(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 13 hours ago by Oneangrymo
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  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

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#19801 1 year ago
Quoted from BillySastard:

Dutch Pinball did it last year. Stupidity seems to run high when you're desperate for new money.

No doubt announcing Bop3.0 was a really a stupid idea, and that is being kind. I do give them credit for showing up there to face people and more importantly showing up at Expo after things really imploded, to take the heat and answer questions. Can't say that about Heighway, but assuming they do show up at TPF, folks will get that chance. But I agree announcing a new game now is probably not a smart move, especially if the folks who put their money down at the beginning are still without games (and if guys like Aurich have not been properly compensated). But for those folks who put money down early who might be looking for a silver lining, they are likely to get machines with fewer issues out of the box.

#19802 1 year ago

All participants should be taken care of before any new announcements. Anything less is a really bad move.

#19803 1 year ago

I heard form very good source that they are wanting to announce game 3 but are getting pressure not to until everybody gets whole,I think an announcement at Texas would be a very bad move

#19804 1 year ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Shooing all the people holding signs that say "this company has owed me $xxxx since xx/xx. Buyer beware" should be their focus at TPF. I can't imagine a public appearance going well for them.

honestly, that'd be more productive than bitching on here! I'd love to see a pic of that!

#19805 1 year ago

Is pinball the only business where ponzi schemes are legal?

#19806 1 year ago

Announcing a new game before fixing the current situation would be in poor taste. The only reason I can see is not having enough funds and the new title brings in New money continuing the cycle. I avoid any preordering of Pinball ever.

#19807 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Is pinball the only business where ponzi schemes are legal?

Cryptocurrencies (and I do own some...but not the "ponzi" ones).

#19808 1 year ago
Quoted from spoke:

But I agree announcing a new game now is probably not a smart move, especially if the folks who put their money down at the beginning are still without games (and if guys like Aurich have not been properly compensated).

Hell, people can't even get service for their FT!!

#19809 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

I avoid any preordering of Pinball ever.

Yah, I can say that I'm done with that BS. Let me know when they are physically in stock and then I will send payment.

13
#19810 1 year ago

New HP could probably have a good TPF with a seminar based on:

-Who "NEW HP" is
-What we've accomplished in the last x months
-Announcement that all pre-orders have been fulfilled, any remaining refunds are dealt with. This took us longer than anticipated, and took more money than anticipated, but we stand before you today with everyone made whole. Cue applause.
-Announcement of new dedicated service dept staff, support system. Spare parts for sale. Throw in a deal with Clay into this mix. We stand behind our products.
-"We are super proud of Alien, a magnificent pinball based on one of the ultimate licenses. In stock now with Cointaker/Nitro, etc"

And basically sell the shit out of Alien, for now. Find new outlets for sale.

#19811 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

New HP could probably have a good TPF with a seminar based on:
-Who "NEW HP" is
-What we've accomplished in the last x months
-This took us longer than anticipated, and took more money than anticipated.
-Announcement of new dedicated service dept staff, support system. Spare parts for sale. Throw in a deal with Clay into this mix. We stand behind our products.
-"We are super proud of Alien, a magnificent pinball based on one of the ultimate licenses. In stock now with Cointaker/Nitro, etc"
And basically sell the shit out of Alien, for now. Find new outlets for sale.

They would do well just to do this much.

Quoted from frolic:

-Announcement that all pre-orders have been fulfilled, any remaining refunds are dealt with, but we stand before you today with everyone made whole.

That's asking for a miracle (considering just how far behind they currently are).

#19812 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Is pinball the only business where ponzi schemes are legal?

Quoted from Astropin:

Cryptocurrencies (and I do own some...but not the "ponzi" ones).

For Example:
https://powhcoin.com/index.html

#19813 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

New HP could probably have a good TPF with a seminar based on:

-Who "NEW HP" is
-What we've accomplished in the last x months
-Announcement that all pre-orders have been fulfilled, any remaining refunds are dealt with. This took us longer than anticipated, and took more money than anticipated, but we stand before you today with everyone made whole. Cue applause.
-Announcement of new dedicated service dept staff, support system. Spare parts for sale. Throw in a deal with Clay into this mix. We stand behind our products.
-"We are super proud of Alien, a magnificent pinball based on one of the ultimate licenses. In stock now with Cointaker/Nitro, etc"

And basically sell the shit out of Alien, for now. Find new outlets for sale.

It's be nice if they did that...they are blowing their chance for long term confidence currently. If they announce a game they are out of their minds.

#19814 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

New HP could probably have a good TPF with a seminar based on:
-Who "NEW HP" is
-What we've accomplished in the last x months
-Announcement that all pre-orders have been fulfilled, any remaining refunds are dealt with. This took us longer than anticipated, and took more money than anticipated, but we stand before you today with everyone made whole. Cue applause.
-Announcement of new dedicated service dept staff, support system. Spare parts for sale. Throw in a deal with Clay into this mix. We stand behind our products.
-"We are super proud of Alien, a magnificent pinball based on one of the ultimate licenses. In stock now with Cointaker/Nitro, etc"
And basically sell the shit out of Alien, for now. Find new outlets for sale.

If this could only be so........

#19815 1 year ago
Quoted from rockrand:

I heard form very good source that they are wanting to announce game 3 but are getting pressure not to until everybody gets whole,I think an announcement at Texas would be a very bad move

I get that they feel like they need to plan a bit for the future, but imo it's stupid of them to spend ANY more time or money at all on another game until they get their current sh*t straightened out. Every moment they spend with their fingers in their ears, ignoring their current customers, is probably costing them who knows how much future business, for Alien or any new game.

Sadly, even if they did show another game, although it would royally piss me off, it wouldn't actually change anything. I'd still feel like I'd have to stay in because I'd be more likely to get a game than a refund over the next 6 months. I'm assuming they should be at least somewhat interested in me since I still "owe" them at least a couple more grand. At least that's what i tell myself to feel better.

#19816 1 year ago

Here was Hitler's advice to Skit-B when they announce game #2 when everyone was still waiting for Predator.

Not saying this is the same situation as that one, obviously, but Hitler's remarks about new titles being announced when we're still waiting on the last one still apply .

#19817 1 year ago

Got off the phone with Helmut today. Really nice guy. Looks like there's light at the end of the tunnel for getting my prototype game up to date. Thanks again, Helmut!

10
#19818 1 year ago
Quoted from Agent_Hero:

Got off the phone with Helmut today. Really nice guy. Looks like there's light at the end of the tunnel for getting my prototype game up to date. Thanks again, Helmut!

As I mentioned in PM - I really hope they do come through for you. However, just because you spoke to someone at Heighway and they promised action, does not mean it will happen. I received many, many promises over the past year since TPF - promises to send parts, and at one point they promised both me and Melissa at Cointaker they would send an entire replacement playfield. That didn't happen, and as of today, I have received nothing from Heighway except broken promises.

Thankfully, I purchased my game from Cointaker as opposed to Heighway directly, and I believe we may have come to an agreement to resolve my issues.

#19819 1 year ago
Quoted from SunKing:

As I mentioned in PM - I really hope they do come through for you. However, just because you spoke to someone at Heighway and they promised action, does not mean it will happen. I received many, many promises over the past year since TPF - promises to send parts, and at one point they promised both me and Melissa at Cointaker they would send an entire replacement playfield. That didn't happen, and as of today, I have received nothing from Heighway except broken promises.
Thankfully, I purchased my game from Cointaker as opposed to Heighway directly, and I believe we may have come to an agreement to resolve my issues.

Yes, as always, fingers crossed. I'm not expecting it tomorrow or by some deadline in my head. Nor will I be refreshing my email inbox every hour seeking more confirmation of what we discussed. It would be nice if the company operated on deadlines and formal communication that everyone here has requested, but what can you do? I'd rather have the current company than something that skipped town a year ago with no further recourse. Funny thing is, I woke up this morning to his email and I had not heard from anyone since before Christmas. I wasn't bugging them, but I knew they had my contact info and said they would be in touch when they had more details for resolving my situation. I went on with my life beyond pinball and today just happened to be when I was due for a status update.

#19820 1 year ago
Quoted from Agent_Hero:

Got off the phone with Helmut today. Really nice guy. Looks like there's light at the end of the tunnel for getting my prototype game up to date. Thanks again, Helmut!

I spoke to Helmut today as well.
I also have a lot of new parts coming for both the Alien prototypes I have here.

#19821 1 year ago

It seems the investors are out of funds and not sure what to do next to keep going. By most all accounts if you get a working game it is outstanding, different from the current crop, game of the year. If they could get these shipping, with proper QC, and honor the early LE supporters who have propped the company up for years and get them some games, this could be a hit for the company and do very well.
Of course it goes without saying announcing game three would be in poor taste and not go over well. Look at Dutch last year and others have said. Honesty I would be surprised they would even consider it but looking at HW it seems anyone who touches Alien does whatever they can willingly or not to run the game and the whole company into the ground.

#19822 1 year ago

I remember reading some guys impressions of an alien looking like it's older than a 30 year old pin. Not sure who/how/why but thought I would post pics of my pin since I've owned it since mid October, one of the first to be delivered, and played atleast everyday. I have mylar where needed and cliffys. Continues to look brand new and plays well alien tongue and all!

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#19823 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

I remember reading some guys impressions of an alien looking like it's older than a 30 year old pin. Not sure who/how/why but thought I would post pics of my pin since I've owned it since mid October, one of the first to be delivered, and played atleast everyday. I have mylar where needed and cliffys. Continues to look brand new and plays well alien tongue and all!

It's a great game...no doubt about it. Now if only the company could match the product.

#19824 1 year ago

Finally got around to updating the code to v1.1 and it was smooth and easy. Game continues to be a favorite and very happy with this purchase.

#19825 1 year ago

Heighway Pinball designer Dave Sanders is interviewed by the Podcaster “Kaneda”. It’s interesting. Not focused on slamming on Andrew , but errors noted, or current owners. Sounds like a lot of shortcuts were taken with Alien that they are trying to make right for manufacturing now and have been applied by design team to game 3 (Barry O game ).

#19826 1 year ago

I think Dave is (or can be) a great designer. I wish him much success.

#19827 1 year ago

It's a bit of a predicament. HW is obviously insolvent at the moment. They need to sell new games to cover their current liabilities (preorders). Regardless of how great the game is, there is a limited number of people who will buy it. To become a viable company, they have to produce new titles. Unfortunately, the time from game idea to full production is measured in years. So, they have to work on new titles now. While people may be pissed off at announcing the next title at TPF it doesn't change the reality that HW is spending time and $ on that next game. They really have no choice.

#19828 1 year ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

It's a bit of a predicament. HW is obviously insolvent at the moment. They need to sell new games to cover their current liabilities (preorders). Regardless of how great the game is, there is a limited number of people who will buy it. To become a viable company, they have to produce new titles. Unfortunately, the time from game idea to full production is measured in years. So, they have to work on new titles now. While people may be pissed off at announcing the next title at TPF it doesn't change the reality that HW is spending time and $ on that next game. They really have no choice.

If their best plan is to try and sell the sizzle from a new title, because they can't get the old title out, nor support current owners, then they might as well close up shop now.

I'm sure they would love as much "new money" as they can get, but unfortunately by not delivering to current customers, there won't be a lot of "new money" for them to collect. If a title like Alien sells less than a typical Spooky release, they've got big problems. And after the small ~100 production of Full Throttle, and current small production of Alien, they ARE operating at below Spooky levels, and there is no viable business there then.

I say this as Heighway Customer #1, who also wants to be an Alien kit buyer. I've got money on the table and want them to succeed and take my money.

#19829 1 year ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

It's a bit of a predicament. HW is obviously insolvent at the moment. They need to sell new games to cover their current liabilities (preorders). Regardless of how great the game is, there is a limited number of people who will buy it. To become a viable company, they have to produce new titles. Unfortunately, the time from game idea to full production is measured in years. So, they have to work on new titles now. While people may be pissed off at announcing the next title at TPF it doesn't change the reality that HW is spending time and $ on that next game. They really have no choice.

I think it's worse than that. The new money coming in is (in some cases at least) resulting in a game being delivered to that person, but people who paid much, much earlier, years ago in fact, are not being made whole at all and there doesn't appear to be any light at the end of the tunnel for them. The new money, whatever new money there is, seems to just about be keeping the ship afloat rather than building towards them clearing their order books pre and post-Andrew.

One wonders how big the pinball market is, or rather - how big is the part that isn't already acutely aware of HW's troubles.

You're right in that they seem to be in a position of needing to sell new games to be able to deliver older ones, and perhaps that's the logic with releasing a new game entirely. One wonders how much goodwill is left though. No one wants to have to imagine that their new money is going towards making good someone elses position, people understandably just want what they've paid for. Equally, if HW were to announce a new game how many people are going to be chomping at the bit - knowing what we know - to get in early when there is every chance that *your* game might not come to fruition until they release another game down the line.

This "delivery in arrears" mode of operating is very toxic to their reputation.

#19830 1 year ago

Regardless of what the next title is I just don't see anyone sending this company 1 cent in pre-order cash. Its such a shame because I really wanted an Alien pin just lost interest now. Hopefully it becomes an instock item with a proven track record in the coming years.

#19831 1 year ago
Quoted from PinBalt:

Heighway Pinball designer Dave Sanders is interviewed by the Podcaster “Kaneda”. It’s interesting. Not focused on slamming on Andrew , but errors noted, or current owners. Sounds like a lot of shortcuts were taken with Alien that they are trying to make right for manufacturing now and have been applied by design team to game 3 (Barry O game ).

Finished listening to the Kaneda podcast and that was an excellent interview.

#19832 1 year ago

It's my guess that Hieghway 2.0 is now in search of new investors and isn't that a bit of irony if true.

#19833 1 year ago

Anybody else wish they would just scrap the whole kit idea and just house the game in a proper cab. Imagine that artwork all over the sides and front of the cab.....how good would that look? Although it's an innovative idea, the look of the game overall suffers because of it IMO. Not to mention it would most certainly be easier for them to make. Seems they need all the help they can get in terms of production too.

#19834 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

It's my guess that Hieghway 2.0 is now in search of new investors and isn't that a bit of irony if true.

I bet they've been searching for a while now. Sadly I think they might have been the last pinball fans that don't mind kissing seven digits goodbye.

#19835 1 year ago
Quoted from Durzel:

This "delivery in arrears" mode of operating is very toxic to their reputation.

Rear deliveries are always toxic.

#19836 1 year ago
Quoted from PACMAN:

Rear deliveries are always toxic.

That's what she said.

#19837 1 year ago

When SkitB announced EOD I saw it as a positive sign, even though it meant they were diverting some resources away from Predator.

Announcing and showing progress on a second title told me they were looking to stay in business past Predator. Didn't really want to buy a machine from a one and done manufacturer, due to lack of future support.

I agree with a previous poster that a viable manufacturer has to be working on the next game while producing the current game due to the long development cycles.

No more pre-orders for me though. I think in the current climate, if they are relying on pre-orders for the next game to stay in business, they are done.

Maybe announcing the next game could be an attempt to attract investors.

#19838 1 year ago

You can only rob peter to pay paul for so long.

#19839 1 year ago

Speaking of kits, there likely would be some quick "new money" if they can get the kits thing figured out and offered.

#19840 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

It's my guess that Hieghway 2.0 is now in search of new investors and isn't that a bit of irony if true.

Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of HW is that they brought in 'new' investors who would have had a working knowledge of the situation. Heck, every Pinsider had enough knowledge to know they were insolvent. And we all would have done our due diligence to understand the depth of that insolvency. The 'new' owners were billed as experienced businessmen and yet it is clear that the new HW was under-capitalized. from the start I'm not sure how that happens unless they weren't that experienced or at least not experienced in acquisitions or perhaps they just invested money they could easily afford to lose. You may well be right that they are looking for new $. I suspect this time it will be much harder to get.

#19841 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

Speaking of kits, there likely would be some quick "new money" if they can get the kits thing figured out and offered.

While that was an attractive option before, to me it just adds a level of complexity that HW can't handle right now. KISS method seems appropriate.

#19842 1 year ago

Here's a question... Hypothetical. Let's say that Heighway closes shop in the next 3-6 months, and the only Alien pins that exist are the ones currently in the wild (plus 20 or so more). 1-2 years from now, what will and Alien be worth? Just a few $K since support and parts will be difficult to come by, or will the price sure since this is a great game, and oh so very rare?

Thoughts?

#19843 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Here's a question... Hypothetical. Let's say that Heighway closes shop in the next 3-6 months, and the only Alien pins that exist are the ones currently in the wild (plus 20 or so more). 1-2 years from now, what will and Alien be worth? Just a few $K since support and parts will be difficult to come by, or will the price sure since this is a great game, and oh so very rare?
Thoughts?

Asking for a friend!!!

#19844 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Here's a question... Hypothetical. Let's say that Heighway closes shop in the next 3-6 months, and the only Alien pins that exist are the ones currently in the wild (plus 20 or so more). 1-2 years from now, what will and Alien be worth? Just a few $K since support and parts will be difficult to come by, or will the price sure since this is a great game, and oh so very rare?
Thoughts?

Can assure you there are quite a few more out there than that.....Alien and HW are joined at the hip now....they will both go the same direction.....not many other games can claim the grail theme this thing has....but just a really interesting paperweight if there is no support for it, sadly....let's not write either off just yet...

#19845 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Here's a question... Hypothetical. Let's say that Heighway closes shop in the next 3-6 months, and the only Alien pins that exist are the ones currently in the wild (plus 20 or so more). 1-2 years from now, what will and Alien be worth? Just a few $K since support and parts will be difficult to come by, or will the price sure since this is a great game, and oh so very rare?
Thoughts?

Sadly, Lebowski provides almost a perfect answer to your question. Prices are much higher than retail because the theme is killer, the game works and is actually fun to play (i.e. it’s not Magic Girl), and supply is extremely limited. Lack of support won’t be much of a break on prices under those circumstances.

So if you’re hoping to scoop one up on the cheap in a year or two if Heighway goes under, I wouldn’t hold my breath.

#19846 1 year ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Sadly, Lebowski provides almost a perfect answer to your question. Prices are much higher than retail because the theme is killer, the game works and is actually fun to play (i.e. it’s not Magic Girl), and supply is extremely limited. Lack of support won’t be much of a break on prices under those circumstances.
So if you’re hoping to scoop one up on the cheap in a year or two if Heighway goes under, I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Sorry but I disagree. Heighway uses their own proprietary boards while Lebowski uses PROC. That's a significant difference between the two. Here is a quote from Rob Anthony in another thread, posted about an hour ago, talking about the same basic issue.

Quoted from Borygard:

Even years down the road, if companies go under, TNA and Houdini are both using PROC. PROC has proven to be a reliable and robust pinball controller system. Common, readily available, and proven boards. So, long term, keeping these games running should be no problem. I don't think the same can be said for Alien.

As far as simple rarity is concerned, that is an arbitrary and dwindling issue in this new age of boutique pinball.

#19847 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

Speaking of kits, there likely would be some quick "new money" if they can get the kits thing figured out and offered.

Except our kits been paid for, for 2 years. Was told by Andrew we’d be the first kit out with first batch of standards since it’s goin on location.

Full throttle still going strong. 2.5 million flips on each flipper last I checked. And that was after a computer crash halfway through its life on route.

#19848 1 year ago
Quoted from Mr68:

Sorry but I disagree. Heighway uses their own proprietary boards while Lebowski uses PROC. That's a significant difference between the two...

However should HP provide schematics, a connector chart and specs on many of their parts - that would go a long way towards leveling the field and might eliminate the disadvantages to using custom boards, allowing repairs. That might leave a few key board chips as the weak point in Heighway's proprietary architecture.

#19849 1 year ago
Quoted from frolic:

-"We are super proud of Alien, a magnificent pinball based on one of the ultimate licenses. In stock now with Cointaker/Nitro, etc"
And basically sell the shit out of Alien, for now. Find new outlets for sale.

Turning their back on the local market in the UK didn't help. More expensive here than RTW can buy Using a distributor here who has a very poor rep in the pinball scene There is little interest now in Alien on the UK scene. Which is frankly ridiculous but they can only blame themselves.

#19850 1 year ago

If they keep this up. (bad word of mouth, bad service, bad QC, bad communication, etc) They will make less than 100 machines and fold!
And. yes, they only have themselves to blame. They could have hit it out of the park with very little effort! Shame.

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