sneaky moves made behind a few relevant parties backs, that much is certain.

#21219 1 year ago

So did any paid-in-full LE buyers (Early Eggs) receive a game? Not talking about people who had deposit down and recently paid off balance to get their game. This should include anyone that paid in full for LE prior to 2018 and who received their LE. If not, then Heighway 1.5 only made and sold games to new buyers and didn't fill any old orders.

HP 1.5 promised to make original Buyers whole and then proceeded to ignore that promise completely. That leaves me wondering if that wasn't HP 1.5 's plan all along. Saying they would honor old orders, then putting them all at the end of the queue, believing they'd never make enough profit to build any of them. That buys them enough time to make and sell more Alien games, without having to explain to early buyers they were already hosed from day 1. Might partially explain why replacement parts were not forthcoming too. If they didn't care about end users maintaining a working game, then shame on them.

Doing something that twisted and lacking in morals would not permit me to support HP 2.0, should it rise from the ashes and be reorganized, since it allegedly consists of many of the same cast.

#21220 1 year ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

So did any paid-in-full LE buyers (Early Eggs) receive a game? Not talking about people who had deposit down and recently paid off balance to get their game. This should include anyone that paid in full for LE prior to 2018.

Mine was ready to ship, and I had the choice to take it, and I decided to abandon it and switch over to something else.

#21221 1 year ago

The way these boutique threads play out, it seems the way Pinside is run, it is interested in money poured into the hobby, for the good of not only itself, but the growth of the hobby as a whole.

It seems not until shit fully hits the fan, do they change the way they control these threads.

#21222 1 year ago
Quoted from BD_Designs:

If we automatically always take the cheerleaders' or manufacturer's side as gospel, we've seen there's a good chance people are being blatantly lied to in order to keep their money in order to continue fueling bad business decisions.

Speaking for myself; no cheerleader convinced me to gamble with heighway. I think everyone putting money down had an understanding there was some level of risk involved. I guess I got on board post skitb & jpop debacles... maybe confidence was stronger before. Even then, I remember unrealistic timelines when alien was announced.

#21223 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Not until shit fully hits the fan, do they change the way they control these threads.

We enforce the same rules just like in any other thread. The only things different about manufacturer threads is that they tend to be dozens of pages long, have a very large number of people participating, and have vocal groups on each side of an opinion. So, when you have two vocal groups clashing, there tends to be some drama that occasionally gets out of hand and needs attention.

#21224 1 year ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

Mine was ready to ship, and I had the choice to take it, and I decided to abandon it and switch over to something else.

I made the same choice as you, but it now sounds like there was actually no games to ship anyway. It was all BS. Thank god CT called them out and ultimately didn't send them a dime of our cash. I really don't think I could in good mind do business with any derivative of HW at this point.

#21225 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

We enforce the same rules just like in any other thread.

Take a look at the last 100 or so pages of this thread and see if there and see if there are any pinside rules that have been broken, including some by the staff itself, and then see if those same posts might have been severely moderated before shit ht the fan.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jpop-update-thread%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6mg-raza-and-aiw%E2%80%A6

#21226 1 year ago
Quoted from o-din:

Take a look at the last 100 or so pages of this thread

When threads turn into massive behemoths, it's impossible for us to review every single post. We check in when we can, but often times, we rely on members who are actively participating to report posts with potential issues.

If you notice anything, you are welcome to report it, just like anyone else.

#21228 1 year ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

I made the same choice as you, but it now sounds like there was actually no games to ship anyway. It was all BS. Thank god CT called them out and ultimately didn't send them a dime of our cash. I really don't think I could in good mind do business with any derivative of HW at this point.

I know for CT, that probably is true, but my game was made and ready to ship for sure.

19
#21229 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Had the right PREDICTIONS or right FACTS?
.

Yes, that would be me. I posted irrefutable evidence and I was villainized for it. Read the follow up to my comment in the link I'm providing and monitor the voting. And you should have seen the private messages I received.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/alien-pinball-official-game-thread/page/141#post-3301083

#21230 1 year ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

I made the same choice as you, but it now sounds like there was actually no games to ship anyway. It was all BS.

These would have been real games built and ready, why would they do that to CT when now as a separate company CT could play a very important part in whatever future buisiness is for pin bros.

If anything CT did them a favour as now its time to start 2.0... coincidence? Who knows?

But starting again with already a containers worth of pins built is probably not a bad way to have play it. They wouldn't have left them in the warehouse that's for sure!

#21231 1 year ago
Quoted from simon:

Because, there is not insignificant amounts of money that was put in by minority shareholders and likely various sums owed to other non essential creditors like i said earlier.
So if you could lose those and own 100% of the new company without minor shareholders having any claim, and without various other debts owed it immediately becomes a more feasible business proposition and you might be inclined to invest more money in it as the potential returns far greater. Rather than the current model of 'throwing good money after bad'.
Now i have literally no idea how someone could hypothetically have legally achieved all this, and i am less than happy about the idea of it, but viewed coldly as a business move i do completely get it in principal, hypothetically
There were definately some rather large porkies told along the way, and some very quiet / sneaky moves made behind a few relevant parties backs, that much is certain.

Ah, didn't see your previous post. If they can scrape a bunch of debt off yet still send games to everyone that's paid for one, that will make everyone on Pinside happy (barring the investors such as yourself that are being "scraped off," of course). While I'm not rooting for you or other creditors to be treated unfairly, it would certainly be a lucky result for the buyers here if they somehow still end up getting games. Still seems like an improbable way for this to pan out.

#21232 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Had the right PREDICTIONS or right FACTS?
Don't let the revisionists distort that difference.

Sure, it's some of both. But it goes both ways...the fanboys are equally as guilty of promoting predictions and facts as accurate information that can and has led to people being misled or distracted from what was actually going on.

All I'm saying is that maybe when someone calls bullshit on something and raises a red flag, regardless of whether it's a prediction or is blatant fact, we all just need to stop and think about it for a moment. Could it be possible? It's so easy to want to be an optimist about this stuff and only see, read, or believe what you really want to believe and not face the actual truth of what could be happening. We have seen time and again how these companies will lie right to your face to keep the train from going off the rails sooner.

#21233 1 year ago

Happy? I would not be happy. I would sell the machine at first chance, and never buy another game from any company which any of the owners are involved in, as could never trust them again. Tainted forever.

#21234 1 year ago
Quoted from take2-take5:

These would have been real games built and ready, why would they do that to CT when now as a separate company CT could play a very important part in whatever future buisiness is for pin bros.

If anything CT did them a favour as now its time to start 2.0... coincidence? Who knows?

But starting again with already a containers worth of pins built is probably not a bad way to have play it. They wouldn't have left them in the warehouse that's for sure!

I'm just going off a comment made earlier by the games designer (who was on location until the end) when asked about those games.
"The last machines I saw packed and ready to ship to the USA were for Aurich and Kelly. AFAIK, there is no container."
Maybe I misread this?

#21235 1 year ago
Quoted from oyvindmo:

Not if those someone are the ones who currently own Heighway Pinball Ltd. Too much baggage from this fiasco to get going in this small and fickle industry, I suspect.

I'd disagree with you only because I know so many people that like pinball and buy machines, but don't know shit about what goes on outside of their own game rooms, and frankly, don't care. If it's a game available through a retailer/distributor that they like they'll buy it.

#21236 1 year ago

are they totally mental....

NO FOOL IS GOING TO BUY ANYTHING FROM THE CROOKS IN THIS MESS!

and I knew there was no container!

I'd be amazed if they were able to transfer license but it's not impossible.

are we learning yet? best thing that can come out of this is not another pinhead loses another penny....

tbEpFyO (resized).png

#21237 1 year ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

I'd disagree with you only because I know so many people that like pinball and buy machines, but don't know shit about what goes on outside of their own game rooms, and frankly, don't care. If it's a game available through a retailer/distributor that they like they'll buy it.

This is my concern. Especially having been caught up in the JPOP fiasco, I don't wish ill on any undeserving buyers. That said, I hope all the asshole owner/investor people involved in Heighway crash and burn! The thought that they could circumvent and come out the other side as "Pinball Brothers" and potentially still be successful makes me sick! I hope all these lying bastards take it up the ass like they deserve! As much as I used to want both Alien and Full Throttle, I just wish they would go away and we could all close this chapter in pinball history.

If you're a pre-order and have some means of getting a game out of this mess, by all means take it. For anyone else that would consider supporting these crooks in ANY capacity going forward...shame on you.

#21238 1 year ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

I'm just going off a comment made earlier by the games designer, who was on location until the end, when asked about those games.
"The last machines I saw packed and ready to ship to the USA were for Aurich and Kelly. AFAIK, there is no container."
Maybe I misread this?

No your correct, that's the last games he saw. I may have heard differently from someone else. Just think it also wouldn't make sense for them to go as far as trying to sell a full container worth of imaginary pins to CT, when these guys potentially have plans to continue with alien in the future.

#21239 1 year ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Ah, didn't see your previous post. If they can scrape a bunch of debt off yet still send games to everyone that's paid for one, that will make everyone on Pinside happy (barring the investors such as yourself that are being "scraped off," of course). While I'm not rooting for you or other creditors to be treated unfairly, it would certainly be a lucky result for the buyers here if they somehow still end up getting games. Still seems like an improbable way for this to pan out.

That's fair enough and I actually agree. I've written this money off as a bad investment, it's just the risk I took, and while I am less than happy about how it's gone down I'd like more than anything to see people who paid actually get their games now as they should not have had that risk, they just simply paid for a product which they should therefore receive .

-2
#21240 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Yes, that would be me. I posted irrefutable evidence and I was villainized for it. Read the follow up to my comment in the link I'm providing and monitor the voting. You should have seen the private messages I received.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/alien-pinball-official-game-thread/page/141#post-3301083

If I recall... that situation included a ton of extrapolations and interpretations that were all over the place that went well beyond the citation provided. There is plenty of solid info in there, unfortunately muddied by tons of extrapolation.

I thought it was great info - but many used it horribly.

#21241 1 year ago

Sorry Flynn but, lol !

#21242 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Yes, that would be me. I posted irrefutable evidence and I was villainized for it. Read the follow up to my comment in the link I'm providing and monitor the voting. You should have seen the private messages I received.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/alien-pinball-official-game-thread/page/141#post-3301083

I think this supports Forceflow's assertion that factual information from a known pinsider is allowed (regardless of negativivity), since you weren't moderated and your post wasn't deleted.

I appreciated your post back then. I had a deposit down and it was a piece of real information to consider versus all the speculation.

Quoted from BD_Designs:

All I'm saying is that maybe when someone calls bullshit on something and raises a red flag, regardless of whether it's a prediction or is blatant fact, we all just need to stop and think about it for a moment. Could it be possible?

I agree, we should. However, from a forum perspective, if Pinside allows shill accounts to slander a company the potential negative impact is much greater (ie. the company folding) versus Pinside not restraining fanboyism where maybe someone is influenced to pre-order a machine.

With hindsight it's easy to determine what was or wasn't real. In my opinion it's up to each of us to wade through all the information, speculation, opinions, etc.. , and make up our own minds. Caveat Emptor.

#21243 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I posted irrefutable evidence and I was villainized for it.

That took some serious balls on a feel good forum like this one.

#21244 1 year ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Where's whysnow?

Sounds like he sold his Alien (I think he got a replacement from Heighway a few months back?) so maybe he's less invested in the thread these days.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-alien-4#post-4363429

#21245 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Yes, that would be me. I posted irrefutable evidence and I was villainized for it. Read the follow up to my comment in the link I'm providing and monitor the voting. You should have seen the private messages I received.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/alien-pinball-official-game-thread/page/141#post-3301083

The "beauty" of Andrew's scam was the NDA nearly everyone approaching Heighway Pinball had to sign... JPop's style.
Those in the know would not speak (*); the others were left with rumors or hearsay. Only a few posts like yours pointed to indisputable (yet disputed or downvoted) evidence.

(*) Andrew was monitoring these threads - and not only on pinside - very closely.

Quoted from Jvspin:

I think this supports Forceflow's assertion that factual information from a known pinsider is allowed, since you weren't moderated and your post wasn't deleted.

Exactly.

#21246 1 year ago
Quoted from jlm33:

The "beauty" of Andrew's scam was the NDA nearly everyone approaching Heighway Pinball had to sign... JPop's style.
Those in the know would not speak (*); the others were left with rumors or hearsay. Only a few posts like yours pointed to indisputable (yet disputed or downvoted) evidence.
(*) Andrew was monitoring these threads - and not only on pinside - very closely.

He was quick to threaten people with lawyers too, saw him do it in person. Was he full of shit? I dunno, who the hell wants to risk dealing with that over a forum post? I've seen frivolous lawsuits, that get dropped later, and in the meantime are a nightmare to deal with. F that.

#21247 1 year ago
Quoted from jlm33:

(*) Andrew was monitoring these threads - and not only on pinside - very closely.

Reliable IMO but secondhand information, I'm told he still monitors this thread even recently. And his Pinside account appears to be active.
https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/andrewh

#21248 1 year ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

However, from a forum perspective, if Pinside allows shill accounts to slander a company the potential negative impact is much greater (ie. the company folding) versus Pinside not restraining fanboyism where maybe someone is influenced to pre-order a machine.

If a company folds due to people making snide or slanderous remarks on here, than they obviously have way more problematic issues to deal with and would collapse because of that...not some harsh words thrown at them.

Had this been the first time it happened, then I would not have ever chimed in, but this is a cyclical problem we have seen 3 times now and could certainly happen again... The rabid, bandwagon-jumping fanboyism is a problem and makes it even easier for these con men to hide behind their lies if everyone is led to believe all is fine.

It truly sucks and I am quite sure some of the employees would have gladly spoken up about the problems they were seeing had Andrew not been such a sleazebag and threatened his own people with lawsuits.

#21249 1 year ago
Quoted from BD_Designs:

It truly sucks and I am quite sure some of the employees would have gladly spoken up about the problems they were seeing had Andrew not been such a sleazebag and threatened his own people with lawsuits.

Some employees were spoken to. Chris spoke to one. I tried to do as much homework as possible. All the warning signs were published here including employees leaving because they were not paid, changing factories because they weren't being paid, vendors not being paid, Dennis not being paid, etc.
When these things were mentioned, people were jumped on.

#21250 1 year ago

Yeah I recall some of them coming forward with cryptic information. Like you said, the signs have been there for a while.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 12.00
$ 750.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
There are 24672 posts in this topic. You are on page 425 of 494.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside