(Topic ID: 106728)

ALIEN PINBALL - Game Over, Man, Game Over


By HeighwayPinball

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 24,687 posts
  • 986 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by Durzel
  • Topic is favorited by 261 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

  • Alien Heighway Pinball, 2017

Topic Gallery

There have been 2,844 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

0FA2E8F6-6E66-4461-98A2-D8504806460B (resized).jpeg
20190621_225940.jpg
image (resized).jpg
DSCN6780 (resized).JPG
IMG_3414 (resized).JPG
IMG_3415 (resized).JPG
IMG_0215 (resized).JPG
7558E0DA-70D4-4AEA-8699-7E8E506CE582 (resized).jpeg
7B5B82F0-6FB6-4B76-BE21-4A56537885BD (resized).jpeg
8714E3FD-D526-496C-B18A-E775776E9AF1 (resized).jpeg
Alien Rulesheet.pdf (PDF preview)
02205183-C289-4CFF-A7A3-097DA7882E83 (resized).png
F404241E-FFAA-4989-BB1A-73FAF80696F1 (resized).jpeg
20180621_003705 (resized).jpg
13 (resized).JPG
bf871ec7-c9e4-4525-9f84-c8fc1562d683 (resized).jpg

Topic index (key posts)

52 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 24687 posts in this topic. You are on page 327 of 494.
#16301 1 year ago
Quoted from Dee-Bow:

Read his post again. He said it's NOT there

Yeah maybe he needs to read up on this years long debacle. Quality better than Stern...not as good as JJP...shit I can't tell what's happening anymore. People still don't have heads. People still have PF LCDs that do not work and have to be modified to power on etc.

#16302 1 year ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

Played 1 game on this last night, got to the 3rd ball and the game puked. Playfield entirely went out, artifacts left on the screen in the head and then it started to go into attract mode on the screen in the head. Tried to reset it and stayed the same. Oh well.

Check all the USB connections underneath the field. Sounds like something came loose.

#16303 1 year ago

The game has potential to be a fukkin hit if the new company pulls their shit together and addresses some serious issues.. but they're self-proclaimed business guru's so I hope they figure it out. 10g's is serious coin from a drywalligists standpoint.. but I'll make the call to Nitro as soon as I'm convinced they got it all sorted out... glad u gave it an honest review Delt31. I played it a while back and can't wait to slap it around again soon!

#16304 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

Alien impressions.....
I found myself in Buffalo for work and decided to stop by the place shown on the recent Buffalo pinball stream to try out Alien. The place is called Pocketeer billiards and it has a ton of really good games. Met the owner of the machines who was really nice and helpful.
I was VERY impressed with Alien. The stream really grabbed my attention but to see it in person and someone that was critical of it's looks, I can say it's a very nice looking machine. I own a RR WOZ which I consider to be one of the nicest looking pins and I would compare this to that but in a very dark and twisted way - essentially the horror version. It's widebody but def needs it all, the screens are super clear and although I didn't think the screen on the PF was necessary, I'll take it. The cabinet was also much nicer in person.
The music and movie integration is amazing. I love how there are two different music themes for either movie (which you pick when you play a new game) - the effects are just amazing and the sound quality is insane. Prob the best integration I've seen period - topping Indy (although that is a close one).
The shot variety is very impressive too. That shot which flips up and then comes down back to the flipper is very cool. So many flippers, so many shots.
On the negative side - I thought the quality was good although not as solid as JJP. Better than stern though. I wish the pops were a little more intense. The game is DARK. I'll compare it again to WOZ in that you wish there was more GI although one could argue the light show makes up for it and I will say the color changing RGB really does a fantastic job accenting the modes.
Here is my bigger concern though - after playing almost 20 games, the machine froze on me and I couldn't do anything. In fact before I played the game, the ball wouldn't come out to start and the owner had to open the game up and replace a fuse. He mentioned that support is few and far between as well and he seemed very frustrated. For any Alien owners out there - are you experiencing the same?
With all that being said, I'm so impressed with this game that i still might buy it now. It's prob one of the best I've played (although I should mention that I love the Alien series so I really value the integration and I love mode games). On a side note, my time with Dialed-in confirmed that it has one of the best layouts in recent history however I just don't like the theme at all. The cell, the call outs, the music, it just takes away from what is a really good shooter. Removing this game from the list has really put the spotlight on Alien which is why I might be joining the inevitable club soon.

This is one hell of a review... Basically everything I am looking for in a machine at the moment (except the customer service issues during the restructure).

Makes me even more excited to receive my machine!

#16305 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Yeah maybe he needs to read up on this years long debacle. Quality better than Stern...not as good as JJP...shit I can't tell what's happening anymore. People still don't have heads. People still have PF LCDs that do not work and have to be modified to power on etc.

No that is my concern however apparently it's getting better. If this game plays as expected, it's top 3 for me right now. Played the game 20 times and had two lockups. Concerning but it's SO GOOD when it works. : (

#16306 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

Alien impressions.....
I found myself in Buffalo for work and decided to stop by the place shown on the recent Buffalo pinball stream to try out Alien. The place is called Pocketeer billiards and it has a ton of really good games. Met the owner of the machines who was really nice and helpful.
I was VERY impressed with Alien. The stream really grabbed my attention but to see it in person and someone that was critical of it's looks, I can say it's a very nice looking machine. I own a RR WOZ which I consider to be one of the nicest looking pins and I would compare this to that but in a very dark and twisted way - essentially the horror version. It's widebody but def needs it all, the screens are super clear and although I didn't think the screen on the PF was necessary, I'll take it. The cabinet was also much nicer in person.
The music and movie integration is amazing. I love how there are two different music themes for either movie (which you pick when you play a new game) - the effects are just amazing and the sound quality is insane. Prob the best integration I've seen period - topping Indy (although that is a close one).
The shot variety is very impressive too. That shot which flips up and then comes down back to the flipper is very cool. So many flippers, so many shots.
On the negative side - I thought the quality was good although not as solid as JJP. Better than stern though. I wish the pops were a little more intense. The game is DARK. I'll compare it again to WOZ in that you wish there was more GI although one could argue the light show makes up for it and I will say the color changing RGB really does a fantastic job accenting the modes.
Here is my bigger concern though - after playing almost 20 games, the machine froze on me and I couldn't do anything. In fact before I played the game, the ball wouldn't come out to start and the owner had to open the game up and replace a fuse. He mentioned that support is few and far between as well and he seemed very frustrated. For any Alien owners out there - are you experiencing the same?
With all that being said, I'm so impressed with this game that i still might buy it now. It's prob one of the best I've played (although I should mention that I love the Alien series so I really value the integration and I love mode games). On a side note, my time with Dialed-in confirmed that it has one of the best layouts in recent history however I just don't like the theme at all. The cell, the call outs, the music, it just takes away from what is a really good shooter. Removing this game from the list has really put the spotlight on Alien which is why I might be joining the inevitable club soon.

EDIT - when I say quality is not as good as JJP but better than stern, I'm talking about the feel of the game (weight, etc) and this is assuming the game actually works as expected. It feels more solid than stern however we all know they are having issues with mechanics working which is something I also comment on.

#16307 1 year ago
Quoted from delt31:

the feel of the mechanics and this is assuming the game actual works as expected. It feels more solid than stern

The construction of Full Throttle is the best of any I've had. The cabinet is built like a tank--really really solid--it's like a double thick cabinet where the legs recess in a bit which is a cool look. The playfield length rails are heavy duty, designed with pulling it completely in mind and sliding it across a floor for swaps. All other mechs seem pretty typical. Nothing feels cheap at all. The plunger was the only thing that I have had an issue with.
All that said, I'm only a sample of 1 and only time will tell what they put out with Alien but as far as the "base" of their design, it seems incredibly solid.

#16308 1 year ago

If cointaker is getting a C-container...rummered to be 40 plus machines.
1- if i was Highway id be pretty proud of this and show some pictures.
2- Highway would make this a sales pitch and show some pictures, proof of this.
3- Show a picture of assembly line, been awhile.
If im a betting man, and i am, there is nothing in a container yet, or left for states.
For those that dont know. Awful lot of paperwork with a container, yes..ive done a few. You can even track the ship as it moves on high seas.
Pics or it hasn't happened!

#16309 1 year ago

Wickerman2, have you kept up on this enough to know if they are still planning to release Alien playfield kits?

#16310 1 year ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

If cointaker is getting a C-container...rummered to be 40 plus machines.
1- if i was Highway id be pretty proud of this and show some pictures.
2- Highway would make this a sales pitch and show some pictures, proof of this.
3- Show a picture of assembly line, been awhile.
If im a betting man, and i am, there is nothing in a container yet, or left for states.
For those that dont know. Awful lot of paperwork with a container, yes..ive done a few. You can even track the ship as it moves on high seas.
Pics or it hasn't happened!

Melissa at Cointaker told me yesterday that Heighway received replacement ramps last week for the batch of the machines going out. After they install they were due to leave this week and would take about 20 days until they reached them. About 11 days on the water and the rest on land.

#16311 1 year ago

Nick and I reviewed Alien in our latest talk show/podcast episode. Video is here, review starts at 1:02:21 if you want to skip ahead:

#16312 1 year ago
Quoted from KevInBuffalo:

Nick and I reviewed Alien in our latest talk show/podcast episode. Video is here, review starts at 1:02:21 if you want to skip ahead:
» YouTube video

Watched it last night. Nick seamed butt hurt about his Alien experience.

#16313 1 year ago

Love your show by the way. Listen often.

#16314 1 year ago

They really need to fix this buffalo machine. For the record , there are three different people reporting the reset / shut down issues with the same game recently on this thread.

As more games ship , i am hoping to see this as an isolated incident or something to learn from.

#16315 1 year ago
Quoted from Russell:

have you kept up on this enough to know if they are still planning to release Alien playfield kits?

A couple Euro-distributors actually have pricing up for kits(price is much higher than expected) BUT, I've contacted Cointaker and they have no info on kit pricing as of yet so I'm a bit suspect of those dealers. So, who knows, I'm assuming they'll get the kits going but I think they are still sorting out the LE mess so kits aren't a priority.

Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

1- if i was Highway id be pretty proud of this and show some pictures.
2- Highway would make this a sales pitch and show some pictures, proof of this.
3- Show a picture of assembly line, been awhile.

They aren't posting anything here. They posted an update with pics 9 days ago on their facebook page. Seems like pinside is working itself in to a frenzy again based on no new info...this is an ebb and flow in this thread and will continue until enough people get games. If I had money down I would have the same level of concern I had a month ago...no more, no less.

#16316 1 year ago
Quoted from KevInBuffalo:

Nick and I reviewed Alien in our latest talk show/podcast episode. Video is here, review starts at 1:02:21 if you want to skip ahead:
» YouTube video

I watched the video. I don't care about the shots as much as Nick. I played it a few months ago at a Pinball Expo and thought it was really cool. My question is, is the machine really as broken as you guys say? I don't mind if there are software bugs that freeze the game, etc. Bugs will be worked out with updates. But you guys made it seem like the physical pinball machine itself was broken. That major parts will break pretty quickly. That the hardware of the machine itself is half-baked.

Should I cancel my pre order? I've got it through Coin Taker as well, and I spent extra for the LE. Melissa told me they'd be collecting the balance in early September. Should I back out while I can? I saw Nick call it an expensive night light. No one wants to spend $10k on a night light. Again, I'm okay with bugs, but if the machine itself is basically shipping in a near defective state, that's a problem.

#16317 1 year ago
Quoted from legionsoup:

But you guys made it seem like the physical pinball machine itself was broken. That major parts will break pretty quickly. That the hardware of the machine itself is half-baked.

Hardware/ major parts are EXTREMELY robust.

We have had prototype #2 out on route since the day it arrived. ONLY issues this far have been the light/switch boards (seems to have been fixed from what we have seen/heard in most recent 'production' games) and just recently out small screen over the lock scoop when to all white (I have not troubleshot it yet but expect it is a bad connection internally)

Aside from those things, all the major mechs have been fine and solid with relatively high and consistent route play for the past 4-5 months. It sounds to me like the newest produciton games have been made even more robust. Keep in mind that Full Throttle also held up very when mechanically on route.

#16318 1 year ago
Quoted from ezeltmann:

They really need to fix this buffalo machine. For the record , there are three different people reporting the reset / shut down issues with the same game recently on this thread.
As more games ship , i am hoping to see this as an isolated incident or something to learn from.

Add me to the list,mine freezes and shuts down quite a lot.
It is a prototype,I expect the issues and hope they have them figured out.
Mine also blew a fuse recently,during game play.
I am told all prototypes will get updated boards,production stuff.
Game is still fun as is,but will be a lot better.

#16319 1 year ago
Quoted from legionsoup:

I watched the video. I don't care about the shots as much as Nick. I played it a few months ago at a Pinball Expo and thought it was really cool. My question is, is the machine really as broken as you guys say? I don't mind if there are software bugs that freeze the game, etc. Bugs will be worked out with updates. But you guys made it seem like the physical pinball machine itself was broken. That major parts will break pretty quickly. That the hardware of the machine itself is half-baked.
Should I cancel my pre order? I've got it through Coin Taker as well, and I spent extra for the LE. Melissa told me they'd be collecting the balance in early September. Should I back out while I can? I saw Nick call it an expensive night light. No one wants to spend $10k on a night light. Again, I'm okay with bugs, but if the machine itself is basically shipping in a near defective state, that's a problem.

It has some serious issues. I can't say for certain which are hardware related and which are software but I know that as much fun as I had with it, I no longer put my money in it because it plays so poorly now.

Steve Bowden gave his impressions on Fun with Bonus a few days ago after playing it in Buffalo too: http://funwithbonus.com/gameplay-livestream-alien/

#16320 1 year ago
Quoted from KevInBuffalo:

It has some serious issues. I can't say for certain which are hardware related and which are software but I know that as much fun as I had with it, I no longer put my money in it because it plays so poorly now.
Steve Bowden gave his impressions on Fun with Bonus a few days ago after playing it in Buffalo too: http://funwithbonus.com/gameplay-livestream-alien/

Nice to see you guys don't sugar coat it Kev. And thanks for the review!

#16321 1 year ago

My machine sounds more like Hilton's than Buffalo's. A few stuck lights from time to time, but no game breaking errors or faults.

#16322 1 year ago

Isn't it pretty typical for a prototype on location to have problems? Like from any manufacturer?

#16323 1 year ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

Isn't it pretty typical for a prototype on location to have problems? Like from any manufacturer?

Yes, but it's also typical for people to freak about about anything that isn't "just so" from newer pinball companies.

#16324 1 year ago

Good point. It just seems like this is pretty typical, the prototypes have some problems they've acknowledged and when the production games start coming they will send prototype owners the updated parts. And that it's taking a few months longer for the new owners to get production up and running. There is a lot of speculation going on because the new owners aren't posting on Pinside, but it seems like everything is moving the right direction since they took over from Andrew and they are busy at work. The American Pinball guys are probably a little smarter in chiming in to threads once in a while, updating on progress and not letting themselves get nailed down to a timeline, it keeps the speculation and worry at bay. But pinball companies have never been that good at the social networking/online marketing aspect of the business, it's a new area of business expertise even the big guys don't understand very well.

#16325 1 year ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

Isn't it pretty typical for a prototype on location to have problems? Like from any manufacturer?

From my understanding, it wasn't a prototype that they reviewed. It was one of the machines that has only been on location for a few weeks and it's already busted/unplayable, so it's one of the current machines from the new Heighway management.

They said the owner of the establishment was frustrated because it didn't work, and people who travelled to play it were frustrated because they couldn't get a good look at it in action.

#16326 1 year ago

Our game does (while rare) sometimes not get a ball kicked out to shooter lane on startup (gets stuck at top of trough and lane).

If a casual person is playing, they dont see this and then the game eventually gets confused and requires a reboot and dislodge of the stuck ball to get back in the corrcet spot. Pretty sure this is due to being a prototype and on old code till replacement stuff arrives.

I wuld like it to actually hold credits. As of now when you reboot the game, the credits disappear. That is a PITA for route.

#16327 1 year ago
Quoted from legionsoup:

It was one of the machines that has only been on location for a few weeks and it's already busted/unplayable, so it's one of the current machines from the new Heighway management.

what is specifically busted on it?

#16328 1 year ago
Quoted from kklank:

I'm just speaking for myself here but if Heighway said, I can ship your game to you tomorrow with no fiber optics and we'll give you first in line for the next machine we make plus a $350 credit on the next machine, I would take it in a heartbeat.

Ship my game tomorrow without the optics and I'll take it in a heart beat. Considering I've been paid in full from day 1, I'm thankful games are shipping. I can understand some wanting a credit, refund...your hard earned cash you should get what you paid for and refunded for what in no longer included. In my lifetime, I have to say I've lost considerable amounts of money, careless to say "such as pre ordering" with much regret. I feel like I just got lucky this time around with the investors saving this company. I'm not going to push my luck, owning and playing my LE soon will be a true miracle.

#16329 1 year ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

But pinball companies have never been that good at the social networking/online marketing aspect of the business, it's a new area of business expertise even the big guys don't understand very well.

...and also when they post here it...turns...into...a...shitshow...every...single...time...

#16330 1 year ago

With the delay and ownership change, the games are going to have to overdeliver, as they are under a microscope now. WOZ had TONS of big time problems and delays initially....eventually turned out to be an exceptional, landmark pin.

The more of these they get out, the better life will be......period. Bugs will get sorted....

#16331 1 year ago

As a distributer i have also prepaid my games long time ago waiting for 4 pcs of LE paid 1.5 years ago in full to support the company startup.

In total i have got 4 pcs of full throttle after waiting and pre paid in full for 2 years.

They have now new homes and happy owners in Sweden.

I can see that the new owner doing this in another way then ever before , its boraing to wait i like to play Aline tonight .

But i got full trust in this new managment for the company .

To the new team of Heighway pinball "Good work guys you fight from 6 feet under and up"

Show us all with pride that you can build this games and deliver them to all of us that have been waiting for the moment to unbox a Alien.

I sent you a new order with 7 more standard games today to show my trust to you (and to fill the new orders we have).I wait last in line for this new games.

#16332 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

what is specifically busted on it?

In the video review that was posted, the guys said the Alien head worked for the first 5 games and then never worked again. They also said most of the parts in the machine felt cheap. Aside from the Alien head, the "busted" stuff felt vague.

#16333 1 year ago
Quoted from legionsoup:

They also said most of the parts in the machine felt cheap.

That's vague and far reaching...did they take the glass off and have a moment with it?

#16334 1 year ago
Quoted from legionsoup:

In the video review that was posted, the guys said the Alien head worked for the first 5 games and then never worked again. They also said most of the parts in the machine felt cheap. Aside from the Alien head, the "busted" stuff felt vague.

sounds like a simple switch or actuator arm adjustment. The Xeno head is mechanically pretty straight forward. Sounds like these guys dont have access to the inside of the game? Did they get the info to the operator to let them know? Likely a simple fix. Just listening to a little bit and the one guys says he shut off the game and walked away which is pretty lame.

i am not sure what they mean by felt 'cheap'. the components are all typical pinball parts, the mechs are actually much heavier gauge that what you typically see and good weld from what I see. "Busted" without specifics is odd. I have said it before, but in general the Heighway games are all a higher quality of mechs for the game specifics stuff and the rest is all comparable off the shelf components. The one guy has a pretty heavy biased opinion from the start. Seems like the whole schtick of their show is to have this back and forth in opinion, but I dont think it gives much value to his opinion. the guy complains about hitting the scoop but it is the easiest shot in the game. He says it is a clunk fest but reality is that he is not a very good player/ cant adjust to play a game with different geometry.

#16335 1 year ago

When was the most recent communique from the new owners? Just curious.....

#16336 1 year ago
Quoted from royneblom:

As a distributer i have also prepaid my games long time ago waiting for 4 pcs of LE paid 1.5 years ago in full to support the company startup.
In total i have got 4 pcs of full throttle after waiting and pre paid in full for 2 years.
They have now new homes and happy owners in Sweden.
I can see that the new owner doing this in another way then ever before , its boraing to wait i like to play Aline tonight .
But i got full trust in this new managment for the company .
To the new team of Heighway pinball "Good work guys you fight from 6 feet under and up"
Show us all with pride that you can build this games and deliver them to all of us that have been waiting for the moment to unbox a Alien.
I sent you a new order with 7 more standard games today to show my trust to you (and to fill the new orders we have).I wait last in line for this new games.

Wow....very impressive!!!

#16337 1 year ago
Quoted from CubeSnake:

When was the most recent communique from the new owners? Just curious.....

I think it was Morgan mentioning he was going to away from the office for a few days.

#16338 1 year ago
Quoted from MK6PIN:

I included him and Toads (only 2 I'm aware that haven't received refunds) in my latest e-mail. Enough already. Time for some clear dialogue. I want this pin more than anyone here, I can assure you....but something has gotta give....

Make that three.

I've been waiting for my refund for three months too!

#16339 1 year ago
Quoted from MikeHogue:

Make that three.
I've been waiting for my refund for three months too!

That sucks Mike,sorry to hear that.

#16340 1 year ago

So I was told that the new machines arriving to Cointaker will have an updated CPU compared to older ones. Expectation is that this will resolve issues too. FYI in the event others have heard the same....

#16341 1 year ago

this is not acceptable that anyone does not have a refund resolved at this point!

#16342 1 year ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

this is not acceptable that anyone does not have a refund resolved at this point!

yeah it's really sad to read this. They've sent a lot out, but they are undermining all the good will they bought with that money by leaving a handful of people hanging.

#16343 1 year ago
Quoted from MikeHogue:

Make that three.
I've been waiting for my refund for three months too!

Ugh....unacceptable. Glad # is low, but has to be a "0" at this point. Anxious to hear Morgan's response when he returns.

#16344 1 year ago

Are any of the outstanding refunds for Standards? If so, what price did you get in at? I would CONSIDER buying a spot for an SE at the pre-order price, but I would need to confirm a few things with the buyer and Heighway first. PM me if interested.

#16345 1 year ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

Are any of the outstanding refunds for Standards? If so, what price did you get in at? I would CONSIDER buying a spot for an SE at the pre-order price, but I would need to confirm a few things with the buyer and Heighway first. PM me if interested.

Wouldn't someone with a Standard on preorder just be better off getting the refund directly from Heighway, as opposed to going through logistics of transferring?

#16346 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Wouldn't someone with a Standard on preorder just be better off getting the refund directly from Heighway, as opposed to going through logistics of transferring?

But then Cheeks doesn't get the big discount. I would do this with him if I was trying to bail.

#16347 1 year ago
Quoted from Astropin:

But then Cheeks doesn't get the big discount. I would do this with him if I was trying to bail.

I have done business with Cheeks via Pinside (long distance) and have been very pleased, for what it's worth. In case anyone is considering.

#16348 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Wouldn't someone with a Standard on preorder just be better off getting the refund directly from Heighway, as opposed to going through logistics of transferring?

If Heighway was dishing out the refunds without issue, then yes you're right. However, people are having issues getting refunds, and I'm offering a potential option. What's wrong with that? I'm sure Heighway would approve.

Quoted from drypaint:

I have done business with Cheeks via Pinside (long distance) and have been very pleased, for what it's worth. In case anyone is considering.

THANKS for the vouch!

#16349 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Wouldn't someone with a Standard on preorder just be better off getting the refund directly from Heighway, as opposed to going through logistics of transferring?

What's the difference if the same amount is refunded to the original pre-order customer? You don't like helping out fellow humans?

#16350 1 year ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Wouldn't someone with a Standard on preorder just be better off getting the refund directly from Heighway, as opposed to going through logistics of transferring?

The "logistics" shouldn't be any more difficult than asking Melissa at CT to ship the game to him instead.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 40.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
From: $ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
There are 24687 posts in this topic. You are on page 327 of 494.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside