ALIEN PINBALL - Official Game Thread


By HeighwayPinball

3 years ago


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15
#20051 6 days ago

some commentary about the recent delivery.

I've played the earlier versions of the game plenty at Allentown and other shows over the years.

The game we unboxed yesterday right out of the box sure felt a ton better than all my earlier games.

The game needed some tweaks to be perfect... but not the kind of stuff that kept us from playing.

- The box had gotten beat to hell... shipping company had not been gentle... but the game escaped major issues
- One beacon dome had gotten smashed inside the box. I attest that to how they pack it and the 'extra bumps' the game clearly had gotten. It still works, just the dome needs replacing
- There ARE unpacking instructions.. we just found them after we were done
- The game came with all the hardware you'd expect... a few key fobs too
- The game comes with like 4-5 keys. The head has two pop-out locks that were not keyed together, and then the coin door is its own lock too. Would like this where the locks were unified
- The pop-out locks on the head were a bit fickle and I don't really see these as 'improvements' even tho they are fancier locks. I'd prefer a locking assembly with standard barrel locks
- The head had a plate with pins to help align it, and is mounted with 3 machine screws at the back, and two thumb screws through the base of the head. Seemed stable enough
- The head attached easily - it is managable by one person.. but heavy enough you need to pay attention (this is with the LCD in the head)
- I'm not a fan of the MDF cabinet material - give me real plywood
- The game had ample packing protections... including things like the coin box and playfield being zip tied down to keep them in place
- This game had the lit side panels (which look great!) but they are pretty simple in implementation. Just standard led strips laid in the bottom of the slot and along the top. The top strip had pulled down a bit and needed to be reset to be setup properly and not cause shadows on the side panels. easy fix by removing side panel and just pressing strip back into place
- The pop bumper switches need some adjustment to get triggering well
- The game shipped with latest code and all the latest hardware and PF mechs
- The game was wired for extra switches that do not come standard and the coin door switches were not plugged in. Just things to be aware of when you say 'what are all these extra plugs?' - But it didn't have any issues with the start button/etc like earlier games did
- The power plug is extra goofy tho. This is an area I think they cheaped out. The power switch for the game is almost in the standard spot under the cabinet... but the power socket is right there as well in the same assembly. That means your power plug is connected at the bottom of the cabinet.. middle of the game. This has a few problems... one.. the plug stands to pull out easier.. two.. the plug must be removed to put a lift cart under the game.. three.. the power plug is now dangling UNDER your cabinet vs behind the game like usual.

This game has the lit inside side panels and backboard. Very nice! The lit cabinet side panels are very cool too (even if built kind of cheap). I would think mod'ers could do that easily.

We set the game up, and jumped right into playing - no tweaks done at all before we were able to play.

The game plays a lot smoother than the examples I played previously. The airlock was easier to hit, and was able to backhand from left flipper with purpose.. We were hitting ramps and combos on the fly and with purpose. It felt great!

We were in a almost completely dark room.. and in that environment... the lower third of the game is pretty damn dark. The first two balls... I was like... uhh.. wow. But I must have adjusted some after a few balls. I think those that play in a completely dark room will likely be looking to supplement the lighting. I think if you have some ambient light, you'll probably be ok stock.

The beacons are pretty damn cool I would think these would be a MUST for any game where you will have an environment where the game can shine. In a dark room and those things start going off... it's a 'cherry on top' moment for the game.

Everything about the game just felt a ton better than the previous times I've played the game... both on the prototype and on the game that would make the show rounds. We had some airballs that were interesting... but I attest that to a brand new game that needs some breaking in. The pop bumper switchs would need adjustment, but we didn't bother and that could be taken care of later.

I think most buyers would be perfectly happy with the unboxing experience we had last night. And I think buyers will have a great time exploring this game!

#20052 6 days ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

Just spoke with cointaker yesterday.
Next shipment container coming in by end of this month. 45 LE models as well as warranty parts and plastics, facehuggers etc...

Id like to see the shipping manifest or tracking in this case as it should be, if not already, pretty close to being on the water in order to confirm this statement made by cointaker of approx 2 weeks out from them.

#20053 6 days ago
Quoted from robotron:

old money is probably screwed (i am in that boat)

Wow 45 LEs and not one for old money/people who have been in for years? Ouch

#20054 6 days ago
Quoted from Pale_Purple:

Wow 45 LEs and not one for old money/people who have been in for years? Ouch

Yeah, that WOULD suck if it happens (doubtful). No way that would happen with this crowd though. I am usually the one whos calling out to "bust out the pitchforks" when it comes to cointaker, but in this case I dont think they'd stoop THAT low and bad where out of 45 LE's not 1 would go to preorders lol. I am sure all 45 of those (if there really is 45 LE's being shipped lol) are spoken for with MAYBE..MAYBE 1 or 2 being available for new orders from people who've cancelled.

#20055 6 days ago
Quoted from Nethawk86:

Yeah, that WOULD suck if it happens (doubtful). No way that would happen with this crowd though. I am usually the one whos calling out to "bust out the pitchforks" when it comes to cointaker, but in this case I dont think they'd stoop THAT low and bad where out of 45 LE's not 1 would go to preorders lol. I am sure all 45 of those (if there really is 45 LE's being shipped lol) are spoken for with MAYBE..MAYBE 1 or 2 being available for new orders from people who've cancelled.

Sadly I expect that all of these LEs are new orders/money. I am a fully paid preorderer and I have not been contacted. Has anyone on here that fully paid been contacted about their LE preorder?

-2
#20056 5 days ago

Old money is gone.

I know it's a bitter pill to swallow but your old money has gone on the previous owner's boat(s), or an extension to his house. The reality is that you need to hope that Heighway makes enough profit from selling these pins to new money to be able to honour your orders, which are basically write-offs for them.

The new owners even said that they came in facing an empty bank account.

#20057 5 days ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Old money is gone.
I know it's a bitter pill to swallow but your old money has gone on the previous owner's boat(s), or an extension to his house. The reality is that you need to hope that Heighway makes enough profit from selling these pins to new money to be able to honour your orders, which are basically write-offs for them.
The new owners even said that they came in facing an empty bank account.

With all due respect, how do you know this? Given LEs are limited, how would this be possible... given LEs are limited in number? Many people with money in already have numbers reserved. Say that they sell all 500 LEs to alone new money, when they have enough profit to cover the new money order, what numbers would go to the previous people with money in?

Are you suggesting that they are selling people’s specific LE’s numbers to other people? I’d think either the LE number would to the person for whom it’s reserved or it doesn’t get made. At the very worst, only non reserved LEs should go to new money.

#20058 5 days ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

With all due respect, how do you know this? Given LEs are limited, how would this be possible... given LEs are limited in number? Many people with money in already have numbers reserved. Say that they sell all 500 LEs to alone new money, when they have enough profit to cover the new money order, what numbers would go to the previous people with money in?
Are you suggesting that they are selling people’s specific LE’s numbers to other people? I’d think either the LE number would to the person for whom it’s reserved or it doesn’t get made. At the very worst, only non reserved LEs should go to new money.

I obviously don't know for sure, but the new owners said that when they came in there was "an empty bank account, many refund requests, paid for and deposit down orders, supplier and other bills and hardly any parts at the factory with which to make machines". Their words, not mine.

Logic dictates therefore that the money that came in early was withdrawn from the company by the previous owner, and hasn't gone towards parts, etc needed to actually assemble & deliver the machines that they were meant to pay for.

Did early (any?) LE preorders get given a number for their machine when they ordered? How can anyone outside of Heighway know when 500 units have been manufactured? For all anyone knows the early preorders made up 100 of these units, and Heighway have plenty more to sell. Assuming they are sequential, perhaps people who have had one recently could confirm their numbers...

I've got no dog in this fight, but I think it's unfair for anyone to build up their expectations too high. Heighway could've gone under, or been phoenixed into another company - leaving early pre-orderers with no legal recourse. As it is they pretty much have to hope that Heighway remains profitable and that new money (profits) translates to their machines getting made and delivered at some point in the future.

(As an aside I note also that Heighway Pinball (Sales) Ltd was dissolved at the end of 2016. How many people who have pre-ordered years ago paid money into that entity?)

#20059 5 days ago
Quoted from Nethawk86:

Id like to see the shipping manifest or tracking in this case as it should be, if not already, pretty close to being on the water in order to confirm this statement made by cointaker of approx 2 weeks out from them.

I agree and was going to suggest the same. They should be able to provide this and was something I asked for and received which confirmed the first shipment was actually in the water. We were tracking the boat! I was told in the past ships were in the water and they weren't. Ask for this info...

#20060 5 days ago
Quoted from Nethawk86:

Yeah, that WOULD suck if it happens (doubtful). No way that would happen with this crowd though. I am usually the one whos calling out to "bust out the pitchforks" when it comes to cointaker, but in this case I dont think they'd stoop THAT low and bad where out of 45 LE's not 1 would go to preorders lol. I am sure all 45 of those (if there really is 45 LE's being shipped lol) are spoken for with MAYBE..MAYBE 1 or 2 being available for new orders from people who've cancelled.

I was told by Melissa at Cointaker last year I'd have their first LE stateside. Haven't heard from them in months, maybe longer.

#20061 5 days ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Old money is gone.
I know it's a bitter pill to swallow but your old money has gone on the previous owner's boat(s), or an extension to his house. The reality is that you need to hope that Heighway makes enough profit from selling these pins to new money to be able to honour your orders, which are basically write-offs for them.
The new owners even said that they came in facing an empty bank account.

The new owners are obligated to fill the old orders, since they took the company on as a going concern, however noble and ultimately unwise that may have been.

Newer orders being filled first is likely due to trying not to haemorrhage unacceptable losses / negative cash flow in the short term.

Whilst a bitter pill, this should be acceptable to old orders since; the money was all gone; they never saw a penny of it; no-one was going to get a machine if they hadn't stepped in; the machine you get will be a vast improvement on the piecemeal crap Andrew tried to peddle as 'production'.

#20062 5 days ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

The new owners are obligated to fill the old orders, since they took the company on as a going concern, however noble and ultimately unwise that may have been.
Newer orders being filled first is likely due to trying not to haemorrhage unacceptable losses / negative cash flow in the short term.
Whilst a bitter pill, this should be acceptable to old orders since; the money was all gone; they never saw a penny of it; no-one was going to get a machine if they hadn't stepped in; the machine you get will be a vast improvement on the piecemeal crap Andrew tried to peddle as 'production'.

This might change things, if there were several companies in the Heighway group and the investors bought the healthiest one of the group (e.g. if the bought company would have been a "mere" development company, which has now been expended into production) and people would have made their payments to this company instead:

Quoted from Durzel:

(As an aside I note also that Heighway Pinball (Sales) Ltd was dissolved at the end of 2016. How many people who have pre-ordered years ago paid money into that entity?)

#20063 5 days ago
Quoted from Nepi23:

This might change things, if there were several companies in the Heighway group and the investors bought the healthiest one of the group (e.g. if the bought company would have been a "mere" development company, which has now been expended into production) and people would have made their payments to this company instead:

The company was purportedly dissolved because it had been officially dormant for several years.

If it was reported dormant whilst money was ingested through it, then that would obviously complicate matters even further ... but I don't know that there is any evidence to support that speculation.

#20064 5 days ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

The new owners are obligated to fill the old orders, since they took the company on as a going concern, however noble and ultimately unwise that may have been.
Newer orders being filled first is likely due to trying not to haemorrhage unacceptable losses / negative cash flow in the short term.
Whilst a bitter pill, this should be acceptable to old orders since; the money was all gone; they never saw a penny of it; no-one was going to get a machine if they hadn't stepped in; the machine you get will be a vast improvement on the piecemeal crap Andrew tried to peddle as 'production'.

I don't disagree, however they're under no obligation as far as I'm aware to deliver them in any particular timeframe.

Fingers crossed this new money, 45 LEs etc will pave the way for people who have pre-ordered and paid in full years ago to get their pins.

#20065 5 days ago

Why isn't Heighway releasing this information via their Facebook page or some official announcement?
Or did I miss something?

#20066 5 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Why isn't Heighway releasing this information via their Facebook page or some official announcement?
Or did I miss something?

Although their communication with me has been good, no doubt because I haven't asked for a refund, communication with others and the general public has been horrible. I'm not sure how a company that plans on surviving under the best of conditions thinks they will make it with that policy. They most definitely aren't in the best of conditions and it wouldn't be that hard to have someone put out a facebook post once a week with some update pictures.

#20067 5 days ago
Quoted from PinBalt:

Sadly I expect that all of these LEs are new orders/money. I am a fully paid preorderer and I have not been contacted. Has anyone on here that fully paid been contacted about their LE preorder?

I have not and i've been in for 2.5 years. Never made my final payment, so they could still actually get more money out of me if they were willing to actually ship me a game.

So do we think these 45 LEs (assuming they exist) have been paid for yet?

Nice to hear someone is getting games, although it sucks that it's none of the preorders apparently.
Meanwhile, I sit here twiddling my thumbs waiting to send them my final payment even though it sickens me to send them another dime, but i feel I'll need to in order to hopefully salvage something out of this clusterf*ck.

As much as I've wanted this game (dream theme, blah blah blah), I'm strongly considering just trying to sell it unopened if i ever get one. No matter how good it is, I'm worried I'll never be able to shake that feeling of disgust when i see it in my home.

#20068 5 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Why isn't Heighway releasing this information via their Facebook page or some official announcement?
Or did I miss something?

I get the impression that they are working to right the ship and have found that the only way to do that is with actions.

they seem to be taking the right actions (slowly but surely)...

My guess is that until they have the ship above water, there is no reason to possibly feed the trolls with information to be twisted or used against them when things change. As you clearly know, there are some people hell bent on seeing them fail.

I prefer action over words and from what I am seeing, they are steadily doing the right things and more good news every month.

#20069 5 days ago

Jeez, it would be so hard to sit back being fully paid for 2 years and watch others get games. I can't imagine how frustrated I would be.

#20070 5 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

My guess is that until they have the ship above water, there is no reason to possibly feed the trolls with information to be twisted or used against them when things change. As you clearly know, there are some people hell bent on seeing them fail.
.

I resent the implication, Hilton. I was against Andrew Heighway and his unabashed cheerleader that jumped the line with favors. And my criticism of Andrew, along with the evidence I posted, proved me correct. Heighway 2.0 is a fresh start, of which I will legitimately question, but not cheer against.

-7
#20071 5 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I was against Andrew Heighway and his unabashed cheerleader that jumped the line with favors.

who are you referring to? and I hope you have proof of this...

Quoted from Mr68:

Heighway 2.0 is a fresh start, of which I will legitimately question, but not cheer against.

FYI, that is not how your current and continual question reads. Esp in the face of slowly more positives the past few months.

#20072 5 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

who are you referring to? and I hope you have proof of this...

I'll let the people in this thread decided that.

- Sorry folks. Hopefully we can move along now.

-1
#20073 5 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

I'll let the people in this thread decided that.
- Sorry folks. Hopefully we can move along now.

come on... you cant just make wild accusations and then not have any proof...

that would make you a hypocrite.

Let's see your proof of me jumping the line to get an Alien. I can end the suspense now... You dont have it.

#20074 5 days ago
Quoted from Pale_Purple:

Wow 45 LEs and not one for old money/people who have been in for years? Ouch

I never said that,

I was told these LE's are going to existing customers old orders new orders and a few to Nitro to Canada

#20075 5 days ago

I'm fully paid and had to deposit in since February of 2015 and I as told yesterday that there was no new news. I guess there could be 45 people that ordered before me and are still in but I'd be pretty surprised if that is the case.

#20076 5 days ago
Quoted from mnpinball:

I never said that,

I was told these LE's are going to existing customers old orders new orders and a few to Nitro to Canada

I'll say it, I received direct communication from Heighway admitting they were sending orders out for new money and admitting I was one of the first in line and paid for an original LE. Weird thing is I don't have an LE and am not in these ones going out. The usual apologizing and hopefully they'd be sending "private" orders soon is all I got. I'll at least give them credit for flat out admitting they were filling new/other orders for money, at the end of the day I just want my game and want to be given some benefit for having paid first. Here's to hoping this is a positive sign of some games(LEs) actually going out and more to follow soon.

#20077 5 days ago
Quoted from bemmett:

I'll say it, I received direct communication from Heighway admitting they were sending orders out for new money and admitting I was one of the first in line and paid for an original LE. Weird thing is I don't have an LE and am not in these ones going out. The usual apologizing and hopefully they'd be sending "private" orders soon is all I got. I'll at least give them credit for flat out admitting they were filling new/other orders for money, at the end of the day I just want my game and want to be given some benefit for having paid first. Here's to hoping this is a positive sign of some games(LEs) actually going out and more to follow soon.

None of it tastes good. The problem is that these guys purchased a shit burger and didn't realize that it was actually a double. They had set aside so much cash to fix the mess left from the previous management and blew though it quickly with an unplanned amount refunds. Now its just getting games out until there is enough capital to ship or refund paid in full or early pre-orders. Here is a case where being first in line gets you the last order out. The main dig I have is their poor communication, but I guess they don't have the answers people or looking for so they choose no answer. The only good news is that they are shipping games, so there is still hope that the early guys can get a game or refund some day, whereas a year ago, there was no hope at all.

#20078 5 days ago
Quoted from bemmett:

I'll say it, I received direct communication from Heighway admitting they were sending orders out for new money and admitting I was one of the first in line and paid for an original LE. Weird thing is I don't have an LE and am not in these ones going out. The usual apologizing and hopefully they'd be sending "private" orders soon is all I got. I'll at least give them credit for flat out admitting they were filling new/other orders for money, at the end of the day I just want my game and want to be given some benefit for having paid first. Here's to hoping this is a positive sign of some games(LEs) actually going out and more to follow soon.

That does suck, and I feel for you man.
I know if I was in your situation I wouldn't be happy.

I think the only insurance for the United States customers is if you dealt with Cointaker directly on your purchase then your money is 100% safe.

Understandably so I guess a guy has to look at it as a business point of view and new money is needed for the company to stay viable and to go on, as long as games are still getting shipped and delivered I have no doubt that you will get your game it's just a matter of when.

#20079 5 days ago

They aren't telling original paid owners anything becasue they know it's not what they want to hear? Pardon me but that's bullshit. Just TELL people the truth...that YOU NEED new money or this whole thing stops dead in its tracks. How is that so hard?

Hello (currently fully paid customer) I know you paid Andrew in full several years ago and we hope to get you your game as soon as it financially possible to do so. Right now we are shipping newly paid for games just to keep the doors open. As soon as we go cash positive will will be making and shipping the fully paid for games with the original number you were promised. We understand this sucks and we certainly wish is wasn't this way but it's either proceed in this manner or we close the doors and walk away. Because you have been caught up in this nightmare through no fault of your own we have decided that all early pre-orders will receive an exclusive (X?) that will be included with your game and only those pre-ordered games will get (X?).

How is that so hard?

#20080 5 days ago
Quoted from Astropin:

They aren't telling original paid owners anything becasue they know it's not what they want to hear? Pardon me but that's bullshit. Just TELL people the truth...that YOU NEED new money or this whole thing stops dead in its tracks. How is that so hard?
Hello (currently fully paid customer) I know you paid Andrew in full several years ago and we hope to get you your game as soon as it financially possible to do so. Right now we are shipping newly paid for games just to keep the doors open. As soon as we go cash positive will will be making and shipping the fully paid for games with the original number you were promised. We understand this sucks and we certainly wish is wasn't this way but it's either proceed in this manner or we close the doors and walk away. Because you have been caught up in this nightmare through no fault of your own we have decided that all early pre-orders will receive an exclusive (X?) that will be included with your game and only those pre-ordered games will get (X?).
How is that so hard?

I agree!

I think it is essentially what they said in a recent communication? isn't it?

-1
#20081 5 days ago
Quoted from Astropin:

we have decided that all early pre-orders will receive an exclusive (X?) that will be included with your game and only those pre-ordered games will get (X?).

perhaps HP can send them one of these.
does anybody know anything about this?

alienvault (resized).jpg

comingsoon06 (resized).jpg

#20082 5 days ago

Well “if” the 45 LE shipment is true, how about you fully prepaid guys show up at CT with proof of payment and take a game from the premesis?

#20083 5 days ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

Well “if” the 45 LE shipment is true, how about you fully prepaid guys show up at CT with proof of payment and take a game from the premesis?

Let us know how that works out for ya....

#20084 5 days ago
Quoted from spfxted:

Let us know how that works out for ya....

Yes considering none of the early pre order games went through CT as they weren't a distributor at that time.
They were all purchased direct from heighway.

#20085 5 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

come on... you cant just make wild accusations and then not have any proof... that would make you a hypocrite.

does this assessment of deeproot qualify?

Quoted from Whysnow:

so it is all a scam to TRY and get people already duped to give you more deposit money and pot in to another JPOP scam

#20086 5 days ago

I think you forgot something on that quote you intentionally altered...

"???"

Quoted from Whysnow:

so it is all a scam to TRY and get people already duped to give you more deposit money and pot in to another JPOP scam???

#20087 5 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I agree!
I think it is essentially what they said in a recent communication? isn't it?

I never received an email stating as such and I will bet my non-existing alien Pinball machine that I'm not the only one..

#20088 5 days ago
Quoted from bemmett:

I'll say it, I received direct communication from Heighway admitting they were sending orders out for new money and admitting I was one of the first in line and paid for an original LE. Weird thing is I don't have an LE and am not in these ones going out. The usual apologizing and hopefully they'd be sending "private" orders soon is all I got. I'll at least give them credit for flat out admitting they were filling new/other orders for money, at the end of the day I just want my game and want to be given some benefit for having paid first. Here's to hoping this is a positive sign of some games(LEs) actually going out and more to follow soon.

Yeah i'm in the same F ing boat too.

While its total BS it is what it is and nothing we can do about it except remember how we were treated down the road when the next pin comes out.

-4
#20089 5 days ago
Quoted from Dano:

I never received an email stating as such and I will bet my non-existing alien Pinball machine that I'm not the only one..

it was something on their FB or some blast. Somebody reposted it here (sorry, no effort to dig for it right now)

#20090 5 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

it was something on their FB or some blast. Somebody reposted it here (sorry, no effort to dig for it right now)

Even if it was on their fb page (it's not) You don't think that people that paid them thousands of dollars should maybe get a direct email when they decide to release a bunch of LE's?

#20091 5 days ago
Quoted from Pale_Purple:

I was told by Melissa at Cointaker last year I'd have their first LE stateside. Haven't heard from them in months, maybe longer.

Well that's funny.....i was told the exact same thing from the same person last year at the same time lol.....i called them out on here for it and was contacted and berated for saying it by them as well as others on here. I saved the phone conversation too of her saying I'll get first LE and to not tell anyone else or mention it on here. Again, this is why I'm usually the first to call for the pitchforks against cointaker as this has happened a lot from them.

#20092 5 days ago

Possession is 9/10 of the law right?

Quoted from spfxted:

Let us know how that works out for ya....

#20093 5 days ago

See, CT already promised the first LEs to these guys. So show up guys and take what’s yours.

#20094 5 days ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

Possession is 9/10 of the law right?

I'd say yeah that would work legally yes if you paid for it and it's yours. But then the issue of the LE number comes up. If it isn't your LE number that you paid for then technically it's not yours or the one you paid for on your invoice which is the contract you both agreed too, so then legally it's stealing. But if it's your LE number and they are holding it or selling it to someone else...then that's robbery and they're in legal trouble.

#20095 5 days ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

See, CT already promised the first LEs to these guys. So show up guys and take what’s yours.

I've been preordered since day 1, fully paid 2 years ago (before cointaker forced My refund and told me to pound sand due to me calling them out on here for promises they made that apparently were the same they made to multiple others). My order was transferred to cointaker when Heighway switched over so my money went to them, but I am still an original preorder.

#20096 5 days ago

I will personally make you a free LE number plate. Problem solved.

#20097 5 days ago

The first LEs should go to pre-paid buyers. The new buyers should wait in line 2 years and get pissed off like the rest of us.

#20098 5 days ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

The first LEs should go to pre-paid buyers. The new buyers should wait in line 2 years and get pissed off like the rest of us.

I've been saying this for a long while now which was my problem with many of the new posters and New guys just jumping on board getting games over us preorders and prepaid guys. We should have been offered to switch over to standards if there was any available before anyone new is offered them, but they needed the new cash so we got screwed.

#20099 5 days ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

it was something on their FB or some blast. Somebody reposted it here (sorry, no effort to dig for it right now)

Link or it didn't happen.

#20100 5 days ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Link or it didn't happen.

Their Facebook page is active, this was posted last week.

Brad

hw_facebook.png

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