(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

5 years ago



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  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

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#21151 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

I suppose someone can buy the IP and stock and parts and whatever else for pennies on the dollar, and then try to ramp up producing machines again.
There IS a finished game that exists (2 actually, and maybe others). This isn't a jpop diorama of a non-functioning game. People who have "working" Aliens really enjoy them. So... who knows.

Thats what the last guys thought too...

#21152 1 year ago

how sad is this that it happened on "alien day" as well? hats off to the people that created the game. they did a nice job. it's just a shame that [andrew] heighway went and screwed things up so much that it came to this

#21153 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Thats what the last guys thought too...

Except they also took on all of Heighway's debt - perhaps more than they knew...

#21154 1 year ago
Quoted from simon:

But, completely hypothetically of course, what if those new directors sold the ip / Heighway tech to another company, say for instance if they maybe already had one set up ready since say, hypothetically again, last summer?
And then , hypothetically, liquidated the company to lose minor investors and other 'less critical' creditors who werent key to restarting the whole process again - those sort or creditors would be unlikely to be customers as without some goodwill there is no future business.
All completely hypothetical of course and completely my own unfounded opinion in case anyone decides to be silly and go legal for no good reason

I see what you did there. Hypothetically of course.

#21155 1 year ago

Pinball brothers is the company name stamped on the boards in the game....

#21156 1 year ago

Is it possible to find out where Slyway bought boards and parts and just buy from them?

#21157 1 year ago

Regardless of how it pans out, based on the current investors behaviour (I'm thinking primarily of that "someone elses's LE is waiting for you to buy! all you need to do is send us all the money" emails, and complete absence of customer service) I can't see customers being made whole, particularly ones circa Heighway 1.0.

What would they hope to achieve in setting up under a different name anyway? I mean, it might enable them to carry on trading, shedding their liabilities, but it's not like pinball machines are big business. Their association with Heighway would follow them around.

That said - I hope something positive happens with the parts and any built machines, rather than them just getting auctioned off.

#21158 1 year ago
Quoted from Ilushka85:

Pinball brothers is the company name stamped on the boards in the game....

The same people who established Pinball Brothers were also directors of Heighway Pinball ? Is it just me, or is this business arrangement slightly suspect ? Sitting on both sides of the table, they would have been in a position to move funds from HP to PB by ordering components from themselves.

I guess it's only reasonable to believe that representatives of PB will appear at the meeting of creditors on may 4...

#21159 1 year ago

Jesus, how many Hydrofoil companies are going to come out of this?

#21160 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

And over in the Alice Cooper thread someone was just moderated for suggesting the game might have issues (which I assure you it does).

Care to share the issues, benheck ?

16
#21162 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

I agree the "Pinside Defense Force" needs to stop. People should be allowed to be negative. It's like those signs in the subway "If you see something, say something"
I was chastised by a moderator for dumping on Skit B back in the day, guess who was right? And over in the Alice Cooper thread someone was just moderated for suggesting the game might have issues (which I assure you it does).
Why it is only acceptable to bash Stern, the company most likely to get you a game on time and not steal your money?

Where there's smoke there's fire. It's a well known saying and speaks volumes. I've had to stay silent, but I've seen people being slammed for speaking the truth and trying to warn others on this site. Some have been banned. That's a sad state of affairs.

#21163 1 year ago

Not knowing a lot of the details, can we just start calling this group "Los Pinball Hermanos" at this point?

#21165 1 year ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

Some have been banned. That's a sad state of affairs.

Excuse me but what are you talking about? I admit I have not followed the 250 pages of this discussion and I am surprised to read that.

15
#21166 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

And over in the Alice Cooper thread someone was just moderated for suggesting the game might have issues (which I assure you it does).

The post you're referring to was made by someone who has a history of trolling manufacturer threads pretty hard.

Quoted from BD_Designs:

I know this is sort of meant to be a joke, but I have to admit that this perspective of not calling a spade a spade or raising red flags here on Pinside is utter bullshit. At this point, Andrew Heighway deserves to be called out as the lying piece of shit con artist that he is without a lick of moderation...and he deserved to be called that years ago. Yet Pinside protected him...

We don't protect manufacturers from criticism. We don't moderate opinions. Heck, I've thrown in my two cents at times.

What we do moderate are personal attacks and name calling.

What we also moderate are anonymous drive-by shill accounts. If someone has information or comments to share, it should be done from an established/legitimate account where someone can be held accountable for what they say, and not just posted with a throwaway account then run away.

There have been several instances where these drive-by throwaway accounts have been used to spread false information, stir the pot, and cause drama. So, it is general policy not to allow accounts like this--whether they are posting legitimate information or not. We simply have no way to verify it or hold anyone accountable for it.

As for Heighway specifically, I posted my opinion while back when the new investors were taking over the company:

Quoted from ForceFlow:

Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

Obviously, anyone who pre-orders, especially from an unproven company, is taking a gamble and rolling the dice. And any company that uses customer's preorder money for business expenses rather than for the purchase of parts for the actual games is making a foolish move that will burn them later.

If you aren't comfortable with the possibility of losing your money, then don't preorder. I'm amazed at the number of people who keep making the same mistake.

If you want out of Aliens, here's your second chance--just keep in mind you probably won't get a third. You are luckier than most, considering all the people with JPop and Skit-B preorders lost everything, and DP isn't looking so hot now either.

As for the group of investors, I really hope they are able to turn things around. I would like to see some success stories in botique pinball for a change. Obviously, they are going to be prepared for a certain number of people who want out. If/when Aliens games start rolling off the production line and make it to distributors, then get one (but if the price is higher at that time, then so be it).

#21167 1 year ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I knew they should have put her in charge.

Boutiques mostly fail and take people's money.

Mostly.

#21168 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Quoted from benheck:
And over in the Alice Cooper thread someone was just moderated for suggesting the game might have issues (which I assure you it does).

The post you're referring to was made by someone who has a history of trolling manufacturer threads pretty hard.

Trolling? Commenting on how a game plays, potential flaws and issues is trolling? That GreenHornet guy seems to have made a lot of sense and was correct about quite a few things if you re-read his past posts. I've found his comments interesting whether I agreed or not.

-6
#21169 1 year ago
Quoted from PoMC:

Trolling? Commenting on how a game plays, potential flaws and issues is trolling? That GreenHornet guy seems to have made a lot of sense and was correct about quite a few things if you re-read his past posts. I've found his comments interesting whether I agreed or not.

That wasn't the kind of post he was moderated for.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/spooky-pinball-3rd-game-500-units/page/52#post-4349549

#21170 1 year ago

Did engineering/documentation ever produce a manual for Full Throttle or Alien? I'm sure someone had to have documentation to work on. This would be critical to the FT and Aliens owners that have a game.

#21171 1 year ago
Quoted from simon:

But, completely hypothetically of course, what if those new directors sold the ip / Heighway tech to another company, say for instance if they maybe already had one set up ready since say, hypothetically again, last summer?
And then , hypothetically, liquidated the company to lose minor investors and other 'less critical' creditors who werent key to restarting the whole process again - those sort or creditors would be unlikely to be customers as without some goodwill there is no future business.
All completely hypothetical of course and completely my own unfounded opinion in case anyone decides to be silly and go legal for no good reason

The pinball news article seems to suggest, allegedly, that Pinball Brothers may now own, Alien licence, Queen license, Playboy license, equipment and however many games were waiting to ship.

There will be zero left for creditors of HP.

#21172 1 year ago

Sad!

#21173 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

The pinball news article seems to suggest, allegedly, that Pinball Brothers may now own, Alien licence, Queen license, Playboy license, equipment and however many games were waiting to ship.
There will be zero left for creditors of HP.

Nice of them to inform the other shareholders / creditors whilst allegedly emptying the HP warehouse.

#21174 1 year ago

Guys like msch got absolutely slammed by apologists for suggesting that this project was never going to get off the ground. All the signs pointing to failure were there. Pinside REALLY needs to clean up it white knight problem. Yeah, trolls are a pain in the butt and you want to tell them to get lost, but the white knighting is often a much bigger problem.

Way too much of this...

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#21175 1 year ago

Can someone in the know finally tell us what the third pin was going to be? Was it Queen? Any pics or anything of what it might have looked like?

#21176 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

The pinball news article seems to suggest, allegedly, that Pinball Brothers may now own, Alien licence, Queen license, Playboy license, equipment and however many games were waiting to ship.

although sounds like conjecture, is it possible they transferred/sold the assets to themselves so they could start over and screw over those with deposits, paid in full, contractors, vendors etc.?

I would like to think it would be illegal to do that right before liquidation or did they transfer that months ago in anticipation of this? Which would be equally bad in my eyes, but maybe not under the law.

I would think that all those assets should be handled via liquidation to try to get the most return for creditors.

Obviously we don't have all the info, but something does not smell right. I guess we may know more after the fourth.

If it is true, and they turn around and these same guys try to make these machines under this new company, while hosing vendors, contractorss, pre-pay buyers, then there is no way in heck I would buy from them.

#21177 1 year ago
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:

Thanks. We had a great team, we all tried our best to make this work but when the money pot runs dry.....it's hopeless.
Farewell to the Heighway Pinball team:

Don't recognize anybody in pic, can you kindly provide names and maybe someone else can label them on pic? I am guessing none of the investors are shown, although they were involved.

#21178 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

The post you're referring to was made by someone who has a history of trolling manufacturer threads pretty hard.

We don't protect manufacturers from criticism. We don't moderate opinions. Heck, I've thrown in my two cents at times.
What we do moderate are personal attacks and name calling.
What we also moderate are anonymous drive-by shill accounts. If someone has information or comments to share, it should be done from an established/legitimate account where someone can be held accountable for what they say, and not just posted with a throwaway account then run away.
There have been several instances where these drive-by throwaway accounts have been used to spread false information, stir the pot, and cause drama. So, it is general policy not to allow accounts like this--whether they are posting legitimate information or not. We simply have no way to verify it or hold anyone accountable for it.

While I completely agree that fake accounts should not be tolerated, under certain circumstances like the ones that have transpired over the years with this saga, regardless of where the information came from - shill account or not - the information about Andrew which turned out to be very revealing and foreshadowing of what has happened was still swept under the rug and more or less erased.

I understand that name calling could get out of hand if not moderated, but on the other end of the spectrum, people relentlessly shilling for a company in a positive light (when they are not fully informed of the real situation) can be just as harmful because it makes everything sound like there are no issues at hand. Andrew absolutely deserved to be called out in the harshest of manners and that didn't start happening until much later on.

My point is just that the manufacturers need to be kept in check, held accountable, and communicate with people if they are going to use Pinside as a platform to beg for money in order to keep their business afloat. When companies start completely ignoring their customers, they deserve to be called names until they hopefully wake up to the turmoil they're causing.

#21179 1 year ago
Quoted from spoke:

although sounds like conjecture, is it possible they transferred/sold the assets to themselves so they could start over and screw over those with deposits, paid in full, contractors, vendors etc.?
I would like to think it would be illegal to do that right before liquidation or did they transfer that months ago in anticipation of this? Which would be equally bad in my eyes, but maybe not under the law.
I would think that all those assets should be handled via liquidation to try to get the most return for creditors.
Obviously we don't have all the info, but something does not smell right. I guess we may know more after the fourth.
If it is true, and they turn around and these same guys try to make these machines under this new company, while hosing vendors, contractorss, pre-pay buyers, then there is no way in heck I would buy from them.

Pinball Brothers Limited incorporated June 16 2017.

#21180 1 year ago
Quoted from spoke:

although sounds like conjecture, is it possible they transferred/sold the assets to themselves so they could start over and screw over those with deposits, paid in full, contractors, vendors etc.?
I would like to think it would be illegal to do that right before liquidation or did they transfer that months ago in anticipation of this? Which would be equally bad in my eyes, but maybe not under the law.
I would think that all those assets should be handled via liquidation to try to get the most return for creditors.
Obviously we don't have all the info, but something does not smell right. I guess we may know more after the fourth.
If it is true, and they turn around and these same guys try to make these machines under this new company, while hosing vendors, contractorss, pre-pay buyers, then there is no way in heck I would buy from them.

I just spoke to the appointed insolvency firm. Basically the 4th May meeting is just to appoint a liquidator as they already have enough of a casting vote (The 90% roughly owned by the directors now is plenty) for this to go ahead - its just a matter of selecting one and thats probably going to be this firm i just spoke to.

Allegedly i have separately been told the old warehouse is pretty much bare and manufacture is already started somewhere else, not sure how they got the licenses out as i was told ages ago that would not happen, but it appears it might have.

Im lost for words, what a spiteful nasty stroke this is appearing to be on the surface. I still believe these guys went in with fairly good intentions (Have spoke personally to them previously obviously and got along just fine) and on that basis maybe they make the customers whole at some point.

But the way its been gone about literally disgusts me

#21181 1 year ago

Wait....so theyre still making aliens for sale?

#21182 1 year ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Wait....so theyre still making aliens for sale?

seems that may be the case, yes

10
#21183 1 year ago

SO if you dig around a bit further... you will see they made the company Pinball brothers... all new boards including the one in my game are not stamped heighway but stamped Pinball brothers....

You will also find the domain pinball brothers .com is associated with

Registrant Name: Alexander Spohr
Registrant Organization: Xytanics GmbH

Or German Pinball Design.... of which Alexander Spohr is ceo...

He was also a board member till march of 2018 of heighway...

I am pretty sure these guys put in enough money into heighway to keep the lights on for a bit while transfering / selling assets etc and now you will see "Heighway 2.0" be reborn.

What we saw prior to this was Heighway 1.0 and Heighway 1.5

#21184 1 year ago
Quoted from BD_Designs:

but on the other end of the spectrum, people relentlessly shilling for a company in a positive light (when they are not fully informed of the real situation) can be just as harmful because it makes everything sound like there are no issues at hand.

I agree, that can be a problem, especially when people use that information to gauge whether or not it's "safe" to do a preorder. Usually the only time we moderate is when it gets to the point where a poster becomes a broken record. Other than that, we don't have a rule in place for "white knighting" for fanboyism.

#21185 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

The post you're referring to was made by someone who has a history of trolling manufacturer threads pretty hard.

We don't protect manufacturers from criticism. We don't moderate opinions. Heck, I've thrown in my two cents at times.
What we do moderate are personal attacks and name calling.

I was gonna say... with all these claims about scrubbing and moderating negativity... I didn't get that impression. Maybe consider it was the delivery... not the 'anti-company' message that was being moderated.

#21186 1 year ago
Quoted from simon:

I just spoke to the appointed insolvency firm. Basically the 4th May meeting is just to appoint a liquidator as they already have enough of a casting vote (The 90% roughly owned by the directors now is plenty) for this to go ahead - its just a matter of selecting one and thats probably going to be this firm i just spoke to.
Allegedly i have separately been told the old warehouse is pretty much bare and manufacture is already started somewhere else, not sure how they got the licenses out as i was told ages ago that would not happen, but it appears it might have.
Im lost for words, what a spiteful nasty stroke this is appearing to be on the surface. I still believe these guys went in with fairly good intentions (Have spoke personally to them previously obviously and got along just fine) and on that basis maybe they make the customers whole at some point.
But the way its been gone about literally disgusts me

The stuff that happens in start up pinball companies beggars belief.

Pinball Brothers incorporated June 2017 so seems like transfer of assets could have happened anytime since this time, allegedly.

#21187 1 year ago
Quoted from PoMC:

Trolling? Commenting on how a game plays, potential flaws and issues is trolling? That GreenHornet guy seems to have made a lot of sense and was correct about quite a few things if you re-read his past posts. I've found his comments interesting whether I agreed or not.

You may want to reconsider your taste in subject matter experts... in playfield analysis and podcasters.

#21188 1 year ago
Quoted from Ilushka85:

I am pretty sure these guys put in enough money into heighway to keep the lights on for a bit while transfering / selling assets etc and now you will see "Heighway 2.0" be reborn.
What we saw prior to this was Heighway 1.0 and Heighway 1.5

I find it hard to believe that the transfer of assets is legal, given that the directors has privileged insight into the financial situation of the company. Even if HW has no remaining assets, the board of directors are personally liable for the decisions made.

(https://united-kingdom.taylorwessing.com/synapse/duties_personal_liabilities.html)

If they get away with this without any legal repercussions, I wish them the best of luck attempting to establish any form of online presence for Pinball Brothers.

#21189 1 year ago
Quoted from hansj66:

I find it hard to believe that the transfer of assets is legal, given that the directors has privileged insight into the financial situation of the company. Even if HW has no remaining assets, the board of directors are personally liable for the decisions made.
(https://united-kingdom.taylorwessing.com/synapse/duties_personal_liabilities.html)
If they get away with this without any legal repercussions, I wish them the best of luck attempting to establish any form of online presence for Pinball Brothers.

Are they liable when they don't live in the UK?

#21190 1 year ago
Quoted from jar155:

Guys like msch got absolutely slammed by apologists for suggesting that this project was never going to get off the ground. All the signs pointing to failure were there. Pinside REALLY needs to clean up it white knight problem. Yeah, trolls are a pain in the butt and you want to tell them to get lost, but the white knighting is often a much bigger problem.
Way too much of this...

Maybe because he spouted his beliefs as facts... with posts like this

Quoted from Msch:

This isn't a build to order company, they're broke and selling off everything they can. This company has failed to produce the alien pin beyond prototypes, and will not ship another pinball machine in the future

Not believing a company can make it and voicing that opinion is entirely different from making wild statements that are based on nothing, yet you spout them as something that has already happened.

People who simply said HWP won't succeed... or Alien will fail... were not people tipping others off and being moderated. They were sharing their opinion on the future.... and largely without any details except what everyone knew as public knowledge.

Predicting failure of startups does not make anyone a prophet.

#21191 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Are they liable when they don't live in the UK?

Not being a legal expert, I have no idea, but it would be a bit strange if it was possible to establish a company in the UK and being able to circumvent the law, simply by being a foreign resident ?

#21192 1 year ago
Quoted from spoke:

I would like to think it would be illegal to do that right before liquidation or did they transfer that months ago in anticipation of this? Which would be equally bad in my eyes, but maybe not under the law.

In the US it is.. you can't transfer assets like that when you are known to be insolvent. I expect there is some parallel in British law as well... for the same reasons you outline. You can't gut the ship on the way out..

#21193 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I was gonna say... with all these claims about scrubbing and moderating negativity... I didn't get that impression. Maybe consider it was the delivery... not the 'anti-company' message that was being moderated.

That's pretty much what usually happens; especially when someone gets worked up or a conversation gets heated.

#21194 1 year ago

I do not think they transferred assets now... I think they did it before... Im sure the way the "new" investors structured this deal last time is they buy assets.... and hold them and own all ip. In exchange they gave heighway money to operate.

Well heighway burned thru that money and the group of investors probably own all ip. Nothing really illegal here as they likely sold to keep doors open and got a license back for usage.

#21195 1 year ago

Ultimately there are only *so many* billionaire pinball-loving sugar daddies to go around. HP drew the short straw so they die while DP lives (they allegedly have new money)

#21196 1 year ago
Quoted from benheck:

Ultimately there are only *so many* billionaire pinball-loving sugar daddies to go around. HP drew the short straw so they die while DP lives (they allegedly have new money)

Speaking which, I know I trashed the whole "it's a no-brainer for another company to produce Alien" idea, but how about the Deeproot gang?

Seems right up their alley!

Interesting about DP. I have a friend - an eternal optimist - who had this to say.

"Yeah I'm out a used Buick on Alien, but I'm hearing good things about DP! What can I say I'm a gambler."

#21197 1 year ago
Quoted from BD_Designs:

While I completely agree that fake accounts should not be tolerated, under certain circumstances like the ones that have transpired over the years with this saga, regardless of where the information came from - shill account or not - the information about Andrew which turned out to be very revealing and foreshadowing of what has happened was still swept under the rug and more or less erased.

Unfortunately... the bigger the impact, the more scrutinous you must be. If you don't, people abuse it because they know they can achieve their goal and get away with it. And either way, it creates huge liabilities for the site.

If someone wants to 'leak' info... there are plenty of ways to do it. But you can't let 'hit and run' content that can't be substantiated be the norm... because for every 'legit' one, you'll likely have 10x more that are more harm than good.

Imagine how easy it would be to smear an individual or other pinsider with a hit and run attack with with a simple post claiming serious, undesirable behavior without needing to back any of it up if no such scrutiny or forced focus existed.

#21198 1 year ago
Quoted from Tim_may:

Pinball Brothers Limited incorporated June 16 2017.

June 2017 is also when the 'new investors' took over. This was probably a legal entity setup as part of the initial take-over of HWP... not necessarily a start of divesting the company.

If the goal was to gut the company of assets, it would have been a lot simplier and cheaper to do that 11 months ago, rather than run the company for 10+months on their backs.

Edit: ilushka85 's theory is an interesting one... if there was an exchange of IP out of the company as part of the buyout with provisions for licensing back, etc. But I have to imagine that would still be under heavy scrutiny depending on the financials of the company at the time.. especially if it were under valued.

#21199 1 year ago
Quoted from Ilushka85:

I do not think they transferred assets now... I think they did it before... Im sure the way the "new" investors structured this deal last time is they buy assets.... and hold them and own all ip. In exchange they gave heighway money to operate.
Well heighway burned thru that money and the group of investors probably own all ip. Nothing really illegal here as they likely sold to keep doors open and got a license back for usage.

Even if it the transfer of assets was made early on, they kept on making promises to customers regarding production and shipment of games. Promises they knew they most likely wouldn't be able to keep.

If it they haven't committed a crime, there is absolutely no question about their behaviour being highly unethical during these last months.

We know their names and there is no way, that I will ever buy anything ever from a company that these "investors" choose to involve themselvse with in the future. I wish Pinball Brothers the best of luck in their future ventures. They sure are going to need it.

#21200 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Unfortunately... the bigger the impact, the more scrutinous you must be. If you don't, people abuse it because they know they can achieve their goal and get away with it. And either way, it creates huge liabilities for the site.
If someone wants to 'leak' info... there are plenty of ways to do it. But you can't let 'hit and run' content that can't be substantiated be the norm... because for every 'legit' one, you'll likely have 10x more that are more harm than good.
Imagine how easy it would be to smear an individual or other pinsider with a hit and run attack with with a simple post claiming serious, undesirable behavior without needing to back any of it up if no such scrutiny or forced focus existed.

This is true and I believe that when potentially damaging info is brought forth, it needs to be looked into rather than Pinside deciding that the account is fake and therefore the info must be automatically deleted. How many more people sent in money to Andrew and never saw his failed business history? Everyone needs to be a responsible, informed buyer for sure, but if information is deemed relevant to the trustworthiness of a company selling their product here, then it needs to be kept available.

The people who are positively shilling a product with completely unsubstantiated information are indeed getting away with it and causing just as much damage as someone that says something slanderous. My point is that perhaps there needs to be some honest, raw negativity so the unrelenting positive claims from some people are not so overwhelming and misleading of the real problems.

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