ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over

C'mon guys/gals, at least cut them the same amount of slack everyone cut JJP when they said the same thing about TH.

This^^^^^^^ seeing Andrew brag and show pics of actual manufacturing equipment ( as opposed to styrofoam, and bullshit cosmic dreams) tells me this company is business first. They are gearing to build " machines" not " machine". I understand " risk vs. reward" scenario......this one? Nothing is ever 100%, but if I was a betting man ( and I am on occasion) my "$1500 until machine is built " play is a pretty safe one.......mark

So Fox said you could reveal parts of game at UK show ?

I'm not a bookie. The point is simply that consumers shouldn't have to be making bets and taking significant risks that even they don't understand (or even realize for that matter). There should be as much transparency as possible and that is clearly not happening here. I agree, Andrew sounds like a solid guy and things are likely progressing and people are working very hard. I don't believe this is some sort of scam in ANY way at all. But it has become painfully obvious that starting a new pinball company and building pinball machines in general is a VERY difficult business to say the least (and even harder considering the number of startups throwing their hat in the ring). Getting one game out is hard enough, but making a profit and continuing production on future games (while still requiring pre-order dollars to do so) is MUCH harder and highly risky IMO. DP has a pretty impressive looking production studio from their videos too. Where are all the games? JPop seemed to have all the industry experience and connections needed and produced several impressive updates ... for a while. We all know how that ended.

I'm really not trying to start a war here, I only wanted to make the point that I think manufacturers taking pre-order dollars owe it to the pinball community to be as transparent as possible (so people can gauge the risks as they go) and that is not happening in this case. Enough said. I'll leave it alone. Carry on. Looking forward to a real update.

If you don't like what they're doing, don't pre-order. Pretty simple concept. And isn't DP's manufacturing mostly done by third parties?

So you're OK with folks who haven't pre-ordered and just attended the UK show getting to see features of the game when folks who pre-ordered don't?

They can't blame licensing restrictions on not being able to show the game but then show it to folks who attend a pinball show at their facility. That contradicts what they are saying and should be a little concerning.

Doesn't bother me in the slightest. They said they would have it available to view. If I really wanted to see it, I would have plopped my ass on a plane and went and checked it out. As a pre-orderer, Heighway did send me an invite to the event, I chose not to go. When it's in my line up, I'm not going to give a shit about whether or not I was one of the first to see the "reveal".

Not really, the people who saw it at the show were not allowed to take photographs. I think the issue is with images of the game getting out before they have been fully approved.

While I enjoy the updates, I'll hopefully enjoy the final product much more....I'm no bookie or pinball manufacturer, just an A/V integrator. Some of our Projects are quite complex, and continuing engineering is required to work out the bugs. If you want to slow my projects down? Just put an end user/Client that asks questions all day on site with my Techs. They've paid substantial deposits ( 5 figures mostly)...it is quickly learned that if we are allowed to just do what we were contracted to do, the project will go much quicker, w better results.
I think this community can be very helpful and harmful at the same time.....great ideas ( some of which have been incorporated), great talent (Aurich), etc. helps...........even uttering Jshit and Kevin in this thread will do nothing but harm...too many people hurt by completely incompetent idiots ( fully documented in other threads).....

No sugar coating anything here.....just let them make the freakin game....in this case, the extra time is actually giving us a better end product....that's all we want, right?

Wow guys. Some of you need to chill. It's just pinball. Some of you act as if lives are at stake and all information should be given to the people or else people will die!! Have faith in Heighway.

I see your point but that would be a double-edged sword. The whole artwork package matters a lot for a majority of customers, especially for Aliens. I guess they discussed that possibility internally, and voted against which I completely understand.

The "show the whitewood" approach seems the way to do for a boutique job: we have seen great examples of progress reports like Haunted Cruse. But Heighway aims to become a major manufacturer and is not playing at Home-brew level.

People at the show were allowed to see artwork, not sure what else since I wasn't there. And yes, with Fox's permission, provided there were no cameras.

See above. No contradiction. Fox was cool with showing unapproved concepts in person with no media. Nothing else has been approved for public reveals as of this moment that I'm aware of. It's a process, you have to let it play out.

This is, frankly, ridiculous. There is as much as possible, you just don't like what's possible. Can't be helped.

Show me a manufacturer who's been as good as Andrew with updating people here on Pinside. Maybe Spooky? But now that they have a licensed game you'll notice how quiet it's become on the Rob Zombie front. It's just the nature of the beast. When you're playing with other people's properties there are contracts and rules, and you follow them or you risk losing the license, and screwing yourself and everyone who ordered.

Bottom line: no one has to pre-order Alien. If you want in early or whatever then go for it, I'm not mad! But it's not being built with pre-order dollars, it's not only happening if X people pre-order.

Heighway Pinball has been nothing but transparent.

Simple - don't like preordering DON'T preorder.

Not hard to understand.

I thought that they were taking pre-orders on it....

Regardless, the company is pushing its product out the door so not sure what else people expect for updates.

They are, but only for the sake of priority and only part paid. 20% or so to start and the rest when yours hits the production line.

Just to clarify, Spooky has not taken one dime of anyone's money for pre-order on Zombie. The expectation is to reveal a working game (nearly complete game with final artwork?) FIRST and then let people decide by placing a deposit. No cloak and dagger with Spooky.

Transparency to me goes beyond showing actual progress (where ever possible) and includes maintaining an updated project schedule with a target goal for actual production. Dates may very well slip but at least people can gauge how well a project is being managed and whether risks are mounting. Again, this should be the "nature of the beast" IMO for any manufacture that requires pre-order dollars to operate. Just an opinion. I'm certainly not attacking this game itself and I also understand everyone's enthusiasm for a title they're very excited about and I do think that's great.

Somebody needs to work through their predator grief with a therapist...

I think Heighway agrees with PinChilli's views, the circumstances around the Alien announcement are not something they want to repeat. Even with Full Throttle, they didn't take deposits until they had a finished game to show everyone.

What's done is done at this point, and I don't believe game 3 will follow the same early announcement route.

It is ironic that the reason for the Alien announcement was because Lebowksi and Hobbit were sucking up all the air at Expo '14, and those 2 games are still waiting for light of day.

Pinchili: you have made your point about pre-orders and transparency. You are welcome to stay in the thread and continue discussing Alien, but move on off pre-orders and transparency. Thank you.

PINSIDE MODERATOR:
[pin-side mod-uh-rey-ter]
Noun
1. Someone with a God-like complex who uses their authority to pick and choose what they think people should talk about even when no defined rules are broken and the conversation is kept cordial and on topic.
2. An arrogant person who presides over a panel discussion with complete personal bias while labeling others as being the biased ones.
3. A person who silences you the moment you publicly question them while simultaneously never missing the chance to publicly shame you in return.

Why not try a PM next time? I already said above I was dropping the subject but Aurich decided he wanted to keep the conversation going I guess.

image.jpg

Wow Alien 65 new messages! and then: "Blablablabla"....nothing...

Yea... I saw it and thought new playfield pics or something must've posted. Looks more like a case of inexplicable Summer cabin fever!

It is almost laughable highway getting critism for their inactivity into the communication department.

But it aint funny, it is just sad.

Highway is doing great in my opinion. On all departments.

Trying to put on my neutral observer hat here, though I know I can't be totally impartial:

People are inpatient. People are nervous. People are curious. Lots of natural reactions. Alien was probably announced too early in some ways, but I think Andrew did it for the right reasons at the time. Things have changed since then, doubt you'll see him do it again as his company grows.

I think it's fair to say that Heighway is a new company, and is allowed the growing pains and mis-steps, but also should get the slack that new companies get too. You have to announce early sometimes, you have to hype a little. It's part of building up a following and a brand when you're an upstart in a market with an established base. When Alien was announced Jpop still seemed real to some people. Predator hadn't collapsed horribly. Hobbit and TBL were generating lots of talk. Heighway had to try and get into the mix.

Pinball building is just an incredible dance. So many moving parts. I know people want to see how the sausage is made, but often times it's just a bad idea to show them. Forget even the license stuff, things change over time. Ideas get scrapped when they don't work right. New ones replace them.

Image if JJP had shown renders of a big Smaug that rose up from the playfield, as was apparently originally planned. People would be mad to see the final version, having been expecting something else.

I think there's also the risk of fatigue. We want to see things! Now! But we also can get bored before they're ready. It feels like old news before it's even shipped in a way.

Still, even with all that said, Andrew is telling people things all the time, being very approachable, and basically pulling off a trick that pretty much no other company short of Spooky has been able to, which is be here on Pinside, not create drama, and try and keep people in the loop.

We should appreciate that it's harder than you might think, and there's a reason why not everyone does it.

I think it's the newest Stern game announcement that's got our juices going. No one likes to run a race in slow motion, even if it's only our own perspective.

Dont know if this video has already been posted. But here it is (again)

Heighway Pinball, Seminar at ReplayFX

Alien info starts at 32:49

People had faith in Skit-B and Jpop and look what happened.

I was one of the lucky ones that got to see the 'in progress' offering at the UK pinball party.It looked stunning. Made this fledgling company look all grown up

It must be so frustrating for HP to keep things under wraps when a single pic of that standard edition cab would send ripples round the pinball world and really give credibility to their stake of becoming a mainstream manufacturer. But that's just the nature of the licensing beast and they will have their day for sure, also the thought that it will then be taken to another level when Aurich reveals his limited addition version is a sweet thought indeed

I hate it when someone posts I know something you don't but in this case Im privileged to say I kind of do, with what I have seen so far the Alien licence is in really good hands Im happy to cut Heighway some slack on due dates and therefore allow Alien pinball to evolve and fulfil its potential. Btw I'm in for a LE but would be more than happy with the SE artwork that was revealed so no one needs to stress if not comfortable with pre ordering.

In the meantime Full Throttle looks like being a rather nice little filler!

What sort of licensing deal do you have where you can show it to the public in a physical room, but you can't show a photo to the wider public of the internet?

Ridiculous comparison.

Reading the thread it seems pretty obvious. Fox hasn't given approval for info to be shared publically yet. They did agree though to let Heighway show work in progress to a select group of people as long as there were no cameras yet. A few people in the room does not equal the internet. Stuff like this happens all the time in all industries. Nothing unusual.

This is the type of comment that just blows my mind........there is no way in hell these names should even be uttered in the same sentence w Heighway and Andrew.....total bullshit.....

I do think it was advantageous to show folks at the show some progress, especially if you can get some new buyers.

One contradiction is that Andrew says on 8/19 "Realistically, we are targeting UK and USA events in October as launch events." You say yesterday: "I'll be at Expo. Dunno what if anything we're showing from Alien" I'd just recommend you guys figure out whats going to be revealed at Expo if anything and communicate this on a united front.

I certainly don't speak for anyone except myself, but I interpreted Aurich's statement as simply " it's not my department".....completely get where you're coming from, as I believe we all want the same thing. Just don't want this thread to "Alienate" ( sorry, couldn't help it) people from sharing what they can, without thrashing them for what they can't, or don't know......

That's my bad, I shouldn't have said anything. It's not my role. This is Andrew's company, I'm just helping out with a project, need to not overstep my boundaries.

I will be at Expo. I don't know what the plans are as far as showing things, it's not mine to plan. That's all I meant, but I didn't help things the way I phrased it, and I'll be more careful.

I get everyone's frustrations, so I just try and be honest with people as best I can, it's my way of doing things. Look back through my posts here and I consistently say "if you're going to take pre-order money you owe your customers some answers, and if you can't do that then don't take the money". I still feel that way. I get that!

But for me what Andrew is doing is the kind of thing I want to see. I don't mean to pick on any other company, or set up some kind of us vs them scenario, but if everyone else who took money before delivering (and I mean code too, if you know what I mean) was as transparent as Andrew I'd be satisfied.

You can't know all the behind the scenes shit, you just can't. Some things aren't for sharing publicly, even if you wish you could see it all. That's business, and there are sound reasons supporting that. What I want is just a little communication.

Here's what I want to see, from any pinball company that takes pre-orders or announces things:

"We're still here, we're working on it, and as we reach certain milestones we'll share them. We can't promise when, because we don't want to make promises we can't keep. Things aren't always under our control when it comes to timing, that's just the real world. But if things are quiet for a while and we're not ready to show you something we'll at least tell you that we're not ready and still working on it, so you know we haven't forgotten the people who are waiting and supporting us."

That's my bar. I think I've been consistent over the years in communicating that message. And Heighway meets it. It's why I agreed to work with Andrew in the first place, he gets it.

If you ship a game, and the code's not done, then okay, I want the same messaging. Are you still working on it? If you can't say when it's done okay, just let us know you're not leaving us hanging.

The guy has had some of the best communication with his customers,released a game that is now being delivered with Aliens as his second release which is an amazing theme and still within a year of being announced people are already bitching about its release date. If at this time next year I don't have my Aliens LE then I will start to panic but for now WTF?

Nah, it's cool for now, just some residual animosity leftover from recent half assed attempts from other Boutiques. Small hobby seems gunshy right now on preorders, not a great time for it.

Knowing some people involved in 'starters', I can certainly agree on that one.

I agree there, and though most people want a timeline somehow, when you explain it's still being worked on and there're some delays, a lot of the customers will accept that. When delays get endless or people think reasons given are not true, that's mostly where people get frustrated.

Though I applaud Heighway for their business, their first game and their plans with the kits and Alien coming up, I disagree: both Full Throttle and Alien were announced for 'release' at an unrealistic date (beginning of 2013 HFT and April 2015 Alien). I think that's partly because of Andrews enthusiasm and optimism, and partly for some things that can't be foreseen, but it's not like Heighway hasn't made promisses they couldn't keep (unless you consider a given release date not as a promise).

In the end though, most important is that Heighway, and Dutch Pinball, and Silver Castle, and JJP, and Spooky, and Multimorphic, and...etc, get to produce nice games! Whether that's delayed, communicated weekly/monthly or followed after a period of silence, I'm not sure if there's a 'right' here, if in the end some nice games get produced.
Heighway has started their first now with Full Throttle, and I hope there'll be a lot more to follow.

I'm gonna let Heighway worry about the tough stuff like how's it gonna get built and when's it gonna ship. In the mean time I'll worry about the stuff I CAN control like how am I gonna pay for it and where's it gonna go once it arrives. I might also allow myself to worry about my other games (and spouse) feeling neglected once Alien arrives. Has anyone stopped and visualized just where yours is gonna go? Makes me smile when I think it can go here, or maybe here, or maybe I'll move these over, or perhaps slid this one down...

And remind me, does it ship with PDI or Invisiglass? If not, where we gonna find it?

Aurich,
Quick question on the LE art work. Is the entire cab going to be used as a canvas or just the illuminated side panels? Wouldn't it be cool if the LE artwork encased the entire side of the cab & the illuminated panels brought it to life/effects to the art. On know FTLE that wasn't the case, but what a cool idea, & I hope you & Heighway consider it.

Thanks for sharing that. I had seen this, but it gets the excitement level back to where it needs to be! This pin has a great opportunity to shake things up in the pinball community. Look @ that layout & listen to Andrew describe the features with the lighting effects! I can't wait for this pin to be revealed & the reaction its going to get from the pinball community.

The Heighway pop bumpers are quite good, even on Full Throttle. There's a mode where they turn into orange and have a circling effect, and it is a real eye grabber because we've never seen anything like it before.

I am perfectly comfortable with the level of communication on both of Heighway's products thus far as a buyer of both. I do get the nervousness as well as I was on the bad end of Jcrap and the Preditors. I have emailed many questions and was given acceptable answers to all in a very timely manner. At the end of the day I believe everyone involved in buying either of the first two machines built by Heighway will be satisfied with their purchases. just my opinion...

Has there been any word on pricing for the new playfield kit?

I believe 60% of the price of a complete standard edition version

60% is the preliminary price.

Oh man.....I've got a spot already picked out so you can see both sides of the game!!!! Believe glass is standard wide-body, so should be easy to get from Joey......

I can't dwell on the neglect factor though.....my Wife says I do that too much already......

Illuminated side panels are the Heighway style. I don't see that changing any time soon, but I'm not the person to answer that.