(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

4 years ago



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#16451 1 year ago
Quoted from Nethawk86:

I called cointaker and asked the question. Was told for whatever reason they had issues blah blah blah and that they were shipping out computers and new playfields so that took up time and they couldn't get my LE out,

I had the exact same experience with CoinTaker when waiting for my BoP 2.0 kit. Excuses after excuses about delays that would take two more weeks to resolve. Two weeks would pass, I'd hear nothing, send emails, hear nothing, call and leave a message, hear nothing, then get a random call or email that it would be another two weeks. Went on for 4 months. Eventually I did get my kit and I was happy about it, but I did not like the process. Seems so much easier to set your customer's expectation accurately than to string them along. That just pisses them off.

#16452 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

is it really crazy?
Seems pretty fair to have a nominal deposit that commits you for a game, esp from a company that has delivered on multiple games at this point.

I have no interest in giving a company money with NO ability to get it back especially some of these new start ups. In fact I can't think of any situation when the consumer doesn't even receive the product but is expected to commit a NON refundable amount. Crazy. That's just me.

#16453 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

I have no interest in giving a company money with NO ability to get it back especially some of these new start ups. In fact I can't think of any situation when the consumer doesn't even receive the product but is expected to commit a NON refundable amount. Crazy. That's just me.

spooky is not really a new startup at this point.

150 AMH
300 RZ
??? Dominoes
100 Jetsons
Alice cooper in development
Over 175 TnA sold
Ben Heck next game in development

They have a prove track record.

I can completely understand not feeling comfortable putting down any non-refundable deposit, just pointing out that they are proven at this point.

#16454 1 year ago

I understand and agree that Spooky might not be a brand new startup. I'm in the camp of not giving anyone a non refundable amount in the event I don't even receive a product. Nothing against Spooky....

#16455 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

spooky is not really a new startup at this point.

Exactly. And exactly that is why they should NOT ask for a non-refundable deposit. They should be able to sell the game anyway and they should have build up some kind of buffer by now.

Instead they themselves keep behaving like a start-up hence the same risk for the customer.

#16456 1 year ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

Exactly. And exactly that is why they should NOT ask for a non-refundable deposit. They should be able to sell the game anyway and they should have build up some kind of buffer by now.
Instead they themselves keep behaving like a start-up hence the same risk for the customer.

we can agree to disagree. I think it is completely fair for a small pinball company to ask for firm commitments from their customer base in order to allow them confidence on how many parts to order and games to build. Spooky is not taking a deposit in order to get start-up funds. They take a deposit to ensure the customer is committed to the purchase prior to them producing the game.

Without doing this, they could have 150 people say they want the next game and then have 50 bail due to the game not being flippable for a quick profit (remember, there are lots of speculators in the hobby). That does not work for a small company that is manufacturing technical commercial machines to customer specifications (remember that these are built to order with customer selected options). I especially liek the Spooky model of WAIT till you know you for sure want the game, then only pay 1k deposit to show your commitment, order all the options as you wish, and only pay the remainder when your game is ready. Given the unlimited release of TnA it means no rush to order and everyone should have ample time to decide they want one before committing to buy with the 1k deposit.

Worth mention that I am pretty sure the deposit is secure with them as they are not going to evaporate or leave. If a tornado takes out the shop then they have insurance.

#16457 1 year ago

I think a non refundable deposit makes sense for these small shops to gauge genuine interest.

#16458 1 year ago

I believe Spooky is in a defensible position here because they dropped the LE and there is no forced scarcity. You can wait it out. The game will either be a success and they'll keep making them as demand warrants, or it won't be, and you can always buy a huo later.

Literally no one is forcing you to do anything. Unless you want to be the first one to receive one, and that privilege will take a $1000 deposit.

#16459 1 year ago
Quoted from Nethawk86:

I got an email saying "what if I promised you your LE at your door within 30 days! Seriously we just got told they are shipping our pins now". I told them that sounds good and after again sending a couple emails with no response and excuse after excuse of why, I finally got them on the line again to vaguely answer some questions. I sent them the remaining due and was paid in full with the promise of my game arriving at my door end of July. July came and went, finally called cointaker and got immediate response. Was told they had an issue with the computers and they were delayed while they are upgraded. I was annoyed o

I had a similar experience w/Cointaker. I spoke with Melissa and she talked me back from the edge. She said the same "we can get it to you within 2 weeks" That would've been 1st week of July. I said "OK let's do it!" of course July comes & goes and I got a refund (!) mid-July. Remember-I initially called her asking for a refund but decided to stay in. The issuance of the refund was a mistake. However- I AM SO GLAD Cointaker made this mistake since I want absolutely nothing more to do with this pin. The lies, the fake timelines, the price increase and the downright deceit associated with this pin is a HUGE turn-off.
To all of you who are staying in-best of luck to you. I truly believe you'll get your pin eventually. Ths has turned into a personal thing for me as I simply do not want to support a company that employs tactics such as they have. It's a shit way of doing business (Heighway) and and even shittier way of cleaning up your predecessor's mess (New Heighway, or whatever the hell they're calling themselves).
FWIW, I am not faulting Cointaker in any of this. I believe they're simply parroting what they're being told from New Heighway.

#16460 1 year ago
Quoted from CubeSnake:

FWIW, I am not faulting Cointaker in any of this. I believe they're simply parroting what they're being told from New Heighway.

But that apparently was your (and others) mistake. The new owners have never said games would be shipping in July. They have consistently said that production would start again in August with games shipping in Sept....AND, that LE's would not start shipping until Oct.

This information has been in emails from the new owners (and relayed here) and on their Facebook page (from what I've heard...I haven't read their Facebook page).

#16461 1 year ago
Quoted from CubeSnake:

I had a similar experience w/Cointaker. I spoke with Melissa and she talked me back from the edge. She said the same "we can get it to you within 2 weeks" That would've been 1st week of July. I said "OK let's do it!" of course July comes & goes and I got a refund (!) mid-July. Remember-I initially called her asking for a refund but decided to stay in. The issuance of the refund was a mistake. However- I AM SO GLAD Cointaker made this mistake since I want absolutely nothing more to do with this pin. The lies, the fake timelines, the price increase and the downright deceit associated with this pin is a HUGE turn-off.
To all of you who are staying in-best of luck to you. I truly believe you'll get your pin eventually. Ths has turned into a personal thing for me as I simply do not want to support a company that employs tactics such as they have. It's a shit way of doing business (Heighway) and and even shittier way of cleaning up your predecessor's mess (New Heighway, or whatever the hell they're calling themselves).
FWIW, I am not faulting Cointaker in any of this. I believe they're simply parroting what they're being told from New Heighway.

Were you waiting on standard or LE?

#16462 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

Were you waiting on standard or LE?

Shouldn't matter... no games where shipping in July....or August really. Hard to ship games when no one is on the factory floor and they didn't have parts they needed yet...just like they told everyone.

#16463 1 year ago

I always thought the first games would be around late Sept, hopefully sooner.

#16464 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

Shouldn't matter... no games where shipping in July....or August really. Hard to ship games when no one is on the factory floor and they didn't have parts they needed yet...just like they told everyone.

Well CT just told me they're waiting on an update from their broker but latest is pickup this Sunday. Hopefully it doesn't change. Would be a nice early birthday present. This is for a standard btw.

#16465 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

shipping in July....or August

Yeah, the "new" guys never ever said July...they said something like "production will begin" in August or whatever. I wouldn't go all postal on the new guys "yet"...the next couple months should be the turning point as to whether or not they have their shit together. If CT said July or a couple weeks in the June/July area they were mistaken.

#16466 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

If a tornado takes out the shop then they have insurance.

Says who ? I would believe most companies have this but in reality I never heard of any insurance with all the pinball companies that have/had trouble. Back on topic of Alien: the problem with the deposit is that we have to rely on promises made by the manufacturer. Who would ever put money on Alien or TBL when the manufacturer would have been honest with their timeline ?

My point is that anything can happen to the buyer as well as the seller. Even if Spooky/Heighway/DP/fill in whatever would be insured, the deposit of Spooky would be non-refundable and as a customer you have no choice but to wait and hope.

Also with a refundable deposit it all depends if the manufacturer has the funds to pay back the refund so that is also of little worth. Without the deposit there would be no problem whatsoever and when somebody wants the game they will buy it anyway.

#16467 1 year ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

Exactly. And exactly that is why they should NOT ask for a non-refundable deposit. They should be able to sell the game anyway and they should have build up some kind of buffer by now.
Instead they themselves keep behaving like a start-up hence the same risk for the customer.

They take deposits because thats what people demand. People are clamoring to get on lists so they can be sure to get games. Spooky has said time and time again with a non limited game like TNA that you should wait if you aren't sure - they will keep making games when the demand is there. As for the limited games? They initially took refundable deposits until that became a problem for them. Enough people backed out of Rob Zombie somewhere in the production process as to seriously be a pain in the ass - they still sold them out, but with a ton of additional hassle. If you want a game enough to have them make and hold one for you, you need to be serious about it, hence the current policy of non-refundable deposits. Charlie has consistently said: wait if you aren't sure - even on limited games. Thats not "start up behavior", its where they have landed after successfully selling hundred of pins. Pinside drama queens trying to round every sensible business thing up to "EVIL COMPANY TACTICS" is sooooo tiresome. I was in on ALIEN from the beginning, "Heighway Rebirth" refunded me 100% of me LE paid in full money without issue, and I can now patiently await seeing ALIEN come to fruition and make a purchase decision on my own schedule. I agree, throwing money at every new pin announcement is folly (something I had to learn) - but Spooky is not in that camp at all.

#16468 1 year ago

I said in my first post about this subject that I like Spooky. This was not an attack on them, but more an opinion on the whole pre-order pre-pay culture. There would be much less drama without that. Let them build up some stock and then sell them. Without the pre-ordering Spooky would not have gotten in trouble, so win-win situation for everyone.

#16469 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

Well CT just told me they're waiting on an update from their broker but latest is pickup this Sunday.

This is promising and fits within the boundaries of "New Heighways" timeline.

The fact that some think that they can jump the line for an LE and get a one off is just annoying and elitist.

Wait till the machines are in. If you don't want to put down money then wait, but if you get pissed cause your special one off dealio didn't work that's your problem.

--Patiently waiting
Jeff

#16470 1 year ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

This is promising and fits within the boundaries of "New Heighways" timeline.
The fact that some think that they can jump the line for an LE and get a one off is just annoying and elitist.
Wait till the machines are in. If you don't want to put down money then wait, but if you get pissed cause your special one off dealio didn't work that's your problem.
--Patiently waiting
Jeff

I paid in full. And had a deposit down for years. They told me to keep from canceling that I would have my game within 30 days idiot. Very quick to throw out elitist and make me sound like an ass, and clearly you don't know my situation. But I was just in the same boat as you, waiting. But cointaker and such made a promise that they didn't keep. And it sounds like they did it to others as well. So I am just holding them to their word. No "jumping the line" you pompous ass. I've been in the line a long time as well. Not my fault someone came to me and others and said "I'll get you your machine in 30 days" and not you. That's them, not me.

#16471 1 year ago
Quoted from Nethawk86:

I paid in full. And had a deposit down for years. They told me to keep from canceling that I would have my game within 30 days idiot. Very quick to throw out elitist and make me sound like an ass, and clearly you don't know my situation. But I was just in the same boat as you, waiting. But cointaker and such made a promise that they didn't keep. And it sounds like they did it to others as well. So I am just holding them to their word. No "jumping the line" you pompous ass. I've been in the line a long time as well. Not my fault someone came to me and others and said "I'll get you your machine in 30 days" and not you. That's them, not me.

Bitching skills far exceed reading comprehension skills for many around here, so don't take it too personal.

I understood your original comment and was going to respond to that other message in kind, but figured I'd leave that for you to point out.

#16472 1 year ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

I'm out for now, got my refund with in an hour from nitro and I've really just lost interest in this all together, its a dream theme and I do want the game but I'm gonna wait till its in stock and proven to be a good working pin with proper support.

Good for you Hazoff. I know you were in on this for a long time. You came to the exact same conclusion I did months ago.

Dream theme, lost interest, got refund, wait until in stock & company proven legit. Truer words were never spoken.

Why stay in & continue to take the risk when everything is taken into account? Because locked in at lower price? To get your game first? At this point it's incomprehensible to me. Just buy one when it's ready to ship tomorrow. Simple as that. If it turns out to be too expensive, then buy something else. Not worth all this bullshit.

#16473 1 year ago
Quoted from ronaldvg:

I said in my first post about this subject that I like Spooky. This was not an attack on them, but more an opinion on the whole pre-order pre-pay culture. There would be much less drama without that. Let them build up some stock and then sell them. Without the pre-ordering Spooky would not have gotten in trouble, so win-win situation for everyone.

Spooky does not produce at the volume that Stern does....Spooky sells direct, Stern does not. Spooky as they currently manufacture, do not have large inventories on hand of previous machines. People want to buy Spooky Pinball machines. It seems like you are trying to press a one size fits all model across a variety of pinball manufacturers. Each business is individual and needs to tailor their own methods. At least to me, if Spooky were to build up inventory - that would mean a significant amount of time between sales pushes between manufacturing and design pushes. The other option that would fit into your proposal would be to only put up for sale whats been manufactured. That means they would be updating their website randomly to add 15 machines here or there. Potential customers would be fighting to log in at each announcement and feel burned when they lost out. Spooky is doing what works for them and refining it as they go - currently this means, if you want to buy a Spooky title, you commit with a non-refundable deposit. Seems to work out fine for them. If they keep growing and are manufacturing multiple titles at once, then they will surely change again. Heighway, on the other hand, has now pivoted to one distributor per region as the only way to buy machines. With ALIEN - you can put down a refundable (or at least transferable - unsure how Cointaker works) deposit through their distro. This was a pivot from unsuccessfully trying to collect advanced money without having meet-able production goals. People put down pre-order money on Stern games all the time through a variety of distributors - especially on limited editions, where you usually don't have the luxury of waiting. Jersey Jack does both (direct with pre-order options and through specific distributors.) Many distributors will not carry machines that are offered directly for sale through manufactures. There are lots of different ways to buy and sell machines and consumers are free to opt in or not depending on their own wants and needs.

#16475 1 year ago

redacted
--Jeff

#16476 1 year ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

Why stay in & continue to take the risk when everything is taken into account? Because locked in at lower price? To get your game first? At this point it's incomprehensible to me.

dream theme. Locked in LE number . Lower price.

I believe games are coming and im just going to wait it out. No stress, no harm , no foul

--Jeff

#16477 1 year ago

Has anyone that had their money refunded plunged it back into this game given the recent news? Just curious!

#16478 1 year ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

it said that where in the original post?

shouldnt it have been clear in your post. When you leave things out it only lets people infer.
Thanks for the name calling. Love you too
--Jeff

Quoted from Nethawk86:

I sent them the remaining due and was paid in full with the promise of my game arriving at my door end of July. July came and went, finally called cointaker and got immediate response. W

Apparently you need to better your reading comprehension and learn not to jump to conclusions before understanding what you read. As for name calling, HA, calling me "annoying" and "elitist" I guess doesnt make your cut of name calling lol. It was all there. Anyway, still no call from cointaker at all lol, even though I was told I would get a call last night. Just insane dealing with them. I am like so many in this thread....tied between a refund....tied between downgrading to a standard since no point to a LE anymore and fighting heighway over trying to get me on the new price......and tied between just staying as is just because of the current price. At some point it hits the wall....and all these things that come out of these mouths are just crap and hold no meaning anymore and will never actually happen. Nice to have interest free loans while I am paying interest on my end lol.

#16479 1 year ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

dream theme. Locked in LE number . Lower price.
I believe games are coming and im just going to wait it out. No stress, no harm , no foul
--Jeff

This is me....very early adopter...gor $1500.00 in, which I would have long blown by now....

#16480 1 year ago

My favorite part of this thread when people get impatient and complain that they don't have their pin.

I bet someone could run a psychological profile on us pinball owners... well off enough/successful to be able to afford a $5K-$10K toy, unique and comfortable in one's own interests to enjoy some random off kilter hobby, and compulsive enough to collect many. Surely that has to associate with other interesting personality traits

#16481 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Surely that has to associate with other interesting personality traits

What do you mean?

ted nyc.jpg

#16482 1 year ago

Run away and don't look back!

Quoted from spfxted:

What do you mean?

#16483 1 year ago

Paid in full waiting.. Day two.

Attach73185_20170905_172420 (resized).png

#16484 1 year ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Paid in full waiting.. Day two.

From where CT? If so what is your expected date? Still 9/10 here but no update since she said she was checking with broker today....

#16485 1 year ago

I'm told every US buyer is going through cointaker.

#16486 1 year ago

From what Morgan said in his response to my update request email I don't think anyone is seeing any games on the 10th, I hope so but part of the reason I got my second refund back now is it just sounded like more bullshit.

#16487 1 year ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

I'm told every US buyer is going through cointaker.

So are you hearing the same? 9/10?

#16488 1 year ago

V1.0 changes, v0.99 wont be released
Screenshot_2017-09-06-17-55-31-1.png

#16489 1 year ago

I haven't been told a specific date. With ship transport and customs, it's probably a guess till the games show up at cointaker.

#16490 1 year ago
Quoted from libtech:

V1.0 changes, v0.99 wont be released

Cool, a lot of my complaints look to be fixed in this update. Still several more to go....and I hope they listen to us and add LE only modes or games for LE owners. Doesn't look to be that difficult to create and implement as they say their "developers are so fast" lol.

#16491 1 year ago
Quoted from Nethawk86:

Cool, a lot of my complaints look to be fixed in this update. Still several more to go....and I hope they listen to us and add LE only modes or games for LE owners. Doesn't look to be that difficult to create and implement as they say their "developers are so fast" lol.

Thought you were out?

#16492 1 year ago
Quoted from Toads:

Thought you were out?

Never said I was out. I literally stated just above you " I am like so many in this thread....tied between a refund....tied between downgrading to a standard since no point to a LE anymore and fighting heighway over trying to get me on the new price......and tied between just staying as is just because of the current price". Does anybody read before making comments like this? I guess it is true and bitching skills outweigh reading comprehension on here for some lol.

-1
#16493 1 year ago

heighway has such a classic on their hands that they would be very wise to nail this with refined code ala JJ (and unlike stern who just let GB die). I'm calling it now - it's the next IJTPA.

#16494 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

heighway has such a classic on their hands that they would be very wise to nail this with refined code ala JJ (and unlike stern who just let GB die). I'm calling it now - it's the next IJTPA.

I am starting to agree lol.

#16495 1 year ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

I'm told every US buyer is going through cointaker.

Melissa told me to stay the course..having mine ship from Heighway. Suspect my details will be sorted when the LE's finally ship. Not sweating it, and would love to run through CT.....great company!!!

#16496 1 year ago

I'm still waiting on my LE, paid in full. Was told from Highway that they were building/shipping SE's through the end of August into early September but no timeline other than LE's go into production shortly after. I check my inbox everyday waiting for them to ask what color trim I want...really that's when I'll know their ramping or building LE's. That said...crickets, which likely means pre production give or take 3 weeks (ship 30-40 plus games at a time), ship time 1 week to the US, 1 week from CT = a month and a week away from receiving my LE. Looks like delivery will be in October for now...but I see that possibility slowly fading away.

#16497 1 year ago
Quoted from rlslick:

I'm still waiting on my LE, paid in full. Was told from Highway that they were building/shipping SE's through the end of August into early September but no timeline other than LE's go into production shortly after. I check my inbox everyday waiting for them to ask what color trim I want...really that's when I'll know their ramping or building LE's. That said...crickets, which likely means pre production give or take 3 weeks (ship 30-40 plus games at a time), ship time 1 week to the US, 1 week from CT = a month and a week away from receiving my LE. Looks like delivery will be in October for now...but I see that possibility slowly fading away.

I was told I'd be getting the email, and my LE would easily be in my home by Christmas....good enough for me....

#16498 1 year ago
Quoted from spfxted:

What do you mean?

Whoa, wait a minute. The person in that picture cannot possibly be Ted. He's not wearing a Hawaiian shirt. The guy is the pic is an imposter!

#16499 1 year ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

Whoa, wait a minute. The person in that picture cannot possibly be Ted. He's not wearing a Hawaiian shirt. The guy is the pic is an imposter!

Don't say that, your just egging him on

#16500 1 year ago
Quoted from Half_Life:

Whoa, wait a minute. The person in that picture cannot possibly be Ted. He's not wearing a Hawaiian shirt. The guy is the pic is an imposter!

lol...the Hawaiian part is on the back!

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